Ok Jagger himself just confirmed that Taylor will not be playing on this tour. Now I can be disappointed.

[www.iorr.org]

peace

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Naturalust



And Doxa, to add to your discussion of why Jagger chose Ron Wood, I have to believe that Keith, as musical director had a large say in the choice at the time and as a full blown addict, was as concerned about having someone who could tolerate his condition and even participate in it as he was about any musical considerations. The fact that he was an Englishman and looked the part certainly sealed the deal. It's never solely about the music. I think back to the story about Jo Wood meeting Keith and how he walked in, openly fixed his drugs and only then decided an introduction was in order. The fact that Ronnie was ok with that speaks volumes..most of the other guitarist choices (and their wives) would probably have run from that scene. Mick knew this was a problem too and it probably contributed to his acceptance of Ronnie.

All that being said, do I think Ronnie was the right choice for the Stones? Obviously he was because they are still together and super successful. Was it the best choice for the music or Ronnie's development as a guitarist? I don't think so and that's why some of us fans are still pining for the glorious days of Mick Taylor, some 40 friggin' years later.

Yeah, I wholeheartidly agree with what you say... The marriage of Keith and Ronnie seemed to be sealed in heaven, they had everything in common, and then we have all of that "ancient art of weavng" stuff etc.

However, the thing that I never have quite understand is why Jagger 'let' it happen... It looked like that (a) Woody was not that kind of guitarist Jagger was fond of (no melodical support for a vocalist), and (b) just another drug addict to Keith's court... And the thing is: I don't think anything so crucial - deciding a band member - goes without Jagger's strong opinion in the case...

That said, like it was pointed out earlier in this thread, it was Jagger who was initially for Woody, and Keith having some restrictions because he thought Woody's style was too close to his. It is for that 'anomaly' I have tried to figure out some sort of explanation: why did Jagger want Woody so much to join the band back then? Why he was initially 'Mick's man'?

I used some non-related, co-incidental, contingent happenings to make some sense: that of Nicky Hopkins claimed that Mick wanted replace Keith with Ronnie in 1973, that of about the same time Taylor claiming that Jagger wanted to fire Keith if he only can (while Taylor was still in the band), and lastly, that of Jagger asking Taylor to join the Stones in 1977 if Keith will be be in jail for some years. Mick seemingly had the idea that Wood/Taylor guitar axis would somehow do the work needed. In all those scenarios it is not Taylor's, but Keith's job in question. And that Ronnie was there to do that. So the whole issue - Taylor vs. Wood - is not actually the one we should concentrate so much... They had such a different role and function in the band. Anyway, this is something that just very recently occurred to my mind. Let's say, I'm just testing the theory, slipping it with my mouth... I could be be totally wrong, I know...

By the way, always a privilege read your contributions, Naturalust. Very rarely I find something to disagree with, that's why I find it hard to comment anything...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-02 21:30 by Doxa.

Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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Naturalust
Normally it would be unrealistic to be doing so many comparisons of the Taylor vs. Wood Stones after Taylor has been gone 40 years, but I think the fact that the Stones are playing so many 40 year old songs gives it relevance. If they had developed a catalog with Ron Wood that was strong enough to fill out entire concerts and still draw big crowds and send them away happy, the Taylor discussions would take on a entirely different angle. People would probably be talking about Ronnies playing in the 70's vs. his playing in the 2000's and the great Taylor years would be discussed but in a different context.

...and there we have it, if we're being honest.

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

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treaclefingers

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Naturalust
Normally it would be unrealistic to be doing so many comparisons of the Taylor vs. Wood Stones after Taylor has been gone 40 years, but I think the fact that the Stones are playing so many 40 year old songs gives it relevance. If they had developed a catalog with Ron Wood that was strong enough to fill out entire concerts and still draw big crowds and send them away happy, the Taylor discussions would take on a entirely different angle. People would probably be talking about Ronnies playing in the 70's vs. his playing in the 2000's and the great Taylor years would be discussed but in a different context.

...and there we have it, if we're being honest.

