Quote
Bärs
I must admit that would have a hard time listening to the Stones if they behaved the same way.

Well they did so yah better stop listening. ><

As Paul Grew and John staid the same, the Beatles got better and better. My favorite album is their last and then work your way down. That said, like Mick and Keith they were best together.

So Bars you think the stones were model citizens? Funny shit!

Quote
whitem8
He did pee on some nuns while in Hamburg. I did a tour and they took us to the balcony where he did the deed!

Somehow, I don't think that balcony will ever be on my tourist attractions bucket list. I would like to go to London for a couple weeks, though. Spend one week doing the traditional tourist stuff and the other week checking out various rock and roll landmarks.

Quote
His Majesty
The stones mocked cripples etc too and a whole lot worse as have a lot of people in their less mature years.

Perhaps, but Lennon himself was still doing impressions into his mid-20's - IMO, the sign of someone who slightly retarded themselves. I have nothing but loathing for adults those who mock the less fortunate. There is a difference between an adolescent giggling out of awkwardness and a guy in his 20's who really should know better.

Quote
tatters

Quote
whitem8
He did pee on some nuns while in Hamburg. I did a tour and they took us to the balcony where he did the deed!

Somehow, I don't think that balcony will ever be on my tourist attractions bucket list. I would like to go to London for a couple weeks, though. Spend one week doing the traditional tourist stuff and the other week checking out various rock and roll landmarks.

Yeah, it was one of the most bizzar tours I have ever taken. It was pretty good. I was met by a guy who looked like Nosferatu...he was raised in the Rieperbhan. He had a little folder with pictures and articles and took us around to all the sites, to the Casba, Indra, Kieserkeller, to the door where the cover of Rock and Roll was taken, and to the balcony, etc... and then some beers and just some talking. It was pretty cool.

Quote
Big Al

Quote
His Majesty
The stones mocked cripples etc too and a whole lot worse as have a lot of people in their less mature years.

Perhaps, but Lennon himself was still doing impressions into his mid-20's - IMO, the sign of someone who slightly retarded themselves. I have nothing but loathing for adults those who mock the less fortunate. There is a difference between an adolescent giggling out of awkwardness and a guy in his 20's who really should know better.

20's is still not so mature years imo. Beatles, Stones yadda yadda both as bad as each other.

If we could only go back to pre-political correctness we'd all be a lot better off!!!

My daughter is vision impaired severely and if he made fun of her I'd punch his lights out! Guess I don't have to worry about that.

I think Lennon's whole make up as a person was to be erratic and unpredictable. Those early years of the Beatles fame when they pretty much dressed the same and had the same haircuts, in addition to being witty and amiable in terms of what they said in interviews, masked much of John's individuality, and sometimes abrasiveness, at that time, although his sharp wit did come through, but perhaps in a more pleasing way. There was an outwards appearance of conformality. However, there are still brief examples of him appearing distasteful, as in his visual reference to the handicapped. My opinion is Lennon was a deeply insecure individual himself, and he off loaded many of his hang ups by appearing pretty wacky and occasionally insensitive. Looking back at the Beatles early years, from their debut through 1964, it is clear, although McCartney had a sizeable input within what the Beatles were recording, John was very much the voice of the Beatles. His vocals were the ones most associated with the Beatles sound. Beginning in 1965, and especially after McCartney's recording of 'Yesterday', slowly that perception began to change. Personally, i think Lennon benefitted from McCartney's influence greatly post 1965, because McCartney, while not being the true genius of the group in my opinion, was actually the Beatle who was the most disciplined, and dedicated, with the greatest work ethic, in terms of writing songs, and to consistently feel the need to move forward. It was pretty much Paul who encouraged John to keep writing, as John felt strongly that he may be eclipsed by McCartney's dedication to keep producing. However, it was Lennon's input that made the Beatles truly great. It is perhaps unfair on the others to give John credit as being the true genius behind the Beatles, because McCartney contributed some of their best songs, yet without Lennon's eccentricity, and harder edge, McCartney, in his solo career, has recorded mainly insubstantial songs with pretty much a hollow centre. The melodic touches may be there, plus the pleasing sentiments, but his output has overall appeared soft to the core. Meanwhile, while John had been less consistent solo wise, when he had been good, as with the 'Plastic Ono Band' and 'Imagine' albums, he had still managed to produce work comparable to the standards set by the Beatles. What i like about John's early solo albums is they are less produced. As great as 'Abbey Road' for example, is, i always felt it suffered from being a little too overproduced. Truth is, i think an album like 'Plastic Ono Band', and to a degree 'Imagine' in places, puts Lennon's work on a higher plane, certainly emotionally, than anything recorded by the other former Beatles, or for that matter the Stones also. Maybe at times some of Dylan's stuff may compare a little. However, it was John's insecurities, and his willingness to share them, that puts him in a league of his own. He was erratic, perhaps insensitive, or maybe very sensitive at times, grossly naive, and even a little self obsessed, but he was always willing to share his feelings. 'Plastic Ono Band' is harrowing in a way very few albums have managed to be, within its honesty. It certainly sounded nothing like an album designed purely to fulfill a contract. Lou Reed with 'Berlin' recorded an equally harrowing piece of work, but it was never autobiographical, he hid behind other characters in a way that never revealed much about his own life.

