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Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 9, 2023 16:40

Quote
Kingbeebuzz
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

Without repeating myself (not allowed) -the discussion was much more on the fact that the part, and especially its sound, are very much unlike anything Brian has ever played before or after. In the discussion I also mentioned the main riff to Bitch -played by Taylor, but on the record sounding so completely different than Taylor's style, than what he played before and after. It's not so much I don't believe it's Brian and Taylor, but it's amazing to me.

Mathijs

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 9, 2023 20:13

With respect to Brian’s guitar playing, I’m not knowledgeable about guitar playing like some on this site.But to my ears he was a really good rhythm guitarist.His sense of rhythm was great.Maybe had he not died he might have gotten back to playing guitar .Maybe he would have gotten better. Look at George Harrison .On the early Beatles songs like Please Please Me and Hard Days Night.he played really simple guitar , but it was great.Later on Abbey Road and Let it Be he played more complex guitar .When Brian was playing guitar in the early 1960s none of the bands had virtuoso players

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: September 9, 2023 20:37

Quote
Kingbeebuzz
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

This thread and your web site are really good His Majesty. Thank you for all hard work.
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

I got to know Mathijs when I organized the 40th Anniversary of the (unfinished) 1964 Rolling Stones concert in the Kurhaus. He and his fellow Flip The Switch mates were obviously young guys (compared we me anywaywinking smiley), but on my request I asked them to start off with the five songs the Stones played on that memorable day in 1964. Certainly not difficult songs, but giving those songs the deep Stones feeling, they did very well! And Mathijs was on lead guitar (can't remember you did Keith riffs, Brian riffs or both winking smiley)

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: September 9, 2023 20:50

Quote
Kingbeebuzz
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

This thread and your web site are really good His Majesty. Thank you for all hard work.
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

I got to know Mathijs when I organized the 40th Anniversary of the (unfinished) 1964 Rolling Stones concert in the Kurhaus. He and his fellow Flip The Switch mates were obviously young guys (compared we me anywaywinking smiley), but on my request I asked them to start off with the five songs the Stones played on that memorable day in 1964. Certainly not difficult songs, but giving those songs the deep Stones feeling, they did very well! Trust me, I chose FTS, because they were imho the best Dutch Stones coverband and I had high expectations. And Mathijs was on lead guitar (can't remember you did Keith riffs, Brian riffs or both winking smiley). Off course The Last Time was not among those five songs, but, if it would, I am sure they would have found out through analysis, which part was Brian and which part was Keith.
Having said that, off course they were too young to know how those early day Stones fans felt the fibes they grew up with of those early (Brian Jones era) Stones songs.
It was our daily breakfast cool smiley
I could still say "who cares who did what" (because that's how we felt) but I enjoy your joined analysis efforts and I still am pleased with HM's thread!

smileys with beer

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 9, 2023 23:25

I've known for decades that the Stones were a bar band made good. They make no attempt to hide that fact. It's the chemistry and feel they bring when they're at their best that makes all the difference. Mathijs and Doxa and Bard (to name three) consistently write posts that I find absolutely fascinating and learn a great deal from. It doesn't matter if I don't agree 100% of the time, it's still enlightening. Terry's delving into roots and exotic sounds is the side of him that far outweighs his incorrigible humor. His peerless scans of photos and articles is also invaluable. His Majesty's thread is my favorite on the board. It's a true well of knowledge and pays dividends when you listen to the material again. Paul Spendel's investigations into Brian's life, right or wrong, make fascinating reading. Bjornulf gives us a site like no other. The cross-section of characters from all over the globe make for an essential supplement to the music we come back to day after day.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 9, 2023 23:31

Yes, I agree that on many of these tracks mentioned Brian's playing is very basic. But it is right for that track. And overall there is magic. I think for a band to bring magic, every ingredient has to be part of it.
We can say that DJ is a very, very good bass player. But IMO Bill Wyman brought magic to Stones tracks within their chemistry. Which I do not get from DJ.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 10, 2023 01:59

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Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:01 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: September 10, 2023 11:58

Keep up your superb work, His Majesty! thumbs up
Many of us here love it. smileys with beer

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 10, 2023 12:49

Mathijs , What is your opinion of George Harrison’s guitar playing on the early Beatles songs, 1963-1965? Like Hard Days Night or She Loves You in terms of simplicity or level of technical prowess.To me as a non musician they are great and perfectly fit the song , but deceptively,sound pretty easy to play .

