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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: May 19, 2020 21:17

Quote
Nate
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
Nate

Good luck wearing that on a ten hour flight.

Nate

Yup. My first thought as well.
Won't be taking any, but would consider for a two hour flight cool smiley

I think the risk of picking up this virus when flying will be pretty low.Soon you won’t even be permitted to enter the airport if you have a high temperature let alone board a plane.Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Personally I’m not worried about flying and will do so as soon as borders open again.There has never been a vaccine produced for any Coronavirus so this virus may be here to stay.I completely understand the need to shut things down and not let health systems get overwhelmed but in some places it is now time to seriously start looking at safely opening up again.

Nate

If modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters and they're still germ-incubators, that doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence. confused smiley

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: May 19, 2020 21:21

Quote
Nate
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
Nate

Good luck wearing that on a ten hour flight.

Nate

Yup. My first thought as well.
Won't be taking any, but would consider for a two hour flight cool smiley

I think the risk of picking up this virus when flying will be pretty low.Soon you won’t even be permitted to enter the airport if you have a high temperature let alone board a plane.Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Personally I’m not worried about flying and will do so as soon as borders open again.There has never been a vaccine produced for any Coronavirus so this virus may be here to stay.I completely understand the need to shut things down and not let health systems get overwhelmed but in some places it is now time to seriously start looking at safely opening up again.

Nate

Using temperature as an indicator is security theater. I Was very sick with Covid19 but was taking tylenol so normal temperature more often than not. My highest recorded temperature never reached 101 degrees and actually I had a normal temp when they checked in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:09

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
Nate
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
Nate

Good luck wearing that on a ten hour flight.

Nate

Yup. My first thought as well.
Won't be taking any, but would consider for a two hour flight cool smiley

I think the risk of picking up this virus when flying will be pretty low.Soon you won’t even be permitted to enter the airport if you have a high temperature let alone board a plane.Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Personally I’m not worried about flying and will do so as soon as borders open again.There has never been a vaccine produced for any Coronavirus so this virus may be here to stay.I completely understand the need to shut things down and not let health systems get overwhelmed but in some places it is now time to seriously start looking at safely opening up again.

Nate

Using temperature as an indicator is security theater. I Was very sick with Covid19 but was taking tylenol so normal temperature more often than not. My highest recorded temperature never reached 101 degrees and actually I had a normal temp when they checked in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

Taking temperatures is only one tool there will soon be widespread rapid testing available.Basically you won’t be allowed to board a plane if you are sick.There will always be some that slip through the net but flying will from now on become much more hygienic than ever before.
Anyway I’m glad you have recovered from being sick and hopefully now you have an immunity to it.

Nate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:21

Quote
DGA35
Quote
DGA35
Well the US unfortunately just hit 80000 deaths with a total number of cases at 1,346,717 so still around 2000 per day since my last update early last week. At the current rate, they'll hit 100,000 in 10 more days.
Total worldwide is now 4,010,000 with 278,000 deaths

New updated US figures, now 87000 deaths and 1.455 million cases. Average daily numbers has dropped from around 2000 per day to around 1400 so that's a good sign. Not a good sign is news reports of people crowding into bars, etc. as states start to reopen. Worldwide total is now 4.52 million cases and 303000 deaths. Keep an eye on Brazil, the numbers there are starting to explode.

US just passed 93000 deaths and 1.563 million cases. Average has risen to an average of 1500 deaths per day for the past 4 days but still below the 2000 per day like it was a couple weeks ago. At the current rate, the 100k mark will be hit sometime on Saturday. Worldwide 4.87 million cases and 321k deaths.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:26

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Nate
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
Nate

Good luck wearing that on a ten hour flight.

