Wood was a great addition.But to say he revitalized the band, I disagree. It was only a year earlier that they had come off maybe their greatest live shows The albums GHS and IORR may not have been as great as Exile, but were still big sellers and in retrospect are excellent.I once read a quote from Wyman that Taylor had spoken to him about rejoining.In 1977 it’s common knowledge Mick reached out to Taylor about rejoining the band if Keith went to jail and Taylor didn’t outright dismiss it.In2013 he clearly was receptive to rejoining the band.But to say Wood revitalized the band , I disagree .If Taylor had not quit in1974 he would not have been fired by Mick and Keithand the band would have gone on probably with some great albums and not so great ones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-30 19:07 by Taylor1.

It may now be an anachronism, but it would be a dream come true if Mick Taylor were to rejoin the band as a third guitarist. His performances in 2013/14 were the highlights of the tour. Unaffected by this is the fact that Ronnie Wood was and is an indispensable part of the band.

Quote
RobertJohnson
It may now be an anachronism, but it would be a dream come true if Mick Taylor were to rejoin the band as a third guitarist. His performances in 2013/14 were the highlights of the tour. Unaffected by this is the fact that Ronnie Wood was and is an indispensable part of the band.

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

But it was beautiful to see Taylor with them back then. At best there were some truely memorable moments. Oh, and there were also Charlie, Bobby and Lisa still there... A sort of dream team of the modern times...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-31 16:04 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa

But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them.
- Doxa

I think that you are right if for 3 guitar concept we intend arrangements that allowed Mick Taylor to be the Mick Taylor we all love on all the songs in the set list. Too much work and - probably - the casual fan wouldn't notice the difference.

But also I think that allotting two songs in the set list for Taylor to do his thing (say rambler and knocking or sway or love in vain) and on the other songs letting him take over the 3rd guitar duties that were of Blondie and are of Mick Jagger + adding juicy fills and tasty licks here and there in the background (Streets of love in Rome comes to mind) could have easily worked without shattering too much their stage arrangements.

The typical win win situation: Taylorites happy & Woodists happy.

God knows what really happened this time between Taylor and the band and a real pity - whatever the reasons - that it didn't last long.

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-31 16:46 by liddas.

Slipping Away with Taylor:





[www.youtube.com]

Quote
liddas

God knows what really happened this time between Taylor and the band and a real pity - whatever the reasons - that it didn't last long.

And who knows how Mick Taylor is doing. No solo projects, he didn't record with the Stones for Hackney Diamonds and his [Facebook.com] page shows only birthday/holiday wishes. Seems unlikely that he'll now tour with the Stones.

Taylor was underused on that tour to a point where it almost became embarrassing. At least he got a paycheck though.
They could have built something around Taylor's involvement but they didn't. Instead they let it slip away...

Quote
Doxa

But it was beautiful to see Taylor with them back then. At best there were some truely memorable moments. Oh, and there were also Charlie, Bobby and Lisa still there... A sort of dream team of the modern times...

- Doxa

Yes! Perfectly said. It wasn't 1972 all over again, but it was sure a sweet taste of the old days.

In the late 6-tees and early 7-tees the Stones didn't rehearse or focus that much either. They grew by touring much longer, in favour of Taylor's level exclusively. That's what I liked about Taylor with the Stones. The other four knew their role already. After Taylor all five of them knew their role already.Maybe Taylor was the only idiot or most creative, who knows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-31 23:24 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
RobertJohnson
It may now be an anachronism, but it would be a dream come true if Mick Taylor were to rejoin the band as a third guitarist. His performances in 2013/14 were the highlights of the tour. Unaffected by this is the fact that Ronnie Wood was and is an indispensable part of the band.

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

But it was beautiful to see Taylor with them back then. At best there were some truely memorable moments. Oh, and there were also Charlie, Bobby and Lisa still there... A sort of dream team of the modern times...

- Doxa

[youtu.be]

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Do I understand that correctly? Mick Taylor is said to have stolen merchandising items and was therefore barred by security from further participation in band activities? Or have I misunderstood something? If not, do you have any sources for this?

The overriding impression with MT [...and he's always come over as a nice enough bloke from what we've been able to see & hear...]is that over the years he's received and been guided by an awful lot of bad advice.

Some of it perhaps well intentioned... but some of it based on greed and malice.

The Stones themselves are all generous as musicians...

But the corporate Stones machine is a hard nosed mother that will not tolerate uppity managers or representatives with ideas above their station.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like Glastonbury



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-01 15:07 by Taylor1.

Quote
Mathijs


charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

I assume you are talking about the Gibson Les Paul with the Bigsby that Taylor played with the Stones in 2012, and allegedly (?) belonged to Jeff Allen. Taylor's former drummer and studio owner at Sensible Music Studios :


[twitter.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-02 15:29 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
Stoneage
Taylor was underused on that tour to a point where it almost became embarrassing. At least he got a paycheck though.
They could have built something around Taylor's involvement but they didn't. Instead they let it slip away...

I in no way disagree with you. I only went to that tour because of Taylor and it did not disappoint cause I luckily got a show where he got a second outing with Can't You Hear Me Knockin'. 10 minutes of that and Midnight Rambler was incredible.

