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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.

I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.

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stickyfingers101

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TheGreek

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

When it comes to the party in office I don't care a hill of beans when it comes down to safety . That is a societal issue not defined by ideology . It is a Greek Tragedy of epic proportions that we as a nation are divided by ideology that flies in the face of common sense and rational thinking . What else can we expect when everything has become a holy political war ? I do understand the fine line/tightrope that Government and Business is operating on . Should we thrown caution to the wind and re open sooner than later ? Because there will most likely not be another Federal Stimulus bailout where everyone gets a check in the mail . Everything is tied together and peoples lives and livlyhoods depend on it along with the Feds and the States trying to replenish the tax coffers as so much has been spent . As far as Vax Passports , when there is a will there will be a way for the scammers to perpetrate fraud for monetary gain . So then how much does this help or provide safety ? Maybe we should all be microchiped ? How is that for radical ?

Well, it may not be defined by ideology, but the simple truth when it comes to humanity is: what one considers "necessary for public safety" is subjective.

Thankfully, I live in a democracy for now....and, a discussion/debate about balancing "public safety" and "individual liberties" is what democracy is all about, IMO.

if that has to go all the way to the SCOTUS...that's what democracy is all about....God Bless It....

the problem is, democracy is not structured well to handle certain types of emergencies that demand rapid action and/or actions that might violate what people consider their "rights"

....Dictatorships work much better.

that's the trade-off....rapid-dictated-decisions....or slower-democratic ones.

I prefer Democracy and am willing to accept the negative externalities of that process/delay

otherwise, as I said in a different post: We can just let Vladi Putin decide everything for the world.

Good old Vladi.

Very well stated. Simply, Democracy is messy. And, eventually, it fails. Ours is now failing...

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.

I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.

Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?

B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.

b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.

or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.

anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.

Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules

You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.

So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.

incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.

I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.

I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.

I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)

Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.

I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-06 22:09 by stickyfingers101.

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.

I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.

Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?

B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.

b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.

or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.

anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.

Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules

You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.

So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.

incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.

I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.

I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.

I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)

Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.

I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.

I believe their should be a federal mandate but the reality is it will not happen for political and not public safety reasons. If public safety was the priority there would have been a lot of different decisions and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead people. Given there will not be vaccine passports (I am being a realist) I don't care what some states do because I will not visit them under any circumstances whether that is the Rolling Stones playing or any other reason.

The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

In regards to having a sign that says vaccines required to enter my house I will tell you everyone I know except one person has been vaccinated at least once. All of my neighbors have been vaccinated as well. If the venues require a negative test/real proof of vaccination then people from Florida, Texas and Montana are more than welcome in my state if they can prove it. In fact ALL my friends from those states have been vaccinated. If people are not vaccinated, they should not visit.

Based on voting history if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Voting for a fringe candidate serves no purpose in American politics. It might work in the UK, Israel and other multiparty systems but in the US you are better off voting for the Birthday Party candidate [nobodyforpresident.org]. At least their platform is meaningful.

Speaking of California...things continue to be looking up more and more each day. I started to feel a personal sense of relief two weeks ago when my wife and I had the last of our vaccine shots, but now reading all the positive news brings even more a sense of relief. It's been a long/weird year, and though the pandemic is far from over, hoping we can continue the march forward along with every other state and country in the world.

From the Associated Press:

LA, San Francisco lead California business reopening pace
By BRIAN MELLEY and JANIE HAR

The Golden State

LOS ANGELES (AP) — San Francisco has largely beaten the coronavirus pandemic by avoiding it, while Los Angeles was nearly beaten by it during a deadly winter surge. But both emerged simultaneously Tuesday as the first urban areas in California to reach the least-restrictive tier for businesses to reopen. California’s signature cities met infection and vaccine thresholds to allow indoor bars to welcome people again, larger crowds to cheer on Major League Baseball’s Dodgers and Giants, and expanded capacity at restaurants, movie theaters, amusement parks, gyms and other establishments. It’s a remarkable turnaround for LA considering it was ground zero for infections and deaths when California was the nation’s epicenter of the virus outbreak just a few months ago. “It was horrible,” John Pryor said Sunday after one of his few outings at the recently reopened Angeleno Wine Co. near downtown LA. “It’s crazy that we were in the worst place in the country and now all of a sudden we’re the best.”

California has the lowest infection rate in the country. Los Angeles County, which is home to a quarter of the state’s nearly 40 million people and has endured a disproportionate number of the state’s 60,000 deaths, didn’t record a single COVID-19 death Sunday or Monday, which was likely due to incomplete weekend reporting but still noteworthy. A total of seven of the state’s 58 counties are now in the so-called yellow tier, which is the final stage of a phased reopening plan before a projected return to business as usual June 15. The five other counties are all remote areas of Northern California. On a map showing the status of each county, LA and San Francisco are yellow islands in a sea of orange, the second-least restrictive tier. There are 39 counties in the orange tier, home to 60% of residents. A dozen counties, mostly in the agricultural Central Valley, are in the second-strictest tier and none remain in the strictest category.

