Mr. Snow,

No insult and a lot of respect to your opinion however I don't buy the global warming issue is a man made phenomenon. Case in point, heat records only go back in time 80-100 years. The earth has changed several times since its creation-all before emmissions and fuel were even thought of as a culprit.

In North Carolina-we just experienced the hottest summer in 85 years. The record books say in 1932 it was even hotter. Did they (back in 1932) say 'global warming?

Remeber the 'dust bowl' back in 20's and 30's in the American midwest? Very dry and hot times? For a span of years water levels below average by a considerable amount and the heat was hotter than normal. Again, was this global warming?

I think there 'may' be a global warming trend going on but it has zero to do with humans and emissions. It is a sun and earth issue. The sun may be .5 degrees warmer? The earth may be 10 miles closer to the sun?

The weather goes in cycles. However, the cycles are not exact or timed.

The one thing I do know, Al Gore wrote his book and many of theories have been dispelled and he will not confront his challengers, And his challengers are scholars and he knows he can't defend his book with them. Anyone who writes a book and claims it as 'fact' should be able to defend and explain the book with anyone.
Don't you agree?

jjflash73

What's a dodgy propaganda film got to do with "peace"?


It is absolutely the height of arrogance to think the earth, continuously changing for millions of years, has somehow been drastically changed by man in the last few decades.

Is the earth changing? Yes.

Has the earth been changing since the dawn of time? Yes.

gstone-

what about 'green day'. lol.
enjoy the music.

jjflash73

There was a time when people thought the mother earth was flat. Those who opposed to that might have been called political oponents but usually when there is consensus among researcers the case will not be political anymore, but scientific.

You will be able to find professors and scientific people who can prove that smoking does not kill. They are probably paid by the tobacco industry, or they have a seere addicion or are just special freaks. These days 99 out of 100 scientific medical people do agree on the fact that smoking is killing.

You will find professors and scientific people who can prove that global warming is not any problem at all. They are probably sponsorde by the oil industry. Or they have some agenda which is of political nature. But most researchers in the environmental and meterologic and so on parts do have a lot of results that explain there is a problem with global warming. If you go to Greenland you will see that the ice is going. If you see the glaciers in Norway you will see they are shrinking.

This thread is open to anyone who want to congratulate Al Gore and his case, but please do not turn it into some sort of pro con Al Gore sort of political thing. I am sure you understand. Thanks!

Bjornulf

bv,

If you believe for one minute that Al Gore, his book and his scientists are not 'sponsored' by the left you are naive. It works both ways.
The 'left'in the US is a group asking the lower middle class and poor to trust them while they get richer buy saying 'give us your money' thru taxes and we will take care of you.

Neither side is without flaws. My disgust is that now in American politics the two major parties have little respect for each other and make the other party out to be an enemy of the country. Both have gotten vile.

I feel both are patriotic and different views. It beats a dictatorship.

I would of emailed you privately, but I am not expressing any political views but social views that are both in vogue right now until paris or Britney gets another a DUI.

jjflash73



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-12 17:25 by jjflash73.

Great post, BV!

jjflash73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In North Carolina-we just experienced the hottest
> summer in 85 years. The record books say in 1932
> it was even hotter. Did they (back in 1932) say
> 'global warming?

I think it's impossible to make any conclusions based on one's local weather. Sure, the temperature can change from year to year - without being caused by global warming.
But things like the thickness of the ice at northpole - or the growth of plants in ocean...which is absolutely needed for the fish - as food,
well enormous changes in things like that, in the course of a few years, can't be explained if not for global warming.


> The one thing I do know, Al Gore wrote his book
> and many of theories have been dispelled and he
> will not confront his challengers, And his
> challengers are scholars and he knows he can't
> defend his book with them. Anyone who writes a
> book and claims it as 'fact' should be able to
> defend and explain the book with anyone.
> Don't you agree?


I haven't read Al Gore's book - I really can't defend it. My post on page 1 wasn't about Gore....just about the threat of global warming

And of course; no offense taken at all - nothing wrong in disagreeing. It's not like we're discussing Taylor/Wood here....

Um, I'm pretty sure BV just said in the future global warming will no longer be a divisive political issue but a scientific fact and that any scientists denying its reality are not men or women of integrity. I don't see anything about Gore being a puppet of the left in BV's post.

R Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It is absolutely the height of arrogance to think
> the earth, continuously changing for millions of
> years, has somehow been drastically changed by man
> in the last few decades.


Tell that to the Polar Bears

Hi Erik,

Global warming 'may' be occuring. But the point of disagreement is the cause. I feel it is natural and not a result of emissions or other human factors. Generally, I don't believe in global warming but cyclical weather trends.
The time frames are undefined. It could be a 10 year cycle but that would be too easy, even an 85 year cycle like I posted early may be too short of a time period. Maybe 500 years is a good time period to track but unfortunately there is no data for much weather over 100 years ago.

and I think the basis of fact does begin with local weather trends. it is the foundations of reason and statistics.

jjflash73

Exactly, Adrian-L! Because they're (the polar bears) starving (due to the lack of seals, since they can't find ice to give birth on), and drowning.. Because the ice is melting. Trying to deny this is absolutely the silliest thing. And ths is not about politics. It's not about left wing or right wing, but about the future of mankind - and the planet. This year in our elections, I voted conservative (in the US that would be Republican), but I can still care about the environment, and still be able to read and understand what respected scientists have proven. We are in such deep shit, environmentally. We've never been in bigger trouble. And if we don't act - our children and the future will judge us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-12 17:46 by Angel with dirty wings.