Having said that, to defend the band: they didn't HAVE to bring him back. Yes, them bringing him back brought me to the show, but its not like they need me. I'd have been filled by anyone. It was a cool thing and overdue to have him guest, but ultimately I give them credit that they didn't have to and he and we should be thankful we got it at all. It was glorious, it was too little, but it could have been the same old same old and we'd have never questioned it. They went out of their way to give us a gift, and give Taylor some relevance again. As much as I wish there was more, I can't express enough how there didn't have to be any, so I'm thankful for what we got.

Where is he?
When was the last time anyone saw him play out in public?
Romancing the stone here in this thread lately does not seem too realistic...

Taylor and Wyman got involved solely due to the 50th anniversary- not because of anything else. Wyman didn't bother touring with them for one or two songs and was openly disappointed by the arrangement.

35 yrs ago at MSG Mick sat in with the Grateful Dead for the Rainforest Benefit.
He played West LA Fade Away and Little Red Rooster
I was there and it was epic!
Go to the 16 min mark to see Jerry introduce Mick Taylor

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Kurt
Where is he?
When was the last time anyone saw him play out in public?
Romancing the stone here in this thread lately does not seem too realistic...

He just turned 75. Realistically what's he really gonna do? He usually used to play clubs, why would he want to do that at this age?

Well , I hope he's just sitting at home, in good health and still loving to play guitar for his own enjoyment.

He probably hasn't made an absolute fortune down the years but he must be comfortable.

Quote
TheflyingDutchman

Quote
Mathijs


charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

I assume you are talking about the Gibson Les Paul with the Bigsby that Taylor played with the Stones in 2012and allegedly (?) belonged to Jeff Allen, Taylor's former drummer and studio owner:


[twitter.com]

No not the guitar. As far as I know they gave it back and now he does not own a guitar anymore.

They thought they were entitled to money -old royalties-, and they were very pro-active obtaining it.

Mathijs

Quote
Taylor1

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like Glastonbury

The question is how much more he could have played on if he wasn't under-rehearsed.

They gave him spots to shine -Sway, Silver Train, CYHMK- and he just never delivered.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-02 16:42 by Mathijs.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Taylor1

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like Glastonbury

The question is how much more he could have played on if he wasn't under-rehearsed.

They gave him spots to shine -Sway, Silver Train, CYHMK- and he just never delivered.

Mathijs

Sorry, I too have played guitar for a long time and I'm calling BS.

I saw the Stones in ATL last time they were there and for some reason Taylor is being judged at a different level than the ACTUAL band's guitar players who should be ULTRA rehearsed, yet they fumbled and stumbled through stuff and they get a pass. Ronnie Wood was zonked out of his mind for years and I'll tell you for a fact he was pulled out of the live mix quite often.

Relatively speaking, Taylor played pretty damn well for being thrust in front of tens of thousands of people after touring clubs for three decades.

I think the difference is that Taylor is expected to shine on solo parts when Wood is not. So Taylor is judged harder than both Wood and Richards. And I don't think Taylor is as sharp as he used to be.
In the end it's all about what you add to the mix. On the other hand, the premises weren't that good to begin with as Wyman told us. He wasn't allowed to chose songs or even a dress rehearsal.

Quote
TravelinMan

I saw the Stones in ATL last time they were there and for some reason Taylor is being judged at a different level than the ACTUAL band's guitar players who should be ULTRA rehearsed, yet they fumbled and stumbled through stuff and they get a pass. Ronnie Wood was zonked out of his mind for years and I'll tell you for a fact he was pulled out of the live mix quite often.

You can call it BS but it's what actually happened.

And yes, Taylor was judged on a higher level as he was there to help and add to Wood and Richards, who were becoming more and more unreliable. Instead of elevating the guitar section he came in unrehearsed and turned out an unreliability.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Taylor1

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Doxa

A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.

- Doxa

Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.

Mathijs

Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like Glastonbury

The question is how much more he could have played on if he wasn't under-rehearsed.

They gave him spots to shine -Sway, Silver Train, CYHMK- and he just never delivered.

Mathijs

CYHMK was great at Glastonbury.There was never a Midnight Rambler that was bad, maybe not great, but better than the ones without him for the last 25 years.I doubt the reason he wasn’t given more songs to play on was because his playing was subpar.Wyman also was told he would only get 1or 2 songs to play on.It’s because Mick wanted it that way.He only got to play Silver Train a couple of times.So if they weren’t great you immediately say that’s it? Same with Sway, and all the other songs he played on other than Midnight Rambler..He only got the chance to play them a couple of times.How do you judge him on that small sample



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-02 18:36 by Taylor1.

Mick wanted it that way.

?

Jagger or Taylor?

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

I saw the Stones in ATL last time they were there and for some reason Taylor is being judged at a different level than the ACTUAL band's guitar players who should be ULTRA rehearsed, yet they fumbled and stumbled through stuff and they get a pass. Ronnie Wood was zonked out of his mind for years and I'll tell you for a fact he was pulled out of the live mix quite often.

You can call it BS but it's what actually happened.

And yes, Taylor was judged on a higher level as he was there to help and add to Wood and Richards, who were becoming more and more unreliable. Instead of elevating the guitar section he came in unrehearsed and turned out an unreliability.

Mathijs

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I am saying I think it's BS to judge him like he's a session musician when he's essentially a road worn rocker a few years younger than than the band.

That said, I'll take your points and just say it's unfortunate it worked out the way it did. I felt he sounded really good on the Jimmy Reed stuff with Wood. I'm guessing there was too much pressure and perhaps some self sabotage with the Stones reunion, in addition to some outside forces you mention.