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Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:03

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Quote
corriecas
You are entitled to your opinion.but i think there has been to much unfair hatred and Keef bashing the last few days.true he is not as good as in 1972 but then neither are we.the stones are getting old but so are we.we cant have sex like we did in 1972 can we.stones music is like sex to me.its rock n roll still divine and glorious and rough and it gives us happiness.the stones still give us these things and i am grateful for that.i think people have to show respect to Keef and be happy he is still with the stones snd with us.
Maybe he loses a bit of his touch but most times he rocks like hell.we all lose our touch cause we get old.
I will see the stones 3 more times this year and am happy Keef will rock us.please be fair and not put hate in your hearts.its only rock n roll and the stones music builds on roughness not on perfection.
Jeroen

That's right! smiling smiley

+1 thumbs up
I think this is the attitude to have and the way to look at it corriecas.

Keith's loud guitar sounds off on a mobile recording and then downloaded onto a youtube clip. I don't think these recordings can handle the power and level of noise keith's guitar makes. It comes out as this big horrible booming noise. But when people are actually at the show they tend to report a different experience.
Also Keith's mistakes seem to go almost unnoticed by the excitement of the audience.

I mean on Beast Of Burden he clearly new he messed up, but how many times does he mess up that bad ? once or twice each tour, and he more than made up for it with he and Ronnie doing some lovely interlocking guitar throughout the rest of the song.

Look i love Keith but i have to be honest, he has issues with songs like SFTD and he has deteriorated. There was a thread a few weeks ago and a poster asked for some clips of Keith ripping it up. Well it took me back to how incredible he really was, it blew me away, he was just breathtaking in his prime, we all know that or we wouldn't be here. The reality is, apart from Ronnie they have all deteriorated, Mick moves at a snails pace compared to even a few years ago. This is life, this is inevitable, its impossible to overcome. But Mick is making up for it because he is concentrating his efforts on his singing, you still get as much bang for your buck but in a different way.
But the question should be, do they still Rock ? and can Keith still improve his performances ? YES THEY DO STILL ROCK AND YES KEITH WILL IMPROVE.

Please just listen to this clip Anitapal82 and tell me that the Stones and Keith can't ROCK.
This is just power and making it right !!
[www.youtube.com]

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Date: September 14, 2017 11:04

Quote
powerage78
To deny reality is also a psycholigic reflex.
For some here, losing the Stones is losing a bit - a lot of them as well. And this is unbearable for them. Above their strength.
It means also to consider a future without Stones on stage.
So some here minimize reality.
They also relativize, and they are right, it is only music. And 2 hours of concert during it is possible to have fun, of course !
There were errors in 1969 or 1972 no ? Nothing new... eye popping smiley... confused smiley... grinning smiley
As if the overall Stones musical level was the same at this time... grinning smileygrinning smileygrinning smiley
Surrealist.

But this position is understandable. I do not blame anyone.
I do not discuss it anymore, you noticed it at least ? smileys with beer
It's hard to let go something you're so attached to...
Have fun on this Tour. smileys with beer

Or your kitchen psychology might be wrong. Maybe they just enjoy the music (and don't listen that closely to every guitar lick, like we do)? smiling smiley

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: schwonek ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:05

Quote
Anitapal82
Keith can't play guitar anymore, lets face it.

That is negative. So the subject should not read objective as you are not. But, hey, I hear there is an opening in the Beatles forum.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:10

No, really, NO..
I feel the same about AC/DC...
Axl, farewell of Malcolm, departure of Brian and Cliff ... I know in my heart that my passion exceeds all objectivity.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 11:12 by powerage78.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:12

Here we go again…

I wonder whether we need separate, “new topics” to talk about issues wich are discussed “to death”, on another threads (Harburg gig, Munich gig). Anyway…

Judging from the clips I have attended so far (and waiting for my first show of the current tour):

Keith’s performances are not bad overall. Keith is still doing what he has to do, so that the gig stays on high level. Does he do it in a rudimentary way? Some times yes, some times gives more, but he’s still into the game. And, remember, Keith often improves as the tours are going on. So, let’s see.

