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Tornandfrayed

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Nasty Habits
To me most of the live tracks don't sound like soundboard recordings. In fact they sound like they are the first gen tapes of the shows that have been circulating on bootleg, Ft Collins and Miami for example sounds exactly the same as the copies that I've had for years.

MSG 27th sounds like the audience mic source that they used for the recording of Ya Ya's. Perhaps the majority of these recordings are from audience mic sources. If that's the case no doubt soundboard versions exist of these shows as well. It would make sense that they would only upload the lesser quality versions of these recordings and not the soundboard versions.

Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

.

The Altamont multitracks do exist and are out there with the original owner but not in the band´s or ABKCO´s posession AFAIK. In Addition to the audio in the Gimme Shelter movie, a full Version of the multitrack Gimme Shelter has been circulating in excellent quality for a long time.

The Altamont clips which have been leaked through the Chris M Website are NOT from the multitracks. They are dubs from a soundboard / mixing desk source and are vastly inferior sounding (unbalanced, drums mixed way too low, vocals too high) compared to the excellent multitrack source recordings.

wait a minute, wait a minute...you mean there is a pristine, multitrack soundboard circulating from the full Altamont show? How can I get it then?

>it’s actually quite a feat, to mix and edit three shows down to the final
>released Ya Ya’s

I do not understand this comment; I was under the distinct impression that Ya Yas, despite what it may claim in the credits, was only partially recorded at MSG. Instead it was a conglomeration of tracks from various stops on the tour, sometimes more than one source per song. In fact I recall some very lengthy analysis of the song sources back in Sticky Fingers. Or has that all proven to be incorrect?

about the Altamont recordings, any soundboard recordings would have been done by the grateful deads sound engineer, Owsley Stanley aka Bear, who has claimed in the past to have a complete soundboard recording, albeit in stereo and just using front of house mix, recorded on his Uher (I think it was) reel to reel deck. Are those the soundboard recordings being referenced here? I was always wondering where the multitracks of the day, if they exist, came from as while I was there I saw no multitrack recorders nor great amounts of wiring leading to an offstage recording truck, but of course I wasn't everywhere at once. I have always been hopeful that at least the sb front of house mix would get released. Who would the "owners" of the multitracks be, the Maysle brothers?

Did anyone save the similarly dumped BB sessions that were reportedly put up on youtube in a similar fashion for the copyright protection back last year? if so, could we be pointed to them please?

all very interesting and a very interesting time to be dropping back into the stones that's for sure.

jb

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bigmac7895

Quote
Tornandfrayed

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Nasty Habits
To me most of the live tracks don't sound like soundboard recordings. In fact they sound like they are the first gen tapes of the shows that have been circulating on bootleg, Ft Collins and Miami for example sounds exactly the same as the copies that I've had for years.

MSG 27th sounds like the audience mic source that they used for the recording of Ya Ya's. Perhaps the majority of these recordings are from audience mic sources. If that's the case no doubt soundboard versions exist of these shows as well. It would make sense that they would only upload the lesser quality versions of these recordings and not the soundboard versions.

Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

.

The Altamont multitracks do exist and are out there with the original owner but not in the band´s or ABKCO´s posession AFAIK. In Addition to the audio in the Gimme Shelter movie, a full Version of the multitrack Gimme Shelter has been circulating in excellent quality for a long time.

The Altamont clips which have been leaked through the Chris M Website are NOT from the multitracks. They are dubs from a soundboard / mixing desk source and are vastly inferior sounding (unbalanced, drums mixed way too low, vocals too high) compared to the excellent multitrack source recordings.

wait a minute, wait a minute...you mean there is a pristine, multitrack soundboard circulating from the full Altamont show? How can I get it then?

It is NOT circulating but it does exist. I believe the reels are with the orignal owner. There was an article about him ten years ago or so.

What I meant was that the existing Gimme Shelter performance should give a good indication of what the full Thing sounds like, if it ever sees the light of the day.

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jbwelda
>it’s actually quite a feat, to mix and edit three shows down to the final
>released Ya Ya’s

I do not understand this comment; I was under the distinct impression that Ya Yas, despite what it may claim in the credits, was only partially recorded at MSG. Instead it was a conglomeration of tracks from various stops on the tour, sometimes more than one source per song. In fact I recall some very lengthy analysis of the song sources back in Sticky Fingers. Or has that all proven to be incorrect?

about the Altamont recordings, any soundboard recordings would have been done by the grateful deads sound engineer, Owsley Stanley aka Bear, who has claimed in the past to have a complete soundboard recording, albeit in stereo and just using front of house mix, recorded on his Uher (I think it was) reel to reel deck. Are those the soundboard recordings being referenced here? I was always wondering where the multitracks of the day, if they exist, came from as while I was there I saw no multitrack recorders nor great amounts of wiring leading to an offstage recording truck, but of course I wasn't everywhere at once. I have always been hopeful that at least the sb front of house mix would get released. Who would the "owners" of the multitracks be, the Maysle brothers?

