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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: guitarbastard ()
Date: September 17, 2017 13:57

Quote
JMARKO
The original poster is spot on with his assessment.

When I went to see the Stones I went to enjoy their playing and listen to them.
What I have seen and heard on this tour is once again a downgrade from the previous tours:

1. Song tempos are still mid-tempo to slow on most numbers. While Charlie still seems to play well, the songs are obviously kept at a moderate tempo.

2. Keith is missing more notes, can't sustain riffs, drops out, comes in on/with wrong notes.

I think the tempos are slowed down specifically for Keith to be able to keep up. (And, sorry, but blaming it on technology is ludicrous - no phone or camera can create the inconsistencies in his playing - especially since many times you can see it with your eyes).

The choppiness of his playing results in most of the grooves being lost, the continuity of the guitar parts gets interrupted and thrown off. Great example are the solos in Sympathy. Sometimes he hits the first two - four notes and then the next thing you hear is some fumbled half/missed notes, a pause, then he tries to find his way back in. Plays another short lick, pause, pose and smile, flutter a couple of notes that may or may not hit or fit, are hopefully in key, repeat.
Similar with his rhythm playing. He hits some of the cords, misses or half plays others, loses his place, tries to find his way back.

I am plenty familiar with Keith's playing through the years - about leaving spaces, creating tension etc. That's not what he's doing anymore. His playing has deteriorated to the point where he can't build that necessary tension in the music. The misses and drop outs instead create confusion and a jarring, disjointed, incomplete feel. The first half of Midnight Rambler is often an example of this. It wanders and meanders all over the place. Keith comes in and out with riffs that are often misplaced or cut short.

Would I rather see a half-assed approximation of Midnight Rambler instead of not at all? That's not for me. I'm all for them growing, changing, and growing old gracefully. I just don't feel like that's what they are doing or what I am seeing/hearing.

I'm not comparing him to 72, 78, 81, or even 97-2002. I'm just listening to his playing. Sure, the Stones have always pushed the envelope, been a little sloppy, rough on the edges. Part of their great appeal. But he simply can't play the parts anymore.

For some people it is about the "experience" of seeing The Stones, and these kind of details don't matter and "yay Keith!" for even still just getting up there and performing. For me, it's about the music and listening to them play. But between the tempos, Keith playing, Mick's continued reliance on Bernard to fill him out - it sometimes feels like the entire show is an effort to protect Mick's voice, and the staid setlists I don't feel the passionate desire to see my favorite band live anymore.

J

(I do agree with some of the folks who have mentioned that Ronnie is playing well these days)

couldnt agree more. sad but true. i will still go to see them in zurich.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: September 17, 2017 18:00

Just saw the Brown Sugar clip from Spielberg - and it makes me genuinely worried about dementia. I remember reading about the guitarist from AC/DC that was afflicted practicing riffs they'd played for 40 years before every show.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: September 17, 2017 18:34

Quote
Send It To me
Just saw the Brown Sugar clip from Spielberg - and it makes me genuinely worried about dementia. I remember reading about the guitarist from AC/DC that was afflicted practicing riffs they'd played for 40 years before every show.
[www.youtube.com]

Not sure what you're referring to honestly...I mean, the bar is set so low these days that anything other than a complete breakdown of a song is a win, but he's playing decently here. The timing is dragging all over the place...he's lost that intuitive sense of playing the riff just perfectly in time with the beat, but he never loses the thread of the song at any point.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: JMARKO ()
Date: September 17, 2017 18:47

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
Send It To me
Just saw the Brown Sugar clip from Spielberg - and it makes me genuinely worried about dementia. I remember reading about the guitarist from AC/DC that was afflicted practicing riffs they'd played for 40 years before every show.
[www.youtube.com]

Not sure what you're referring to honestly...I mean, the bar is set so low these days that anything other than a complete breakdown of a song is a win, but he's playing decently here. The timing is dragging all over the place...he's lost that intuitive sense of playing the riff just perfectly in time with the beat, but he never loses the thread of the song at any point.

Agree. But the whole performance seems like a struggle.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MelBelli ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:10

Seems to me he's having issues with hearing and reflexes; he's not reacting in time to what he's hearing.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: coffeepotman ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:28

Quote
JMARKO
Quote
keefriff99
Quote
Send It To me
Just saw the Brown Sugar clip from Spielberg - and it makes me genuinely worried about dementia. I remember reading about the guitarist from AC/DC that was afflicted practicing riffs they'd played for 40 years before every show.
[www.youtube.com]

Not sure what you're referring to honestly...I mean, the bar is set so low these days that anything other than a complete breakdown of a song is a win, but he's playing decently here. The timing is dragging all over the place...he's lost that intuitive sense of playing the riff just perfectly in time with the beat, but he never loses the thread of the song at any point.

