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alexander paul
Can Ruby Tuesday and Stray cat blues have been rehearsals (Spring, April-May) for the coming Hyde Park concert of June 1969.

Hyde Park wasn't a thing until June 1969.

They could be for a re-shoot of their part of the R&R Circus or a concert that ended up being Hyde Park.

Just listened once, but Brian seemingly doesn't play on any of them.

Anyway, a show rehearsal seems possibly to me.

Indeed, but the use of acoustic guitars and Nicky playing makes me go more towards it being for filming of some kind.

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ThePaleRider
I don't know what's going on. Who's doing what?

Easy Jagger holds all the cards. He wants the band to be perceived as a modern healthy working attractive entity that relies on its own merits and keeps on going into 2020 2021 etc. Not some aging bunch, that keeps injecting a bit of new life into itself by releasing "archival" stuff from glory days.
Jagger wants to prove himself the stones don't need what Dylan or Neil Young do.

So.... have no expectations about seeing the vaults being opened soon.

Love that '69 version of Ruby Tuesday! Sounds fantastic with the '69 singing style, punchy Let It Bleedish drums and Nicky's piano.

Anyone managed to download and process the non-MSG live tracks?
I got the MSG ones from the Buy/Sell/Trade thread ( [iorr.org] ) but got no download of the others.

My own personal filing of the tracks :

01- 1966-11-xx Ruby Tuesday
02- 1968-03-xx Stray Cat Blues Olympic Sound March/April 1968
03- 1968-05-13/23 Sister Morphine Early version
04- 1968-05-23 Love In Vain I (Bluesier version)
05- 1968-12-10 Sympathy for the Devil [Rock'n Roll Circus rehearsal]
06- 1969-02-09 Honky Tonk Women I (Alternate lyric)
07- 1969-02-09? Midnight Rambler (Instrumental)
08- 1969-03-15 You Can't Always Get What You Want - choir session
09- 1969-04 Let It Bleed - Olympic Sound - instrumental
10- 1969-04-xx Honky Tonk Women "Country rock instrumental
11- 1969-12- Wild Horses (With strings and glass harmonica)
12- 1978-05 Gimme Shelter (Woodstock rehearsal)

Some of those dates are very unlikely.

There's just no way that RT is from 1966. Nicky didn't play with them then for a start.

SM has Ry Cooder on it. Recorded March - April 1969. There's even a few photos from a session from which it probably was recorded. Keith with resonator guitar. Same guitar heard on You Got The Silver and that new LIV so most likely also from 1969.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-02 13:26 by His Majesty.

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dcba
My own personal filing of the tracks :


12- 1978-05 Gimme Shelter (Woodstock rehearsal)

ABKCO doesn't own the rights for anything recorded after 1971!

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slewan

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dcba
My own personal filing of the tracks :


12- 1978-05 Gimme Shelter (Woodstock rehearsal)

ABKCO doesn't own the rights for anything recorded after 1971!

Yet there it is, the Woodstock '78 version of Gimme Shelter. You can check it on youtube as well. The singing style, Ronnie on guitar and of course the electric piano with phaser on it (barely existed in '69) is from '78. It is a bit of a mystery why it showed up in the '69 copyright release from abkco.

Here's a theory: Is it possible that Ruby Tuesday comes from the "Jamming with Edward" session? (That would mean Ry Cooder on acoustic, I realize, but, seeing as nobody had this listed anywhere, I think it's as good a guess as any...)

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His Majesty

There's just no way that RT is from 1966. Nicky didn't play with them then for a start.

Ok about Nicky but Jagger's vocal delivery totally matches the one from the "Ed Sullivan" perf in 1/1967.
And why would they go through that tune again in 1969?
There's one possibility though : an informal intimate "in the studio" tribute to the recently-departed Brian? Tapes were rolling and 50 years later... voila!

Hmm.. It looks like i have missed all the fun here. I guess one should spend the new years drinking less, and following IORR more...

But thanks to axl79 I get to hear some of the gems. Fascinating stuff. Some observations.

The early take of "Love In Vain" is based rather closely to the Johnson original, not having yet that 'extra chord' (and missing that "All My Love Is Vain" line to finish every verse) that makes the released and live-played version a missing link between the Johnson original and "I Got The Blues".

The seemingly 1969 (!) version of "Ruby Tuesday" is pure gold. Would really like to know the whole story of it. The original is perfect, haunting and beautiful by all means, but this version adds the threatening element - damn that chorus hits hard with all cylinders on. Nicky's piano is simply out of this world - shit it sounds frightening and bad-ass.

I really like the version of "Sister Morphine" as well. Reminds me so well that it belongs to the 68/69 era dark masterpieces (or if we are precise, the mental roots alraedy were laid during SATANIC sessions), the Stones playing with the devil (the bastard sons of Robert Johnson), so to speak. The chaotic atmosphere it creates is unique (or typical to the era). I have always thought that it was a bit out of place in STICKY FINGERS.

Unfortunately the link for "You Can't Always Get What you want" didn't open for me.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-02 14:55 by Doxa.

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dcba

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His Majesty

There's just no way that RT is from 1966. Nicky didn't play with them then for a start.

Ok about Nicky but Jagger's vocal delivery totally matches the one from the "Ed Sullivan" perf in 1/1967.
And why would they go through that tune again in 1969?
There's one possibility though : an informal intimate "in the studio" tribute to the recently-departed Brian? Tapes were rolling and 50 years later... voila!

Or they thought to try it out for Re shooting the circus or other similar scenarios.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-02 15:05 by His Majesty.

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dcba

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ThePaleRider
I don't know what's going on. Who's doing what?