Nate

Yup. My first thought as well.
Won't be taking any, but would consider for a two hour flight cool smiley

I think the risk of picking up this virus when flying will be pretty low.Soon you won’t even be permitted to enter the airport if you have a high temperature let alone board a plane.Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Personally I’m not worried about flying and will do so as soon as borders open again.There has never been a vaccine produced for any Coronavirus so this virus may be here to stay.I completely understand the need to shut things down and not let health systems get overwhelmed but in some places it is now time to seriously start looking at safely opening up again.

Nate

If modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters and they're still germ-incubators, that doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence. confused smiley

Unless you are sitting within a couple of rows of an infected person then the risk is believed to be very low.Life is never 100% safe of course you can take precautions and act safe but there is always a degree of risk with everything.
If you understand about numbers and know that numbers are connected with everything then it’s possible to calculate the risks and you also have to take into account risk versus reward.Travelling is immensely rewarding and if I was told I could never fly or travel anywhere again I would become seriously depressed.For me the risk is worth it but of course it’s a personal choice other people may prefer to stay at home.

Nate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:27

When it comes to statistics one has to bear in mind that some countries do not even keep statistics. And some countries are propaganda states and reports what ever they find acceptable.
So statistics won't tell the whole truth. In some cases we will have to deal with estimates.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:42

Some short thoughts: I think this pandemic will stay for a while. Maybe follow the same pattern as the Spanish Flu? It died out after two years. Epidemiologists talked about herd immunity
but seem to have changed their minds a bit about the efficiency of that. It think testing will be essential. In order to eliminate the spread of the disease.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: May 19, 2020 23:44

Quote
Nate
Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Nate
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
Nate

Good luck wearing that on a ten hour flight.

Nate

Yup. My first thought as well.
Won't be taking any, but would consider for a two hour flight cool smiley

I think the risk of picking up this virus when flying will be pretty low.Soon you won’t even be permitted to enter the airport if you have a high temperature let alone board a plane.Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Personally I’m not worried about flying and will do so as soon as borders open again.There has never been a vaccine produced for any Coronavirus so this virus may be here to stay.I completely understand the need to shut things down and not let health systems get overwhelmed but in some places it is now time to seriously start looking at safely opening up again.

Nate

If modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters and they're still germ-incubators, that doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence. confused smiley

Unless you are sitting within a couple of rows of an infected person then the risk is believed to be very low.Life is never 100% safe of course you can take precautions and act safe but there is always a degree of risk with everything.
If you understand about numbers and know that numbers are connected with everything then it’s possible to calculate the risks and you also have to take into account risk versus reward.Travelling is immensely rewarding and if I was told I could never fly or travel anywhere again I would become seriously depressed.For me the risk is worth it but of course it’s a personal choice other people may prefer to stay at home.

Nate

Well, I don't think anyone's suggesting a scenario where we can never fly anywhere again, it's just for the immediate future while this thing is nowhere near under control. Once numbers go down and there's an effective treatment and/or a vaccine, we'll all be back in the friendly skies again. Personally I'm not ready yet.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 20, 2020 01:11



THE AGE --- 20 May 2020



ROCKMAN

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Beast ()
Date: May 20, 2020 01:31

A rare feelgood story out of the pandemic.

100-year-old Captain Tom Moore, later promoted by the Queen to honorary Colonel Tom Moore after he raised a whopping £33 million for our National Health Service by walking 100 laps of his garden, is now to be knighted.

Arise, SIR Tom, and good on ya!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: May 20, 2020 01:38

Quote
Stoneage
When it comes to statistics one has to bear in mind that some countries do not even keep statistics. And some countries are propaganda states and reports what ever they find acceptable.
So statistics won't tell the whole truth. In some cases we will have to deal with estimates.

Some states in US too.

[www.usatoday.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: May 20, 2020 02:15

Quote
bonddm
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
bonddm
Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
bonddm
We currently have a total of 100 deaths in Australia from a population of 25+ million, but our media still insists that the apocalypse is nigh!