San Diego and the state’s other most populated counties, which fared better than LA through much of the pandemic, remain at least two weeks from a broader reopening. However, the Navy announced Tuesday that it was ending some strict COVID-19 rules for tens of thousands of San Diego-based sailors. For the first time since last year, sailors will be allowed to visit public beaches, dine at reopened restaurants and patronize local bars, while restrictions for some on-base facilities will be relaxed, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported. The move comes as signs of life are returning to California streets that emptied, shops and restaurants that closed and office buildings that went dark after a statewide shutdown in March 2020. Freeways are becoming congested, workers are returning to offices, and people are getting together for drinks and dinner, much of it still al fresco style. On Sunday in downtown LA’s vibrant Arts District, where colorful murals cover former industrial buildings, drivers circled the block looking for parking spaces. Diners filled the sidewalk tables of Wurstküche, eating sausages and drinking Belgian and German beer. Standing in a line of people waiting for a table at Angel City Brewery that extended down the street, Chris Sammons said he felt a civic obligation to support businesses. “It feels like almost a duty to be engaged with the city,” Sammons said. “We have to bring LA back to life.” It was the first outing for his friend, Stephen Tyler, who had hunkered down for so long and had recently been vaccinated. “It’s just good to be out in the city again, be around people,” Tyler said. “Even this, I don’t care about standing in line. It’s all kind of new again.”

In San Francisco, business has picked up at Mixt, a popular lunch spot for salad lovers in the Financial District. But it’s not at pre-pandemic levels when lines spilled outdoors, said Leslie Silverglide, co-founder and CEO of the the chain. She plans to open two more stores downtown in coming weeks. “It seems as if people are coming back,” she said. “They’re excited to be having lunch with colleagues again.” Fear of catching the virus prompted a huge drop in mass transit ridership. But Jason Alderman said he felt like a kid on his first day of school when he took a commuter train into San Francisco when his company reopened its headquarters in late March. “Instead of feeling like a hollowed-out ghost town that people had quickly abandoned, it felt like there were green shoots of life,” he said. “I felt a twinge of the energy that used to be there.” When the lockdown order came, an estimated 137,500 workers for San Francisco companies that include Google, Facebook and Uber, seemingly vanished overnight. Moving vans carted off households for roomier suburban homes and younger people simply packed up their cars and left since they could work from anywhere. Residential rents plummeted, but now are climbing. The office vacancy rate in San Francisco is 18% compared with 10% a year earlier, said John Chang, senior vice president at Marcus & Millichap, a commercial real estate financing and advisory company. In Los Angeles, vacancies are at 17.5%, up from 13.5% a year earlier. More telling, perhaps, is that only 14% of key cards are being used to enter offices in San Francisco, compared with 24% in LA. At the other end of the spectrum is Dallas, where data showed 41% of cards being used, reflecting the different approaches to the virus in the two states. Chang said workers suddenly abandoned San Francisco when the original shutdown order took effect. He expects the return will be more gradual.

At its worst point, more than 500 people a day were dying in California and hospitals in the LA area could barely treat the overwhelming influx of patients. Overall, Los Angeles has had 11,633 cases and 233 deaths from COVID-19 per 100,000 people while San Francisco has had 4,095 cases and 61 deaths. San Francisco reached the least-restrictive tier for a brief period in October, the only urban area to do so, before an alarming surge in cases forced a retreat. LA never emerged from the most restrictive tier until March. Under the new rules that take effect Thursday, many establishments, such as the Angeleno Wine Co. tasting room, can double capacity to 50%. The small wine bar reopened to the public last weekend after being closed all but two weeks over the past 13 months. Co-owner Amy Luftig Viste said she became emotional seeing old friends reunited for the first time in a year as animated conversation flowed from the tables set among barrels of aging wine and echoed off the brick walls. “It felt like the winery had come alive again,” Luftig Viste said. “It’s just such an honor to be the place that people come to break the seal as we start to come out again.”

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 00:17 by Hairball.

Vaccine passports are a nice idea and doable in a country like Norway. They won’t happen in the USA for a myriad of reasons, some political, some financial, some regarding state’s rights, some regarding individual rights, logistics, and on and on. The Supreme Court isn’t the answer. First, a law has to be passed. The SCOTUS doesn’t deal with hypotheticals. Next, the law must be challenged in a lower court. Then that decision must be appealed to an appellate court. Then that decision must be appealed to the SCOTUS, which then, in its discretion, may or may not decide to hear the case. So the whole process would take well over a year, more likely over two years. By then, the pandemic will hopefully be under control, and if not, we’ll all have bigger problems than vaccine passports.

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daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

Many judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.

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kovach

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daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

Many judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 07:35 by curt.

>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

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kovach

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daspyknows
The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

Many judges appointed by conservative presidents have ruled in cases against them, and even RBG has ruled in favor of cases for Trump. Point being, they seem to do a good job of sticking to the facts and being non-partisan.

