Tell Me :
Talk
You can hear by Brian's soprano sax sound that he practised the clarinet as well.
Most (professional) sax players for some reason play both Soprano and Tenor. Alto sax is difficult to hold in tune as well. Tenor and Baritone are relatively easy, but still you need the talent and practise, regardless what sax register you play.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-11 14:55 by TheflyingDutchman.
Pete Townshend talked about Brian at the HOF induction ceremony. Starts around 4:09:
[youtu.be]
Many fans despise synthesizers in Rolling Stones music.
Yes, my dear Taylor1, but it has happened already. This is too theoretical by now.
Brian smashed a Firebird? Is that the Firebird still in possession of the Stones, or the Firebird in possession of a UK collector? Last time I checked both were in good condition.
But let's not hijack this thread with Paul Spendel bullshit.
Mathijs
Thank you, HM, for this ongoing work. Please don't give up and keep posting.
And don't forget of what time we speak here. The sixties of the last century. There was no internet with free guitar lessons on youtube. You could not study electric guitar in music schools, so don't aply todays standards of quality, especially technical quality, to Brians contributions to aur beloved music from back then.
Resotele
So Brian smashed a guitar in 1969 that he gave away in late 1965, and after being played throughout the 1970's ended up with full provenance with an UK collector? Wow man.
Ps the bridge and tremelo of a Firebird is the same as on a SG, so nothing odd.
Ps 2 I will step out of this discussion with you, it is His Majesty's thread on the work of Brian Jones.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 16:53 by Mathijs.
Cool. Is this the same apparatus like we hear on "good vibrations"? -from 0:26 and onwards. There is some indefinable humour in it. I always liked that sound.
"Electrotheremin":
[www.npr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 21:29 by Ps37.
Damn, thank you. I found some more. The woman starts off with "Autumn Leaves".
[www.youtube.com]
To be honest I doubted the year 1965, as the provenance states that he gave it away while on tour in the USA. The person who received the guitar played it throughout the 1970's and sold it to an UK shop in the early 1980's. This is where the collector has bought it. The collector, who as far as I know still has the guitar, also had Keith's Flying V and Mick Taylor's 1958 Les Paul (the latter two sold by now). The Firebird now has a refinished body, all else original. Patterns of the inlays and grain of the wood match with Brian's guitar.
Btw -Keith's Firebird that he recorded Satisfaction with and that he gave to Dave Hassinger and was stolen from the studio is -as rumor goes - in the hands of a USA collector close to the Norman Harris / Joe Bonamassa collectors.
Mathijs
And, as far as I know, the guitar has not been seen with the Stones anywhere from after the US tour of 1966, with Brian playing a non-reverse Firebird, the Gibson ES-330 and the LP Goldtop. The Stones were still very limited in the number of guitars they had and used.
Mathijs
Agree 100%.
I find I can respect/admire technical virtuosity (speed/fluidity/precision of playing) but if it doesn't make the emotional connection with me, I don't gravitate toward repeated listenings.
The song is the key element. The playing needs to serve the song, and all the virtuosity in the world won't make a song resonate with me if it can't resonate with me without it.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 11, 2023 14:52
Quote
His Majesty
Brian was taught clarinet first, then took up alto sax. A good basis to be able to adapt to any of the woodwind instruments.
...
I'm finding soprano a frustrating thing to play in tune compared with alto and tenor. It"s in part due to the mouthpiece being so small. Even small changes in mouth position and pressure has a notable affect on pitch and tone.
The even smaller sopranino must be a nightmare.
You can hear by Brian's soprano sax sound that he practised the clarinet as well.
Most (professional) sax players for some reason play both Soprano and Tenor. Alto sax is difficult to hold in tune as well. Tenor and Baritone are relatively easy, but still you need the talent and practise, regardless what sax register you play.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-11 14:55 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 11, 2023 15:09
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:58 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:58 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 11, 2023 15:38
Quote
His Majesty
Alto is probably easiest to play overall. The size/pitch control/air pressure ratio makes it most suited sax for beginners.
