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JordyLicks96

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DGA35

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funkydrummer
I posted this over on the trade page...but perhaps here is more appropriate...

Having only listened to that version of Ruby Tuesday a couple of times - why can't it be a 1966 outtake? I have read here that some said, "well it is Nicky Hopkins" so it can't be 1966...
Is it Nicky Hopkins? Could be - but it is not definitive...Why can't it be Jack Nitzsche? I have been listening to the YCAGWYW session - and Nitzsche's piano there is not entirely dissimilar.
There is no way this is from 1969. I say late 1966 RCA sessions which has been misfiled - just like how a Satanic Majesties outtake ended up on Exile Deluxe - etc etc - as we know the Stones archive is in a sorry state.

But anyway, I want to know what conclusive evidence says that RT is not from 1966. I remain to be convinced.

Charlie's drumming sounds similar to his style on Jigsaw Puzzle, 68-69 era. Nicky's piano sounds a lot like on No Expectations.

How do you know it's Nicky Hopkins? You're just making an assumption it's him. And if it was from 1968-69, where would they have recorded this and what for?

There is no doubt about this being Nicky.

Supposedly, Jean Luc Goddard said in an interview that they did Ruby Tuesday for One Plus One in 1968. I haven't seen the interview myself, though.

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JMARKO

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axl79
The tone can be removed easily with Audacity, use Effect -> Notch Filter. 500Hz 20dB.

The Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - (1969 Bluesier version) wo tone
[mega.nz]

Ruby Tuesday
[mega.nz]

Wild Horses (with strings and glass harmonica)
[mega.nz]

You Can't Always Get What You Want - choir sessions
[mega.nz]

Sister Morphine - 1969 Early versioN
[mega.nz]

AXL79 these sound superior to the ones in the Olympic thread in the Hot Stuff forum here.

The link for the YCAGWYW link now needs a decryptor??

Any way you can work your magic on the rest of the studio tracks and post them along with an accessible YCAGWYW?

J

Here comes a link to WE (valid for one week)

[we.tl]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 12:41 by axl79.

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MrEcho

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His Majesty

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jlowe
Are we to assume these new releases are only copyrighted till 2039 ie 70 years after recording.
Rather than 70 years from now? (2089)

Yes.

Laws might change of course.

The recordings are protected for 70 years from the date of release.

According to Directive 2011/77/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 September 2011 the situation in regard to phonograms/recordings is as follows:

A recording must be lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public within a period of 50 years after fixation (= recording date), otherwise it falls into the public domain (in the EU). If it is released within that period (the cut off date being Dec. 31) it is protected for 70 years from the date of release. This means that the Rolling Stones' 1969 recordings from the YouTube publication are protected until 2089.

As The Guardian commented yesterday, it is arguable as to whether the European Judges would agree that posting a large number of unsorted tracks onto Youtube for the briefest of periods and then removing them constitutes these tracks being "lawfully communicated to the public". 99% of "the public" weren't even aware of them until they had gone!

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axl79

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JMARKO

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axl79
The tone can be removed easily with Audacity, use Effect -> Notch Filter. 500Hz 20dB.

The Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - (1969 Bluesier version) wo tone
[mega.nz]

Ruby Tuesday
[mega.nz]

Wild Horses (with strings and glass harmonica)
[mega.nz]

You Can't Always Get What You Want - choir sessions
[mega.nz]

Sister Morphine - 1969 Early versioN
[mega.nz]

AXL79 these sound superior to the ones in the Olympic thread in the Hot Stuff forum here.

The link for the YCAGWYW link now needs a decryptor??

Any way you can work your magic on the rest of the studio tracks and post them along with an accessible YCAGWYW?

J

Here comes a link to WE (valid for one week)

[we.tl]

What all is in there?


plexi

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timbernardis

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axl79

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JMARKO

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axl79
The tone can be removed easily with Audacity, use Effect -> Notch Filter. 500Hz 20dB.

The Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - (1969 Bluesier version) wo tone
[mega.nz]

Ruby Tuesday
[mega.nz]

Wild Horses (with strings and glass harmonica)
[mega.nz]

You Can't Always Get What You Want - choir sessions
[mega.nz]

Sister Morphine - 1969 Early versioN
[mega.nz]

AXL79 these sound superior to the ones in the Olympic thread in the Hot Stuff forum here.

The link for the YCAGWYW link now needs a decryptor??

Any way you can work your magic on the rest of the studio tracks and post them along with an accessible YCAGWYW?

J

Here comes a link to WE (valid for one week)

[we.tl]

What all is in there?


plexi

Love In Vain, Ruby Tuesday, Wild Horses, Sister Morphine, You Can't Always Get choir session, and 'early version' of Gimme Shelter (which is actually a 1978 tour rehearsal)

Thanks for these AXL79.