Very true and that is one of the mysteries of the Jurists confirmed to sit on the highest court in the land . That once they get in there , there is no telling which way they vote on rulings . The nominating and confirmation process is highly partisan ,but when they actually cast there votes on cases before the court who knows which way the wind will blow and what the outcome of a case will be . So in that sense the court still works . I am in no way defending the 6-3 makeup of the Supreme Court , just stating my observation on past court rulings .

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jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

It's hard when they isolate and cut themselves off from society . Donald Trump brought them back into the fold .

From the Washington Post:

India variant declared ‘variant of concern’ as it is detected in England

Variants

A coronavirus variant widespread in India has been declared a “variant of concern” for England and Wales by government body Public Health England in a document released Friday. The assessment was made after a “steep recent increase in the number of cases identified,” Public Health England said, with 509 genomically confirmed cases involving the variant found, most in London or the northwest of England. The document says that one of the variants now spreading in India, known by the scientific name B.1.617.2, had “at least equivalent transmissibility” as a variant in first detected in Britain last year, B.1.1.7, based on available data. Public Health England said there was “insufficient data” to assess whether the variant made covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, more severe or whether vaccines were less effective against it.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told reporters that the government was thinking “very carefully” about how to handle the variant found in India and that wherever it was detected, there should be “door-to-door testing.” B.1.617.2 is the fifth variant labeled “of concern” in England and Wales, following variants first sequenced in Britain, South Africa and in Japan from travelers arriving from Brazil. A version of B.1.1.7 with a mutation known as E484K was also listed as a variant of concern.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.

yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....

my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????

terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....

which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 22:05 by stickyfingers101.

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.

I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.

Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?

B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.

b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.

or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.

anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.

Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules

You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.

So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.

incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.

I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.

I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.

I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)

Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.

I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.

I believe their should be a federal mandate but the reality is it will not happen for political and not public safety reasons. If public safety was the priority there would have been a lot of different decisions and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead people. Given there will not be vaccine passports (I am being a realist) I don't care what some states do because I will not visit them under any circumstances whether that is the Rolling Stones playing or any other reason.

The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

In regards to having a sign that says vaccines required to enter my house I will tell you everyone I know except one person has been vaccinated at least once. All of my neighbors have been vaccinated as well. If the venues require a negative test/real proof of vaccination then people from Florida, Texas and Montana are more than welcome in my state if they can prove it. In fact ALL my friends from those states have been vaccinated. If people are not vaccinated, they should not visit.

Based on voting history if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Voting for a fringe candidate serves no purpose in American politics. It might work in the UK, Israel and other multiparty systems but in the US you are better off voting for the Birthday Party candidate [nobodyforpresident.org]. At least their platform is meaningful.

I voted for Nader 4x

If you see Ralph Nader as "part of the problem" for the USA (and w/ a less-valid platform than the BPC)....I respectfully disagree w/ you.

"You are part of the problem or part of the solution"...translation from DaspySpeak: "vote for Red or Blue Kool Aid or you are part of the problem"

Sorry, dude...your fallacy IS: False Dilemma

[www.logicallyfallacious.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 22:11 by stickyfingers101.

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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daspyknows

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TheGreek

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bv
Today Norway authorities announced the plan for the "Corona Pass", to be ready next month. The pass will give access to privileges like larger venues, concerts, travel and more. It will be secure, controlled by QR code and an app, online. It will give you privileges if one of the following thee conditions are in place:

- Vaccination ok
- Antibodies following covid-19
- Negative covid-19 test within 24 hours

Without the covid-19vaccine, you would have to test yourself every time you want to go to a concert, travel or do other activities involving a crowd of more than 50-200 people. Luckily most people here intend to get vaccinated during the next few months.

this sounds sensible and easy enough to do for the sake of safety .

Too bad the US is unable to allow anything like that.

Question: Would your opinion change depending on which party was in control of the Federal Gov't?

What if the Fed Gov't decided Vax-Passports were illegal across the entire US? Or made "illegal" something else you are in favor of?

Still agree w/ this system? Or do you only like it if they make decisions you agree with?

our Federalist system has flaws...it's still better than "One Size Fits All" across 330 million people.

the ONLY way VPs can/should become "mandatory" across the US is if the SCOTUS rules as-such....which is why we have a SCOTUS.

If it was done in a rationale matter it wouldn't matter on the party. If it was done for strictly political reasons like the previous regime's immigration policies (Muslim ban is a good example) I would not be supportive. I am good with states like California, NY and similar states having their own vaccine passports and don't really concern myself with some states as there is no chance I will visit aside from the fact that people from those states will continue spreading the virus.

I think you should look in the mirror yourself regarding the partisan point of view as well. It really looks like everything you are posting is as partisan but supporting your "party". The Supreme Court is now a partisan joke as well. It is not supposed to be partisan but with the current makeup the court is highly partisan.

Hmmm....I'm confused. Do you support a Federal Mandate on VPs or not?

