rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many doctors on the board. Does anyone no
> anything
> > for sure?
>
>
> Have you been there?
>
> You don't need to be a doctor. You just need eyes
> to see
> and ears to listen...

Rüdiger, there is a loop running during Sympathy, that is no secret. And you could still hear it when Charlie had stopped playing.

Hi Keefed, I feel relieved after your post! Glad to read some positive feedback from the first two gigs, also because I'm aware you know what you're talking about.... I should be there for the Paris gig, and I hope I'll turn out to be the gig from which he'll start to get "better and better".

"Occasional crappy sound, hitting boner notes, mistakes, gaffs, laffs and Keef's antics are a grand part of the Stones charm, seperates them from the pack and what makes the Stones The Stones."

That is so utterly wrong. They did not, and never would have, become the Greatest R&R band in the World by having any of the above attributes. It certainly would have separated them from the pack though.

I think many here are Blinded by Love..

Even in his heaviest Heroin period Keith didn't @#$%& things up, even on an irregualr basis. He may not have played with such fire as earlier in the seventies (or later in eighties) but he was pretty well on-time, in key and did not play sporadic riffs (rhythm or lead).

BUT he wasn't in his sixties!!!

You cannot be and had been.

Keith's body has standed so many "things" that he is just used today obviously.

I will give my opinion after Paris and Lyon gigs.

>> Not even an amateur (I'm one) will stop playing in that case.
Do you really think Charlie is a drum machine that needs a clicktrack to be able to play the drums? <<

rknuth, what are you being rude for?
SFTD now has a percussion loop. it doesn't adjust itself to just whatever anyone is playing.
so if Charlie can't hear it, it is a problem. eyewitnesses at that US show concluded
that Charlie not hearing what he needed to hear was the problem that infuriated Keith and caused Charlie to leave the stage.
if you've got a better explanation, let's hear it.

3-4 weeks between these 2 pictures.
I do believe that he's got the flu or whatever, coz you can't change that much in a few weeks. So let's hope it's a problem that goes away in a few days:

Albett,

I watched the Austin DVD and Keith played the solo for Aint To Proud To be in the wrong key. And his solo on SFTD was a joke.He can,t hold any notes

I did enjoy the non stones songs but the warehouses are a bore especially when you can not improvise on the playing .


play that guitar boy.

NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> If you want stale and sterile generic perfection,
> then go see Depeche Mode.
>

Great remark. Shows that you didn't understand anything what's being said here.