Is his part of contribution to the live performances smaller than it used to be? Of course. Is his part smaller than the parts of the other band’s members, proportionaly? Yes. But the particular conclusion stays miles away from the flattening claim that “Keith can’t play guitar anymore”.

After all, the Stones are excellent team players, not only experienced players. Their “team work” spirit is magnificent. That’s why they offered us great gigs when, for example, Ronnie had serious health problems witch were acting upon his performances (by the way, Ronnie plays very, very good in the last years IMO). That’s why they put on great, charming shows today. I can still feel the energy, the power of their music. Even from the clips. For the time being…

But, hey, don’t consider a few mistakes or botched intros as “proofs” that a musician “has lost his abilities”. Especially when we are talking about Keith…

How many times he botched UMT intro, during 1981 tour? Brown Sugar’s intro during Licks Tour? It’s difficult to know what happens into Keith’s mind every moment, but we know very well what happens into Keith’s soul, always: R’n’R rules there. I fully respect it. And I feel very happy seeing how many people, all over the world, appreciate what the Stones are still able to deliver.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:16

I stopped reading the posts halfway down... but mainly because I can go off my bacon-only diet as a result of the Knebworth 2018 rumors being confirmed... Now, I'm eating cheese as well and olives even, and when the supermarket opens... eggs again!....

But that's neither here nor there. I think from all the opinions presented here, we can all agree that it isn't 1981 or 1982 or even 1989 or 1995 anymore.

They're still out there because, you... we, are still here.

But it's all moving forward, and it won't go on forever... but at least the show goes on... because it has to.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:16

Of course.
And I don't say "Keith can’t play guitar anymore”.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
To deny reality is also a psycholigic reflex.
For some here, losing the Stones is losing a bit - a lot of them as well. And this is unbearable for them. Above their strength.
It means also to consider a future without Stones on stage.
So some here minimize reality.
They also relativize, and they are right, it is only music. And 2 hours of concert during it is possible to have fun, of course !
There were errors in 1969 or 1972 no ? Nothing new... eye popping smiley... confused smiley... grinning smiley
As if the overall Stones musical level was the same at this time... grinning smileygrinning smileygrinning smiley
Surrealist.

But this position is understandable. I do not blame anyone.
I do not discuss it anymore, you noticed it at least ? smileys with beer
It's hard to let go something you're so attached to...
Have fun on this Tour. smileys with beer

Or your kitchen psychology might be wrong. Maybe they just enjoy the music (and don't listen that closely to every guitar lick, like we do)? smiling smiley

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:25

Quote
stonehearted
I stopped reading the posts halfway down... but mainly because I can go off my bacon-only diet as a result of the Knebworth 2018 rumors being confirmed... Now, I'm eating cheese as well and olives even, and when the supermarket opens... eggs again!....

But that's neither here nor there. I think from all the opinions presented here, we can all agree that it isn't 1981 or 1982 or even 1989 or 1995 anymore.

They're still out there because, you... we, are still here.

But it's all moving forward, and it won't go on forever... but at least the show goes on... because it has to.

All I see is another confirmation of the rumours...not the rumours being confirmed!

"The Rolling Stones to headline huge new 2018 festival in Knebworth"? (note the question mark)

and

"Concert giants AEG are rumoured to be launching a huge new festival at Knebworth in 2018 – headlined by The Rolling Stones".

Sounds a step closer to being a reality then it previously was, but still no absolute confirmation.

> Knebworth


Anyhow, enjoy your bacon, cheese, olives, and eggs...and the Rolling Stones!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 11:27 by Hairball.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:28

Quote
powerage78
To deny reality is also a psycholigic reflex.
For some here, losing the Stones is losing a bit - a lot of them as well. And this is unbearable for them. Above their strength.
It means also to consider a future without Stones on stage.
So some here minimize reality.
They also relativize, and they are right, it is only music. And 2 hours of concert during it is possible to have fun, of course !
There were errors in 1969 or 1972 no ? Nothing new... eye popping smiley... confused smiley... grinning smiley
As if the overall Stones musical level was the same at this time... grinning smileygrinning smileygrinning smiley
Surrealist.

