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Rocky Dijon
Many an elderly person struggles with controlling their kidneys. Elderly people who drink even more so. There are few who risk doing so in a packed stadium, having it filmed by several thousand phones, uploaded online, and then have message boards devoted to them with people commenting about it for their children to read. And then they get to get up and try it again a few nights later and continue doing so for the next two months. If that's what happened a few nights ago, I would prefer to let the man keep his dignity.

Sorry to be a downer about it, Hairball. Just my opinion. And yes, I realize you were just being witty. Your humor and timing are as sharp as ever so forgive me if I seem a killjoy about that topic. I'm not surprised if there is more evidence of Keith struggling with his instrument than in the past. It's to be expected, though others sometimes react as if it isn't understandable at all. The other situation is one I just think is below the belt in every sense. And yes, I know you meant no harm. You're a true fan, a good guy, and a quick wit so please don't take this as an attack on you.

No worries Rocky, but it should be clarified that I was being more genuine and sincere vs. humorous and witty as it may have come across. After reading about his debilitating arthritis, his decades of drug and alcohol abuse, his near death fall from a tree (or shrub), the possibility that he had a stroke, a hole drilled in his skull, etc., etc., etc., I thought it was a positive amidst all the negativity. Nitpicking about his inferior guitar playing seems almost trivial at this point, but he puts himself out there in the line of fire, and criticism comes with the territory. Not only am I grateful he survived his head injury and/or stroke (?!) along with all the other crap he struggles with, I hope he can lead a healthy productive life in every way despite all of the handicaps he has to deal with. Just hoping none of the tabloid rags publish a picture of Keith and his wet pants with a tasteless headline.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

He's Rusty... and 70 something, PISSES ME OFF to hear the over critical critique's - its @#$%& Rock and Roll Live, WTF, and its being played by one of the guys who invented it - he'll come around by mid tour, and if it doesnt work for you, unsubscribe and go see U2, if they dont cancel the show cause theyre scared.

Saw Chuck Berry a few times towards the end, was tough to see, but he loved what he was doing, as did everyone in the audience. Those times when he hit those notes we all know and love made it worth listening through any mistakes.

This is Keith Richards we're talking about here, the man deserves to do whatever he wants to do, and as long as he keeps giving us what he's got, I believe the petty naysayers should pipe down and show some respect to Rock and Roll, and its evolution thats playing out right before our eyes, thank God.

Chelskeith

.... Pissin ya pants that's nothing ... comin up with a good excuse is the shitty bit ...

Had ta break hard with a coffee in ma hand ... Damn sprinkler went off as I was staggering by ..... didn't realize I was standin' near a puddle ...



ROCKMAN

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keefriff99

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stonehearted
If only he hadn't fallen off that shrub and hit his head, and, further, delayed seeking medical attention.

Do people still honestly believe he fell off a tree?

I think he flat-out had a stroke (perhaps induced by his cocaine intake), and their PR people concocted a semi-humorous anecdote to make it seem less dire.

Does anyone else feel this way?

+1

Keith Richards guitar playing?

Well, sometimes it's pretty good still






[www.youtube.com]

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Rocky Dijon
I prefer to wonder just why Matt Clifford is onstage except that he blows well. The French horn I mean.

LOL. Matt Clifford usually blows quite nice but sometimes he sucks. In Spielberg eg.
[www.youtube.com]

This thread largely consists of regurgitated utter drivel, spanning the last ten years !

The only difference now being that there's even less fact to accompany the endless conjecture

It's making me a bit cross now



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-18 14:55 by Spud.

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DandelionPowderman
They are old! Charlie is playing less (and stiffer), Ronnie's leads are ok, but his rhythm playing is hit and miss, Keith is unpredictable and Mick forgets words/has problems with his timing (because of bad hearing?).

In spite of all the above, they still manage to put on a GREAT show. That's quite an accomplishment.

And I don't wanna hear the «they have to be professional to charge us that kind of money»-argument. It's us who want to go see them, not them who are forcing us to the stadiums. Supply and demand.

All the criticism that comes now, could have been said in 2002. Still, they're out there doing their best, and tens of thousands love it everynight.

So, who's right? A keyboard warrior with supposed superior skills or musical udnerstanding, or the people who went to the shows and enjoyed themselves.

It's music, not an exam.

Well, I am sorry to say this, but what you just wrote is the worst advertisement you could give for any band. It sure doesn't convince me I should have bought tickets.
The youtube links sent by jumpingjackflash5 didn't help either. From those clips my guess is that Mick might miss words/timing mainly because he can't rely on Keith's guitar anymore.

