For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
RobertJohnson
It may now be an anachronism, but it would be a dream come true if Mick Taylor were to rejoin the band as a third guitarist. His performances in 2013/14 were the highlights of the tour. Unaffected by this is the fact that Ronnie Wood was and is an indispensable part of the band.
Quote
Doxa
But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them.
- Doxa
Quote
liddas
God knows what really happened this time between Taylor and the band and a real pity - whatever the reasons - that it didn't last long.
Quote
Doxa
But it was beautiful to see Taylor with them back then. At best there were some truely memorable moments. Oh, and there were also Charlie, Bobby and Lisa still there... A sort of dream team of the modern times...
- Doxa
Quote
DoxaQuote
RobertJohnson
It may now be an anachronism, but it would be a dream come true if Mick Taylor were to rejoin the band as a third guitarist. His performances in 2013/14 were the highlights of the tour. Unaffected by this is the fact that Ronnie Wood was and is an indispensable part of the band.
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
But it was beautiful to see Taylor with them back then. At best there were some truely memorable moments. Oh, and there were also Charlie, Bobby and Lisa still there... A sort of dream team of the modern times...
- Doxa
Quote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Quote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like GlastonburyQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
Quote
Mathijs
charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
Quote
Stoneage
Taylor was underused on that tour to a point where it almost became embarrassing. At least he got a paycheck though.
They could have built something around Taylor's involvement but they didn't. Instead they let it slip away...
Quote
Kurt
Where is he?
When was the last time anyone saw him play out in public?
Romancing the stone here in this thread lately does not seem too realistic...
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Mathijs
charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
I assume you are talking about the Gibson Les Paul with the Bigsby that Taylor played with the Stones in 2012and allegedly (?) belonged to Jeff Allen, Taylor's former drummer and studio owner:
[twitter.com]
Quote
Taylor1Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like GlastonburyQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
Quote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like GlastonburyQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
The question is how much more he could have played on if he wasn't under-rehearsed.
They gave him spots to shine -Sway, Silver Train, CYHMK- and he just never delivered.
Mathijs
Quote
TravelinMan
I saw the Stones in ATL last time they were there and for some reason Taylor is being judged at a different level than the ACTUAL band's guitar players who should be ULTRA rehearsed, yet they fumbled and stumbled through stuff and they get a pass. Ronnie Wood was zonked out of his mind for years and I'll tell you for a fact he was pulled out of the live mix quite often.
CYHMK was great at Glastonbury.There was never a Midnight Rambler that was bad, maybe not great, but better than the ones without him for the last 25 years.I doubt the reason he wasn’t given more songs to play on was because his playing was subpar.Wyman also was told he would only get 1or 2 songs to play on.It’s because Mick wanted it that way.He only got to play Silver Train a couple of times.So if they weren’t great you immediately say that’s it? Same with Sway, and all the other songs he played on other than Midnight Rambler..He only got the chance to play them a couple of times.How do you judge him on that small sampleQuote
MathijsQuote
Taylor1Under rehearsed? How much rehearsing was necessary for one or two songs he was allowed to play?Maybe the problem was giving him usually one song to play didn’t afford him the opportunity to warm up and get locked in.He still played better than Wood and Richards on those shows, although it wasn’t 1972-1973.But there were some nice moments like GlastonburyQuote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
A dream indeed, taken that the guitarist has retired years ago. But what goes for the three guitar concept, Keith also seemed to be initially thrilled about the idea, but afterwards came to the conclusion that it does not work. I take the latter mean that the arrangements, including the guitar parts and roles, of modern Stones shows are so carved in stone after so many tours that it asks too much for the old men to think about changing them. Keith and Ronnie know their roles and parts by heart, and, you know, let it be so. The use of Taylor back in 2012/14 was mostly limited to parts he could shine 'isolated' with his solos ("Rambler", "Can't You Hear Me Knocking"), but not being that integral to the over-all sound and band dynamics. When they sometimes tried that the result were not that promising. Thinking about, for example, "Silver Train" or "Sway" - a sort of mess like none really knowing who is doing and what, and none taking the whole thing in his shoulders or being determined to nail the thing. So my point is that to make that (beautiful in theory) three guitar concept work, would have asked too much rehearsal and work by them. The old dogs do not easily learn new tricks.
- Doxa
Unfortunately the truth is much less nice and romantic than your assumption here. By all means it was the intention, mostly Jagger's, to get Taylor on board, back as a band member. But he and his manager just completely ruined it by being completely under rehearsed, substance abuse, attacks and arguments over royalties and money, and finally being exported out of a venue by security and being banned for good on charges of theft of merchandize proceedings.
Mathijs
The question is how much more he could have played on if he wasn't under-rehearsed.
They gave him spots to shine -Sway, Silver Train, CYHMK- and he just never delivered.
Mathijs
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinMan
I saw the Stones in ATL last time they were there and for some reason Taylor is being judged at a different level than the ACTUAL band's guitar players who should be ULTRA rehearsed, yet they fumbled and stumbled through stuff and they get a pass. Ronnie Wood was zonked out of his mind for years and I'll tell you for a fact he was pulled out of the live mix quite often.
You can call it BS but it's what actually happened.
And yes, Taylor was judged on a higher level as he was there to help and add to Wood and Richards, who were becoming more and more unreliable. Instead of elevating the guitar section he came in unrehearsed and turned out an unreliability.
Mathijs