However, the 'Saint' John icon often portrayed immediately after John death was incredibly misquided, and just shows how when someone dies in such a brutal way, a level of romantic idealism takes over. Lennon's whole life was actually pretty much about exposing his imperfections, and he was not above appearing pretty hypocritical at times. That perhaps to a degree warmed him to many. He rarely gave a dull interview.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 09:56 by Edward Twining.

Quote
Edward Twining
... McCartney, in his solo career, has recorded mainly insubstantial songs with pretty much a hollow centre.

Another Day is great; probably the best song by any solo Beatle. I would be very hesitant to dismiss McCartney as lightweight on the ground of it. I think they all were not that interesting, but they did occasionally come up wth an interesting song, and more importantly they all became more mature, McCartney included.

this is what John thought of it:

'The only thing you done was yesterday
And since you're gone you're just another day
'



2 1 2 0

Quote
Come On
this is what John thought of it:

'The only thing you done was yesterday
And since you're gone you're just another day
'

Jealous guy.

Both of them was obviously performing with their wifes during a couple of years in the beginning of the seventies...not hip!

George was the man after the Beatles split...



2 1 2 0



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 09:35 by Come On.

Quote
Come On
Both of them was obviously performing with their wifes during a couple of years in the beginning of the seventies...not hip!

Relationships often seem to be a problem in rock. What should you write about when you're happily married?! But it's a great song; Lennon must have thought so too, certainly from a technical perspective.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 09:59 by lsbz.

Quote
Come On
Both of them was obviously performing with their wifes during a couple of years in the beginning of the seventies...not hip!

George was the man after the Beatles split...

Yes, for exactly one album.

Quote
Edward Twining
... McCartney, in his solo career, has recorded mainly insubstantial songs with pretty much a hollow centre.

as a young kid growing up in the 70's (born 1967) paul mccartney (and wings) was the only beatle i knew of. didn't know who john lennon or george harrison was , ringo i seen in movies and tv shows and ads. seemed like everywhere i went , someone had a copy of band on the run or wings at the speed of sound albums

Paul was probably the one that sold most LPs of the 4 former beatle in the seventies...First solo ablum I appreciate from Paul is 'Tug of War', and probably because the murder of Lennon...

2 1 2 0

Quote
71Tele

Quote
Come On
Both of them was obviously performing with their wifes during a couple of years in the beginning of the seventies...not hip!

George was the man after the Beatles split...

Yes, for exactly one album.

Not really tele...George was probably the most successful Beatle for a bit after the break up. All Things Must Pass MASSIVE. Then Bangladesh. Then Living in A Material World another huge seller. Add onto that all the other stuff he was playing on, he was really out there. Things began to sour with Dark Horse and the subsequent tour. And his albums began to do less and less well on the charts. A few hits, Crackerbox Palace, and 33 1/3 did pretty well. After George Harrison (album), which was also pretty successful, there was Gone Tropo that didn't even chart. Then bam! Back in the saddle with Cloud Nine. Another massive Harrison album.
Anyhow, from 70-73 he was the man!