Hoping you can do the Sympathy, Stray Cat, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women (country rock), and Let It Bleed at some point PLEASE!

The rest of the material has been widely bootlegged or doesn't have the tone added.

Jon

wow a masterpiece of work in the transfer you did for the WAV files, thank you so much. These sound great

Thanks Blueranger for finding these

JumpingKentFlash

Much has been made, both in the press and in this forum, about the December 31 YouTube posting by ABKCO of dozens of Stones recordings, all listed as being from 1969. The purpose of this was to secure copyright in the EU and prevent these from falling into the public domain.

As most readers of this website will already know, this ABKCO posting was a bit of a hodge-podge/mish-mash of mostly bootleg audience recordings of some (but not all) of the Stones 1969 American tour concerts. These bootlegs have been available for decades and offer nothing new to the serious Stones collector. The real gems in this group of concert recordings, however, were soundboard/monitor mixes of the Madison Square Garden shows: the complete show from November 27, 3 opening numbers from the first show of November 28th and all but one track from the second performance on the same day. Although some of this material is available on the expanded version of "Get Yer Yas-Yas Out" and the deluxe video of "Gimme Shelter", these soundboards have never been bootlegged and are something close to the Holy Grail for Stones fans. Audience recordings of these show exist and have been around for years, but nothing like this in both quality and completeness.

Unreleased live recordings are always a treat. But the real payload in this brief burst of copyright control releases are the 2 dozen studio recordings in this YouTube posting.

Again, it's a bit of a hodge-podge. Half of the YouTube studio recordings have been readily available for years on bootlegs. The other half, however, have never seen the light of day.

Angry Stones fans have bemoaned the fact that ABKCO has been sitting on these tracks and questioned why these remarkable recordings were kept hidden in ABKCO vaults for so many years.

The answer is that these dozen or so studio tracks were never in the ABKCO vaults. These tracks come from the Rolling Stones own library of unreleased recordings. The Stones opened their own vaults to the producers of the film "Crossfire Hurricane" a number of years ago to select unreleased musical material for use in the film's soundtrack, especially instrumental tracks over which the Stones could be interviewed off screen. Some of the selections were used in the film. Others were not. These are the ones that were not.

This is why so many of the selections have no vocals-the vocal tracks for these versions were either never recorded or were removed for possible inclusion in the film. Also included in this group are some obviously different arrangements of familiar songs that DO have vocals ("Wild Horses", "Ruby Tuesday", "Love In Vain", "Sister Morphine" and SFTD). These, too, were on a short list for inclusion in "Crossfire Hurricane" but never made the cut.

The unreleased material that WAS used in the film, of course, is legally under copyright control by ABKCO and this is noted, naturally, in the film credits. And it's possible that these YouTube selections were also sent over to ABKCO before the final cut of the film was readied for released, just in case they were to have been used.

However, it's also possible that this isn't the case and that someone involved with the evaluation process made a copy of these rare recordings for themselves and somehow ABKCO got hold of it.

Here's a breakdown of those new, previously unavailable tracks:

1966: Ruby Tuesday-a complete, early attempt at the song with Brian Jones on piano. (He also played piano, and recorder, in the final version.) I cry everytime I hear this.

1968: SFTD-from the Rock and Roll Circus, one of the early takes, not used in the video.
Stray Cat Blues-instrumental from Beggar's Banquet sessions

1969: Midnight Rambler-instrumental, short but complete take.
Love In Vain-one of the earliest attempts at the song, similar to the Robert Johnson arrangement
Honky Tonk Women-early instrumental version, similar in style to County Honk, but a more rocking arrangement
Sister Morphine-the same early version found on many bootlegs, but this is the complete take, 90 seconds longer
Let It Bleed-early instrumental version
YCAGWYW-22 minutes of the London Bach Choir working on their vocals...lots of giggling and no complete performance of the song...interesting to listen to...once.

1970: Wild Horses-the acoustic Muscle Shoals take from December 1969 but with strings added sometime in 1970.

Among this group of non-concert recordings is a 1978 version of Gimme Shelter from that year's tour rehearsals, widely bootlegged. Why has ABKCO included this, calling it an early 1969 version? Why are recordings form 1966, 1968 and 1970 identified as being from 1969? How did ABKCO actually obtain these recordings?

These are questions for lawyers to debate. It's none of my business, nor do I care.

I will not comment further on my above statements nor answer questions about how I came into this knowledge-I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

"Are you having a good time?"

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thkbeercan

I will not comment further on my above statements nor answer questions about how I came into this knowledge-I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Fascinating post, thkbeercan. Thanks much.

I have a few questions, though ...