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> salar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hi,
> > its 01.40 am now..I just came back to Cologne.
> > Frankfurt was my first gig this
> > summer,,,,well..what to say..I really got very
> > Mixed Emotions tonight, because:
> >
> > 1. The stadium and the crowd...placing the
> stage
> > on the sidetribune was a good idea..cause: The
> > stadium seemed to be full at least...it looked
> > pretty packed, the atmosphere was great...the
> fans
> > were into it, especially during the second half
> > and there were already no bad places cause
> > evrybody had a much closer view to the
> stage...I
> > guess approx 25.000 visitors...
> >
> > 2. I had block A2 row 1 seat 10..so this was
> front
> > line , you could not get closer to the
> stage..but
> > they left about 2 meters space between row 1
> and
> > the iron wall...everytime I wanted to go front,
> I
> > was told to go back by the
> > security...rubbish..after the Stones hit the
> stage
> > on 08.50 pm evrybody was on his or or her
> > feet...as if there were no seats at all..
> > I could hardly see Charly from my place..I
> could
> > not see Bernard,Lisa and Blondy at all, cause
> the
> > stage was so high and I was on Keith side just
> > opposite to the horn section.
> >
> > Now the show....so I had the so called best
> seats
> > in the stadium...and I got the worst sound i
> ever
> > wittnessed at a Stones gig...and I saw more
> than
> > 30 or 40 Stones gigs so far...believe it or
> > not....setlistwise tonights gig was one of my
> > favorites..but what do you do if you are not
> able
> > to recognice the songs..such as, Bitch, Monkey
> > man, even Rambler was a mess soundwise...i
> could
> > hardly hear the guitars..Micks voice could not
> be
> > heard at all..the horns..forget it..it was a
> > horrible mish mash...I dont know the english
> > vocabulary..so I explain it in german:
> > " Leute, der Sound war ein einziger Brei..eine
> > katstrophe, eine Schande, ein Matsch aus
> > dröhnenden Gitarrenchaos..Mick war fast
> überhaupt
> > nicht zu erkennen..die drums shepperten mit
> > Verzögerung....ich hätt echt heulen können"...I
> > really wanted to cry...never thought it could
> get
> > such a shitty lousy sound..
> > The Stones themselfes were in good
> shape....Mick
> > at his best...he talked a lot to the
> audience...he
> > apologized for not playing last year and so on,
> > Charly was cool...he had so much fun during
> band
> > intro..Ronni was very concentrated..he IS
> > sober...at least tonight he was....Keith, well
> > Keith...on some songs he was on..on others he
> > wasn`t..well this is Keith as we all know him,
> > BUT: he was not the keith I saw last
> summer...what
> > I mean ?..I am not sure, but he partly looked
> and
> > behaved like he was kind of sedated( sediert in
> > german)...
> > as I will go to the next Stones gig in Paris on
> > saturday I will watch him again carfully and
> than
> > I will see if there is something or if it was
> just
> > an off night like he has it from time to
> > time...although I do not mean this
> > musicalwise..his guitar playing seemed to be ok
> so
> > far...well at least from what I heard from time
> to
> > time.During Symphathy something was wrong with
> his
> > guitar...he stopped the solo and went to Pierre
> > the talked to each other, checked the guitar
> and
> > so...
> > during JJF & BS he was on fire again...I think.
> > They playd about 1 hour 55 minutes and
> performed
> > 19 songs.
> >
> > So all in all....it was , again, a high
> energetic
> > Stones show...with Jagger setting the standard
> to
> > higher levels....He alone, is worth the ticket
> > price, The the band was on fire, the audience
> was
> > hot, too....the sound was absoloutly
> aweful...it
> > can`t get worse...and therefor I could not
> enjoy
> > the show as I could , or better as I should.
> > Keith was somehow strange...and now I am
> looking
> > forward to Paris...where I will have normal FOS
> > tix...and this is my experience from todays
> > gig....being in the first ten rows is too
> > close...the stage is too high...you can not see
> > evrything whats going on stage....I mean the
> whole
> > production ( stage, sound and performancewise
> has
> > become so large, that, if you are really front
> > row, the show is blowing away over your
> > head....man kriegt irgendwie viel zu wenig mit
> da
> > vorne...besser 10 meter weiter hinten
> stehen....so
> > IMO the best place on a Stones gig is FOS about
> > 10-15 meters from first row..just between main
> and
> > bstage..this is the place to be..cause there
> you
> > get both...perfect sound and perfect view.
> >
> > So Good night so far
> > CUinParis
> > Salar
>
> Yes Salar, you're right in every word. But, I was
> row 20 which
> is 18 meter from the stage. Sound was sucking
> anyway. But I don't
> wanna write any further because I'm totally angry
> that they didn't
> deliver what they asked for...
>
>
> Was meinst du mit "sediziert"? Wie ich schon
> schrieb, sieht das wie
> Schlaganfall aus. Ich hoffe ich täusche mich
> wirklich!


das wort heißt sediert und kommt vom Begriff Sedierung (seltener auch Sedation, v. lat. sedare, "beruhigen") wird vor allem in der Medizin, z. B. in der Anästhesiologie oder bei Psychopharmaka verwendet. Ein Sedativum ist ein Beruhigungsmittel. Zur selben Arzneigruppe gehören auch Tranquilizer.
Will sagen, daß keith wirkte als stünde er unter Beruhigungsmittel...und bevor mir jetzt vorgehalten wird, ich sei kein Arzt, möchte ich darauf verweisen, daß ich Erfahrung als Pfleger in Krankenhaus und Altenheim habe...und keith wirkte vom Gesichtsausdruck, von Mimik und Gestik 100 % wie jemand der eben sediert wurde...er hatte diese "Robotermäßige" attidüde in seinem Bewegungsablauf..und ich war A2 Reihe 1 direkt vor der Bühne, keith side..und da ich wegen des nicht vorhandenen sounds ohnehin nichts hören konnte, hatte ich genug Zeit, Keith eindringlich zu beobachten.