The media insist a “second wave“ is coming in the winter. I live in one of the coldest municipalities on the mainland (Surf Coast) and winter is less than 2 weeks away.
We have a population here of 33,000+, but currently have 0 active cases!
The closest city (Geelong) has 0 active cases from a population of nearly 270,000!

There's an old saying along the lines of ... You pay your money and you make your choice. That's what Australia did - thanks to the firm stand taken by two State Premiers from opposing political parties.

In mid-March we were at almost the exact same position at the time as the UK and we had the choice either to clamp down hard on our way of life and hope that we had few deaths, but some hardship on the way. Or we could carry on regardless and expect many tens of thousands of deaths.

We chose to save lives. We can work our way out of recession, but we can't bring back the dead.

Of course that very low death count means that paradoxically to most of us it seems as if it's all been a big fizzer. A huge fuss about nothing. I get that.

In Australia the News today leads with details about the death of the 100th person since the start of the Pandemic- in many countries around the world they tell each day of the deaths of hundreds each day.

Look at the numbers elsewhere in the world. This, John Hopkins University site [www.arcgis.com] is a good place to start.

The UK acted only slightly slower (a matter of days) and only a bit less harshly - and they have had over 30,000 deaths. (That's the entire population of where you tell us you live).

That's why you live somewhere where there's a case count of Zero. Be thankful for that, don't curse it!

(And as for being cold.... up here in the Macedon Ranges we've been close to zero in the mornings - other than today - for the last 4 days. That's cold.)

I’ve mainly having a crack for the media for constantly running with a “second wave” in winter, despite the start of it being less than 2 weeks away! If that was going to be the case, shouldn’t you already be seeing signs of it in colder areas, rather than the complete opposite?! Canberra also has 0 active cases.

All it takes is one infected person to start the spread. That there are no cases means you should be saying we have been successful rather than we have overreacted IMHO

Please alert me to where I said we overreacted?! I am having a crack at the media for constantly publishing stories about “a second wave in winter” containing about as much evidence as there is for the existence of Bigfoot!

Am I just supposed to take as gospel articles by our media that don’t even provide a skerrick of evidence to back them up, despite the fact nearly all cooler locales here have 0 active cases, a whopping 10 days away from winter?! They are unnecessarily panicking people with 100% unsubstantiated stories.

By the way, I voted for our current state government in the last election and every election before that, so don’t bother trying to put a political spin on my comments!

The biggest problem is that there's no real way at the moment to claim that the virus has been eliminated. That means that while there will be many places where there are ZERO known cases, there may be an undercurrent (bad word, sorry) of cases still lurking around. VERY dangerous, not least because it's well possible to be almost totally asymptomatic, also because a victim is at their most infectious before symptoms appear!

That means that all we need is one or two residual unknown and possibly asymptomatic cases to visit (eg) Torquay to go surfing, or to travel on a train from Melbourne to Geelong, (plus perhaps visiting a Macdonalds to get a meal!) and your previously unaffected area could then become a hot spot. And unless that's picked up VERY quickly and very belligerently dealt with we're back to square one.

The worries about a second wave are real. ALL of the epidemialogical modelling showed that. If you watched the press conference where Brendan Murphy showed the modelling it was present as a climbing slope on a graph of numbers, and he then stood in front of it to (I assume) not scare people.

[That line was there on the graphs. I can be certain of that because my daughter (who has a BSc in Medical Science and a PhD in same, plus she did a lot of work for the Australasian ICU specialists, spotted it as well and asked me if I knew what it was and we checked it out together). It meant that if you supressed the curve and then once cases were back to very small numbers you then released all checks... you'd be very badly off indeed.]

Strangely my perception of the same Australian media as you is the opposite. I see them encouraging people to treat the social distancing less seriously and to press for the relaxation of restrictions etc etc.


PS. Dan IS the man! Along with Gladys together they used their muscle (population) to force Scott from marketing to do something real (and not go to that rugby that Sunday! All of the other Premiers are doing remarkably well (IMHO), but leading the two largest States gives those two more power nationally than the others.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bonddm ()
Date: May 20, 2020 05:17

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
bonddm
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
bonddm
Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
bonddm
We currently have a total of 100 deaths in Australia from a population of 25+ million, but our media still insists that the apocalypse is nigh!

