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Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: November 15, 2013 16:25

Quote
DandelionPowderman
"Hey Negrita" -> Another average attempt at funk/disco"

This is incorrect musically grinning smiley

Oh well, anything dance-able I tend to call funk/disco, which I admit is probably not completely correct. "Another average attempt at a 'dance-track'", does that sound better to you?

Quote
DandelionPowderman
"Hand of Fate" -> A simple auto-paradoy of a rocker, with the standard Keith open tuning riff.

It's more than that. It also contains a (imo) beautiful funk bridge - hence it's not "auto-parodic".

A review is of course about aquired taste. However, wrong cathegorisation of musical styles is not grinning smiley

And here I admit I forgot about the bridge. So, the song would be 93% the standard I/IV open tuning riff and 7% a "funky bridge" (or is it more a danceable bridge? hmmm....).

I am actually listening to the album right now, and my opinion is pretty much the same.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 15, 2013 16:33

First and foremost HN is a rock track, but with a funky rhythm, and also with a caribbean twist. With that kind of punch (listen to the drums and the hard-rocking groove!).

I agree that Hand Of Fate might seem a little Stones-by-numbers. However, a different lead guitarist, fantastic vocals AND the bridge makes the song more than that, imo.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: November 15, 2013 16:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
First and foremost HN is a rock track, but with a funky rhythm, and also with a caribbean twist. With that kind of punch (listen to the drums and the hard-rocking groove!).

I agree that Hand Of Fate might seem a little Stones-by-numbers. However, a different lead guitarist, fantastic vocals AND the bridge makes the song more than that, imo.

I am listening to HN right now, and I agree your description comes closer to what it is than mine. However, it's still quite tedious to me.

Mick Jagger's voice sounds good on the entire album, and Hand Of Fate is certainly listenable, despite being based on that riff again. I agree it beats a lot of later IV/I riff tracks yet to come.

Meanwhile, I have arrived to Melody, and I am quite amazed so many people on this forum don't like that song. Such a nice groove, a delicious piano, and Mick Jagger making fun of the entire universe, with a huge tongue in cheek.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: November 15, 2013 16:47

Quote
matxil

Meanwhile, I have arrived to Melody, and I am quite amazed so many people on this forum don't like that song. Such a nice groove, a delicious piano, and Mick Jagger making fun of the entire universe, with a huge tongue in cheek.

Yep, Jagger and Billy are doing a quite nice job here. Best song of the entire album which I would overall qualify as: musically beneath average, but fantastic sound and production! grinning smiley

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 15, 2013 16:52

Quote
matxil
Quote
DandelionPowderman
First and foremost HN is a rock track, but with a funky rhythm, and also with a caribbean twist. With that kind of punch (listen to the drums and the hard-rocking groove!).

I agree that Hand Of Fate might seem a little Stones-by-numbers. However, a different lead guitarist, fantastic vocals AND the bridge makes the song more than that, imo.

I am listening to HN right now, and I agree your description comes closer to what it is than mine. However, it's still quite tedious to me.

Mick Jagger's voice sounds good on the entire album, and Hand Of Fate is certainly listenable, despite being based on that riff again. I agree it beats a lot of later IV/I riff tracks yet to come.

Meanwhile, I have arrived to Melody, and I am quite amazed so many people on this forum don't like that song. Such a nice groove, a delicious piano, and Mick Jagger making fun of the entire universe, with a huge tongue in cheek.

thumbs up

The thing with Melody is that it is so similar to this one:




Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: November 15, 2013 17:05

Quote
DandelionPowderman

The thing with Melody is that it is so similar to this one:

Wow! Yes, you are right.
Then again, this one doesn't have Mick Jagger on it, so it still can't hold a candle to Melody.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 15, 2013 17:11

Quote
matxil
Quote
DandelionPowderman

The thing with Melody is that it is so similar to this one:

Wow! Yes, you are right.
Then again, this one doesn't have Mick Jagger on it, so it still can't hold a candle to Melody.

It's Billy Preston, though. The fact that it more or less is his song, leaves a bad taste in the mouth when it's penned Jagger/Richards (inspiration by Billy Preston).

But I like it very much. This live version as well:




Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 15, 2013 18:26

Hand Of Fate is a bit too slow.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: November 15, 2013 18:58

As I have said before, with the inclusion of Cherry Oh Baby and the "inspired" songs of Ron Wood and Billy Preston, you really get only five new Jagger-Richards songs on this decidely mixed bag of an LP. Other than the excellent Hand Of Fate and parts of Memory Motel, this is not an album I enjoy very much. A little Billy goes a long way, and on Melody he is the whole dish rather than a spice that makes the dish more interesting. If the other courses (to continue my food analogy) were more sumptuous, that track would simply be a curiosity, but the mediocrity of Fool To Cry, Hot Stuff, et al, unfortunately makes this a meal I can skip, when so many more tasty ones are available for me to try.