B/c if you really "don't care" about other states, then you are actually supporting my point against Federal Mandates.

b/c "not caring" about other states means you....well....don't care what they do.

or is it that you want to claim you "don't care" BUT you still want to dictate their rules? Sounds like "caring" to me.

anybody visiting your state will have to abide by your states' rules...so, don't worry if Floridians or Texans or Montanans want to come to CA for the Stones. They'll have to get a VP if your state has them...or they won't have access to certain places.

Seems fair to me. Your state, your rules

You can simply choose to only patronize establishments that require a VP.....I imagine you'll want to put a sign in your front door that says "Vaccine Passport Required for Entry" while you are at it....it's your right to dictate the rules of your home.

So...between a VP, having COVID + getting the Vax (and presumably you'll get the boosters)....You, my friend, will be THE single safest Stones Fan in whatever stadium you go to in CA....literally.

incidentally, if you must know....I'm independent.

I haven't voted for a mainstream Presidential candidate since Bill Clinton 1992.

I've never voted for a Republican Presidential Candidate in my life.

I cast a ballot, but left "President" blank in 2016 & 2020. (Read "Seeing" by Jose Saramago...it's his worst book, but his worst book is better than 99.999% of books)

Lastly, if you don't want to support the SCOTUS out of some notion that it is a "partisan joke"....then don't. Your choice.

I'm not going to to validate an argument against the legitimacy of our Highest Court.

I believe their should be a federal mandate but the reality is it will not happen for political and not public safety reasons. If public safety was the priority there would have been a lot of different decisions and a couple hundred thousand fewer dead people. Given there will not be vaccine passports (I am being a realist) I don't care what some states do because I will not visit them under any circumstances whether that is the Rolling Stones playing or any other reason.

The Supreme Court has become a political organization based on the last 6 years and thus is biased. If it wasn't political either Gorsuch or Barrett would not be seated on the court. Politics and only politics account for the current make-up of the court.

In regards to having a sign that says vaccines required to enter my house I will tell you everyone I know except one person has been vaccinated at least once. All of my neighbors have been vaccinated as well. If the venues require a negative test/real proof of vaccination then people from Florida, Texas and Montana are more than welcome in my state if they can prove it. In fact ALL my friends from those states have been vaccinated. If people are not vaccinated, they should not visit.

Based on voting history if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Voting for a fringe candidate serves no purpose in American politics. It might work in the UK, Israel and other multiparty systems but in the US you are better off voting for the Birthday Party candidate [nobodyforpresident.org]. At least their platform is meaningful.

I voted for Nader 4x

If you see Ralph Nader as "part of the problem" for the USA (and w/ a less-valid platform than the BPC)....I respectfully disagree w/ you.

"You are part of the problem or part of the solution"...translation from DaspySpeak: "vote for Red or Blue Kool Aid or you are part of the problem"

Sorry, dude...your fallacy IS: False Dilemma

[www.logicallyfallacious.com]

Figures. Ralph Nader is why we ended up with W and ended up in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Proves my point. Part of the problem.

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stickyfingers101

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jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.

yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....

my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????

terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....

which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.

Debate only works when there is agreement on truth. When there are two versions of "truth" then debate is a waste of time. Covid 19 is a perfect example of this. Not sure I see any insults by jbwelda in her comments but then again there seems to be two versions of "freedom" so there must be two versions of "insults" too.

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.

yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....

my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????

terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....

which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.

Debate only works when there is agreement on truth. When there are two versions of "truth" then debate is a waste of time. Covid 19 is a perfect example of this. Not sure I see any insults by jbwelda in her comments but then again there seems to be two versions of "freedom" so there must be two versions of "insults" too.

Well this her is a him, but other than that, to address stickyfingers' concerns, the only kind of "freedom" I want is one in which I get to pick those to stand against the wall, and then I get to pull the trigger. I would assume you can identify with that.

thanks again
jb

‘Turning the Corner’: U.S. Covid Outlook Reaches Most Hopeful Point Yet
Cases and deaths have dipped, and vaccinations make scientists hopeful, even as variants mean the coronavirus is here to stay.

May 6, 2021
After weeks of coronavirus patients flooding emergency rooms in Michigan, the worst Covid-19 hot spot in the nation, hospitalizations are finally falling.

On some recent days, entire states, including Wisconsin and West Virginia, have reported zero new coronavirus deaths — a brief but promising respite from the onslaught of the past year.

And in New York and Chicago, officials encouraged by the recent progress have confidently vowed to fully reopen in the coming weeks, conjuring images of a vibrant summer of concerts, sporting events and packed restaurants revving cities back to life.

Americans have entered a new, hopeful phase of the pandemic. Buoyed by a sense that the coronavirus is waning, in part because of vaccinations, more people are shrugging off masks, venturing into restaurants and returning to their prepandemic routines. Mayors, governors and other local officials — once the bearers of grim news about the virus’s toll and strict rules for businesses — have joined in the newfound optimism, rapidly loosening restrictions.