Quote
lsbz

Quote
Edward Twining
... McCartney, in his solo career, has recorded mainly insubstantial songs with pretty much a hollow centre.

Another Day is great; probably the best song by any solo Beatle. I would be very hesitant to dismiss McCartney as lightweight on the ground of it. I think they all were not that interesting, but they did occasionally come up wth an interesting song, and more importantly they all became more mature, McCartney included.

You should have used Maybe I'm Amazed as an example. Another Day is pablum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 15:03 by tatters.

Let's just make it a felony to crack jokes altoghether and the world would be a much better place. I guess
I'd miss Dave Letterman's top ten list if that was to happen, and Monty Python and.....

Quote
Come On
this is what John thought of it:

'The only thing you done was yesterday
And since you're gone you're just another day
'

And this is what Paul thought of John at the time.

Quote
whitem8

Quote
71Tele

Quote
Come On
Both of them was obviously performing with their wifes during a couple of years in the beginning of the seventies...not hip!

George was the man after the Beatles split...

Yes, for exactly one album.

Not really tele...George was probably the most successful Beatle for a bit after the break up. All Things Must Pass MASSIVE. Then Bangladesh. Then Living in A Material World another huge seller. Add onto that all the other stuff he was playing on, he was really out there. Things began to sour with Dark Horse and the subsequent tour. And his albums began to do less and less well on the charts. A few hits, Crackerbox Palace, and 33 1/3 did pretty well. After George Harrison (album), which was also pretty successful, there was Gone Tropo that didn't even chart. Then bam! Back in the saddle with Cloud Nine. Another massive Harrison album.
Anyhow, from 70-73 he was the man!

OK, Bangladesh, yes. But Material World was much weaker than All Things Must Pass and it was a long downhill slog from there. Don't get me wrong, I love me some George Harrison, but I think Plastic Ono Band was a much more compelling record, though it lacked a hit like My Sweet Lord. I am talking quality, not record sales, here for sure.

Quote
tatters

Quote
lsbz

Quote
Edward Twining
... McCartney, in his solo career, has recorded mainly insubstantial songs with pretty much a hollow centre.

Another Day is great; probably the best song by any solo Beatle. I would be very hesitant to dismiss McCartney as lightweight on the ground of it. I think they all were not that interesting, but they did occasionally come up wth an interesting song, and more importantly they all became more mature, McCartney included.

You should have used Maybe I'm Amazed as an example.

It's not an example; it's an exception. I think Maybe I'm Amazed is a lesser song; I would call it almost good but not great.

Quote
lsbz
Another Day is pablum.

I psychologically never got past puberty; I admit.

Lennon was truly a genius who made some remarkable music with the help of the Beatles and on his own. The first solo album is the best rock album by a solo artist ever. It's a piece of art. He never topped that, not even with the overrated Imagine. He was a horrible person and a very interesting person. I do think he was very honest about his faults. A true artist who faded quickly after 1970 although he made some very good songs and a few great ones even as late as 1979/1980.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Lennon was truly a genius who made some remarkable music with the help of the Beatles and on his own. The first solo album is the best rock album by a solo artist ever.

How about Lou Reed's early solo work?! On a much higher creative level, and more rock, IMO.

I never realized there are so many old biddies on this board.

Quote
lsbz

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Lennon was truly a genius who made some remarkable music with the help of the Beatles and on his own. The first solo album is the best rock album by a solo artist ever.

How about Lou Reed's early solo work?! On a much higher creative level, and more rock, IMO.

Rock schmock. What a useless and meaningless standard by which to judge. Nothing against Lou Reed, but his solo work "on a much higher creative level" than Lennon on Plastic Ono Band and Imagine? No.

Quote
Bingo
I never realized there are so many old biddies on this board.

Just be glad we're here - us old biddies are one of the last groups of people it's still OK to make fun of.

I agree Tele. Don't get me wrong, I like Lou, but Lennon spoke to the heart and soul.

Now to say Another Day is better the Maybe I'm Amazed? That I can't agree with. Maybe I'm Amazed is without a doubt one of Macca's best songs that he wrote. One of his top five classics. I espcially like the live version from Back in The World (or USA). The Wings Over America version is great as well, and charted as a single.