Easy Jagger holds all the cards. He wants the band to be perceived as a modern healthy working attractive entity that relies on its own merits and keeps on going into 2020 2021 etc. Not some aging bunch, that keeps injecting a bit of new life into itself by releasing "archival" stuff from glory days.
Jagger wants to prove himself the stones don't need what Dylan or Neil Young do.

So.... have no expectations about seeing the vaults being opened soon.

The problem with this argument is that Neil Young continues to release new product on a regular basis; likewise Dylan, though I admit no original compositions since 'Tempest'.

Are we to assume these new releases are only copyrighted till 2039 ie 70 years after recording.
Rather than 70 years from now? (2089)

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dcba

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His Majesty

There's just no way that RT is from 1966. Nicky didn't play with them then for a start.

Ok about Nicky but Jagger's vocal delivery totally matches the one from the "Ed Sullivan" perf in 1/1967.
And why would they go through that tune again in 1969?
There's one possibility though : an informal intimate "in the studio" tribute to the recently-departed Brian? Tapes were rolling and 50 years later... voila!

Didn't they already copyright control the Ed Sullivan-version on the '67 Sessions-release on iTunes?

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jlowe
Are we to assume these new releases are only copyrighted till 2039 ie 70 years after recording.
Rather than 70 years from now? (2089)

Yes.

Laws might change of course.

Here's how 'King Crimson' have handled the copyright protection issue.

[www.dgmlive.com]



If only ABKCO/Stones had done similar with the 60's recordings.

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Blueranger

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Bashlets
Don’t understand business worth shit but you would think the stones could have bought the rights back to their songs years ago from ABKCO. Yes, they were screwed but wouldn’t it be beneficial in the long run to themselves and heirs. Can someone explain this to me in simplistic terms? LOL but confused

@Rocky Dijon

The Stones (so we are led to believe) had an option to buy back (or have 50%) of the recording copyrights when Oldham bailed out in the late 60s. It has been suggested that the group was advised against purchase because of 'tax implications'. One hopes their Advisers were independent of ABKCO!
It may be that Mick, rather like McCartney with Northern Songs (publishing) didn't want to pay the asking price (if so, he has paid heavily). Of course the group hardly had a lot of spare cash at the time to bid/ buy...unlike their Business Manager.
ABKCO won't want to sell, The RS Decca years are their cash cow and will provide the Klein family with a steady income stream for years to come. And who can blame them?

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His Majesty

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jlowe
Are we to assume these new releases are only copyrighted till 2039 ie 70 years after recording.
Rather than 70 years from now? (2089)

Yes.

Laws might change of course.

The recordings are protected for 70 years from the date of release.

According to Directive 2011/77/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 September 2011 the situation in regard to phonograms/recordings is as follows:

A recording must be lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public within a period of 50 years after fixation (= recording date), otherwise it falls into the public domain (in the EU). If it is released within that period (the cut off date being Dec. 31) it is protected for 70 years from the date of release. This means that the Rolling Stones' 1969 recordings from the YouTube publication are protected until 2089.

Man I hate ABKCO.

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MrEcho


The recordings are protected for 70 years from the date of release.

According to Directive 2011/77/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 September 2011 the situation in regard to phonograms/recordings is as follows:

A recording must be lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public within a period of 50 years after fixation (= recording date), otherwise it falls into the public domain (in the EU). If it is released within that period (the cut off date being Dec. 31) it is protected for 70 years from the date of release. This means that the Rolling Stones' 1969 recordings from the YouTube publication are protected until 2089.

Did they upload them before midnight in all parts of the EU?

The irony then, is that these 'outakes/rejects/rehearsal tapes' enjoy a longer protection than the finished, higher quality and official product.
Strange, really.
So, unless there is a change of 'policy'regards Archive 60s material then none of us will ever live to see their official release.
Now, of course the heirs to the Jagger, Richards and Watts Estates may take a different view!

It's now private and not viewable.

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LieB

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slewan

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dcba
My own personal filing of the tracks :


12- 1978-05 Gimme Shelter (Woodstock rehearsal)

ABKCO doesn't own the rights for anything recorded after 1971!

Yet there it is, the Woodstock '78 version of Gimme Shelter. You can check it on youtube as well. The singing style, Ronnie on guitar and of course the electric piano with phaser on it (barely existed in '69) is from '78. It is a bit of a mystery why it showed up in the '69 copyright release from abkco.

well, it gives the Stones an opportunity to sue ABKCO

I predict nobody will want this stuff 10-20 years from now. Get mad at me if you want, but I don't see future generations in love with Rock And Roll, not without us around to promote it. Most likely all this treasure will end up in the trash, all because selfishness and greed led the way. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Did anybody get all 70+ tracks?

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coffeepotman
Did anybody get all 70+ tracks?

All live tracks are now available in this thread:
[iorr.org]

But I deleted all the non-MSG shows because they didn't sound good enough for me.
But the MSG shows are fantastic. I can really recommend listening to the 28th Late Show, which is the one that has the least songs on Ya-Ya's. It's rougher than Ya-Ya's for sure, but has some magic moments, like Sympathy, Stray Cat and Love In Vain.

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eduardoacdc
Man I hate ABKCO.

Why? I mean they seem eager to release both live and studio work. It's the Stones that are holding back.

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frankotero
I predict nobody will want this stuff 10-20 years from now. Get mad at me if you want, but I don't see future generations in love with Rock And Roll, not without us around to promote it. Most likely all this treasure will end up in the trash, all because selfishness and greed led the way. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

you're surely right. In 10-20 years from now the markets will be flooded with bootlegs, music collections etc. All those kid trying to sell (or simply throw away) the collections they inherited from their (grand-) parents and that are both useless and worthless to them