A tenor or baritone is pretty unwieldy if you are new to the instrument and/or are little.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 11, 2023 17:30
HM,
You took up the admirable task to put the spotlights on Brian Jones. I don't need to tell you after all those years your thread is on IORR, that it triggered loads of opinions. People who see themselves as guitar specialists, blues harp specialists, saxophone specialists, etc. etc. have given there personal views time after time. Not to forget all the facts. Very interesting reads!
But ... let's not forget that when The Rolling Stones surfaced internationally in 1964 (after a solid year and half proving themselves in the UK) they surfaced as a unity. I dare to say that virtually nobody in those early days was interested in who did what on any of the songs. Some info was given on early albums, but ... who cared? ...
It was, and I still believe it is, the song as an entity that touches the soul of each individual listening to it. Result: I love (like) it, or I dislike (hate) it or anything in between.
Since this thread is about Brian Jones, I only wonder why some absolutely great misicians (Hendrikx, Townshend, Clapton, Beck, etc., etc. in the history of R&B and R&R spoke/speak so highly of Brian's contribution to the Stones? Do/did they miss something or is it that the above mentioned specialists are/were missing something?
My motto is: put on the record, set your mind on blanc, and enjoy it as ... another enjoyable Rolling Stones (or any other artist for that matter) song.
Right Hairball?
Okay, a challange for those who love to disagree with me: Get Off Of My Cloud has this, modestly on the background, guitar jingle by Brian (I don't mean the mid 80s skr*wed up DECCA CD version, on which that jingle is way to load on the foreground). It's a very subtle (easy to play by any guitar player) addition to a great song, giving it just that extra bit of taste. Simplicity in its finest form.
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
You took up the admirable task to put the spotlights on Brian Jones. I don't need to tell you after all those years your thread is on IORR, that it triggered loads of opinions. People who see themselves as guitar specialists, blues harp specialists, saxophone specialists, etc. etc. have given there personal views time after time. Not to forget all the facts. Very interesting reads!
But ... let's not forget that when The Rolling Stones surfaced internationally in 1964 (after a solid year and half proving themselves in the UK) they surfaced as a unity. I dare to say that virtually nobody in those early days was interested in who did what on any of the songs. Some info was given on early albums, but ... who cared? ...
It was, and I still believe it is, the song as an entity that touches the soul of each individual listening to it. Result: I love (like) it, or I dislike (hate) it or anything in between.
Since this thread is about Brian Jones, I only wonder why some absolutely great misicians (Hendrikx, Townshend, Clapton, Beck, etc., etc. in the history of R&B and R&R spoke/speak so highly of Brian's contribution to the Stones? Do/did they miss something or is it that the above mentioned specialists are/were missing something?
My motto is: put on the record, set your mind on blanc, and enjoy it as ... another enjoyable Rolling Stones (or any other artist for that matter) song.
Right Hairball?
Okay, a challange for those who love to disagree with me: Get Off Of My Cloud has this, modestly on the background, guitar jingle by Brian (I don't mean the mid 80s skr*wed up DECCA CD version, on which that jingle is way to load on the foreground). It's a very subtle (easy to play by any guitar player) addition to a great song, giving it just that extra bit of taste. Simplicity in its finest form.
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Ps37
()
Date: September 11, 2023 17:54
Quote
georgie48
I only wonder why some absolutely great misicians (Hendrikx, Townshend, Clapton, Beck, etc., etc. in the history of R&B and R&R spoke/speak so highly of Brian's contribution to the Stones? Do/did they miss something or is it that the above mentioned specialists are/were missing something?
Pete Townshend talked about Brian at the HOF induction ceremony. Starts around 4:09:
[youtu.be]
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 11, 2023 19:20
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:59 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:59 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: September 11, 2023 20:46
His mellotron work on Satanic Majesties and Beggars Banquet are great.Too bad he didn’t live long enough to play more advanced keyboard instruments
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: September 11, 2023 21:31
Me as a non-musician poster, fully aware of that deficiency, I myself also sometimes challenged by some of your posts, still have almost always found your posts most stimulating to read, His Majesty! Also when in disagreement! I would most sincerely want you to stay and continue to post!
Maybe your interchanges with Mathijs about Brian's skills on guitar, lack another term, I wonder. That word would be taste!
Edit: Correction in spelling of name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 03:04 by Witness.