(just kidding).

You're welcome.

Link to some more tracks (upon JMARKOs request)

Sympathy, Stray Cat, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women (country rock), and Let It Bleed.



[we.tl]

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axl79
Link to some more tracks (upon JMARKOs request)

Sympathy, Stray Cat, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women (country rock), and Let It Bleed.



[we.tl]

Thanks axl179!

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thkbeercan
Much has been made, both in the press and in this forum, about the December 31 YouTube posting by ABKCO of dozens of Stones recordings, all listed as being from 1969. The purpose of this was to secure copyright in the EU and prevent these from falling into the public domain.

As most readers of this website will already know, this ABKCO posting was a bit of a hodge-podge/mish-mash of mostly bootleg audience recordings of some (but not all) of the Stones 1969 American tour concerts. These bootlegs have been available for decades and offer nothing new to the serious Stones collector. The real gems in this group of concert recordings, however, were soundboard/monitor mixes of the Madison Square Garden shows: the complete show from November 27, 3 opening numbers from the first show of November 28th and all but one track from the second performance on the same day. Although some of this material is available on the expanded version of "Get Yer Yas-Yas Out" and the deluxe video of "Gimme Shelter", these soundboards have never been bootlegged and are something close to the Holy Grail for Stones fans. Audience recordings of these show exist and have been around for years, but nothing like this in both quality and completeness.

Unreleased live recordings are always a treat. But the real payload in this brief burst of copyright control releases are the 2 dozen studio recordings in this YouTube posting.

Again, it's a bit of a hodge-podge. Half of the YouTube studio recordings have been readily available for years on bootlegs. The other half, however, have never seen the light of day.

Angry Stones fans have bemoaned the fact that ABKCO has been sitting on these tracks and questioned why these remarkable recordings were kept hidden in ABKCO vaults for so many years.

The answer is that these dozen or so studio tracks were never in the ABKCO vaults. These tracks come from the Rolling Stones own library of unreleased recordings. The Stones opened their own vaults to the producers of the film "Crossfire Hurricane" a number of years ago to select unreleased musical material for use in the film's soundtrack, especially instrumental tracks over which the Stones could be interviewed off screen. Some of the selections were used in the film. Others were not. These are the ones that were not.

This is why so many of the selections have no vocals-the vocal tracks for these versions were either never recorded or were removed for possible inclusion in the film. Also included in this group are some obviously different arrangements of familiar songs that DO have vocals ("Wild Horses", "Ruby Tuesday", "Love In Vain", "Sister Morphine" and SFTD). These, too, were on a short list for inclusion in "Crossfire Hurricane" but never made the cut.

The unreleased material that WAS used in the film, of course, is legally under copyright control by ABKCO and this is noted, naturally, in the film credits. And it's possible that these YouTube selections were also sent over to ABKCO before the final cut of the film was readied for released, just in case they were to have been used.

However, it's also possible that this isn't the case and that someone involved with the evaluation process made a copy of these rare recordings for themselves and somehow ABKCO got hold of it.

Here's a breakdown of those new, previously unavailable tracks:

1966: Ruby Tuesday-a complete, early attempt at the song with Brian Jones on piano. (He also played piano, and recorder, in the final version.) I cry everytime I hear this.

1968: SFTD-from the Rock and Roll Circus, one of the early takes, not used in the video.
Stray Cat Blues-instrumental from Beggar's Banquet sessions

1969: Midnight Rambler-instrumental, short but complete take.
Love In Vain-one of the earliest attempts at the song, similar to the Robert Johnson arrangement
Honky Tonk Women-early instrumental version, similar in style to County Honk, but a more rocking arrangement
Sister Morphine-the same early version found on many bootlegs, but this is the complete take, 90 seconds longer
Let It Bleed-early instrumental version
YCAGWYW-22 minutes of the London Bach Choir working on their vocals...lots of giggling and no complete performance of the song...interesting to listen to...once.

1970: Wild Horses-the acoustic Muscle Shoals take from December 1969 but with strings added sometime in 1970.

Among this group of non-concert recordings is a 1978 version of Gimme Shelter from that year's tour rehearsals, widely bootlegged. Why has ABKCO included this, calling it an early 1969 version? Why are recordings form 1966, 1968 and 1970 identified as being from 1969? How did ABKCO actually obtain these recordings?

These are questions for lawyers to debate. It's none of my business, nor do I care.

I will not comment further on my above statements nor answer questions about how I came into this knowledge-I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

"Are you having a good time?"

Thank you for the clarifications!! So these were under consideration for "Crossfire Hurricane" but never made the cut. This makes a lot of sense now. Plus, we now have clarification that "Ruby Tuesday" is indeed an early version from late '66.