Agree. But the whole performance seems like a struggle.


That is painful (and sad) to my ears

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: engerling23 ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:42

[www.youtube.com]

something is not right. Keith seems to be very pissed.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:45

Quote
engerling23
[www.youtube.com]

something is not right. Keith seems to be very pissed.

Seems like Charlie came in on the wrong beat, I have to hear the full intro to confirm.

Not a bad version overall.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: engerling23 ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:46

seems like he is yelling "f*** off" to jagger

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: September 17, 2017 19:59

I think it happened what Marclaff wrote on Spielberg's thread: "For me, Mick begins too early, Keith had to play an other "round around" to finish his intro".

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: September 17, 2017 20:08

Quote
laertisflash
I think it happened what Marclaff wrote on Spielberg's thread: "For me, Mick begins too early, Keith had to play an other "round around" to finish his intro".

Yes Mick started to sing with Charlie's beat instead of waiting for Keith. However Mick saved the song by following Charlie since it would have been a mess otherwise.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-17 20:10 by TheBlockbuster.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: September 17, 2017 20:26

Quote
engerling23
[www.youtube.com]

something is not right. Keith seems to be very pissed.

Shouting at someone to his right and stops playing, and then shouting and grumpily walking towards his left leaving Ronnie to carry the load.
I don't think it had anything to do with Charlie, but something screwy with the sound of his guitar.
Whatever the case, it leaves the song in a shambles.confused smiley

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: z ()
Date: September 17, 2017 20:39

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
laertisflash
I think it happened what Marclaff wrote on Spielberg's thread: "For me, Mick begins too early, Keith had to play an other "round around" to finish his intro".

Yes Mick started to sing with Charlie's beat instead of waiting for Keith. However Mick saved the song by following Charlie since it would have been a mess otherwise.

Yes, it's Mick and Charlie against Keith and Ronnie. I think Ronnie tries to signal to Charlie to turn the beat around, until Mick comes in and joins Charlie.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: September 17, 2017 21:13

Mick and Chuck made an instant executive decision, presumably going with Charlie's beat. A little later Ronnie walked over to Darryl to pat him on the shoulder as if "don't worry, not your fault." Keith's reaction was something you'd expect from a 5-year-old who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. But it was fun to watch.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 17, 2017 21:28

It used to be the band follows Keith, now it's Charlie. I guess that means times have changed.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: donvis ()
Date: September 17, 2017 21:38

Watch the Blu-ray of the sticky fingers show. Watch Keith play the intro to you gotta move. He sounds pretty damn good there and that was only two years ago. The Brown sugar piece you're criticizing sounds to me like he couldn't hear himself.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 17, 2017 21:45

Quote
donvis
Watch the Blu-ray of the sticky fingers show. Watch Keith play the intro to you gotta move. He sounds pretty damn good there and that was only two years ago. The Brown sugar piece you're criticizing sounds to me like he couldn't hear himself.

Except he plays the slide licks in minor instead smiling smiley

It's cool anyway thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: September 17, 2017 21:48

While the "new" sax player Karl can obviously play, that solo in Brown Sugar is...not very good in comparison to the classic Bobby solos from the past.
Maybe he was also distracted by all of the tension and chaos on stage.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: z ()
Date: September 17, 2017 22:17

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
donvis
Watch the Blu-ray of the sticky fingers show. Watch Keith play the intro to you gotta move. He sounds pretty damn good there and that was only two years ago. The Brown sugar piece you're criticizing sounds to me like he couldn't hear himself.

Except he plays the slide licks in minor instead smiling smiley

It's cool anyway thumbs up

He played in minor in '75/6 too.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: September 17, 2017 22:30

Quote
Hairball
While the "new" sax player Karl can obviously play, that solo in Brown Sugar is...not very good in comparison to the classic Bobby solos from the past.
Maybe he was also distracted by all of the tension and chaos on stage.

As much as I loved Bobby Keys sound I still think it's fun to hear a new fresh improvised solo every night, Bobby played the same solo note for note every night.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: strat72 ()
Date: September 17, 2017 22:36

Quote
engerling23
[www.youtube.com]

something is not right. Keith seems to be very pissed.

