I have to admit that my close to admiration for Lennons music is not built on his being politically correct...



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Bärs
I wonder how it felt for these poor crippled children and their parents when they were mocked by their idol for being crippled. The excitement before they show, the expectations of finally having some joy in their lives. And that was what they got.

Yes, it probably felt like s*it. But I don't know, you have to consider the intent. Lennon also made all kinds of cruel and hurtful anti-Semitic (as well as homophobic) comments to Brian Epstein. But do I believe he was in his heart an anti-Semite? No. I believe Lennon picked out the peculiarities in people and amplified them for his amusement, and as a defense mechanism. Does that make it nice? No. But he was simply not a hateful person, and I think we have to view him in the larger context of who he was.

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Bärs
I wonder how it felt for these poor crippled children and their parents when they were mocked by their idol for being crippled. The excitement before they show, the expectations of finally having some joy in their lives. And that was what they got.

Exactly. Disgusts me.

Well you can almost look at Lennon as being the first 'Monthy Pyton'...If it can help...Humor it's called...

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I think our behaviour shows what kind of person we are, it's not more complicated than that. I might think something, but we don't necessarily say it if hurts other people. To explitcly and in public attack minorities that are already in a defensless position, like crippled children, for the benefit of his own enjoyment, shows a clear sadistic streak in his persona. To have high ideals, like talking about world peace, means nothing if you can't even translate those ideals to a decent everyday behaviour.

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Bärs
I think our behaviour shows what kind of person we are, it's not more complicated than that. I might think something, but we don't necessarily say it if hurts other people. To explitcly and in public attack minorities that are already in a defensless position, like crippled children, for the benefit of his own enjoyment, shows a clear sadistic streak in his persona. To have high ideals, like talking about world peace, means nothing if you can't even translate those ideals to a decent everyday behaviour.

Wow! I can't believe that someone dug out such an old thing and it actually started a discussion It's funny how little common sense some people have to really wonder if Lennon was making fun of handicapped, if he was immature etc. What's next? Let's start a thread about Lennon's comment about Beatles being bigger than Jesus, shall we? Or maybe is Paul really dead? Don't you really have better things to discuss?

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franzk
Wow! I can't believe that someone dug out such an old thing and it actually started a discussion It's funny how little common sense some people have to really wonder if Lennon was making fun of handicapped, if he was immature etc. What's next? Let's start a thread about Lennon's comment about Beatles being bigger than Jesus, shall we? Or maybe is Paul really dead? Don't you really have better things to discuss?

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I must admit that would have a hard time listening to the Stones if they behaved the same way. I'm sure Brian would have laughed himself unconscious at Lennon's joke, but then Brian was a minor component in the group.

True. Brian was the talanted one...

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Bärs
I'm sure Brian would have laughed himself unconscious at Lennon's joke, but then Brian was a minor component in the group.

Brian and Keith would most likely do that if they were in the mood. Judging from photos they seem to have had a lot of fun together in their own immature way.

I don't get the "Brian=minor component" at all. He was just as important for the Stones as the other members during his time in the band.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-01 11:31 by tonterapi.

He's just jelous at Dylan and Simon...

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franzk
Wow! I can't believe that someone dug out such an old thing and it actually started a discussion It's funny how little common sense some people have to really wonder if Lennon was making fun of handicapped, if he was immature etc. What's next? Let's start a thread about Lennon's comment about Beatles being bigger than Jesus, shall we? Or maybe is Paul really dead? Don't you really have better things to discuss?

No...............Not much happening in Stonesland.

Funny how Lennon always can be defended for the bad things he did, while McCartney get personal slaps everytime he just opens mouth...

Good point Blueranger. I think Paul will never escape the image of the early 70's. The silly love songs and trying to claim leadership of The Beatles, so it was rumored. On the other hand John won the hearts of millions with his songs and personal actions like protest and kicking heroin (cold turkey). Paul did some great work but it's been spread out over many years. John only had 10 years of solo activity, but with a few great albums he's made a lasting impression. I never gave any attention to his handicap antics. Only thought he was trying to be funny. Indeed times have changed. Maybe for the better, sometimes I'm not so sure.

