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stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
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stickyfingers101Quote
TheGreekWhen it comes to the party in office I don't care a hill of beans when it comes down to safety . That is a societal issue not defined by ideology . It is a Greek Tragedy of epic proportions that we as a nation are divided by ideology that flies in the face of common sense and rational thinking . What else can we expect when everything has become a holy political war ? I do understand the fine line/tightrope that Government and Business is operating on . Should we thrown caution to the wind and re open sooner than later ? Because there will most likely not be another Federal Stimulus bailout where everyone gets a check in the mail . Everything is tied together and peoples lives and livlyhoods depend on it along with the Feds and the States trying to replenish the tax coffers as so much has been spent . As far as Vax Passports , when there is a will there will be a way for the scammers to perpetrate fraud for monetary gain . So then how much does this help or provide safety ? Maybe we should all be microchiped ? How is that for radical ?Quote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
Well, it may not be defined by ideology, but the simple truth when it comes to humanity is: what one considers "necessary for public safety" is subjective.
Thankfully, I live in a democracy for now....and, a discussion/debate about balancing "public safety" and "individual liberties" is what democracy is all about, IMO.
if that has to go all the way to the SCOTUS...that's what democracy is all about....God Bless It....
the problem is, democracy is not structured well to handle certain types of emergencies that demand rapid action and/or actions that might violate what people consider their "rights"
....Dictatorships work much better.
that's the trade-off....rapid-dictated-decisions....or slower-democratic ones.
I prefer Democracy and am willing to accept the negative externalities of that process/delay
otherwise, as I said in a different post: We can just let Vladi Putin decide everything for the world.
Good old Vladi.
Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.
I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.
Quote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.
I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.
Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?
B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.
b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.
or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.
anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.
Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules
You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.
So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.
incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.
I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.
I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.
I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)
Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.
I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.
Many judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.Quote
daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.
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kovachMany judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.Quote
daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.
Very true and that is one of the mysteries of the Jurists confirmed to sit on the highest court in the land . That once they get in there , there is no telling which way they vote on rulings . The nominating and confirmation process is highly partisan ,but when they actually cast there votes on cases before the court who knows which way the wind will blow and what the outcome of a case will be . So in that sense the court still works . I am in no way defending the 6-3 makeup of the Supreme Court , just stating my observation on past court rulings .Quote
kovachMany judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.Quote
daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.
It's hard when they isolate and cut themselves off from society . Donald Trump brought them back into the fold .Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?
jb
Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?
jb
Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.
I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.
Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?
B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.
b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.
or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.
anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.
Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules
You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.
So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.
incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.
I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.
I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.
I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)
Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.
I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.
I believe their should be a federal mandate but the reality is it will not happen for political and not public safety reasons. If public safety was the priority there would have been a lot of different decisions and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead people. Given there will not be vaccine passports (I am being a realist) I don't care what some states do because I will not visit them under any circumstances whether that is the Rolling Stones playing or any other reason.
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.
In regards to having a sign that says vaccines required to enter my house I will tell you everyone I know except one person has been vaccinated at least once. All of my neighbors have been vaccinated as well. If the venues require a negative test/real proof of vaccination then people from Florida, Texas and Montana are more than welcome in my state if they can prove it. In fact ALL my friends from those states have been vaccinated. If people are not vaccinated, they should not visit.
Based on voting history if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Voting for a fringe candidate serves no purpose in American politics. It might work in the UK, Israel and other multiparty systems but in the US you are better off voting for the Birthday Party candidate [nobodyforpresident.org]. At least their platform is meaningful.
Quote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
daspyknowsQuote
TheGreekthis sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .Quote
bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:
- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours
Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.
Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.
Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?
What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?
Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?
our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.
the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.
If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.
I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.
Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?
B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.
b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.
or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.
anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.
Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules
You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.
So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.
incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.
I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.
I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.
I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)
Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.
I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.
I believe their should be a federal mandate but the reality is it will not happen for political and not public safety reasons. If public safety was the priority there would have been a lot of different decisions and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead people. Given there will not be vaccine passports (I am being a realist) I don't care what some states do because I will not visit them under any circumstances whether that is the Rolling Stones playing or any other reason.
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.
In regards to having a sign that says vaccines required to enter my house I will tell you everyone I know except one person has been vaccinated at least once. All of my neighbors have been vaccinated as well. If the venues require a negative test/real proof of vaccination then people from Florida, Texas and Montana are more than welcome in my state if they can prove it. In fact ALL my friends from those states have been vaccinated. If people are not vaccinated, they should not visit.
Based on voting history if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Voting for a fringe candidate serves no purpose in American politics. It might work in the UK, Israel and other multiparty systems but in the US you are better off voting for the Birthday Party candidate [nobodyforpresident.org]. At least their platform is meaningful.
I voted for Nader 4x
If you see Ralph Nader as "part of the problem" for the USA (and w/ a less-valid platform than the BPC)....I respectfully disagree w/ you.
"You are part of the problem or part of the solution"...translation from DaspySpeak: "vote for Red or Blue Kool Aid or you are part of the problem"
Sorry, dude...your fallacy IS: False Dilemma
[www.logicallyfallacious.com]
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stickyfingers101Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?
jb
insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.
yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....
my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????
terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.
Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....
which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.
Quote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?
jb
insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.
yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....
my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????
terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.
Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....
which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.
Debate only works when there is agreement on truth. When there are two versions of "truth" then debate is a waste of time. Covid 19 is a perfect example of this. Not sure I see any insults by jbwelda in her comments but then again there seems to be two versions of "freedom" so there must be two versions of "insults" too.
Quote
jbweldaQuote
daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?
jb
insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.
yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....
my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????
terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.
Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....
which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.
Debate only works when there is agreement on truth. When there are two versions of "truth" then debate is a waste of time. Covid 19 is a perfect example of this. Not sure I see any insults by jbwelda in her comments but then again there seems to be two versions of "freedom" so there must be two versions of "insults" too.
Well this her is a him, but other than that, to address stickyfingers' concerns, the only kind of "freedom" I want is one in which I get to pick those to stand against the wall, and then I get to pull the trigger. I would assume you can identify with that.
thanks again
jb
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Rocknroll1969
In New York there is talk of Broadway reopening in September. I would only go to a show if everyone in the audience was vaccinated.
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jbwelda
Unfortunately, in the USA anyway, seems we are a long ways from that target and the refuseniks show no sign of softening their position.
What they need is a damn good whacking.
jb
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bleedingmanQuote
jbwelda
Unfortunately, in the USA anyway, seems we are a long ways from that target and the refuseniks show no sign of softening their position.
What they need is a damn good whacking.
jb
Charlie Manson would be proud of you, Comrade.