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 10, 2023 13:16

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:56 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 10, 2023 13:18

Quote
His Majesty

Hi-Heel Sneakers - guitar (demonstration): [youtu.be]

A demonstration showing the essentials of what Brian Jones played. Recorded to allow for Brian's guitar idea to be heard without backing.

Listening to this I wonder who picked up the rythm guitar of Chuck Berry first, Keith or Brian ? From a historical perspective. Berry mostly played these kind of patterns in a fast way albeit more straight forward i.e. less fills.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-10 13:20 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Ps37 ()
Date: September 10, 2023 15:26

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
rootsman
Keep up your superb work, His Majesty! thumbs up
Many of us here love it. smileys with beer

Thanks, but I'm done here.

smileys with beer

I hope that you will reconsider.

I don't post much here, but I do log in almost daily, and I always check in on your threads.

I'd hate to think you would limit your contributions to this site as a result of anyone else's responses.

I'm sure many others feel similarly.

In any event, thank you for all your contributions.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 10, 2023 16:09

Agreed, best ongoing thread on the site. Ignore people you don't agree with and please just continue posting your work.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 10, 2023 17:01

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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:57 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Ps37 ()
Date: September 10, 2023 17:16

Quote
His Majesty
I don't like the new single at all. It's just being an arsehole posting that every time people discuss it.

There is a guitarist on YouTube that, aside from about 7 or so songs, dislikes the Brian era Rolling Stones. For what ever reason every few months he feels the need to tell people on my channel how bad he thinks the Stones were then. He'll use things like isolation of Paint It Black as proof of how bad they are rhythmically. He'll use the soloing on various recordings like Off The Hook to show how technically inept Keith was. "A 12 year could play this!!" Or how comical Brian's mellotron playing is.

He is free to think what he thinks. I think he should maybe just move on from something he obviously doesn't like. Thankfully, on YouTube I can moderate the comments. I'm fine with criticism of myself, Brian and the rest of the band, but the same person just saying the same negative things over and over is tedious and pointless.

There's a really weird person who uses Williard Billmore as user name. For him, Brian is the worst musician. This guy's entire mindset is that anything remotely good can't be Brian or originate from Brian. He gives the occasional kudos for playing such and such, but always in context of 'yeah, but I think he's mostly terrible'.

My experience of Mathis over many years is similar, with some extra bullshit I can't be arsed going in to. In time he turns just about every Brian thread or posting on Facebook etc in to a debate about whether Brian was mediocre or not. No different to the guy that tries to make my YouTube comments in to a debate about how crap the Stones were before Mick Taylor joined.

I have no interest in it because there is little fair minded intent regarding the thing they obviously mostly dislike. It's weird to need to make sure that dislike is voiced. It's a destructive way of going about things.

I can't do anything about it here except remove myself.

I respect your position, and I understand the sense of frustration, annoyance, etc., and it of course is not my place to determine your decision.

All I will say is that it is a shame for many of us to have the negativists to appear "victorious." But again I absolutely respect your decision.

Again, my sincere thanks for all you have contributed

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 10, 2023 17:47

Quote
His Majesty

I can't do anything about it here except remove myself.

Too bad you're playing the victim role. I would never do this here if I were you. thumbs down

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 10, 2023 17:50

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:57 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 10, 2023 22:18

Our loss if you leave IORR.

It's not just Brian. There are always fans with agendas. Down with Mick. Down with Keith (rare, but it's around all the same). Down with Ronnie because he's not Taylor. Down with Darryl because he's not Bill. Down with Chuck because he plinks. Down with Matt because of the tambourine close-up during "Brown Sugar" (okay, that's just me). Down with Don Was because he's not Rick Rubin. Down with Andrew Watt because he's Flavor of the Month. Down with back-up singers. On it goes.

At the end of the day, if you can't ignore a heckler, it's our loss more than yours.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 10, 2023 23:23

-----



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-10 23:24 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: September 10, 2023 23:23

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Our loss if you leave IORR.

It's not just Brian. There are always fans with agendas. Down with Mick. Down with Keith (rare, but it's around all the same). Down with Ronnie because he's not Taylor. Down with Darryl because he's not Bill. Down with Chuck because he plinks. Down with Matt because of the tambourine close-up during "Brown Sugar" (okay, that's just me). Down with Don Was because he's not Rick Rubin. Down with Andrew Watt because he's Flavor of the Month. Down with back-up singers. On it goes.

At the end of the day, if you can't ignore a heckler, it's our loss more than yours.
Diminishing Mick Taylor’s contribution is the most common

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 10, 2023 23:24

Quote
His Majesty

Demonstration: [youtu.be]

A demonstration showing the essentials of what Brian Jones played. Recorded to allow for Brian's guitar idea to be heard without backing.