Oh, Hey Negrita is a pretty cool groove. I will say that.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: November 15, 2013 19:03

Quote
DandelionPowderman

It's Billy Preston, though. The fact that it more or less is his song, leaves a bad taste in the mouth when it's penned Jagger/Richards (inspiration by Billy Preston).

A bad taste in the mouth? It's pure robbery at clear daylight!

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: November 15, 2013 19:21

The weird thing about Melody for me is that when I first heard it I loved it and that went on for a while. Then I started to not like it so much. I couldn't figure out why, but I think DP and 71Tele described it well. Maybe too much Billy Preston, that...and Mick's pastiche started to become too precious for my taste.

In any case, it's still a good song, but probably my least favorite on the album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 19:23 by latebloomer.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 15, 2013 19:22

Quote
71Tele
As I have said before, with the inclusion of Cherry Oh Baby and the "inspired" songs of Ron Wood and Billy Preston, you really get only five new Jagger-Richards songs on this decidely mixed bag of an LP. Other than the excellent Hand Of Fate and parts of Memory Motel, this is not an album I enjoy very much. A little Billy goes a long way, and on Melody he is the whole dish rather than a spice that makes the dish more interesting. If the other courses (to continue my food analogy) were more sumptuous, that track would simply be a curiosity, but the mediocrity of Fool To Cry, Hot Stuff, et al, unfortunately makes this a meal I can skip, when so many more tasty ones are available for me to try.

Oh, Hey Negrita is a pretty cool groove. I will say that.

You need a fatter diet.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 15, 2013 19:51

Quote
latebloomer
The weird thing about Melody for me is that when I first heard it I loved it and that went on for a while. Then I started to not like it so much. I couldn't figure out why, but I think DP and 71Tele described it well. Maybe too much Billy Preston, that...and Mick's pastiche started to become too precious for my taste.

In any case, it's still a good song, but probably my least favorite on the album.

I'm cool with the song, it's fun. I wouldn't want an entire album of this, but it's good as a onesie.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: November 15, 2013 21:11

I don't think Billy Preston would have been out of line asking for a credit for 'inspiration' for Hotstuff either........











Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-15 21:12 by EddieByword.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: blivet ()
Date: November 15, 2013 22:03

The only tracks on this LP I can stand are the two formulaic rockers. Everything else is cringe-inducingly unlistenable. It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.

I agree that the actual sound of the thing is great, far better than the material deserves. This would have been a good one never to have released, and just filed away as audition tapes. Honestly, they should have hung it up when Taylor left.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 15, 2013 22:05

That Knebworth Hot Stuff is a brilliant wreck!

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: November 15, 2013 23:03

Quote
GasLightStreet
That Knebworth Hot Stuff is a brilliant wreck!

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: November 15, 2013 23:04

Quote
blivet
The only tracks on this LP I can stand are the two formulaic rockers. Everything else is cringe-inducingly unlistenable. It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.

I agree that the actual sound of the thing is great, far better than the material deserves. This would have been a good one never to have released, and just filed away as audition tapes. Honestly, they should have hung it up when Taylor left.


Uhhhh?............dead from the neck down old boy?

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: nomis ()
Date: November 15, 2013 23:27

I like it a lot. I like Memory Motel, Hand of Fate, Fool to Cry & Crazy Mama the best, about in that order. The only one that drags a bit for me is Hey Negrita, but it still has a good feel and sound. Now, if Worried About You were on it too, then it would be awesome. I dig Billy Preston's contributions. I always liked the record cover with the photos, back when they were records and you opened it up and pulled out the sleave. The sleave showed musical contributions by track. That was cool. It was bittersweet, though, because it was the first LP after Taylor quit, but Keith and Wayne Perkins were great on Hand of Fate.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 15, 2013 23:37

Quote
EddieByword
Quote
blivet
The only tracks on this LP I can stand are the two formulaic rockers. Everything else is cringe-inducingly unlistenable. It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.

I agree that the actual sound of the thing is great, far better than the material deserves. This would have been a good one never to have released, and just filed away as audition tapes. Honestly, they should have hung it up when Taylor left.


Uhhhh?............dead from the neck down old boy?

From the upper forehead down, seemingly...

Memory Motel and Hey Negrita cringeworthy???