Public health experts remain cautious, but said that while they still expect significant local and regional surges in the coming weeks, they do not think they will be as widespread or reach past peaks.

We’re clearly turning the corner,” said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Across the country, the outlook for the pandemic has indeed improved, putting the United States in its best position against the virus yet. The nation is recording about 49,000 new cases a day, the lowest number since early October, and hospitalizations have plateaued at around 40,000, a similar level as the early fall. Nationwide, deaths are hovering around 700 a day, down from a peak of more than 3,000 in January.

In the past, lulls in the pandemic were short-lived, giving way to the surge across the Sun Belt last summer, and the painful outbreak that stretched across the United States this winter.

But now, there is one crucial difference: More than half of American adults — 148 million people — have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine, perhaps the biggest reason experts are optimistic that the improved outlook may last. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths have also fallen at a time when the weather is getting warmer, which, in many places, will allow people to spend more time outdoors, where the virus spreads less easily.

The situation in the United States stands in stark contrast to other parts of the world, where many countries are still scrambling to secure access to vaccines. India remains in dire crisis, and thousands of people are dying each day in Brazil.

In the United States, even as a sense of hope spreads, there remain strong reasons for caution. The pace of vaccinations is slowing, and experts now believe that herd immunity in the United States may not be attainable. More transmissible variants of the virus are also spreading, threatening to undermine the progress from vaccinations.

That could leave the coronavirus infecting tens of thousands of Americans and killing hundreds more each day for some time. A modeling study released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Wednesday, citing relaxed restrictions and a new, contagious variant, suggested that cases could tick upward again in the coming weeks, before a sharp drop-off by July. Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the C.D.C., said, “We are not out of the woods yet, but we could be very close.”

Dr. Osterholm pointed to recent outbreaks in Minnesota, Michigan and Oregon as clues to how the pandemic might progress in the coming months. In pockets across the country, small outbreaks have continued to cause alarm. Infections are rising in places like Multnomah County, Ore., which contains Portland; Pueblo County, Colo.; Grand County, Utah; and Powell County, Ky.

“What we’re going to see are more of these localized outbreaks that are going to require a response from governors and mayors,” he said.
Editors’ Picks

It is also possible that the virus could surge again more widely in the fall and winter, when viruses like the flu are typically dominant.
[www.nytimes.com]

In New York there is talk of Broadway reopening in September. I would only go to a show if everyone in the audience was vaccinated.

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jbwelda

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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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jbwelda
>The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.


I don't get these people who complain that their "freedom" is being taken away by one thing or another, most lately the vaccinations. That horse left the barn a long LONG time ago, have these people been asleep or what? Never heard of laws and all that society stuff?

jb

insults....the proven way NOT to achieve your goals.

yeah...I don't get all those people out there clamoring about "freedom" and "justice" and all those pointless concepts....

my God...what kind of country do you want to live in? One where we DON'T debate where individual freedoms end and state-authority begins??? Where people DON'T speak up when they feel their rights have been violated????

terribly sorry if such a debate is inconvenient to you...but, that's what Democracy looks like.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you-alone don't get to determine which issues OTHERS think are important to their "freedom".....

which horse left the barn? the "Freedom" horse? Not entirely, anyway...but, it most certainly will if more people shift to the attitude you display here.

Debate only works when there is agreement on truth. When there are two versions of "truth" then debate is a waste of time. Covid 19 is a perfect example of this. Not sure I see any insults by jbwelda in her comments but then again there seems to be two versions of "freedom" so there must be two versions of "insults" too.

Well this her is a him, but other than that, to address stickyfingers' concerns, the only kind of "freedom" I want is one in which I get to pick those to stand against the wall, and then I get to pull the trigger. I would assume you can identify with that.

thanks again
jb

Sorry. I mistook you for someone else but yes. We are in agreement there.

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Rocknroll1969
In New York there is talk of Broadway reopening in September. I would only go to a show if everyone in the audience was vaccinated.

Sept 14, full capacity.

I'd go, and likely will in the fall, regardless of "proof" requirements.
Understand those that wouldn't, and is likely why we'll see some type of "covid passport" before everything opens up completely.

Money will be the driving force.
When the "what about my freedom, I won't submit to a test" crowd is dwarfed by the vaccinated "what about our freedom from getting sick, I won't go without proof" crowd,
covid passports will win out.

Cruise ship lines based in Florida may end up being a good test.
If Florida insists on their stance (now law) of no covid passports allowed in the state, business going elsewhere may help them change their minds and the law.