But this position is understandable. I do not blame anyone.
I do not discuss it anymore, you noticed it at least ? smileys with beer
It's hard to let go something you're so attached to...
Have fun on this Tour. smileys with beer

Nice post poweage78. This is food for thought.

I said in a post about the Stones getting old yesterday that this man came out of a Stones show real excited and an interviewer said to him ''why do you love this band so much ? The man said ''because while the Stones are still touring i am not old''.

To some extent i think we can be in denial about this band. When they can't do it anymore, it means we are next. When Keith deteriorates, maybe i will next. Its depressing to think about but its true. We want to see the Stones deny age and deny reality, they are the epitome of our own existence and we want them to continue, so that in turn so will we.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Date: September 14, 2017 11:29

Quote
powerage78
Of course.
And I don't say "Keith can’t play guitar anymore”.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
To deny reality is also a psycholigic reflex.
For some here, losing the Stones is losing a bit - a lot of them as well. And this is unbearable for them. Above their strength.
It means also to consider a future without Stones on stage.
So some here minimize reality.
They also relativize, and they are right, it is only music. And 2 hours of concert during it is possible to have fun, of course !
There were errors in 1969 or 1972 no ? Nothing new... eye popping smiley... confused smiley... grinning smiley
As if the overall Stones musical level was the same at this time... grinning smileygrinning smileygrinning smiley
Surrealist.

But this position is understandable. I do not blame anyone.
I do not discuss it anymore, you noticed it at least ? smileys with beer
It's hard to let go something you're so attached to...
Have fun on this Tour. smileys with beer

Or your kitchen psychology might be wrong. Maybe they just enjoy the music (and don't listen that closely to every guitar lick, like we do)? smiling smiley

Instead of being sad, thinking that we are losing them, I think people are astonished that they're still here, playing for us. A major difference.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stonerolling ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:33

I got in to the Stones because of Keith's rhythm guitar work. It blew me away the work on those early albums. As time has gone by the rhythm work has evolved in to what he calls 'ancient art of weaving', the fills thrown back and forth with Woody. To an extent that works, but it does mean we lose some of that drive/push'n'pull that we used to have. Given where he's at now you could argue he focus on delivering purely rhythm and let Wood fill - at the moment Ron is covering everything. I'm not sure that arrangement would fulfill him enough... he enjoys the interplay, keeps it interesting for him.
I'm not sure there are many people who will walk in to Keith's dressing room and tell him how to play....
In two weeks I'm at my first show since 2012. I know there will be flaws (there always have been!!!) but I'm there to watch legends of rock n roll seeing how far they can go. Occasionally there are moments of brilliance and it is in that moment the hairs on your neck stand up.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
Of course.
And I don't say "Keith can’t play guitar anymore”.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
powerage78
To deny reality is also a psycholigic reflex.
For some here, losing the Stones is losing a bit - a lot of them as well. And this is unbearable for them. Above their strength.
It means also to consider a future without Stones on stage.
So some here minimize reality.
They also relativize, and they are right, it is only music. And 2 hours of concert during it is possible to have fun, of course !
There were errors in 1969 or 1972 no ? Nothing new... eye popping smiley... confused smiley... grinning smiley
As if the overall Stones musical level was the same at this time... grinning smileygrinning smileygrinning smiley
Surrealist.

But this position is understandable. I do not blame anyone.
I do not discuss it anymore, you noticed it at least ? smileys with beer
It's hard to let go something you're so attached to...
Have fun on this Tour. smileys with beer

Or your kitchen psychology might be wrong. Maybe they just enjoy the music (and don't listen that closely to every guitar lick, like we do)? smiling smiley

Instead of being sad, thinking that we are losing them, I think people are astonished that they're still here, playing for us. A major difference.