These awards are meaningless these days. More often than not these awards (whether it be the Nobel Peace Prize or the Grammy Awards) are motivated by politics.

Maybe Gore has some good points but I'm sure there are also many points in his movie that are disagreed with by sound scientists and also scientists seem to change their mind every so often. Anyone around my age (late thirties) will remember going to school in the seventees and being taught that we were heading towards another ice age. Now thirty years later it is global warming. Well which is it?

Maybe there is global warming. Maybe it is caused by us or maybe it is a natural phenonenom. The climate of the earth has changed many times before the technology age so maybe it is something that runs in cycles. One thing is for sure. When people lecture us about global warming and then go home to their forty room mansions and fly on private jets all over the place it's kind of laughable.

Al Gore probably does more to harm the environment in a month than I have my entire life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-12 20:49 by FrankM.

More and more I understand what David Bowie sang about in: "I'm Afraid of Americans".
Ignorants freak me out.
People who try to deny scientific facts scare the hell out of me.
Global warming scares me even more.

Speaking of polar bears:

[www.abc.net.au]

A while aback there was talk of too many OT's........while I care for the environment as much as the next guy (hi George Bush!) I think this is probably not the place for such a discussion......

...otherwise the board will have to have a namechange ;-) (IMHO)

Let's stick to music related topics at least

BV has said OK to this one, as it's not political, but scientific. And it's definitely Stones-related.

This is shocking, just shocking...

Gore Wins Nobel Prize, High Court Gives It to Bush

(2007-10-12) Although former Vice President Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize this week for his work as a global-warming performance artist, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled early today that President George Bush would receive the gold medal, the diploma and the $750,000.

Mr. Bush, who was narrowly defeated by Mr. Gore in the 2000 presidential election, thanked Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito "for swinging the vote my way, and helping me to join the pantheon of great Nobel laureates like Jimmy Carter and the late Yassir Arafat who together brought peace to the middle east".

Mr. Gore could not be reached for comment as he was returning from Oslo, Norway, in a private jet. However, his spokesman said that his efforts to bring peace on earth speak for themselves.

"Thanks to Al Gore’s movies, speeches and books", said the unnamed spokesman, "Terrorists and tyrants around the world will soon lay aside the weapons of war and give peace a chance by working together to develop a hybrid car that runs on cheap, clean-burning gunpowder."

gstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BV has said OK to this one, as it's not political,
> but scientific. And it's definitely
> Stones-related.


I STILL stand by my words ;-)

Angel with dirty wings Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More and more I understand what David Bowie sang
> about in: "I'm Afraid of Americans".
> Ignorants freak me out.
> People who try to deny scientific facts scare the
> hell out of me.
> Global warming scares me even more.

Well scientists can disagree can they not? Is David Bowie even a scientist? As far as Americans freaking people out if you or David Bowie feel that way then stay the f--k out of America. We don't need ignorants like you.

angel with devil wings

Why the insult to americans in this topic. This is the crap that angers people.

your ignorance shines-China is much larger and much more a world polluter than the US. For size-Germany and Italy aren't much better.

its NOT about pointing fingers, its about communication and learning from each other to gain knowledge.

jjflash73

This is why these threads always get out of hand. I have no problem with Gstone starting the thread since she stuck to the issue and avoided politics.

There is always some ass like Angel... who feels the need to insult AN ENTIRE NATION.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-10-12 18:08 by FrankM.

gstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
This because Norway had a tradition for solving conflicts peacefully, like when the nation decided to get their independence from Sweden.


Lol. Please, Norway and Sweden were almost at war 100 years ago. This is a myth, this idea about Sweden and Norway solving conflicts peacefully. Why not include Finland? Oh yes, they were at war. Was it because they couldnt solve conflicts peacefully?
The Booker prize is the real deal, the Nobel prize is political and very PC. It has a nice touch, you get to see Madde and it's shown on TV, Ill give you that.

The idea of mankind causing global warming is a theory. This theory is not proved. Oceanographics have different theories. The idea of global warming was picked up by the Green movement and is now part of their ideology.

Everyone will admit the earth as we know it is changing very quickly.

Man made or natural isn't really the point

If we all don't make an effort and in a generations time its discovered it WAS our fault then we can never turn the clock back.

Sod who fronts it and who's right or wrong, that's pointless

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a time when people thought the mother
> earth was flat.

A long time ago, during our last ice age (the 16th-17th century) the majority still believed the earth was flat, it was a religious view. Just like the idea of the Global Warming.

Explain how on earth Global arning is a "religious view"??

Angel with dirty wings Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More and more I understand what David Bowie sang
> about in: "I'm Afraid of Americans".
> Ignorants freak me out.
> People who try to deny scientific facts scare the
> hell out of me.
> Global warming scares me even more.


Gösta Wallin is a scientist and he's not American and he's not ignorant. Al Gore is American and maybe even ignorant.

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Explain how on earth Global arning is a "religious
> view"??


This thread is a good example. It's impossible to even suggest that there may be other reasons for a possible temporary global warming. the UN report is another example. Al Gore's status is the latest.

Still aint explaining your religious view statement???

And the very worst thing you can do is bury your head in the sand......

It is exactly point-one view is one where you can be part of the solution. The other, well, you are just along for the ride until we all burn up.

jjflash73

How on earth do you get "possible temporary global warming"

What we all get back to normal in 2010 after a good long hot break????