Maybe your interchanges with Mathijs about Brian's skills on guitar, lack another term, I wonder. That word would be taste!
Edit: Correction in spelling of name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 03:04 by Witness.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 11, 2023 22:58
Quote
Taylor1
His mellotron work on Satanic Majesties and Beggars Banquet are great.Too bad he didn’t live long enough to play more advanced keyboard instruments
Many fans despise synthesizers in Rolling Stones music.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
BJPortugal
()
Date: September 11, 2023 23:22
His Majesty, please keep up the good work.
I regularly follow The Brian Jones Resource on Facebook and Youtube and I think that it is great.
I regularly follow The Brian Jones Resource on Facebook and Youtube and I think that it is great.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
paulspendel
()
Date: September 12, 2023 00:09
In support of His Majesty: Matthijs also keeps on denying every fact I researched regarding Brian’s death and estate. He states he does so because he is informed. But only last week he presented Julian Mark as entitled to the estate which is absolutely not the case. He also repeatedly posted all of Brian’s belongings were returned to his parents which was not the case. I have a long list of Brian’s belongings ending up in other peoples hands, from furniture, clothes to even his 1965 Gibson Firebird, although heavily damaged after Brian smashed it to pieces at the Stones warehouse in Bermondsey (courtesy Peter Swales).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 00:13 by paulspendel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 00:13 by paulspendel.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 12, 2023 00:35
.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:52 by His Majesty.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:52 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: September 12, 2023 00:56
Time Waits For No One, Heaven,Angel in My Heart, Might as Well Get Juiced, Fool to Cry, Memory Motel, Some Girls, Imagination, Fingerprint File, 2000 Light Years live,and others.The strings on AngieWinter, Moonlight Mile could be recorded with synths .Brian could have played these parts
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 02:25 by Taylor1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 02:25 by Taylor1.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 12, 2023 12:47
Quote
Taylor1
Time Waits For No One, Heaven,Angel in My Heart, Might as Well Get Juiced, Fool to Cry, Memory Motel, Some Girls, Imagination, Fingerprint File, 2000 Light Years live,and others.The strings on AngieWinter, Moonlight Mile could be recorded with synths .Brian could have played these parts
Yes, my dear Taylor1, but it has happened already. This is too theoretical by now.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 12, 2023 12:58
Quote
paulspendel
I have a long list of Brian’s belongings ending up in other peoples hands, from furniture, clothes to even his 1965 Gibson Firebird, although heavily damaged after Brian smashed it to pieces at the Stones warehouse in Bermondsey (courtesy Peter Swales).
Brian smashed a Firebird? Is that the Firebird still in possession of the Stones, or the Firebird in possession of a UK collector? Last time I checked both were in good condition.
But let's not hijack this thread with Paul Spendel bullshit.
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
resotele
()
Date: September 12, 2023 12:59
Quote
His Majesty
Let's get this back to Brian and music.
The intent of these demonstrations is to highlight Brian's contributions and to allow people who may or may not know what Brian played to see and/or hear what he played, the type of instrument he used, and to give an idea of how he played it. They hopefully help people to be able to pick out Brian's parts more easily when listening to the original recordings.
Thank you, HM, for this ongoing work. Please don't give up and keep posting.
And don't forget of what time we speak here. The sixties of the last century. There was no internet with free guitar lessons on youtube. You could not study electric guitar in music schools, so don't aply todays standards of quality, especially technical quality, to Brians contributions to aur beloved music from back then.
Resotele
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 12, 2023 15:12
.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:52 by His Majesty.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:52 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
paulspendel
()
Date: September 12, 2023 16:00
"But let's not hijack this thread with Paul Spendel bullshit"
Here is some bullshit: Brian's 1966 Firebird is travelling with the Unzipped tour.
His 1965 Gibson was picked up by Peter Swales in 1969 from the Stones gear warehouse in Bermondsey. It was smashed to pieces. Later on Swales was managing a band that were allowed to rehearse at the Bermondsey warehouse. He gave the remaining pieces to this band and the guitarist used to bridge for his own guitar. A Gibson SG which was an odd combination. The neck was too damaged to use again. Peter swales who worked for the Stones confirmed to me this story from Turkey where he was living before he died. The guitarist from the band who used the bridge asked to remain anonymous because of all the 'Brian loonies'. Later on he sold the Gibson SG with the Firebird bridge. The collector Mathijs is referring to who is supposed to own the 1965 Firebird had it repainted. A real guitar afficiado would never do that to such an iconic guitar. Brian smashed the guitar after the last May 1969 photo session in Bermondsey, frustrated by the band tensions.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 16:06 by paulspendel.