Exactly. With the Stones the whole idea of "nostalgy", "current", "memberhood" and everything is just so twisted. I guess our hero Jagger has something to do with why double standards are rather accepted here.... "Hey you Taylorites, you nostalgic idiots who live in the past, why don't you move on?"... And then we have a million dollar band band playing 40 plus old years old hits trying to copy the band that existed back then...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-02 21:56 by Doxa.

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Doxa
"Hey you Taylorites, you nostalgic idiots who live in the past, why don't you move on?"... And then we have a million dollar band band playing 40 plus old years old hits trying to copy the band that existed back then...

- Doxa

Yeah that sentiment is exactly was I was trying to defend against. And thanks Doxa, I also truly enjoy your thoughtful and insightful posts. One line posts often make me smile but yours always make me think!

peace

And now this STICKY FINGERS replica project. If it really is so that Mick Taylor is available and willing, to think that these guys do a recostruction of that album, it will be like "yeah, thrilling to hear Ron Wood doing the solos of 'Sway' and 'Can't You Hear Me Knocking', as it would be to hear Roger Daltrey to sing 'Brown Sugar' and 'Wild Horses'. STICKY FINGERS, man!

Nostalgy is a tricky business when one starts to play it with.

I think I need 'another' glass of wine...

- Doxa

I'll have a glass too..

im sure Mick Taylor feels like his services are no longer needed..

it sucks..

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

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DoomandGloom

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

He actually said "this is another beginning of another tour", which in context I believe means "We've already done a tour with Taylor", we're moving on", and perhaps more importantly "we've taken him around the world for many gigs, when all we originally planned with him was one show" so we have given you fans more than should be expected in terms of Taylor.

Like palerider22 says on that thread and what I find interesting is what Jagger almost said when he started to talk about Taylor.."No, I don't think...He's not...he's got...he's not...ah...not going to play on this tour.......I don't think he's coming on this."

He's got other plans? He's got reservations about playing one or two songs for another round of shows? But when dissecting the answer "I don't think he's coming on this", kind of leaves open the possibility doesn't it? And it seems to point to a factor beyond Micks control as the reason he isn't definitely included.

peace

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DoomandGloom

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

Stop typing with your ears and they won't hurt nearly as much...

Plus, Katy Perry's been tapped to sing "Sister Morphine" with a stage full of stuffed sharks for Mick to play "leap-shark" with.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Ever so slightly OT, but I think Mick Jagger suggested Ronnie Wood for the band because Rod and the Faces were what was happening in that time. They chose MT because he had followed Clapton and Peter Green into the Bluesbreakers. In both cases the guitarist was what was fashionable in London. Both looked good too.

Those two lengthy posts by Naturalist and Doxa up here were a great read and I think there's more truth in them than even their writers are aware of. You know, I have a truthful source, but I had to promise not to tell anything more.

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

He actually said "this is another beginning of another tour", which in context I believe means "We've already done a tour with Taylor", we're moving on", and perhaps more importantly "we've taken him around the world for many gigs, when all we originally planned with him was one show" so we have given you fans more than should be expected in terms of Taylor.

Like palerider22 says on that thread and what I find interesting is what Jagger almost said when he started to talk about Taylor.."No, I don't think...He's not...he's got...he's not...ah...not going to play on this tour.......I don't think he's coming on this."

He's got other plans? He's got reservations about playing one or two songs for another round of shows? But when dissecting the answer "I don't think he's coming on this", kind of leaves open the possibility doesn't it? And it seems to point to a factor beyond Micks control as the reason he isn't definitely included.

peace

Seems that 'keno' may have been accurate with his comment on his website. It's starting to sound like a health issue which is a private thing...but who knows. One can only hope MT can make it onstage at some point...

cheers

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

They have to call it something. They can't run through the same market just 2 years later with a show format people have already seen and expect to fill even larger venues.

OK Its soon time to bring the "we want Taylor back" banners at the U.S. shows

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stonehearted

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

They have to call it something. They can't run through the same market just 2 years later with a show format people have already seen and expect to fill even larger venues.

The setlists in 2013 were different than the euro setlists in 2014, though.