He had brain surgery for a cerebral bleed induced by a head injury - detail has been provided by the neurosurgeon who did it

I wasn't at the show but watched a heap of clips on YouTube. OMG! With all the heat Keef played his greatest most emotional Slipping Away ever. From the last show. Brings tears near the end, a man who has given his all for us digging deep and laying it all on the line. Thanks Keef

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman
They are old! Charlie is playing less (and stiffer), Ronnie's leads are ok, but his rhythm playing is hit and miss, Keith is unpredictable and Mick forgets words/has problems with his timing (because of bad hearing?).

In spite of all the above, they still manage to put on a GREAT show. That's quite an accomplishment.

And I don't wanna hear the «they have to be professional to charge us that kind of money»-argument. It's us who want to go see them, not them who are forcing us to the stadiums. Supply and demand.

All the criticism that comes now, could have been said in 2002. Still, they're out there doing their best, and tens of thousands love it everynight.

So, who's right? A keyboard warrior with supposed superior skills or musical udnerstanding, or the people who went to the shows and enjoyed themselves.

It's music, not an exam.

Well, I am sorry to say this, but what you just wrote is the worst advertisement you could give for any band. It sure doesn't convince me I should have bought tickets.
The youtube links sent by jumpingjackflash5 didn't help either. From those clips my guess is that Mick might miss words/timing mainly because he can't rely on Keith's guitar anymore.

It wasn't meant as an advertisement.

You don't start singing YCAGWYW on the wrong beat because of Keith's playing. Mick doesn't have Keith in his in-ears anyway, as we have heard from bootlegs with his monitoring as the source. Keep in mind that getting good monitoring on a huge stage is hard, even for young people. If your hearing starts failing you - just a bit - it can be hard. Ask Brian Johnson..

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers





[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-18 15:34 by DandelionPowderman.

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RobertJohnson
The members of the Buena Vista Social Club were even older, but they were able to play their instruments accurately and ingeniously. The decline of Keith is only pitiful ... Sorry, I've always been a great fan of the band, but meanwhile they are only a caricature of their own. I'm not satisfied with occasional charming passages, if the rest of a song is a mess. The journey should come to a halfway worthy end ...

I agree. The same goes for the Skatalites. Or Toots Hubbard. They get a bit slower and play less notes but they still know what they're doing without bum notes or major xxxx-ups.

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

<The decline of Keith is only pitiful ... Sorry, I've always been a great fan of the band, but meanwhile they are only a caricature of their own>

Everybody wants the Stones to play great. However, messing up songs on stage is something they have always done – at least after 1966.

The Keith-bashing (if there was any hold in it) should have come already in 1994, when the obvious decline started, and not now, imo. Today, he's an old man, and he's doing the best he can.

I was watching this instagram feed from Patti from the back of the stage. We get a better view of how things are, I thought. There's a guy giving everything he's got on stage. I don't think we can expect more of him, really

[www.instagram.com]

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.

Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-18 16:25 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.

Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...

SSC is rocking! I love it. 80s Stones punk.

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schwonek

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.

Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...

SSC is rocking! I love it. 80s Stones punk.

If that one rocks, how come the Spielberg BS doesn't? Both fall apart, for the very same musical reasons.

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.

Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...

I wouldn't say that the big difference is cocaine or old age. Rather a Keith that still commands (albeit wrongly in SSC, although I'm not sure how much it's his' or Charlie's mistake) or only a Keith that is just playing about 10% of what he used to do. Take that clip from Play With Fire. Ronnie is doing a fine job, the rest is Mick and Chuck Leavell. Where is Keith?

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

[...]

And you would never ever consider seeing the Stones based on this She's So Cold either, right? (starts at 3:08) I'm sure there examples from every tour. The difference now is that every chord they play is put under the microscope, because of cell phones and computers

I actually love that "She's So Cold" version, and it sure would NOT keep me from buying a ticket at all. Yes, they mess up and Mick saves the day, but clearly (and I know you see this clearly too), the way they mess up there is completely different from what is going wrong now. You know it, I know it, it's clear for everyone to see.

But I am a bit surprised, because you've been posting quite a number of clips to "show" that they are still sounding great, and I am saying this not to be negative or nasty, but not a single one I have been able to sit out. Actually, I got a bit emotional even, seeing Keith so sad and lost on stage and sounding so useless and wrong in each song. But okay, I can understand that it's not nice to read this sort of thing so I won't go on harping about it. I´m just surprised, but also sad and worried for them, because how will this do them any good?

Of course I do! But the difference is that it doesn't matter for me how they mess it up. That SSC is unlistenable, just like the BS-intro was in Spielberg.

Cocaine or old age? Best of two evils? Nah, bad is bad...

I wouldn't say that the big difference is cocaine or old age. Rather a Keith that still commands (albeit wrongly in SSC, although I'm not sure how much it's his' or Charlie's mistake) or only a Keith that is just playing about 10% of what he used to do. Take that clip from Play With Fire. Ronnie is doing a fine job, the rest is Mick and Chuck Leavell. Where is Keith?