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DandelionPowderman


Supposedly, Jean Luc Godard said in an interview that they did Ruby Tuesday for One Plus One in 1968. I haven't seen the interview myself, though.

Knowing Godard I'm sure he couldn't tell RT from"Hey Joe" in 1968 or now...
The sole "pop" artist he took an interest in (in the 80's) is Dylan. JLG is all about books, museum paintings, and cinema.

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thkbeercan


Here's a breakdown of those new, previously unavailable tracks:

1966: Ruby Tuesday-a complete, early attempt at the song with Brian Jones on piano. (He also played piano, and recorder, in the final version.) I cry everytime I hear this.

1968: SFTD-from the Rock and Roll Circus, one of the early takes, not used in the video.Stray Cat Blues-instrumental from Beggar's Banquet sessions

1969: Midnight Rambler-instrumental, short but complete take.
Love In Vain-one of the earliest attempts at the song, similar to the Robert Johnson arrangement

I still do think this primitive version of LIV is from 1968. I find it unbelievable they found a brand new arrangement for this song in a few days. It took much more than that (several months?) so I think this new version is from 1968.
Remember that- as brillant as they were between 68 and 72 they were slow! Don't forget how many years it took them to go from the 1st acoustic version of ADTL to the Eoms one... same for TDice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 19:21 by dcba.

I was searching on the website for Glyn Johns but the only contact info is for the publisher of his book. I was thinking if anyone here on the board knew of a way to reach him, he might be able to shed some light on the dates for RT and LIV.

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JordyLicks96

we now have clarification that "Ruby Tuesday" is indeed an early version from late '66.

No we don't. It's Nicky playing piano and the drum sounds and playing etc are not those of 1966.

...

The supposed Goddard comment that they played RT for his film is interesting and would make sense of Nicky playing etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 19:55 by His Majesty.

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dcba
I still do think this primitive version of LIV is from 1968. I find it unbelievable they found a brand new arrangement for this song in a few days. It took much more than that (several months?) so I think this new version is from 1968.
Remember that- as brillant as they were between 68 and 72 they were slow! Don't forget how many years it took them to go from the 1st acoustic version of ADTL to the Eoms one... same for TDice.

Sympathy shows it could happen in a few days.

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His Majesty

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dcba

Remember that- as brillant as they were between 68 and 72 they were slow! Don't forget how many years it took them to go from the 1st acoustic version of ADTL to the Eoms one... same for TDice.

Sympathy shows it could happen in a few days.

Alrite but the well-informed (quite an understatement) zengraf does mention a LIV I dated 1968-05-23. I believe it's the one from the 2019 leak.

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dcba

Alrite but the well-informed (quite an understatement) zengraf does mention a LIV I dated 1968-05-23. I believe it's the one from the 2019 leak.

It might be, but perhaps not.

The electric guitar could be the best way of nailing down a date. Is it Ry trying things out? Certainly seems to be. If so it's most likely from spring 1969.

Photos from a spring 1969 session at Olympic fit with this recording and also Sister Morphine. Keith playing resonator guitar, Ry playing electric.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 20:51 by His Majesty.

Has anyone else discovered that the Carol track on the Champaign show is not Carol, but a bunch of really interrupted bits of SFM?

Is there a thread on the Champaign ABKCO drop?

Kick me like you kicked before
I can't even feel the pain no more

"Rocks Off", Exile on Main Street
Rolling Stones, 1972

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stonesstein
Has anyone else discovered that the Carol track on the Champaign show is not Carol, but a bunch of really interrupted bits of SFM?

Yes!

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axl79
Link to some more tracks (upon JMARKOs request)

Sympathy, Stray Cat, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women (country rock), and Let It Bleed.



[we.tl]

Thanks again!

Did anyone capture the Altamont release? If so, is it possible for a WeTransfer link? I would forever be grateful and would pay it forward!

Which release? Was Altamont among those 170 tracks?

It was part of the RS69TRAX yes. I think there was all of it. I saw The Sun Is Shining and Brown Sugar, and a slew of other tracks from Altamont. It sounded like the well known bootleg of that show. I could be mistaking though.

JumpingKentFlash

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JumpingKentFlash
It was part of the RS69TRAX yes. I think there was all of it. I saw The Sun Is Shining and Brown Sugar, and a slew of other tracks from Altamont. It sounded like the well known bootleg of that show. I could be mistaking though.

I have not heard any of the RS69TRAX 'release' but surely ABKCO could not release an audience recording as part of a copyright extension?

All live tracks exept the MSG shows was shitty audience recordings ...

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glimmertwin1
All live tracks exept the MSG shows was shitty audience recordings ...

The Altamont "Gimme Shelter" was the soundboard version.