Pissed as in pissed off, or as in pissed (drunk)? Perhaps both. Charlie seems off as well........ Also, the worst Brown Sugar sax solo I've ever heard. I thought this new guy had chops? Dont give me any of this "he's doing it different" nonsense either. He's doing it badly, very badly.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 17, 2017 22:53

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
Hairball
While the "new" sax player Karl can obviously play, that solo in Brown Sugar is...not very good in comparison to the classic Bobby solos from the past.
Maybe he was also distracted by all of the tension and chaos on stage.

As much as I loved Bobby Keys sound I still think it's fun to hear a new fresh improvised solo every night, Bobby played the same solo note for note every night.

Which could be filed under "R" for reliable.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 17, 2017 22:54

Quote
z
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
donvis
Watch the Blu-ray of the sticky fingers show. Watch Keith play the intro to you gotta move. He sounds pretty damn good there and that was only two years ago. The Brown sugar piece you're criticizing sounds to me like he couldn't hear himself.

Except he plays the slide licks in minor instead smiling smiley

It's cool anyway thumbs up

He played in minor in '75/6 too.

Without a slide, and a different arrangement, though.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 17, 2017 22:56

Quote
DeanGoodman
Mick and Chuck made an instant executive decision, presumably going with Charlie's beat. A little later Ronnie walked over to Darryl to pat him on the shoulder as if "don't worry, not your fault." Keith's reaction was something you'd expect from a 5-year-old who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. But it was fun to watch.

Ronnie tried to make Charlie adjust his beat by jumping up and down to Keith's rhythm.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 17, 2017 22:57

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
Hairball
While the "new" sax player Karl can obviously play, that solo in Brown Sugar is...not very good in comparison to the classic Bobby solos from the past.
Maybe he was also distracted by all of the tension and chaos on stage.

As much as I loved Bobby Keys sound I still think it's fun to hear a new fresh improvised solo every night, Bobby played the same solo note for note every night.

It's almost sacrilege, but I agree.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: September 17, 2017 23:02

smileys with beer

As much as I loved Keith sound I still think it's fun to hear a new fresh improvised solo or intro every night, Keith played the same solo note for note every night too often.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 17, 2017 23:03

You know, something struck me about Keith's playing in these recent shows, at least from the few clips I've seen.

For the intro to Gimme Shelter in Austria and his lead playing on Slipping Away in Hamburg -- it seems somehow stilted, erratic.

Then he goes into his posing, as if to try and summon the Keef of younger days and force the rhythms back into focus.

To be honest, he plays like a man who has only 85% to 90% recovered from a stroke.

If only he hadn't fallen off that shrub and hit his head, and, further, delayed seeking medical attention.

Those here who dislike such critical thought, such "negativity" from us so-called computer chair critics, will say that you have to be there, and you'll still have a great time.

Well, when I'm at a concert I'm not there for that big crowdgasm -- I'm there for the music. I don't drink before a show, nor during -- I don't even dance. I just stay still and quiet, taking in all the vibrations of live music.

And if your rhythm guitarist can no longer hold down a sustained, reliable rhythm guitar, then it will affect my concert-going experience, because the overall flow of those live musical vibrations go from being transcendent to chaotic.

It's something I would notice.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: September 17, 2017 23:14

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
DeanGoodman
Mick and Chuck made an instant executive decision, presumably going with Charlie's beat. A little later Ronnie walked over to Darryl to pat him on the shoulder as if "don't worry, not your fault." Keith's reaction was something you'd expect from a 5-year-old who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. But it was fun to watch.

Ronnie tried to make Charlie adjust his beat by jumping up and down to Keith's rhythm.

Hmm. Guess that's why Ronnie wears big sneakers. It's like reconstructing a crime scene. And the dynamics are fascinating. Keith by default blames Mick rather than the likely suspect.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: September 17, 2017 23:16

<To be honest, he plays like a man who has only 85% to 90% recovered from a stroke>

I don't know if that is very controversial. We know he had a stroke (or something similar), and don't know if he has recovered 100 percent.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Night Manager ()
Date: September 17, 2017 23:28

...strange. I felt the Spielberg version of "Start me up" was the best I ever heard. What`s wrong with those "Brown Sugar" details? It`s a ragged old rock`n`roll band, and they are playing much better than 1982. There you go. Keith holds up as best he can and carries the sound in a big way, if you can`t enjoy it any longer why not switch to the australian pink floyd show

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