The same thing happens in both clips (Wembley 1982 and Spielberg 2017). Keith is in command (at first), but is eventually ignored by Mick to get the rhythm back on track again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-18 16:41 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPQEbL1IAx8

LOL! Oh wow...Charlie and Bill's reactions were priceless.

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPQEbL1IAx8

LOL! Oh wow...Charlie and Bill's reactions were priceless.

It's so funny that they mostly film close ups of their faces

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DandelionPowderman


Everybody wants the Stones to play great. However, messing up songs on stage is something they have always done – at least after 1966.

The Keith-bashing (if there was any hold in it) should have come already in 1994, when the obvious decline started, and not now, imo. Today, he's an old man, and he's doing the best he can.

I was watching this instagram feed from Patti from the back of the stage. We get a better view of how things are, I thought. There's a guy giving everything he's got on stage. I don't think we can expect more of him, really

[www.instagram.com]

Wow, first time I've heard how slowly they're doing "Happy" now, too.

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPQEbL1IAx8

LOL! Oh wow...Charlie and Bill's reactions were priceless.

One of those rare smiles from Bill...
I also like that huge grin of Ronnie when things are back on track again.

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Spud
This thread largely consists of regurgitated utter drivel, spanning the last ten years !

The only difference now being that there's even less fact to accompany the endless conjecture

It's making me a bit cross now

Yeah, but you gotta hand it to bv... He knows perfectly how to canalize, concentrate & isolate 'drivel' (a.o.) into oblivion... (see also: iorr.org )
...gotta lov'im, for that. ><

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Rocky Dijon
Not factual, there appeared to be a wet spot at the opening night. Chatoyancy said he spilled his drink on himself during the show. Others speculate an accident. It's the sort of thing we do here. I prefer to wonder just why Matt Clifford is onstage except that he blows well. The French horn I mean.

Jeez, that's cruel. I'm hard on Keith's playing only because I love their music so much, and it really upsets me to see him botching songs left and right, but making light over something like that is unnecessarily mean.

I've seen plenty of bands come out onstage with wet spots on their shirts and pants...pre-show sweat, a spilled drink before hitting the stage, so what?

Does anyone think that asking Mick Taylor to return would boost the guitar sound? I'm not just saying this to ruffle anyones feathers but the recent you tubes from hm are quite good and he's playing well. Just a thought not that he even would but...

No

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PhillyFAN
Does anyone think that asking Mick Taylor to return would boost the guitar sound? I'm not just saying this to ruffle anyones feathers but the recent you tubes from hm are quite good and he's playing well. Just a thought not that he even would but...

Well of course it would. It would be a huge boon to their live show, but none of them would want that. Too many egos at play.

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PhillyFAN
Does anyone think that asking Mick Taylor to return would boost the guitar sound? I'm not just saying this to ruffle anyones feathers but the recent you tubes from hm are quite good and he's playing well. Just a thought not that he even would but...

Yes, and I think it would boost the performance level of the others as well just as it did during the 50 and Counting tours.

As for that She's So Cold video from 1982, yes it starts as a trainwreck (they've always made mistakes, right?), but when they do get it together it's like a freight train roaring down the tracks at 200 mph. Comparing it to mistakes made today - while they might be able to get the train back on the tracks, they never quite reach the same zenith. With the way all of the tempos have been slowed down, if they were to play She's So Cold today, it might come across as a slow to mid-tempo blues number rather than the raggedy punk infested sound of '82. Not bashing as they are doing their best as 70+ year olds, but the mistakes they make coupled with the lack of energy in their performance (and slowed down tempos) makes for a drastically different sounding band altogether. I could blame the lackluster vibe on Chuck and his leadership role in the band today - it's as if he's leading and treating the band as an amateur church band (which is a shame as they're obviously professionals), whereas it might be more exciting if they were allowed to unleash the beast as they did in the old days. Might result in a quagmire of different tempos with a cacophony of different instruments, but it might make for a less predictable sound, and the mistakes would be more forgivable because you would know they're flying by the seat of their pants vs. playing along to a predetermined tempo. That's obviously an unrealistic expectation as these are old men in their '70's, and trying to compare them now to then is also unrealistic and futile as there's really no comparison. The bottom line is we might as well try and appreciate it for what it is....they're still rolling after all these years...yes hanging by a thread, but still filling up stadiums and making some people happy.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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keefriff99

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PhillyFAN
Does anyone think that asking Mick Taylor to return would boost the guitar sound? I'm not just saying this to ruffle anyones feathers but the recent you tubes from hm are quite good and he's playing well. Just a thought not that he even would but...

Well of course it would. It would be a huge boon to their live show, but none of them would want that. Too many egos at play.

I think Ronnie does a terrific job ''saving'' this sinking ship by constantly providing reliant and supportive rhythm playing when Keith is noodling around.
Mick Taylor would maybe noodle too much himself and forget about the supportive playing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-18 19:53 by TheBlockbuster.