Did anyone save the similarly dumped BB sessions that were reportedly put up on youtube in a similar fashion for the copyright protection back last year? if so, could we be pointed to them please?

all very interesting and a very interesting time to be dropping back into the stones that's for sure.

jb

Ya Yas is MSG (from two shows) + Love In Vain from Baltimore.

The tracks released on Youtube were from 65-66, not 68. '67 Sessions were released on iTunes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-03 20:29 by DandelionPowderman.

Presumably any recordings (live or studio) not as yet released, either officially or via 'the dump' have now fallen into Public Domain classification.
And can therefore be released by some entrepreneur (who has a good legal backup).
Perhaps via a streaming service.

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DandelionPowderman

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jbwelda
>it’s actually quite a feat, to mix and edit three shows down to the final
>released Ya Ya’s

I do not understand this comment; I was under the distinct impression that Ya Yas, despite what it may claim in the credits, was only partially recorded at MSG. Instead it was a conglomeration of tracks from various stops on the tour, sometimes more than one source per song. In fact I recall some very lengthy analysis of the song sources back in Sticky Fingers. Or has that all proven to be incorrect?

about the Altamont recordings, any soundboard recordings would have been done by the grateful deads sound engineer, Owsley Stanley aka Bear, who has claimed in the past to have a complete soundboard recording, albeit in stereo and just using front of house mix, recorded on his Uher (I think it was) reel to reel deck. Are those the soundboard recordings being referenced here? I was always wondering where the multitracks of the day, if they exist, came from as while I was there I saw no multitrack recorders nor great amounts of wiring leading to an offstage recording truck, but of course I wasn't everywhere at once. I have always been hopeful that at least the sb front of house mix would get released. Who would the "owners" of the multitracks be, the Maysle brothers?

Did anyone save the similarly dumped BB sessions that were reportedly put up on youtube in a similar fashion for the copyright protection back last year? if so, could we be pointed to them please?

all very interesting and a very interesting time to be dropping back into the stones that's for sure.

jb

Ya Yas is MSG (from two shows) + Love In Vain from Baltimore.

The tracks released on Youtube were from 65-66, not 68. '67 Sessions were released on iTunes.

As it seems now, only JJF is from the 27th show, LIV from Baltimore, and all the remaining tracks from 28 first and second show.

JJF note for note 27
Carol note for note 28 1st
Stray cat not 27 and not 28 2nd
Love Baltimore
Sympathy 28 1st note for note
Midnight 28 2nd note for note
Live with me 28 2nd note for note
HTW not 27 and not 28 2nd
SFM not 27 and not 28 2nd
Queenie 28 1st note for note

Mathijs

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Tornandfrayed

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S.T.P

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Tornandfrayed

...In Addition to the audio in the Gimme Shelter movie, a full Version of the multitrack Gimme Shelter has been circulating in excellent quality for a long time.

Question:
Is it multitracks to the songs in the movie that you are refearing to, or the song GS? -And if it's not the song: are these tracks all complete songs, ie. no cuts, and without other audio mixed in (like audience noise)?

I am referring to the performance of the song.

It was released along with two undoctored Ya-Ya´s tracks on the 1990 Bootleg CD "A Shot of Salvation". Street Fighting Man from 28-11 1st without the vocal overdubs and original vocal intact and Love In Vain from 26-11 with Mick´s pre-song chat included.

[www.discogs.com]

Gimme Shelter is different from the edited version which plays during the Gimme Shelter movie credits at the end. It is the full performance with Keith´s intro, all verses and both Keith guitar solos included as well as Mick and Keith pre-song talk ("One of you can chill one little girl..." "Come on fellas don´t riot").
It´s worth seeking out and the track gives a good indication of what a complete and professionally mixed multitrack Altamont sounds like.

The full edit is also on Youtube but in compressed audio and without pre-song talk:
[youtu.be]

Hope this helps...

Thanks Tornandfrayed!! It helps a lot
About the Altamont tracks: It's been the holy grail for me since I started to get serious about listening to the Stones live (around '88). I would be very thankful if you could give a clue to where I can run across this tresure!

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Tornandfrayed

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bigmac7895

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Tornandfrayed

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Nasty Habits
To me most of the live tracks don't sound like soundboard recordings. In fact they sound like they are the first gen tapes of the shows that have been circulating on bootleg, Ft Collins and Miami for example sounds exactly the same as the copies that I've had for years.