Major cruise ship company may avoid Florida if state doesn't permit Covid-19 vaccination checks
(CNN) — Florida's new law prohibiting businesses from asking whether employees or customers have been vaccinated against Covid-19 may take a toll on its cruise business.
The CEO of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. said Thursday it could cause the company to suspend Florida departures and move its ships elsewhere.
"At the end of the day, cruise ships have motors, propellers and rudders, and God forbid we can't operate in the state of Florida for whatever reason, then there are other states that we do operate from, and we can operate from the Caribbean for a ship that otherwise would have gone to Florida," CEO Frank Del Rio said during the company's quarterly earnings call.
[www.cnn.com]

From the Associated Press:

States scale back vaccine orders as interest in shots wanes
By HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH and TODD RICHMOND

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — States asked the federal government this week to withhold staggering amounts of COVID-19 vaccine amid plummeting demand for the shots, contributing to a growing U.S. stockpile of doses.
From South Carolina to Washington, states are requesting the Biden administration send them only a fraction of what’s been allocated to them. The turned-down vaccines amount to hundreds of thousands of doses this week alone, providing a stark illustration of the problem of vaccine hesitancy in the U.S.

More. > Vaccine Hesitancy

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

As we await the impact of China's failed rocket, here is an interesting read on the origins of the virus. It is quite long. Leading Science journalist: Yeah, Covid was developed in a lab

John McGuirk | May 7, 2021 | World News

Nicholas Wade, if you have never heard of him, is not just some random journalist. For 30 years, he was the Science Editor at the New York Times. Before that, he was Editor of Science, one of the most important Scientific journals in the world. So, when he publishes an exhaustive argument setting out the reasons for his belief that Covid 19 was developed in, and escaped from, a laboratory in Wuhan, China, it’s worth taking notice.

The whole thing, on Medium, will take you 43 minutes to read. If you have that kind of time, you absolutely should read it. If you don’t, then let me summarise the case he makes, much more briefly.

At the core of his case are three points, related to geography, virology, and science.

First, he notes that the laboratory in Wuhan was engaged in a US-funded project that involved so-called “gain of function” experiments on Coronaviruses.

What is a “gain of function” experiment? Well, basically, it is research to see how you can take an existing virus, and make it more transmissible, or more deadly. It is exactly what it sounds like. Wade notes that this field of science has been controversial for years.

To be clear: The purpose of “gain of function” experiments is not to create weapons. The whole point is to study how viruses could become more dangerous over time naturally, by stimulating and simulating their evolution in laboratory conditions. But as Wade notes:

Virologists knew better than anyone the dangers of gain-of-function research. But the power to create new viruses, and the research funding obtainable by doing so, was too tempting. They pushed ahead with gain-of-function experiments. They lobbied against the moratorium imposed on Federal funding for gain-of-function research in 2014 and it was raised in 2017.

The benefits of the research in preventing future epidemics have so far been nil, the risks vast. If research on the SARS1 and MERS viruses could only be done at the BSL3 safety level, it was surely illogical to allow any work with novel coronaviruses at the lesser level of BSL2. Whether or not SARS2 escaped from a lab, virologists around the world have been playing with fire…..

…..Researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, led by China’s leading expert on bat viruses, Dr. Shi Zheng-li or “Bat Lady”, mounted frequent expeditions to the bat-infested caves of Yunnan in southern China and collected around a hundred different bat coronaviruses.

Dr. Shi then teamed up with Ralph S. Baric, an eminent coronavirus researcher at the University of North Carolina. Their work focused on enhancing the ability of bat viruses to attack humans so as to “examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs [coronaviruses].” In pursuit of this aim, in November 2015 they created a novel virus by taking the backbone of the SARS1 virus and replacing its spike protein with one from a bat virus (known as SHC014-CoV).

So that’s argument number one, in a nutshell: In Wuhan, they were specifically conducting work to make bat viruses more transmissible to humans. What a coincidence, then, he says, that a virus originating in bats, and transmitting to humans, then showed up in Wuhan.

The second point is geographical: As noted in bold in the excerpt above, the Bats that generally carry Coronaviruses do not live in Wuhan. They live in Yunnan, in South China. In fact, this Dr. Shi person travelled frequently to Southern China to collect bats, to study their viruses.

Dr. Shi’s research records have been sealed by the Chinese Government.

What hasn’t been sealed, though, as Wade points out, is the funding application she made to the American Government for her work. And that funding application states, according to Wade:

What this means, in non-technical language, is that Dr. Shi set out to create novel coronaviruses with the highest possible infectivity for human cells.

So, there you have it. Right where Covid 19 started, we had a scientist who was working to create coronaviruses with the highest possible infectivity.

The third point is this, Wade says: The evidence that the Wuhan lab simply was not secure. He offers this, by way of evidence:

The Wuhan Institute of Virology had a new BSL4 lab, but its state of readiness considerably alarmed the State Department inspectors who visited it from the Beijing embassy in 2018. “The new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,” the inspectors wrote in a cable of 19 January 2018.

The real problem, however, was not the unsafe state of the Wuhan BSL4 lab but the fact that virologists worldwide don’t like working in BSL4 conditions. You have to wear a space suit, do operations in closed cabinets and accept that everything will take twice as long. So the rules assigning each kind of virus to a given safety level were laxer than some might think was prudent.

There is much more to his theory that that, of course, but those are the key points. He also examines, in detail, the other (vastly more popular) theory: That the virus jumped directly from bat to human, and he finds it lacking.

