"This will be our reply to violence: to make music more intensely, more beautifully, more devotedly than ever before."

Leonard Bernstein

from Keith's Facebook page

"My heartfelt condolences go out to the family and friends of Thomas Ayad. Words cannot express the horror of what happened in Paris. I am horrified by the tragic events that took place in Paris last Friday night" - Keith


sorry if it has already been posted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-16 21:53 by djgab.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-16 22:05 by Stoneage.

Quote
Turner68

Quote
Stoneage
(Somewhat a digression from this: I see now that almost every big rock/pop act have canceled their concerts in Paris and even Europe at large.)

they need to get metal detectors/security at the door/explosive-sniffing dogs.

Agree - but I think the problem is more the back door then the front door (airports,arenas..)

How much freedom, liberty and privacy are we willing to sacrifice for a bit of safety? This very real industry of security and protection that grows daily from the seeds of military and law enforcement and threatens to become it's own monster with it's attention and actions directed at the very people it was designed to protect scares me more than the potential threat of terror actually.


.

Quote
bv
Please do not use this thread to discuss domestic politics or religion or other difficult matters that will start another war right here on IORR. The same goes for gun control. Some like to own a gun, or may be twenty, others hate guns. I use a knife to cut my bread, others use a knife to kill.

If there are too many of those kind of political posts here then I have to start deleting, closing, acting like the real old Mr Censorship myself. I trust people are able to post with respect here.

On the personal side, I feel deep sadness for the pain our French friends are suffering right now. Like a young AUF girl said shortly after the terror attack in Norway July 22, 2011 attacks: "If one man can show so much hate, think how much love we could show, standing together."

I posted this in another thread, related to this "Paris" thread:

If there is an offending post then it takes anyone one second to use the "Report this message" link under the actual post. I never delete or moderate based on my own opinion. It always take an external "Report this message" for me to look into a post. Also, FYI, don't report many many posts, just one, two or three, then you will see if I react, or if I ignore it.

So far there has been may be two to four i.e. 2-4 reports from the Paris thread, while there are now close to four hundred posts in it. People are well behaved and reasonable toterate. Some say bomb and kill everyone, well that is the nature of instant affection. Some say blame it all on Obama or Mother Teresa or Ghandi or Bush. Again it is forgiven because it is clearly out of line, to out of line to be wasted time on. But I have deleted 2-4 because they were reported. Also see my comment in that thread.

Bjornulf

Ask the family's who lost love ones some children in the Boston marathon bombing if they would sacrifice a little freedom,or privacy so these Terrorists would have been stopped before the bombs went off?

Some ask questions like:

Why are we allowed to discuss the Paris terror here while other terror posts are deleted on IORR?

Why do people decorate their Facebook images in French flag colours?

Why is some terror more painful than other terror?

This is my reply:

There is no reply. Life is unfair. There have been terror attacks in Kenya, Tanzania, China, Turkey, Tunisia, Egypt, Norway, USA, Spain, UK and so on. The world is full of terror. Also, in the big picture, terror should be ignored. Like they say in Paris: Live your normal life. Don't let them win. Go to concerts. Enjoy street life. Don't be afraid.

It is still 1,000 times more dangerous to drive your car to work, to cross the street, and to live your life in relation to thousand other life threatening matters. Your heart might stop. My bike might tilt over in a split second and I might break my neck. It happened twice last year but I am still here i.e. I tilded byt my neck did not break...

Most of the time, we are safe. Terror is not normal. It is terrible for those who are attacked, we feel with them and our hearts cry. But I don't want to give the terrorists any focus or space here on IORR, not at all.

Paris is the center of the Rolling Stones tour start 2012, rehearsals, shows, clubs, theatres, arenas, Stade de France, I know hundreds of fans and friends in France, there are thousands of Stones fans. Exile on main Street. There are a thousand reasons why Paris is mentioend here on IORR these days.

When Paris is attacked I think it is fair to give space to grief, sympathy, desperation and hope. Feel free to post here. And if you live in a safe place far away from terror and hate, please respect the need for fans to express their sadness and emotions here. It is called healing, trust and respect. We have space for that on IORR. Thank you.

Bjornulf

thanks Bjornulf for your sensitive words not only for Paris but also for all of those who suffered from madness

Quote
Naturalust
How much freedom, liberty and privacy are we willing to sacrifice for a bit of safety? This very real industry of security and protection that grows daily from the seeds of military and law enforcement and threatens to become it's own monster with it's attention and actions directed at the very people it was designed to protect scares me more than the potential threat of terror actually.