MSG 27th sounds like the audience mic source that they used for the recording of Ya Ya's. Perhaps the majority of these recordings are from audience mic sources. If that's the case no doubt soundboard versions exist of these shows as well. It would make sense that they would only upload the lesser quality versions of these recordings and not the soundboard versions.

Whats everyone's thoughts on this?

.

The Altamont multitracks do exist and are out there with the original owner but not in the band´s or ABKCO´s posession AFAIK. In Addition to the audio in the Gimme Shelter movie, a full Version of the multitrack Gimme Shelter has been circulating in excellent quality for a long time.

The Altamont clips which have been leaked through the Chris M Website are NOT from the multitracks. They are dubs from a soundboard / mixing desk source and are vastly inferior sounding (unbalanced, drums mixed way too low, vocals too high) compared to the excellent multitrack source recordings.

wait a minute, wait a minute...you mean there is a pristine, multitrack soundboard circulating from the full Altamont show? How can I get it then?

It is NOT circulating but it does exist. I believe the reels are with the orignal owner. There was an article about him ten years ago or so.

What I meant was that the existing Gimme Shelter performance should give a good indication of what the full Thing sounds like, if it ever sees the light of the day.

Sorry Tornandfrayed, I didn't see your comment on the Altamont tracks when asking about where to find them. Thanks anyway for your insight

[www.mixcloud.com]

Remastered version New York City, M.S.G., 27 November, 1969

All tracks were taken from Youtube and converted to wav. Removed a dial tone/hum, a few clicks and the gaps between the tracks. Fixed a missing piece between I'm Free and Midnight Rambler with a patch from an audience recording (first gen transfer).



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 00:48 by Keessie.

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axl79
The tone can be removed easily with Audacity, use Effect -> Notch Filter. 500Hz 20dB.

The Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - (1969 Bluesier version) wo tone
[mega.nz]

Ruby Tuesday
[mega.nz]

Wild Horses (with strings and glass harmonica)
[mega.nz]

You Can't Always Get What You Want - choir sessions
[mega.nz]

Sister Morphine - 1969 Early versioN
[mega.nz]

AXL79 these sound superior to the ones in the Olympic thread in the Hot Stuff forum here.

The link for the YCAGWYW link now needs a decryptor??

Any way you can work your magic on the rest of the studio tracks and post them along with an accessible YCAGWYW?

J

Can one download from mixcloud and if so how does one do that? thanks

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dadrob
Can one download from mixcloud and if so how does one do that? thanks

[iorr.org]

thank you kindly as the man said

Mystery of Rolling Stones tracks posted briefly on YouTube:

[www.theguardian.com]

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 01:58 by His Majesty.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 01:58 by His Majesty.

RIP The Rolling Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 02:10 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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JordyLicks96
Ruby Tuesday cannot be from 1969. Jaggers singing style matches the way it was in 66-67, so either this is an early version or a rehearsal of some kind.

It is not his 66 singing. Nicky didn't play with them till 1967. The bass and drums are not the sounds they had in 1966.

Charlies playing is more 69 than 66.

Good point, I have no idea where this could be from. Maybe the 1969 tour rehearsals?

28th October - 1st November: Laurel Canyon, California, basement of Stephen Stills’ house. Rehearsals for the upcoming US tour.

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His Majesty
.

@ His Majesty: that's a lot of editing><

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S.T.P

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His Majesty
.

@ His Majesty: that's a lot of editing><

IORR is a nightmare to use on phone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 02:14 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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S.T.P

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His Majesty
.

@ His Majesty: that's a lot of editing><

IORR is a nightmare to use on phone.

I know!

I posted this over on the trade page...but perhaps here is more appropriate...

Having only listened to that version of Ruby Tuesday a couple of times - why can't it be a 1966 outtake? I have read here that some said, "well it is Nicky Hopkins" so it can't be 1966...
Is it Nicky Hopkins? Could be - but it is not definitive...Why can't it be Jack Nitzsche? I have been listening to the YCAGWYW session - and Nitzsche's piano there is not entirely dissimilar.
There is no way this is from 1969. I say late 1966 RCA sessions which has been misfiled - just like how a Satanic Majesties outtake ended up on Exile Deluxe - etc etc - as we know the Stones archive is in a sorry state.

But anyway, I want to know what conclusive evidence says that RT is not from 1966. I remain to be convinced.

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funkydrummer
I posted this over on the trade page...but perhaps here is more appropriate...