If you are interested in the origin of Covid 19, the whole thing is an absolute must-read. It is a remarkably convincing piece of work.

[nicholaswade.medium.com]

Great news about herd immunity following vaccination: According to a recent Lancet report, the pandemic will go away if the majority of the population age 18+ have been vaccinated.

Impact and effectiveness of mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine
against SARS-CoV-2 infections and COVID-19 cases,
hospitalisations, and deaths following a nationwide
vaccination campaign in Israel: an observational study using
national surveillance data (The Lancet - May 5, 2021)

Taken together, these findings suggest that high vaccine uptake can meaningfully stem the pandemic and offers hope for eventual control of the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak as vaccination programmes ramp up across the rest of the world.

Bjornulf

Unfortunately, in the USA anyway, seems we are a long ways from that target and the refuseniks show no sign of softening their position.

What they need is a damn good whacking.

jb

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jbwelda
Unfortunately, in the USA anyway, seems we are a long ways from that target and the refuseniks show no sign of softening their position.

What they need is a damn good whacking.

jb

Charlie Manson would be proud of you, Comrade.

From CNN:

Fauci is now under a 'modified quarantine'

Coronavirus

Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN is doing what he calls a "modified quarantine" after it was determined that he was not in close proximity to a White House staffer who tested positive for the novel coronavirus. The nation's top infectious disease expert said he is at "low risk" and tested negative for the virus on Friday. Fauci says he will stay at home and telework -- though he might go to his office at National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, where he is the only one there -- and wear a mask continually for 14 days. He is expected to be tested every day for the virus. Fauci is the third member of the White House coronavirus task force who is going into a type of quarantine. Dr. Stephen Hahn, commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, and Robert Redfield, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, are going into self-quarantine for 14 days.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

This fellow Wade is not a scientist, he is a journalist.
Looks like he favors "creationism" over evolution...

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bleedingman

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jbwelda
Unfortunately, in the USA anyway, seems we are a long ways from that target and the refuseniks show no sign of softening their position.

What they need is a damn good whacking.

jb

Charlie Manson would be proud of you, Comrade.

Quite purposefully, thank you kindly, 'rade.

jb

Im not the biggest Bob Lefsetz fan, but his most recent post on vaccine passports, concerts and corporations makes some sense.
At least here in the USA.

[lefsetz.com]

This is where business and law intersect, and not peacefully.

If you're following the news, and most people are not, at best they're hung up on opinions, which are a dime a dozen and often removed from the facts, you know that Norwegian Cruise Line is in a kerfuffle with the state of Florida. Ron DeSantis, the governor of the Sunshine State, who recently signed a "voting rights" law that he only allowed Fox News to cover, has also banned vaccine passports. But Norwegian wants them, because of the liability, because it doesn't want to sacrifice its business. Norwegian is threatening to pull all its ships from Florida, which 60% of all U.S. cruises embark from, and the resulting economic devastation and blowback from hoteliers and restaurants...will be loud and proud, just like it was from these same outlets, especially restaurants, when governors insisted they close.

Now if you want to be really depressed, you should listen to Friday's "The Daily" podcast:

"Why Herd Immunity Is Slipping Away": [bit.ly]

As a result of covid variants, we now need 90% of the population inoculated to achieve herd immunity. The variants are more aggressive, spreading faster and further, and therefore the old figure of a year ago, of 50-60%, no longer applies. But a huge swath of the American population refuses to get the shot, most basing their decision on inaccurate fears, but there will be consequences. Not only in the lack of herd immunity, but the inability of these same people to live their lives as they want to.

If you listen to Frank Luntz on Kara Swisher's "Sway" podcast, you'll learn that he believes it's just a matter of terminology. And one must listen to the pollster who changed estate taxes to "death taxes" and so much more. Luntz says we must stop calling them vaccine PASSPORTS, because the word "passport" has such a negative connotation, most people don't have passports and don't go anywhere, and call them vaccine VERIFICATIONS!

Hmm... On the surface it sounds good. But in truth would this really change the thoughts of the reluctant?

I don't think so. But it would be worth trying.

Now the last time I checked, they called it the music BUSINESS. And even nonprofits have cash running through them. And Live Nation is a public company, and just like Norwegian Cruise Line, Live Nation cannot put its entire business in jeopardy. Bottom line, if you want to go to the show, you're gonna have to show proof of vaccination. Definitely.

You've probably noticed that concert companies have yet to address this issue, because they're fearful of pissing off potential customers, becoming the "enemy." But the day is going to soon arrive, where these promoters are going to want to shove anywhere from 75 to 60,000 people in a venue, and if even one person attending is infected with covid, even if they are showing no symptoms, what you've got on your hands is a superspreader event. You can't social distance at a show. At least not profitably. In order for the concert business to work everybody needs to be up close and personal. SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE 30+ PERCENT WHO REFUSE TO BE VACCINATED!