.

um, you ARE kidding?

Quote
ohmercy61
Ask the family's who lost love ones some children in the Boston marathon bombing if they would sacrifice a little freedom,or privacy so these Terrorists would have been stopped before the bombs went off?

You might be surprised at the answer ohmercy, but this kind of logic is not particularly useful considering the actual effectiveness of some of the things that deny us freedom and privacy have had on terror prevention and the obvious feelings most victims families will have regardless of the situation.

In any case, I totally agree with Bjornulf that, after a proper showing of grief, support and compassion, the proper reaction to such a tragic act of terrorism is to show no fear, continue to live and interact with the world and community they try so hard to shut down. It's one of the reasons I'm disappointed in the Artists that are cancelling shows in Paris! Who are the Artists who haven't cancelled their shows there? These are the ones I want to give a nod to.

Naturalist you don't have the info to make such judgements about the artists and their shows. Perhaps there is specific intelligence about threats. the situation is fluid and the press is going wild.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-17 00:49 by Turner68.

Good call Bjornulf.

Don't know if this has been posted in this thread already, but it is profound, profane (Not Safe for Work) and it's underlying premise - to go on and not let the bastards make us live in fear - is right on. So, go ahead John Oliver:

[www.youtube.com]

That video (Oliver) is offensive. He typically calls them ass**** rather than what they are. Muslim terrorists

Of course I'm not kidding Stones50, but living in the country might just temper my views a bit. And Turner the info. I was commenting about from past terror has come out long ago and has been discussed at some length, Paris and the USA have admitted this attack was unexpected and a surprise, no? No blame here, just grief and compassion.

Love the artists who say so much with simple pictures.

Quote
Naturalust
It's one of the reasons I'm disappointed in the Artists that are cancelling shows in Paris! Who are the Artists who haven't cancelled their shows there? These are the ones I want to give a nod to.

Apparently most shows were cancelled for administrative reasons and were not the bands doing. I have no definitive information about other shows but Motorhead and Marilyn Manson wanted to go on, as well as the venues and promoters - both shows were only cancelled when administrative decisions were published. I've heard of logistics issues too for these two bands, with border controls being reinforced.

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
ohmercy61
Ask the family's who lost love ones some children in the Boston marathon bombing if they would sacrifice a little freedom,or privacy so these Terrorists would have been stopped before the bombs went off?

You might be surprised at the answer ohmercy, but this kind of logic is not particularly useful considering the actual effectiveness of some of the things that deny us freedom and privacy have had on terror prevention and the obvious feelings most victims families will have regardless of the situation.

In any case, I totally agree with Bjornulf that, after a proper showing of grief, support and compassion, the proper reaction to such a tragic act of terrorism is to show no fear, continue to live and interact with the world and community they try so hard to shut down. It's one of the reasons I'm disappointed in the Artists that are cancelling shows in Paris! Who are the Artists who haven't cancelled their shows there? These are the ones I want to give a nod to.

It is disappointing to see terrorists getting the social disruption and fear
they planned. Let's hope this is a temporary reaction. Keep in mind the artists
may be forced to cancel due to their insurance companies along with the various
venues. So these cancellations may not be entirely the artists call.

Quote
kovach

Quote
HighwireC

Quote
kovach

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
HighwireC
Do you believe, some "couple of good guys with concealed carry permits" would have had a real chance to stopp these terrorists using machine guns, really?

Show me one example, please ...

Peace.
HigfhwireC

Yes I obviously do or I wouldn't have said so.. I assure you if I was there, I would have tried to stop them. And if you were there and armed you probably would have too. I implore you not to continue the debate for obvious reasons..

But since you asked for examples:

[crimeresearch.org]

Seems to be a misperception of gun crimes in the US. I don't own a gun myself but I support the right of those who do. And yes we have the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, but when it comes to gun related crimes we don't even crack the top 100 countries in the world. That doesn't exactly suggest more guns = more violence.

US is listed at Nr. 13 world wide after Honduras, Venezuela, El Salvador (Undercover!), Jamaica, Swaziland, Guatemala, Colombia, South Africa, Brazil, Uruguay and Mexico ...



(look here: [en.wikipedia.org] ).

I stand corrected, I was referring to this which puts us at 91:

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't think you may be reading the table correctly. If you click on the murder 'rate' at the top, it will list from 'best to worst countries' in ranking order, which lists the US as the 98th 'best' in the world. If the goal is to be in the top 100 countries, as GWB might say, "Mission Accomplished!"