Well...ich bin echt gespannt, wie das ganze übermorgen in Paris sein wird...zumindest soundwise weiß ich schon jetzt, daß es perfekt wird, weil das Stade De France m.E. das Stadium mit der Besten Akkoustik in ganz Europa ist.
( abgesehen vieleicht vom neuen Wembleystadiun..habe gehört, daß der sound dort, eine für open air gigs neue, Dimension bietet....im Positiven natürlich )

CuinParis
salar

It can be that he is bit (or very) down because of his mother's death...

"I watched the Austin DVD and Keith played the solo for Aint To Proud To be in the wrong key. And his solo on SFTD was a joke.He can,t hold any notes

I did enjoy the non stones songs but the warehouses are a bore especially when you can not improvise on the playing."

Two songs out of four DVD's??? And your about the only one having a dig. Nothing to do with your MT fanatism and the fact you wish it was 1972 and Steely Dan still had long hair?

i don´t think he gets sedation, that´s the least thing he could stand.
it would actually be a mistake unless he has a lot of pain, which wouldn´t mean anything good too.


has anybody seen his belly without clothes? does anybody know how fast that belly came? i saw it in berlin last year first ,but there was not much of it. then i saw the pictures from the pirates premiere, which showed a huge progress.
i am missing in between. when did you first saw it?

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nelson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many doctors on the board. Does anyone no
> anything
> > for sure?
>
>
> Have you been there?
>
> You don't need to be a doctor. You just need eyes
> to see
> and ears to listen...

Hey! Ididnt say thers nothing wrong. I was wonder if anyone know what it is-not speculations.

Were now speculating that a man in his sixties has a small belly so is now doomed!!
These threads are nothing but ridiculous. We have so called experts trying to second guess his prognosis?? Like there some liver expert? Gimme a break. We've just had IOW where there was nothing but praise?
if he fluffed a few warehorses has no-one every thought it could be sheer boredom?

no one knows what it is because you don´t get close enough to him to find out, which wouldn´t be too difficult i think, and also they won´t let us know.

we can only speculate, but it´s no longer a speculation that his condition from
40licks to now has really been going down and not just a little bit.
take monkey man from msg on dvd. what keith played last night on that song doesn´t even come anywhere close. and so the whole band became insecure not only on that song. Before they make me run was my favourite song in Hamburg in 2003, last night it was like hope he gets somehow through it.

'we can only speculate, but it´s no longer a speculation that his condition from
40licks to now has really been going down and not just a little bit. "

Eh? Try the reviews for the Bigger Bang DVD and IOW????? The BB gigs I went to were far superior to the Licks ones.
Your going on a few gigs from the start of a tour and you lot have written the man of!

salar Wrote:
..und ich war A2 Reihe 1 direkt vor
> der Bühne, keith side..und da ich wegen des nicht
> vorhandenen sounds ohnehin nichts hören konnte,
> hatte ich genug Zeit, Keith eindringlich zu
> beobachten.

cool, so we sat probably next to each other. WHich seat number did you have?

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NumberOneStonesFan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > If you want stale and sterile generic
> perfection,
> > then go see Depeche Mode.
> >
>
> Great remark. Shows that you didn't understand
> anything what's being said here.

ok, what are you saying then?

This was is the worst sound I've ever wittnessed at a Stones gig^^
I was in 3rd row, Ronnies side, 5 seats from the catwalk and I couldn't make out one guitar chord.
couldn't even understand a word Mick was saying to the audience - what a bummer.
The sound was echoing like one was beating a trash container in a huge underground parking lot.
the reason for that was
1.the closed roof, while the weather forecast had no indication for that.
2.half the stadium was empty - that means behind and to the side of the stage.
3.the stage was so near to the long side that the slapback of the walls came back early and splashed back from the back of the venue many seconds later.
4.the pa was pointing rather to the outside of the wings.

overall, the most disgusting live sound!!!!

I was so fed up that I left the building in mid set and found the sound to be much better in the back. got back later tho'.
I've read a lot of talk about Amsterdam arena, but this must have topped it.
I can't say much about Keiths playing - I hardly heared him.
He did look tired, only an occasional smile or a grin.
He always had the same facial expression - not so Ronnie. he was pretty lively and it was interesting to see Keith & Ronnie comunicate about their guitar parts in I wanna hold you.
SFTD Charlie stood up, an engineer came running, did something and after a while he was back in.
I could only see their heads, so I don't know what happend.