We're about to experience a two-tiered society. And it won't be driven by woke liberals, but businesses, who refuse to put their enterprise on the line. Also, if a business is not woke to a degree, it's castigated and a large segment of the population protests against it, sometimes just with their voices, but sometimes with their feet too. This is why corporations are standing up against restrictive voting laws in Georgia and Texas, they're fearful of pissing off the majority of the population, the same majority which voted Biden into office, despite the delusional beliefs otherwise.

So now you've got the corporations on the side of the woke and vaccinated. Let me see...who is on the other side? In the past it was said corporations, afraid to take a side on anything, wary of even one phone call or e-mail from an outraged parent, but now it's just Rupert Murdoch and his apparatchiks, most vocally Tucker Carlson, who is driving his minions into the river under the banner of "freedom."

So what we're heading towards is another January 6th upheaval/uprising/protest/conflagration, when the "free" people find out that their viewpoint has closed doors to them. Yes, this is going to happen. Arguments about masks at retail establishments? That'll be nothing compared to concerts and cruises and other mass events, a battle is brewing. Only in this case, the battle is not with the government, not even the "libtards," just corporations.

Have you ever worked for the corporation? They've got legal staff, either in-house or outside counsel, always on call, ready to deal with lawsuits. Operate a business, and you're gonna get sued. Many are nuisance suits, insane trolls looking for money, and unfortunately sometimes it's cheaper to settle than to fight, but a good number of these lawsuits are genuine. This is the tort world that the right keeps denigrating. But these lawsuits are what keep the rest of us safe. In cars...all over our country. I was in Colombia and I tripped on a jagged upraised curb. The truth is unsafe curbs are in the minority in America, because the city or building owner is wary of getting sued.

But you have insurance!

No carrier is going to write insurance against lawsuits from concertgoers saying they got covid. How do you even calculate the risk?

So this is what is going to happen... More people are going to get vaccinated. Because your principles are secondary to your desires. I'll take it to the zenith, I've got more than one Catholic friend who was anti-abortion until their sister got pregnant. So, you can rail against vaccine passports/verifications all you want, but when you want to go on the cruise, when you want to go to the concert, you're gonna get one.

This is going to come into focus when the country truly reopens. Right now with so many places still shut down, with people afraid to go to even open places, the issue has not come clear, but it soon will. And then?

We've heard from the outraged public, not wanting their bodies "violated," but we have not heard yet from most businesses where people are packed tight. Concerts were amongst the first businesses to shut down, and will be amongst the last to open back up. Because of the RISK!

We live in a society where everybody believes in strict liability. If I lose, it must be someone's fault, and they must pay, this is the mind-set, not only of the liberals but the conservatives. You sue your neighbor when you slip in their house, you assume they have insurance for this sort of thing. And many people do, but not all. And the truth is the system is not one of strict liability, you don't always recover, so you have personal responsibility, however...

You can be drunk and drive your car off a cliff, but GM can't make an unsafe car that inherently puts you at risk.

Live Nation can have security at the show but it can't ensure that you don't take a drug at home and O.D. at the concert.

In other words, at some point it truly does become an issue of personal responsibility. You want to do what makes you safest. And the enterprise wants to do that which absolves it of liability, because it doesn't want to take the financial hit, never mind the bad publicity.

And the government has a responsibility to keep its citizens safe too. Look at that Chainsmokers show last year on Long Island, the organizers were fined! Don't enforce strict covid rules and the government is gonna keep you in line. Even Florida. Never underestimate the duplicity of governments, they're just run by people. Sure, Florida can say no vaccine passports are required, but as soon as people get infected at a show...they're not going to say it's their own damn fault, politicians are afraid to say this.

So, ultimately the decision whether to get vaccinated is a personal one. And what I mean by that is the tribe won't save you if you get infected and die.

As for death... Even the experts said deaths would hover in the neighborhood of 1%. So sure, you got covid and didn't die. But half a million people did. As for the long term consequences of infection...every day there are articles talking about the hidden effects, now it's diabetes.

It could be the most powerful person in the battle for covid vaccinations is Michael Rapino. And Rapino has historically been willing to hang it out there alone, to say and do the right thing. Will all the smaller promoters let him take the risk? Unfortunately, probably. But if the concert business were smart, it would form a coalition today, insisting that all concertgoers be vaccinated. In this way they would be spreading the risk/attention of said declaration. You might hate Live Nation or AEG or whomever, but can you hate ALL CONCERT COMPANIES??

Just like you can hate all cruise companies?

Bookings are way up for 2022, people are "dying" to go on a cruise. And cruises can be very cheap vacations. Which is one of the reasons why they've boomed in the past two decades, they're not only for the rich, as a matter of fact their inclusive nature at rock bottom prices appeals to...many of those who refuse to be vaccinated.

Let the games begin.

"Cruise Line Threatens to Skip Florida Ports Over Proof-of-Vaccination Ban - Norwegian Cruise Line plans to require Covid-19 vaccine documentation from its crew members and customers, but Florida recently enacted a law that bars businesses from doing so.": [nyti.ms]