Since you put it that way, it could be a combination of both - bittersweet.
Miraculous they're still touring, yet a bit of sadness knowing the're in the sunset of their career and that nothing lasts forever.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-14 11:36 by Hairball.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Date: September 14, 2017 11:39

Yeah, that's another way of putting it, Hairball.

However, I'm sure most of the people at the shows don't find it that bad – that they feel that sadness while they're there. At least, for me, that feeling usually sets in in-between tours.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:42

Dame Kiri Te Kawana, the acclaimed Soprano has just announced her retirement from stage work (but may continue to record). She is 73 years old and recognises that her vocal powers are not what they were. She teaches vocal skills to aspiring opera singers and probably sees what they have (at their age), and she no longer has.

Rock music is totally different. Look at Chuck Berry's career: no new material for 35 years, still touring well into his 80s, playing the same old oldies with much diminished guitar skills.
Did the fans worry? No they still turned up to the gigs, just the same.

Post 1973, Elvis was pretty much washed up, in the later years his concerts were embarrassing (The Stones are nowhere near that stage yet). Still the fans came.

The Stones will continue as long as their health allows them to. In all honesty I don't think technical skills come into it.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:44

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
ouroux58
Quote
Anitapal82
Keith can't play guitar anymore, lets face it. Arthritis or age or hitting his head. It's over people. I love the band as much as anyone but he can't do it. Watching recent shows is excruciating , I am embarrassed for him . It time to retire gracefully. Most songs now he is simplifying his part until it's virtually non existent. Recent gimme shelter intros , last shows beast of burden are clear evidence. Check out midnight rambler from Munich his tentative playing almost makes it collapse , maybe the worst version I have ever heard. And his guitar solos OMG. listen to honky tony women solos from Hamburg or Munich and say I m negative. I am objective. Also the way he strokes the fretboard searching for what to play constantly is a worry. Keith has been one of the greatest rock stars of all time and it has to end one day . That day has come , unfortunately. Ok I have had my say. Now let me have it . I know some people on this forum cant tolerate a less than glowing review, and are sycophantic , well I am not. Dean goodmans review from Munich was spot on , Keith showed up , he was there but barely.

Totaly agree with you. On these board, many guys are now autistic. More Keith will make mistakes, more he will be the King of riff and rock'n'roll, rebel etc, for these guys.
In the past I would have already get tickets in my pocket for the 3 paris shows and perhaps one or two more in other countries but at this day, I always waiting to know what I will do when they'll arrive in Paris.

I could have understood this if I went to the gig, I had no friends, I was shown to a single booth (where I couldn't see or hear anyone else), was handed a headset and my main objective was to analyse the show: bar by bar, note by note etc...

However, when seeing live music with a group of friends, a few sour guitar notes won't take away from the overall experience.

OMG DP by what you say I understand that you dont know any better, you delude yourself, you are autistic, if presented with spaghetti you would probably think it is cherry pie! you know that..

er uhm by the way, I do agreee with you

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 11:46

grinning smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Swayed1967 ()
Date: September 14, 2017 11:58

I’d love for them to play ‘Torn and Frayed’ to see if Jagger could keep a straight face while singing ‘Just as long as the guitar plays.’ Or in a moment of rare honesty would he slip in ‘just as long as the Germans pay?’

But having listened to several songs from the recent concerts I don’t think they sound much worse than the last time I saw them during the Bigger Bang tour. But when the highlight of the show is ‘Dancing with Mr. D’, undoubtedly the worst song released during the 68-73 period, I realize that I’ve heard the old warhorses once too often. I would think everyone has but obviously that’s not the case...

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Date: September 14, 2017 11:58

Quote
laertisflash
Here we go again…

I wonder whether we need separate, “new topics” to talk about issues wich are discussed “to death”, on another threads (Harburg gig, Munich gig). Anyway…

Judging from the clips I have attended so far (and waiting for my first show of the current tour):

Keith’s performances are not bad overall. Keith is still doing what he has to do, so that the gig stays on high level. Does he do it in a rudimentary way? Some times yes, some times gives more, but he’s still into the game. And, remember, Keith often improves as the tours are going on. So, let’s see.