I notice you are using an "odd" guitar fingering type, ring finger and middle finger. Keith or Taylor for example would use the ring finger only in this case ( or I'm suffering from Alzheimer-Lite). Is that your own interpretation or did Brian do this as well?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-10 23:36 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 11, 2023 00:44

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:57 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: September 11, 2023 02:45

Stay here His Majesty .....

Like where ya gonna go ?????????

People here lurv ya work ..... STAY ... Do your thing man ...



ROCKMAN

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 11, 2023 06:46

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:57 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 11, 2023 10:43

Quote
His Majesty

I can't do anything about it here except remove myself.

I'm not going out on a limb when i say that everyone here (Mathijs included) appreciates your work and this thread.

We can find other threads to discuss how good Brian was.

Don't leave, mate.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 11, 2023 12:03

Quote
His Majesty
I don't like the new single at all. It's just being an arsehole posting that every time people discuss it.

There is a guitarist on YouTube that, aside from about 7 or so songs, dislikes the Brian era Rolling Stones. For what ever reason every few months he feels the need to tell people on my channel how bad he thinks the Stones were then. He'll use things like isolation of Paint It Black as proof of how bad they are rhythmically. He'll use the soloing on various recordings like Off The Hook to show how technically inept Keith was. "A 12 year could play this!!" Or how comical Brian's mellotron playing is.

He is free to think what he thinks. I think he should maybe just move on from something he obviously doesn't like. Thankfully, on YouTube I can moderate the comments. I'm fine with criticism of myself, Brian and the rest of the band, but the same person just saying the same negative things over and over is tedious and pointless.

There's a really weird person who uses Williard Billmore as user name. For him, Brian is the worst musician. This guy's entire mindset is that anything remotely good can't be Brian or originate from Brian. He gives the occasional kudos for playing such and such, but always in context of 'yeah, but I think he's mostly terrible'.

My experience of Mathijs over many years is similar, with some extra bullshit I can't be arsed going in to. In time he turns just about every Brian thread or posting on Facebook etc in to a debate about whether Brian was mediocre or not. No different to the guy that tries to make my YouTube comments in to a debate about how crap the Stones were before Mick Taylor joined.

I have no interest in it because there is little fair minded intent, just a weird need to make sure that dislike is voiced. It's a destructive way of going about things.

I can't do anything about it here except remove myself.

Ps: I am very aware of the fact I have done similar in the past. But, nothing good comes from repeating a negative opinion for years and years about something as subjective as music and a musician's playing. This thread was not intended as a vehicle for someone who mostly has an extremely negative opinion about Brian's musicianship to once again voice it.

I am not sure if you are insinuating I might be one of these persons who respond to your Youtube or FB posts. I don't. I only ever post under my very own name, Mathijs, I have done so for the last 20 years.

There are responses here about 'a haggler' and 'ignorant fukc'. I sincerely believe that I am not either of those. My opinions are fair, educated and well thought, even if you absolutely disagree with it.

One of my opinions is that you act very touchy, something I believe you should not be on an internet message board. My criticism of Brian's guitar skills is in no certain ways criticism to you -the contrary. As I have said before, I admire your great body of work on this to show what Brian actually played and played not. Your replaying of his soprano sax is a great study on what he played on tracks like Citadel. Do I like what he played, and do I wish he never had brought that thing into a studio? Well...

Don't be so touchy, keep up the good work, and just ignore my opinions if you don't like them.

Mathijs

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 11, 2023 12:05

Quote
Taylor1
Mathijs , What is your opinion of George Harrison’s guitar playing on the early Beatles songs, 1963-1965? Like Hard Days Night or She Loves You in terms of simplicity or level of technical prowess.To me as a non musician they are great and perfectly fit the song , but deceptively,sound pretty easy to play .

I found George Harrison an absolutely great, highly skilled guitarist. If you try to play Harrison parts it always turns out to be much more technically challenging than it sounds. Great choice of odd chords as well.

Mathijs

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 11, 2023 13:39

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:58 by His Majesty.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Date: September 11, 2023 14:23

It's not so easy to play the (soprano) sax getting a good sound and hold it in tune. If someone told me it would be Brian playing it for the first time on this recording I would hardly believe it. After the interview with Brian I do. Seemingly he practised it for several years when he was young.

Quote
His Majesty




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-11 14:34 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: The Brian Jones Resource - A companion to musician Brian Jones of The Rolling Stones
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 11, 2023 14:35

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:58 by His Majesty.

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