Warhorses only would be like a new start

I wouldn't rule out seeing these guys come back through the major US markets in the fall. I know there has much talk of South America, but I think the US markets are economically more viable. Could be they are test driving the 2015 show in the secondary markets before hitting the big ones......

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Woz
I wouldn't rule out seeing these guys come back through the major US markets in the fall. I know there has much talk of South America, but I think the US markets are economically more viable. Could be they are test driving the 2015 show in the secondary markets before hitting the big ones......

I doubt it after already hitting the major markets on the 14 on Fire Tour with the MT secret weapon in tow. More likely a select few South American shows in the big markets down there and then a European tour in 2016 to wrap things up....these guys are getting too old to be adding another American market tour on top of this one, imo. But I hope I'm wrong.

peace

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palerider22

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

He actually said "this is another beginning of another tour", which in context I believe means "We've already done a tour with Taylor", we're moving on", and perhaps more importantly "we've taken him around the world for many gigs, when all we originally planned with him was one show" so we have given you fans more than should be expected in terms of Taylor.

Like palerider22 says on that thread and what I find interesting is what Jagger almost said when he started to talk about Taylor.."No, I don't think...He's not...he's got...he's not...ah...not going to play on this tour.......I don't think he's coming on this."

He's got other plans? He's got reservations about playing one or two songs for another round of shows? But when dissecting the answer "I don't think he's coming on this", kind of leaves open the possibility doesn't it? And it seems to point to a factor beyond Micks control as the reason he isn't definitely included.

peace

Seems that 'keno' may have been accurate with his comment on his website. It's starting to sound like a health issue which is a private thing...but who knows. One can only hope MT can make it onstage at some point...

cheers

which I agree with although I hope it's not the case of course. Better to blame MJ for the decision, but I'd wager it wasn't his choice.

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treaclefingers

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palerider22

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
Yep...well he said "I don't think he's coming along on this tour" apparently because it's a "new beginning"...beginning of what you have to wonder with zero new material, oh well.

"A New Beginning"? >< Because they call a greatest hits tour with a different name? Anyway, they seemingly still have the choir for 'encore' number, but no Taylor - nor Bobby - any more. So that is the actual difference...

- Doxa

A secondary show for secondary cities. Kind of a slap in the face to those people. Meanwhile they'll play "Sticky" shows perhaps with guests in LA and NY, that's why they're yet unannounced and considered a different series. Looking forward to hearing Katy Perry sing Sway in Forest Hills. My ears hurt just writing this.

He actually said "this is another beginning of another tour", which in context I believe means "We've already done a tour with Taylor", we're moving on", and perhaps more importantly "we've taken him around the world for many gigs, when all we originally planned with him was one show" so we have given you fans more than should be expected in terms of Taylor.

Like palerider22 says on that thread and what I find interesting is what Jagger almost said when he started to talk about Taylor.."No, I don't think...He's not...he's got...he's not...ah...not going to play on this tour.......I don't think he's coming on this."

He's got other plans? He's got reservations about playing one or two songs for another round of shows? But when dissecting the answer "I don't think he's coming on this", kind of leaves open the possibility doesn't it? And it seems to point to a factor beyond Micks control as the reason he isn't definitely included.

peace

Seems that 'keno' may have been accurate with his comment on his website. It's starting to sound like a health issue which is a private thing...but who knows. One can only hope MT can make it onstage at some point...

cheers

which I agree with although I hope it's not the case of course. Better to blame MJ for the decision, but I'd wager it wasn't his choice.

I don't buy the health issue. If that were true Taylor would'nt have posted on FB what he posted. And if it's true, why not saying it openly? It's no state secret nor a capital crime. It's simply not true, logic tells me.

I'm totally puzzled...Is it just simply he was 'unfortunately not invited'? If so, just a very sad decision...a waste.

By the way kleermaker...Thank you for your youtube channel. I get a lot of enjoyment visiting it!

I'm really bummed about this, it would have been a dream to see Taylor play with his old mates on Dead Flowers and Sway. They could have closed the night with Moonlight Mile. Depressing.....