Here is some bullshit: Brian's 1966 Firebird is travelling with the Unzipped tour.
His 1965 Gibson was picked up by Peter Swales in 1969 from the Stones gear warehouse in Bermondsey. It was smashed to pieces. Later on Swales was managing a band that were allowed to rehearse at the Bermondsey warehouse. He gave the remaining pieces to this band and the guitarist used to bridge for his own guitar. A Gibson SG which was an odd combination. The neck was too damaged to use again. Peter swales who worked for the Stones confirmed to me this story from Turkey where he was living before he died. The guitarist from the band who used the bridge asked to remain anonymous because of all the 'Brian loonies'. Later on he sold the Gibson SG with the Firebird bridge. The collector Mathijs is referring to who is supposed to own the 1965 Firebird had it repainted. A real guitar afficiado would never do that to such an iconic guitar. Brian smashed the guitar after the last May 1969 photo session in Bermondsey, frustrated by the band tensions.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 16:06 by paulspendel.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 12, 2023 16:18
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:53 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:53 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 12, 2023 16:42
Quote
paulspendel
"But let's not hijack this thread with Paul Spendel bullshit"
Here is some bullshit: Brian's 1966 Firebird is travelling with the Unzipped tour.
His 1965 Gibson was picked up by Peter Swales in 1969 from the Stones gear warehouse in Bermondsey. It was smashed to pieces. Later on Swales was managing a band that were allowed to rehearse at the Bermondsey warehouse. He gave the remaining pieces to this band and the guitarist used to bridge for his own guitar. A Gibson SG which was an odd combination. The neck was too damaged to use again. Peter swales who worked for the Stones confirmed to me this story from Turkey where he was living before he died. The guitarist from the band who used the bridge asked to remain anonymous because of all the 'Brian loonies'. Later on he sold the Gibson SG with the Firebird bridge. The collector Mathijs is referring to who is supposed to own the 1965 Firebird had it repainted. A real guitar afficiado would never do that to such an iconic guitar. Brian smashed the guitar after the last May 1969 photo session in Bermondsey, frustrated by the band tensions.
So Brian smashed a guitar in 1969 that he gave away in late 1965, and after being played throughout the 1970's ended up with full provenance with an UK collector? Wow man.
Ps the bridge and tremelo of a Firebird is the same as on a SG, so nothing odd.
Ps 2 I will step out of this discussion with you, it is His Majesty's thread on the work of Brian Jones.
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 16:53 by Mathijs.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 12, 2023 20:37
Quote
His Majesty
Re synthesizers...
"If it sounds weird, it's Brian." - Andrew Loog Oldham.
Additionally, there is also Brian stating this in 1968.
"I'm very hung-up on electronic music at present. If there is not room to include it on our album I would like to do something separately." - Brian Jones.
Here is a quick demo of an old oscillator. Every professional studio had them for tape machine calibration etc etc.
Cool. Is this the same apparatus like we hear on "good vibrations"? -from 0:26 and onwards. There is some indefinable humour in it. I always liked that sound.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Ps37
()
Date: September 12, 2023 21:28
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Cool. Is this the same apparatus like we hear on "good vibrations"? -from 0:26 and onwards. There is some indefinable humour in it. I always liked that sound.
"Electrotheremin":
[www.npr.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-12 21:29 by Ps37.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: September 12, 2023 21:50
Quote
Ps37Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Cool. Is this the same apparatus like we hear on "good vibrations"? -from 0:26 and onwards. There is some indefinable humour in it. I always liked that sound.
"Electrotheremin":
[www.npr.org]
Damn, thank you.
I found some more. The woman starts off with "Autumn Leaves".[www.youtube.com]
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 13, 2023 03:33
.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:54 by His Majesty.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:54 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 13, 2023 13:40
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Mathijs
So Brian smashed a guitar in 1969 that he gave away in late 1965, and after being played throughout the 1970's ended up with full provenance with an UK collector? Wow man.