The media insist a “second wave“ is coming in the winter. I live in one of the coldest municipalities on the mainland (Surf Coast) and winter is less than 2 weeks away.
We have a population here of 33,000+, but currently have 0 active cases!
The closest city (Geelong) has 0 active cases from a population of nearly 270,000!

There's an old saying along the lines of ... You pay your money and you make your choice. That's what Australia did - thanks to the firm stand taken by two State Premiers from opposing political parties.

In mid-March we were at almost the exact same position at the time as the UK and we had the choice either to clamp down hard on our way of life and hope that we had few deaths, but some hardship on the way. Or we could carry on regardless and expect many tens of thousands of deaths.

We chose to save lives. We can work our way out of recession, but we can't bring back the dead.

Of course that very low death count means that paradoxically to most of us it seems as if it's all been a big fizzer. A huge fuss about nothing. I get that.

In Australia the News today leads with details about the death of the 100th person since the start of the Pandemic- in many countries around the world they tell each day of the deaths of hundreds each day.

Look at the numbers elsewhere in the world. This, John Hopkins University site [www.arcgis.com] is a good place to start.

The UK acted only slightly slower (a matter of days) and only a bit less harshly - and they have had over 30,000 deaths. (That's the entire population of where you tell us you live).

That's why you live somewhere where there's a case count of Zero. Be thankful for that, don't curse it!

(And as for being cold.... up here in the Macedon Ranges we've been close to zero in the mornings - other than today - for the last 4 days. That's cold.)

I’ve mainly having a crack for the media for constantly running with a “second wave” in winter, despite the start of it being less than 2 weeks away! If that was going to be the case, shouldn’t you already be seeing signs of it in colder areas, rather than the complete opposite?! Canberra also has 0 active cases.

All it takes is one infected person to start the spread. That there are no cases means you should be saying we have been successful rather than we have overreacted IMHO

Please alert me to where I said we overreacted?! I am having a crack at the media for constantly publishing stories about “a second wave in winter” containing about as much evidence as there is for the existence of Bigfoot!

Am I just supposed to take as gospel articles by our media that don’t even provide a skerrick of evidence to back them up, despite the fact nearly all cooler locales here have 0 active cases, a whopping 10 days away from winter?! They are unnecessarily panicking people with 100% unsubstantiated stories.

By the way, I voted for our current state government in the last election and every election before that, so don’t bother trying to put a political spin on my comments!

The biggest problem is that there's no real way at the moment to claim that the virus has been eliminated. That means that while there will be many places where there are ZERO known cases, there may be an undercurrent (bad word, sorry) of cases still lurking around. VERY dangerous, not least because it's well possible to be almost totally asymptomatic, also because a victim is at their most infectious before symptoms appear!

That means that all we need is one or two residual unknown and possibly asymptomatic cases to visit (eg) Torquay to go surfing, or to travel on a train from Melbourne to Geelong, (plus perhaps visiting a Macdonalds to get a meal!) and your previously unaffected area could then become a hot spot. And unless that's picked up VERY quickly and very belligerently dealt with we're back to square one.

The worries about a second wave are real. ALL of the epidemialogical modelling showed that. If you watched the press conference where Brendan Murphy showed the modelling it was present as a climbing slope on a graph of numbers, and he then stood in front of it to (I assume) not scare people.

[That line was there on the graphs. I can be certain of that because my daughter (who has a BSc in Medical Science and a PhD in same, plus she did a lot of work for the Australasian ICU specialists, spotted it as well and asked me if I knew what it was and we checked it out together). It meant that if you supressed the curve and then once cases were back to very small numbers you then released all checks... you'd be very badly off indeed.]