We all may be trying to read much more into the simple decision that one or more of the Stones (probably Keith and Ronnie) just decided that the one tour was enough for any guest. It clearly is a new tour so inviting him out again would have just seemed like something they had already done. They probably feel they gave Taylor a huge gift by wisking him around the world with 5 star accommodations, royal treatment and a spotlight opportunity every night. Keith and Ronnie admitting that they needed him musically to make the show exciting is not likely something they would admit after 40 years of the current lineup, and probably don't believe anyway...they are both masters of denial, years of practice with their addictions.

It would be nice to think that they considered bringing him along and letting him play more but logically that leads to a bigger decision...Is the Stones being perceived as a three guitar band really what they want at this point?

I'm obviously as infatuated with this issue as anyone but I'm guessing it was a just brief discussion by Keith and Ronnie and the answer was obvious (to them). I can't wait till someone pins the question on Keith. I think Taylor will just simply concur he wasn't invited, no further explanation from him necessary.

peace

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Naturalust
We all may be trying to read much more into the simple decision that one or more of the Stones (probably Keith and Ronnie) just decided that the one tour was enough for any guest. It clearly is a new tour so inviting him out again would have just seemed like something they had already done. They probably feel they gave Taylor a huge gift by wisking him around the world with 5 star accommodations, royal treatment and a spotlight opportunity every night. Keith and Ronnie admitting that they needed him musically to make the show exciting is not likely something they would admit after 40 years of the current lineup, and probably don't believe anyway...they are both masters of denial, years of practice with their addictions.

It would be nice to think that they considered bringing him along and letting him play more but logically that leads to a bigger decision...Is the Stones being perceived as a three guitar band really what they want at this point?

I'm obviously as infatuated with this issue as anyone but I'm guessing it was a just brief discussion by Keith and Ronnie and the answer was obvious (to them). I can't wait till someone pins the question on Keith. I think Taylor will just simply concur he wasn't invited, no further explanation from him necessary.

peace

Agreed - but I personally believe that Mick is the one who doesn't like the idea of having Taylor join them for another round. He probably feels that he doesn't want to give anyone the impression that Taylor would be a permanent fixture in the group. Having Taylor on 14 on Fire made sense since the tour was a continuation of the 50th Anniversary celebrations. A new tour brings a clean slate and Mick has simply chosen to bring everything back to normal; the reset button. Does Mick care that there would be no better tour than a Sticky Fingers tour to have Taylor join? No. He has his boundaries and he doesn't want them crossed. Taylor was the "gimmick" for the last tour and now it's onto something else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-03 04:03 by Justin.

I'd speculate that it was very briefly discussed at a band meeting, with all four members present, possibly even voted on and I'm further guessing that if anyone, Charlie probably voted to keep him on...bless his humble heart.

peace

The Marc Maron podcast put the issue to rest.

Is that OFFICIAL Enough?
THIS SUCKS!

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Naturalust
We all may be trying to read much more into the simple decision that one or more of the Stones (probably Keith and Ronnie) just decided that the one tour was enough for any guest. It clearly is a new tour so inviting him out again would have just seemed like something they had already done. They probably feel they gave Taylor a huge gift by wisking him around the world with 5 star accommodations, royal treatment and a spotlight opportunity every night. Keith and Ronnie admitting that they needed him musically to make the show exciting is not likely something they would admit after 40 years of the current lineup, and probably don't believe anyway...they are both masters of denial, years of practice with their addictions.

It would be nice to think that they considered bringing him along and letting him play more but logically that leads to a bigger decision...Is the Stones being perceived as a three guitar band really what they want at this point?

I'm obviously as infatuated with this issue as anyone but I'm guessing it was a just brief discussion by Keith and Ronnie and the answer was obvious (to them). I can't wait till someone pins the question on Keith. I think Taylor will just simply concur he wasn't invited, no further explanation from him necessary.

peace

I can only guess, but your what you wrote is certainly possible ..it dovetails well with Jagger stating that he was not sure how the rest of the band would feel about it when once asked a hypothetical question about Taylor guesting with them a few years prior to the 50 and counting stint...and with Charlie last year stating he and JAGGER enjoy Taylor's playing on this last tour, but its easy for THEM, because they are not in the guitar zone that is for Ronnie and Keith to figure out... If anyone remembers that.