Brian played both his reverse and non reverse Gibson Firebird VII guitars during the summer 1966 US tour. The Rolling Stones still have the non reverse VII. The reverse VII used in 1966 was the same one he played in 1965. The woodgrain matches.
Lots of collectors have things that aren't or might not be what they believe them to be and they are often very resistant to info which casts doubt regarding what they have, usually, spent a lot of money on.
So, if the provenance say's Brian gave the reverse VII away in late 1965, perhaps that provenance is out by 6 months or it is just dubious.
To be honest I doubted the year 1965, as the provenance states that he gave it away while on tour in the USA. The person who received the guitar played it throughout the 1970's and sold it to an UK shop in the early 1980's. This is where the collector has bought it. The collector, who as far as I know still has the guitar, also had Keith's Flying V and Mick Taylor's 1958 Les Paul (the latter two sold by now). The Firebird now has a refinished body, all else original. Patterns of the inlays and grain of the wood match with Brian's guitar.
Btw -Keith's Firebird that he recorded Satisfaction with and that he gave to Dave Hassinger and was stolen from the studio is -as rumor goes - in the hands of a USA collector close to the Norman Harris / Joe Bonamassa collectors.
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 13, 2023 13:58
No idea of its validity, but Paul Spendel's story about the last (?) session Brian did with the Stones - the photograph session in May 1969 - ending frustrated him smashing the Firebird on pieces sounds pretty dramatic... Fitting too well to a certain narrative?
STONED missed a good scene...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-13 14:04 by Doxa.
STONED missed a good scene...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-13 14:04 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: September 13, 2023 14:33
Quote
Doxa
No idea of its validity, but Paul Spendel's story about the last (?) session Brian did with the Stones - the photograph session in May 1969 - ending frustrated him smashing the Firebird on pieces sounds pretty dramatic... Fitting too well to a certain narrative?
STONED missed a good scene...
- Doxa
And, as far as I know, the guitar has not been seen with the Stones anywhere from after the US tour of 1966, with Brian playing a non-reverse Firebird, the Gibson ES-330 and the LP Goldtop. The Stones were still very limited in the number of guitars they had and used.
Mathijs
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 13, 2023 15:41
But we are good here? His Majesty keeps up doing the highly valuable and unique work for the joy of us fans of Brian and his era here, and Mathijs keeps his widely known Brian angst in a tolerable level? 
What goes for the stressing the technical level of musicianship I find that generally very odd in the context of the Stones. None of them have been any master musicians in a technical level. Okay, probably Taylor's fluidity once was pretty exceptional, but hey, to shine technically in a lead guitar department of the Stones is not that big accomplishment. One doesn't exactly need to be a virtuoso for that.
Charlie and Bill... great musicians for sure, but their greatness do not derive from a technical point of view. Technically limited, but solid guys to do their job. Both Keith and Ronnie are pretty rough and even sloppy players. Especially in the case of Keith - my favourite guitar player with Jimi - his idiosyncracy might give the impression of 'Hey, this is difficult to copy', but that's nothing to do with technical finesse (forget the metaphysical vocabulary of touch, feel, timing, etc.) Damn, no one make such a noise John Lee Hooker did either, and his technical abilities were a bit limited, to put it mildly. Still, or because of that, I think Hooker is one of the most efficient blues guitar players ever lived. Mick? He would never do well in any Idols competitions, full of technically perfect singers.
I think sometimes the fandom and adoration simply makes tricks. If there is something a bit extraordinary happening - say, Keith puts a bit quicker run of notes than he normally does - that is interpreted something standing out and technically striking. Although, more cooler heads might simply recognize that something any competent guitar player pretty often does, without that further notice. Another funny consequence of true adoration making tricks is that of wanting to leave the magic there, like not even wanting to know how to copy the idol's licks exactly. Simply out of adoration. This is something Keith himself mentioned about Scott Moore's solo in "I'm left, You're Right, She's Gone". So we Keith Richards fans, no matter how great guitar players we might be, we never get the riff of "Brown Sugar" right, if even that of "Satisfaction". Probably we also be the only people in the world recognizing our failure, since we hear there something, thanks to our trained, adoring ears, no one else does.