Strangely my perception of the same Australian media as you is the opposite. I see them encouraging people to treat the social distancing less seriously and to press for the relaxation of restrictions etc etc.


PS. Dan IS the man! Along with Gladys together they used their muscle (population) to force Scott from marketing to do something real (and not go to that rugby that Sunday! All of the other Premiers are doing remarkably well (IMHO), but leading the two largest States gives those two more power nationally than the others.

I don’t doubt that a “second wave” is a possibility, but it’s these lazy assumptions (with no evidence) by the media that the winter weather will automatically bring it on that really grinds my gears! It’s total guesswork on their part.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-20 05:17 by bonddm.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: May 20, 2020 05:35

Quote
bonddm

I don’t doubt that a “second wave” is a possibility, but it’s these lazy assumptions (with no evidence) by the media that the winter weather will automatically bring it on that really grinds my gears! It’s total guesswork on their part.

Automatically is too strong. But it is highly likely! The evidence is based on the highly likely assumption that this virus will behave like both the Flu virus and the common cold virus and be better at surviving in winter conditions as against summer conditions.

It's why there's a Flu vaccination available in the autumn on the assumption that it's most needed in the winter.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: May 20, 2020 07:02

Quote
Nate
Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Nate

Over the recent years we have come to expect to get some sort of infection within a few days of flying.

I know that the HEPA filters are claimed to be fitted, but notwithstanding that, I have zero confidence in how effective they are in a real world.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: May 20, 2020 08:28

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Nate
Yes of course someone could have the virus and not be showing symptoms but with all the new safety measures that will be introduced and the fact that modern planes are already fitted with HEPA filters the same air filters that are used in operating theatres that remove 99.97% of impurities I think the risk will be low.
Nate

Over the recent years we have come to expect to get some sort of infection within a few days of flying.

I know that the HEPA filters are claimed to be fitted, but notwithstanding that, I have zero confidence in how effective they are in a real world.

Over the years I have gotten some of my worst colds after flying. Granted, the flights were packed.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: May 20, 2020 11:26

This thread is now closed.

It has been great to have all the comments and reports from various places across this planet here. This thread have had 309,387 views and 4,787 posts since it started almost three months ago, on February 28. Unfortunately the corona virus took away the Stones Tour 2020. The virus will have us under pressure for still a long while. I have spent hours every day monitoring this thread, deleting political posts, explaining to people why political posts are not accepted here and so on.

The biggest challenge here has been the truly broken political trust in USA. I followed the four hours hearing at the US Congress last week. See link below to the complete hearing, and watch it for yourself. Through all the political statements in this hearing, I understood this thread would have to be closed soon, due to the lack of trust and cooperation among US politicians.

It would have been great if we could keep on talking about the challenges and experiences we have with the corona virus here. Still, that would have been impossible, as it is now. Too many want to play the blame game. Blame Biden. Blame Obama, Blame Trump, Blame WHO. Blame China. Blame the Democrats. Blame the Republicans. Such an endless number of posts about someone or something to blame. We just can't have it here.

There will be another wave. Trust me. Trust science. This is what every single independent immunologist and every single independent virolog and all health experts are saying. Be prepared. Take care. Hopefully, may be, we will see The Rolling Stones live some place in 2022. May be.

Rick Bright Testimony on Coronavirus Pandemic Response (c-span.org MAY 14, 2020)

Rick Bright, the recent director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) who filed a whistleblower complaint alleging he was forced out of his job, testified before the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Health. Mr. Bright told lawmakers he believed his reassignment to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) was retaliation for his resistance to broadening the use of hydroxychloroquine without the proper safeguards in place. Mr. Bright criticized the Trump administration’s response to coronavirus pandemic, saying the country lacked a coordinated strategy. “Without better planning, 2020 could be the darkest winter in modern history,” he warned. The former BARDA director also said his warnings about the lack of personal protective equipment in the strategic national stockpile went unheeded.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-20 12:49 by bv.

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