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: blivet ()
Date: November 16, 2013 00:37

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
blivet
The only tracks on this LP I can stand are the two formulaic rockers. Everything else is cringe-inducingly unlistenable. It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.

I agree that the actual sound of the thing is great, far better than the material deserves. This would have been a good one never to have released, and just filed away as audition tapes. Honestly, they should have hung it up when Taylor left.


Uhhhh?............dead from the neck down old boy?

From the upper forehead down, seemingly...

Memory Motel and Hey Negrita cringeworthy???

Yes, they're just embarrassing, frankly. And "Cherry Oh Baby" just makes me want to kill Mick and Keith. Keith last, since it was probably his idea and I want him to suffer longest. God, the more I think of it, the more I can't get over what an awful album Black and Blue is. Even the two barely acceptable rockers aren't as good as, say, Bad Company's stuff from around the same period. If I ever meet Jagger I'm going to ask for my money back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-16 00:38 by blivet.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: November 16, 2013 00:53

Quote
matxil
Quote
DandelionPowderman
First and foremost HN is a rock track, but with a funky rhythm, and also with a caribbean twist. With that kind of punch (listen to the drums and the hard-rocking groove!).

I agree that Hand Of Fate might seem a little Stones-by-numbers. However, a different lead guitarist, fantastic vocals AND the bridge makes the song more than that, imo.

I am listening to HN right now, and I agree your description comes closer to what it is than mine. However, it's still quite tedious to me.

Mick Jagger's voice sounds good on the entire album, and Hand Of Fate is certainly listenable, despite being based on that riff again. I agree it beats a lot of later IV/I riff tracks yet to come.

.


the Hand of Fate riff is a hoot to play , it sounds great!

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: Jon Lasaa ()
Date: November 16, 2013 01:19

Hi all.

I definetely love the guitars on Hand of Fate.
One of my favourite themes.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: moonlightaffair ()
Date: November 16, 2013 01:23

Quote
blivet
It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.


Agree. thumbs up

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: November 16, 2013 03:34

Quote
moonlightaffair
Quote
blivet
It makes the two previous releases look like masterpieces, especially Goats Head Soup, in retrospect a really solid piece of work.


Agree. thumbs up

Who needs a retro perspective to see that GHS is solid?
I could 'see' and hear that when I was 13 when it came out.......

And Black & Blue is just sweet...........maybe you'll catch up when you get your next retro perspective in a few more years.......smoking smiley

I made a cdr of my favs off GHS & B&B with Waiting on a friend, Tops (Started in GHS sessions) and Slave, Worried about you and Start me up (Started in B & B sessions)........fantastic on shuffle .........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-16 04:17 by EddieByword.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: November 16, 2013 17:13

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
71Tele
As I have said before, with the inclusion of Cherry Oh Baby and the "inspired" songs of Ron Wood and Billy Preston, you really get only five new Jagger-Richards songs on this decidely mixed bag of an LP. Other than the excellent Hand Of Fate and parts of Memory Motel, this is not an album I enjoy very much. A little Billy goes a long way, and on Melody he is the whole dish rather than a spice that makes the dish more interesting. If the other courses (to continue my food analogy) were more sumptuous, that track would simply be a curiosity, but the mediocrity of Fool To Cry, Hot Stuff, et al, unfortunately makes this a meal I can skip, when so many more tasty ones are available for me to try.

Oh, Hey Negrita is a pretty cool groove. I will say that.

You need a fatter diet.

Nah, I used to eat everything, and now I put a lot more thought into what I consume. It's healthier.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Date: November 16, 2013 17:37

I'm sure some good guitar playing and singing won't grow a paunch on you...

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: November 16, 2013 18:19

Black and Blue is never far...its a "go to"
'feel good" record...its got groove, funk, rock, crazy good guitar and melancholy all in one...and then there's Crazy Mamma.....

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: November 16, 2013 18:30

Black & Blue is OK. Some decent tracks, some so-so. I find it difficult to enthuse over the album, when it's a an era, Stones-wise, that holds little interest for me. For arguments sake: Hot Stuff, Hand Of Fate and Crazy Mama are decent-enough. Memory Motel is a bit gooey, though I hear the goodness. The rest if throwaway fodder.

Re: Black and Blue, great LP
Posted by: JC21769 ()
Date: November 16, 2013 18:49

To me the album showed a band in transition. Half of the creative team was zonked out on dope. Several guitar players. only 8 tracks and one was a cover. Some nice moments on the album but to me it always seemed directionless and devoid of any real energy.

with that said though, Id still take this album over many other bands.

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