A highly competent, technically-gifted musician or someone thinking music solely in terms of technical aptness, should, if being consistent and fair, point out about to any instrumental part in a Stones recording by our principals, 'yeah, but it is pretty simple'. (Funnily, I do know such people, and they keep telling me how mediocre, even poor players all of the Stones are. But even for most of them that does not really matter, thankfully).
But doesn't that - pointing their technical mediocracy - sound trivial? You know, like missing the whole point in their music?
So I think it boils down to the fact if the part fits to the whole (and with that what kind of impression the whole does). And in that the Stones are masters, even genius occasionally.
That was also what Brian Jones was all about. Also for that reason I am thrilled hearing his parts isolated, as His Majesty has done to us.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-13 15:49 by Doxa.
What goes for the stressing the technical level of musicianship I find that generally very odd in the context of the Stones. None of them have been any master musicians in a technical level. Okay, probably Taylor's fluidity once was pretty exceptional, but hey, to shine technically in a lead guitar department of the Stones is not that big accomplishment. One doesn't exactly need to be a virtuoso for that.
Charlie and Bill... great musicians for sure, but their greatness do not derive from a technical point of view. Technically limited, but solid guys to do their job. Both Keith and Ronnie are pretty rough and even sloppy players. Especially in the case of Keith - my favourite guitar player with Jimi - his idiosyncracy might give the impression of 'Hey, this is difficult to copy', but that's nothing to do with technical finesse (forget the metaphysical vocabulary of touch, feel, timing, etc.) Damn, no one make such a noise John Lee Hooker did either, and his technical abilities were a bit limited, to put it mildly. Still, or because of that, I think Hooker is one of the most efficient blues guitar players ever lived. Mick? He would never do well in any Idols competitions, full of technically perfect singers.
I think sometimes the fandom and adoration simply makes tricks. If there is something a bit extraordinary happening - say, Keith puts a bit quicker run of notes than he normally does - that is interpreted something standing out and technically striking. Although, more cooler heads might simply recognize that something any competent guitar player pretty often does, without that further notice. Another funny consequence of true adoration making tricks is that of wanting to leave the magic there, like not even wanting to know how to copy the idol's licks exactly. Simply out of adoration. This is something Keith himself mentioned about Scott Moore's solo in "I'm left, You're Right, She's Gone". So we Keith Richards fans, no matter how great guitar players we might be, we never get the riff of "Brown Sugar" right, if even that of "Satisfaction". Probably we also be the only people in the world recognizing our failure, since we hear there something, thanks to our trained, adoring ears, no one else does.
A highly competent, technically-gifted musician or someone thinking music solely in terms of technical aptness, should, if being consistent and fair, point out about to any instrumental part in a Stones recording by our principals, 'yeah, but it is pretty simple'. (Funnily, I do know such people, and they keep telling me how mediocre, even poor players all of the Stones are. But even for most of them that does not really matter, thankfully).
But doesn't that - pointing their technical mediocracy - sound trivial? You know, like missing the whole point in their music?
So I think it boils down to the fact if the part fits to the whole (and with that what kind of impression the whole does). And in that the Stones are masters, even genius occasionally.
That was also what Brian Jones was all about. Also for that reason I am thrilled hearing his parts isolated, as His Majesty has done to us.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-13 15:49 by Doxa.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 13, 2023 16:15
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:55 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:55 by His Majesty.
Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Ps37
()
Date: September 13, 2023 16:30
Quote
Doxa
But doesn't that - pointing their technical mediocracy - sound trivial? You know, like missing the whole point in their music?
So I think it boils down to the fact if the part fits to the whole (and with that what kind of impression the whole does). And in that the Stones are masters, even genius occasionally.
That was also what Brian Jones was all about. Also for that reason I am thrilled hearing his parts isolated, as His Majesty has done to us.
- Doxa
Agree 100%.
I find I can respect/admire technical virtuosity (speed/fluidity/precision of playing) but if it doesn't make the emotional connection with me, I don't gravitate toward repeated listenings.
The song is the key element. The playing needs to serve the song, and all the virtuosity in the world won't make a song resonate with me if it can't resonate with me without it.
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