Is his part of contribution to the live performances smaller than it used to be? Of course. Is his part smaller than the parts of the other band’s members, proportionaly? Yes. But the particular conclusion stays miles away from the flattening claim that “Keith can’t play guitar anymore”.

After all, the Stones are excellent team players, not only experienced players. Their “team work” spirit is magnificent. That’s why they offered us great gigs when, for example, Ronnie had serious health problems witch were acting upon his performances (by the way, Ronnie plays very, very good in the last years IMO). That’s why they put on great, charming shows today. I can still feel the energy, the power of their music. Even from the clips. For the time being…

But, hey, don’t consider a few mistakes or botched intros as “proofs” that a musician “has lost his abilities”. Especially when we are talking about Keith…

How many times he botched UMT intro, during 1981 tour? Brown Sugar’s intro during Licks Tour? It’s difficult to know what happens into Keith’s mind every moment, but we know very well what happens into Keith’s soul, always: R’n’R rules there. I fully respect it. And I feel very happy seeing how many people, all over the world, appreciate what the Stones are still able to deliver.

thumbs upthumbs upthumbs up

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Date: September 14, 2017 12:00

Quote
stonerolling
Occasionally there are moments of brilliance and it is in that moment the hairs on your neck stand up.

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: September 14, 2017 12:03

Thanks JJF5.

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 14, 2017 12:03

Quote
Hairball
All I see is another confirmation of the rumours...not the rumours being confirmed!

"The Rolling Stones to headline huge new 2018 festival in Knebworth"? (note the question mark)

and

"Concert giants AEG are rumoured to be launching a huge new festival at Knebworth in 2018 – headlined by The Rolling Stones".

Sounds a step closer to being a reality then it previously was, but still no absolute confirmation.

> Knebworth


Anyhow, enjoy your bacon, cheese, olives, and eggs...and the Rolling Stones!
I see -- OK, I'd better add some fruit and vegetables to the shopping list then, if I ever want to live to even hear about the alleged Knebworth gig! Thanks, you're a lifesaver -- literally! smiling smiley

Re: I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: September 14, 2017 12:04

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Quote
stonerolling
Occasionally there are moments of brilliance and it is in that moment the hairs on your neck stand up.

thumbs up

+1 thumbs upsmileys with beerhot smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 12:05

Quote
laertisflash
Thanks JJF5.

you are welcome.What you write is realistic but not "look how bad it is" attitude that unfortunately sometimes is posted by some people here.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: September 14, 2017 12:15

Quote
jumpingjackflash5
Quote
laertisflash
Thanks JJF5.

you are welcome.What you write is realistic but not "look how bad it is" attitude that unfortunately sometimes is posted by some people here.

Agreed. I think somewhere between Keith can't play anymore and Keith is still fantastic lies the truth.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 12:17

There's no truth, but I really liked this one.





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 12:24

thumbs up
Quote
DandelionPowderman
There's no truth, but I really liked this one.





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 13:34

<I am not Not negative just objective Keith can barely play guitar>

He could have fooled me, but you're probably right...





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 14, 2017 13:42

Keith's playing is not much worse than since the last couple of years. My main problem with the last two shows is the speed. Everything is played soooooo sloooooowww.....man, Miss You almost topples over at 23 BPM....

Mathijs

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 14, 2017 13:48

Quote
Mathijs
Keith's playing is not much worse than since the last couple of years. My main problem with the last two shows is the speed. Everything is played soooooo sloooooowww.....man, Miss You almost topples over at 23 BPM....

Mathijs

Blame it on the speed of the studio recordings smiling smiley That's what's happening: Chuck counts in on the «correct» beats per minute..

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Anitapal82 ()
Date: September 14, 2017 13:52

Good example DP. Keith playing much less on songs than he used to. In the verses in the clip of SFM you posted he is playing half of what he normally did . One guitar slash now instead of more

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