The real 'throat-clearer' I think, is if you look at the countries above, and below the US. That should scream something quite loudly...if it doesn't, perhaps get some chloraseptic.

Haven't read the whole thread but wanted to say thanks to bv for hosting it and for his comments.

On a personal note I was at a concert at the Trianon on Friday (Dan Auerbachs's "The Arcs", great show, see his reaction to the tragedy here [www.rollingstone.com]) and was supposed to see Gary Clark at the Bataclan (where I saw Robert Plant last year) on Wednesday, so this tragedy really hits home. There are no words for what happened. Peace.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-17 01:51 by gotdablouse.

Reading the accounts of the victims in the French papers, a lot of young rock fans obviously, people out eating in cafes, many parents of young kids. What an absolute horror. Almost 500 people were shot or blown up. So many lives destroyed. It is worth it to step back and read of few of these and just think about all of these people who will never have a chance to live their lives, just on account of madness.

Quote
gwen
Apparently most shows were cancelled for administrative reasons and were not the bands doing. I have no definitive information about other shows but Motorhead and Marilyn Manson wanted to go on, as well as the venues and promoters - both shows were only cancelled when administrative decisions were published. I've heard of logistics issues too for these two bands, with border controls being reinforced.

thanks, Gwen.

I was wondering about this. And imagine, among other --more profound and human-- nightmares, terrorism creates insurance nightmares out the wazoo. I would like to believe that, left to their own devices the artists would go on (if they had the choice).

I am with Naturalust (as I said 5 pp ago) about preference for not laying out personal freedoms and civil liberties on a sacrificial alter for a [usually false, specious] sense of Security. Especially given the Fear/Terrorism profiteers already rubbing their hands together with glee at their soaring revenues.

As I said, give me liberty or give me death. I do not wish to live in a tightly controlled authoritarian state. Nor to contribute to lining the pockets of the vermin who profit from increased and manufactured demand for incarceration, security, surveillance, etc.

- swiss

Just watched this, interesting, but depressing look at the history of the war in Syria.




[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Rokyfan
Reading the accounts of the victims in the French papers, a lot of young rock fans obviously, people out eating in cafes, many parents of young kids. What an absolute horror. Almost 500 people were shot or blown up. So many lives destroyed. It is worth it to step back and read of few of these and just think about all of these people who will never have a chance to live their lives, just on account of madness.

Tragic.

I went to see the Charlatans (UK) last night at the Fonda theater in Hollywood, and while there may have been a bit of apprehension prior to the show,
once the band started everyone became lost in the rock and roll and drifted away...great show.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
swiss

Quote
gwen
Apparently most shows were cancelled for administrative reasons and were not the bands doing. I have no definitive information about other shows but Motorhead and Marilyn Manson wanted to go on, as well as the venues and promoters - both shows were only cancelled when administrative decisions were published. I've heard of logistics issues too for these two bands, with border controls being reinforced.

thanks, Gwen.

I was wondering about this. And imagine, among other --more profound and human-- nightmares, terrorism creates insurance nightmares out the wazoo. I would like to believe that, left to their own devices the artists would go on (if they had the choice).

I am with Naturalust (as I said 5 pp ago) about preference for not laying out personal freedoms and civil liberties on a sacrificial alter for a [usually false, specious] sense of Security. Especially given the Fear/Terrorism profiteers already rubbing their hands together with glee at their soaring revenues.

As I said, give me liberty or give me death. I do not wish to live in a tightly controlled authoritarian state. Nor to contribute to lining the pockets of the vermin who profit from increased and manufactured demand for incarceration, security, surveillance, etc.

- swiss

Thanks swiss, well said, And thanks gwen for the perspective on the Artists not performing in Paris.

I always get a warm and fuzzy when I see one of those New Hampshire license plates with the state motto "Live Free or Die".

Interestingly one of the earliest uses of the phrase was "Vivre Libre ou Mourir", popular in the French revolution!

Quote
latebloomer
Just watched this, interesting, but depressing look at the history of the war in Syria.

Thanks for that bloomer. Although of course I'm still confused who the good guys and the bad guys are and I have to smile because after all that analysis the narrator admits:

"So as it stands now, there are lots of different groups and outside countries involved in Syria's war. And even among allies there are big disagreements about who their enemies are, who to support and how to do it"

And to add to the confusion I've heard there are hundreds of different factions within the rebel groups who all have there own agendas, don't communicate with each other and are often at odds.

And France is going to insert itself into this mess? Yikes.

Yeah NL, that's what makes it depressing. It's such a mess.