Having only listened to that version of Ruby Tuesday a couple of times - why can't it be a 1966 outtake? I have read here that some said, "well it is Nicky Hopkins" so it can't be 1966...
Is it Nicky Hopkins? Could be - but it is not definitive...Why can't it be Jack Nitzsche? I have been listening to the YCAGWYW session - and Nitzsche's piano there is not entirely dissimilar.
There is no way this is from 1969. I say late 1966 RCA sessions which has been misfiled - just like how a Satanic Majesties outtake ended up on Exile Deluxe - etc etc - as we know the Stones archive is in a sorry state.

But anyway, I want to know what conclusive evidence says that RT is not from 1966. I remain to be convinced.

Oh my.

thank you for the clarification on ya yas sources. I did go back and dig through my sticky fingers magazines and found the articles on the album, and it appears, once you dig through a lot of irrelevant analysis, that you are correct about the one track being from Baltimore but the rest indeed from msg one show or another.

thanks again

jb

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funkydrummer
I posted this over on the trade page...but perhaps here is more appropriate...

Having only listened to that version of Ruby Tuesday a couple of times - why can't it be a 1966 outtake? I have read here that some said, "well it is Nicky Hopkins" so it can't be 1966...
Is it Nicky Hopkins? Could be - but it is not definitive...Why can't it be Jack Nitzsche? I have been listening to the YCAGWYW session - and Nitzsche's piano there is not entirely dissimilar.
There is no way this is from 1969. I say late 1966 RCA sessions which has been misfiled - just like how a Satanic Majesties outtake ended up on Exile Deluxe - etc etc - as we know the Stones archive is in a sorry state.

But anyway, I want to know what conclusive evidence says that RT is not from 1966. I remain to be convinced.

Charlie's drumming sounds similar to his style on Jigsaw Puzzle, 68-69 era. Nicky's piano sounds a lot like on No Expectations.

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Keessie
[www.mixcloud.com]

Remastered version New York City, M.S.G., 27 November, 1969

All tracks were taken from Youtube and converted to wav. Removed a dial tone/hum, a few clicks and the gaps between the tracks. Fixed a missing piece between I'm Free and Midnight Rambler with a patch from an audience recording (first gen transfer).

This is simply terrific! Thanks, my ears are ringing from blasting this on headphones. WOW

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DGA35

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funkydrummer
I posted this over on the trade page...but perhaps here is more appropriate...

Having only listened to that version of Ruby Tuesday a couple of times - why can't it be a 1966 outtake? I have read here that some said, "well it is Nicky Hopkins" so it can't be 1966...
Is it Nicky Hopkins? Could be - but it is not definitive...Why can't it be Jack Nitzsche? I have been listening to the YCAGWYW session - and Nitzsche's piano there is not entirely dissimilar.
There is no way this is from 1969. I say late 1966 RCA sessions which has been misfiled - just like how a Satanic Majesties outtake ended up on Exile Deluxe - etc etc - as we know the Stones archive is in a sorry state.

But anyway, I want to know what conclusive evidence says that RT is not from 1966. I remain to be convinced.

Charlie's drumming sounds similar to his style on Jigsaw Puzzle, 68-69 era. Nicky's piano sounds a lot like on No Expectations.

How do you know it's Nicky Hopkins? You're just making an assumption it's him. And if it was from 1968-69, where would they have recorded this and what for?

"Sounds a lot like No Expectations" or "oh my" isn't really putting forward an argument. I could say the intro sounds like Sitting on a Fence. I will say that Charlies drumming sounds a lot like what he would do before he came up with the sharp rolls he would do on the finished take. Why would he shape the rhythm of the song like that and then abandon it for one take in 69



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 07:14 by Nikkei.

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His Majesty
Here's how 'King Crimson' have handled the copyright protection issue.

[www.dgmlive.com]



If only ABKCO/Stones had done similar with the 60's recordings.

Amen. At $7-13 per session day (around $90 total), the downloads get a bit expensive. And all the material will be included on their upcoming 1969 complete box. But Crimson put out nine days of session material in 24-bit files, enough to fill six CDs, totalling 6 1/2 hours. That's what I call a copyright protection datadump!

The Crimson megaboxes devoted to each period of their existence are exemplary archival releases. Multiple mixes, contemporary live shows, session excerpts, etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-01-04 16:12 by ab.

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Nikkei
"Sounds a lot like No Expectations" or "oh my" isn't really putting forward an argument. I could say the intro sounds like Sitting on a Fence. I will say that Charlies drumming sounds a lot like what he would do before he came up with the sharp rolls he would do on the finished take. Why would he shape the rhythm of the song like that and then abandon it for one take in 69

There is also a clue perhaps in the "girl I'm gonna miss you" lyric variation which was an early alternate lyric Mick sang during 1967 live performances "still I'm gonna miss you" was not yet the ultimate lyric cemented in his mind even though it was on the single.