Stupid local security guy - Ronnie tossed a pick in our area, evryone went diving for it and so was the local security guy thinking there was some kind of hassel.
The offical Stone Security dashed forward and reasoned the local guy to stay at his place and leave the audience alone. thank you - well done.

after the encore (JJF) i got hit on the head by Charlies drumstick.
Fortunately I wasn't looking at the roof - otherwise I would have lost an eye. talk about blimey^^
That was Vic Frith gauge 10 - the person behind me grabbed it - lol.

not much fun - hope things get better in Paris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-16 02:57 by open-g.

-------
Eh? Try the reviews for the Bigger Bang DVD and IOW????? The BB gigs I went to were far superior to the Licks ones.
Your going on a few gigs from the start of a tour and you lot have written the man of!
----------

the bb dvd hasn´t been recorded this year. i am talking about his condition now.
a change in the orverall condition can happen anytime and quickly.

sorry to hear your concert experience sucked, open-g

Don't understand these threads. What would be really amazing would be if Keith was at the top of his game. At 64? with his life behind him? He is bound to be inconsistent for gods sake. You pays your money and you takes your chances. The chances of it being crap increase as time goes on. Everyone has the choice to bother or not to bother, (buying a ticket) Get real.

Oh yes that's a shame, open-g. With such a big production involved in Rolling Stones ABB Tour, why on earth would they choose a venue with lousy acoustics? Heads should be rolling for this, hopefully Cohl's head

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Not even an amateur (I'm one) will stop playing
> in that case.
> Do you really think Charlie is a drum machine that
> needs a clicktrack to be able to play the drums?
> <<
>
> rknuth, what are you being rude for?
> SFTD now has a percussion loop. it doesn't adjust
> itself to just whatever anyone is playing.
> so if Charlie can't hear it, it is a problem.
> eyewitnesses at that US show concluded
> that Charlie not hearing what he needed to hear
> was the problem that infuriated Keith and caused
> Charlie to leave the stage.
> if you've got a better explanation, let's hear it.

Being rude? Sorry, if you find that question rude.
Charlie stopped playing a while after Keith stopped
playing (probably because of technical guitar problems.
The loop was still on when Charlie stopped.

OK, but I don't wanna discuss this to death. Was just
very strange to watch in this situation.

straycatuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHY DO THEY PUT SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON YGMR ?
> WHY????????????


Because it is a great song.

JumpingKentFlash

Beast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It used to be Ronnie who got all the flak. Now
> Keith-bashing seems to be the flavour of the
> month.


I dont necessarily think its 'bashing' in the way that Ronnie used to get 'bashed' for turning up under the influence and spending more time poiting and posing than actually playing. The general tone I've detected from the first few shows has been more a genuine concern for what appears to be the man's apparent physical fragility and possible ill-health more than anything else.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont necessarily think its 'bashing' in the way
> that Ronnie used to get 'bashed' for turning up
> under the influence and spending more time poiting
> and posing than actually playing. The general tone
> I've detected from the first few shows has been
> more a genuine concern for what appears to be the
> man's apparent physical fragility and possible
> ill-health more than anything else.


That is true, but on the other hand I really fail to see how the pics where he's supposed to look bad (From this tour), differs much from any pics we've seen of him in the last few years.

JumpingKentFlash

latvianinexile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rknuth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nelson Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Many doctors on the board. Does anyone no
> > anything
> > > for sure?
> >
> >
> > Have you been there?
> >
> > You don't need to be a doctor. You just need
> eyes
> > to see
> > and ears to listen...
>
> Rüdiger, there is a loop running during Sympathy,
> that is no secret. And you could still hear it
> when Charlie had stopped playing.

Neil, I know it and I just answered it to withsssoul. The
loop WAS still running. That prooves what I said earlier.

To make a long story short, my impression at this time was
more that Charlie cares about Keith, and that he didn't stop
playing because of technical problems.

svendborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3-4 weeks between these 2 pictures.
> I do believe that he's got the flu or whatever,
> coz you can't change that much in a few weeks. So
> let's hope it's a problem that goes away in a few
> days:
>
> [i190.photobucket.com]
> eith_la_20070519a.jpg
>
> [i190.photobucket.com]
> ee7410888311798e99a553e5c3c.jpg


to me he looks worse in pic1
sorry mate
keith is not ill
he is just fine and well its keith richards what do you expect
thank god he would never read this board