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71Tele
Personally, I have plenty to deal with regarding my own faults that it leaves little time for judging the parenting or drug habits of musicians. A young man in his 20s is handed the world - literally - and doesn't conduct himself as a perfect father or husband? Not making excuses, just seems it's pretty easy to view it from the comfort of our living rooms and laptops and make judgments.

VERY well put 71Tele. Good to see not all the IORR members with brains have left (even though too many have). Amazing how the board starts sounding like tired old house wives with dead batteries in their vibrators - you have nothing else to THINK about then what John Lennon did/said half a century ago? Especially you akgameboy - what are you? 13 years old? Not over 18, that's for sure.

For all you big mouth criticizers who can judge so quickly and easily why don't you watch/listen to the following clip by someone who been there/done that."NOBODY KNOWS ME AND I DON'T KNOW THEM !!""LIFE'S TOO SHORT" - Bob Dylan So here it is from someone who should know. One of the most honest and angry interviews I've ever seen by one of the most famous people in the world. All you bored Housewives can learn something here (go find something positive to do instead of just JUDGING and POINTING FINGERS) -





BTW, on that "@#$%& THING" a few clips back. Did ANYBODY stop to think that maybe they were making fun of him? You know, the Nazi's did quite a little number on London (and beyond) during WWII. Just a thought for our American friends that are known to lack knowledge of any and all - excluding Jesus - World History (I'm American so I know what I speak of - see it ALL THE TIME - World History? Huh?). Watch the Dylan clip and learn something for a change. BLAH BLAH BLAH

I expressed my disliking of this thing in the other thread, but I never thouhgt he was making fun of the handicapped. I think he was generally making fun of the fans going insane during the gig. I find that pretty tasteless (eventhoug I can somehow understand it and if he did it only once, I would think it was a bad joke, a mistake, nothing else). It would be much worse if he was making fun of the handicaped. But I dont believe that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-01 14:36 by Happy24.

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Bärs
I wonder how it felt for these poor crippled children and their parents when they were mocked by their idol for being crippled. The excitement before they show, the expectations of finally having some joy in their lives. And that was what they got.

Huh? the antics in the video that was posted weren't done in front of 'crippled children'..

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franzk
Wow! I can't believe that someone dug out such an old thing and it actually started a discussion It's funny how little common sense some people have to really wonder if Lennon was making fun of handicapped, if he was immature etc. What's next? Let's start a thread about Lennon's comment about Beatles being bigger than Jesus, shall we? Or maybe is Paul really dead? Don't you really have better things to discuss?

You're right. We should probably be discussing how many days remain until the Stones 50th anniversary.

How many is it?

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tatters
We should probably be discussing how many days remain until the Stones 50th anniversary.

...or until The Beatles reunion? :-) (Just to stay on topic in this OT :-) )

On the top John Lennon
Second George Harrison
Third row: Paul McCartney
and then Ringo the 4th

With this in hand is Paul gonna go before Ringo?

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Let's not forget about their music. The Beatles were really ahead of their time, this clip proves it:





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They really look like morans in those suites...

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Sleepy City
Check out the opening sequence of the Rolling Stones "Gather No Moss" Pathe colour film & you'll see Brian doing a "spastic" walk...

Like Sleepy said, Brian did the same thing. Maybe it didnt get documented as much but I'm sure this wasnt the only time! I often wonder if it's just some sort of British thing because you see cripples and morons being ridiculed in alot of Brit comedies...

Let he who hasn't made fun of someone cast the first "Stone".

Not saying it's right (or even okay). Just saying, all of us have done it - just not in front of millions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-01 16:58 by Elmo Lewis.

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franzk
What's next? Let's start a thread about Lennon's comment about Beatles being bigger than Jesus, shall we?

Good topic, but it's already been discussed here many times.

I'm not a fan particularly but as a general rule, we shouldn't speak ill of the dead. He is not here to defend himself.

As someone who suffers from a form of Cerebal Palsy - though be it, thankfully fairly minor - I found it upsetting when first becoming aware of Lennon's quips in A Spanner In The Works and his impressions on stage. However, I'm sure this attitude was not upheld as he grew older - saying that, he was doing these cruel impressions aged 25! - and I have learnt to separate the man from the music.