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Re: Don Was, producer of new album
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 3, 2020 20:54

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
SomeGuy
Kimsey was indeed their best producer after Miller. But, if one likes Dirty Work's songs or not, the sound was more of a Stones sound than any album that came after (Blue And Lonesome excepted, perhaps). If that is Don's fault, I don't know. Kimsey didn't really achieve it with Steel Wheels either. But perhaps it was just the times, like some mid 70s albums started to sound different from what came before, too. Creative juices (or lack thereof) sure make a difference also.

What part of DIRTY WORK sounds "more Stones" than anything post-DW? There are plenty of good "Stones sound" produced songs post DW.

The guitars and bass mainly.

Re: Don Was, producer of new album
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: May 3, 2020 21:01

In my opinion, Don Was key qualification for this particular job was that he lacks real producers authority. They literally asked him if he wanted to be meat in a sandwich

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: May 4, 2020 20:29

I regard Don Was as a sort of UN ambassador: he is the guy who no one can find anything objectionable about as he has no characteristics whatsoever, being completely bland, so he gets the job. And that's how the records sound, compared to the earlier records.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: May 5, 2020 14:27

Quote
MelBelli
Quote
KRiffhard
Quote
doitywoik
Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

Hi Doitywoik! Do you like the drum sound on LIAGT? Imho it doesn't seems Charlie's style and i hear a 'virtual' and cold sound like a drum loop or something like that.
In any case (tell me if i'm wrong) it’s not the same drum sound and style as last year’s sessions:
[mobile.twitter.com]

At 09 sec. Charlie hit the snare drum 3 times...disappeared in the official version!!!

It’s Charlie, but with “imperfections” corrected on a computer grid. It makes him sound like a machine. It’s unfortunate.

I think MelBelli is on the right track: it's Charlie but quantized in ProTools or the like. Since the snippet from Keith is so short it is difficult to make an in-depth comparison. I could also imagine they sampled certain bars of Charlie's original drum track and built a new drum track from that. That would aso explain why so many bars sound the same.

As for Mick's vocals (as well as the overall sound), I can still listen only via the loudspeakers of this rather old laptop here (that is, I need to squeeze my head between the keyboard and the screen because even the max volume is so low) so some things may escape me and others may be artefacts from the speakers rather than the song as such. A (mild) vocoder may well be there, or Mick doubled his vocals a few times (Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull used to do that a lot). His voice sounds slightly processed to me. I'm not so sure about whether they corrected the pitch with Melodyne in some places. I don't know the present version of Melodyne but I am (was) (roughly) familiar with the 2008/2009 version, and if you did pitch corrections with that version you would never know/hear they were done.

Generally I like the song but I second Ian's oppinion that it doesn't sound quite finished, rather like some work still in progress.

Re: Don Was, producer of new album
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: May 5, 2020 18:16

Quote
GAFF
Get Don Was out. Would love to see Jack White produce them, or how about just the Glimmer Twins? Don Was is weak.

thumbs up

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 5, 2020 19:38

Hoping to replace Don Was at this late point of their career seems futile, and hoping for Jack White to replace him is such 2010-ish thing to say.
Might as well hope for Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or (fill in your favorite producer) while we're at it, killing time by filling up pages while waiting for a new Stones album...
Now that Ghost Town has failed in the charts (and not because it's a bad song), it could be a major setback for any release...they'll have to rethink the strategy while attempting to "improve" the material they have.

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 5, 2020 19:57

Even if they had an album ready to go (which I don't think they have)...I don't think the industry is ready to release anything at the moment.
Except the odd single though (obviously).

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 5, 2020 20:09

Well yeah...at least they have some sort of an excuse now...
Instead of Mick and Keith being indecisive and/or butting heads over material endlessly with Universal saying it's all "eneven",
they can claim it's all ready and under control just waiting for the right moment for the coronavirus to blow over...righty-o.

________________
Keep on rolling.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-05 20:11 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: May 5, 2020 20:21

Quote
Stoneage
Even if they had an album ready to go (which I don't think they have)...I don't think the industry is ready to release anything at the moment.
Except the odd single though (obviously).

Plenty of albums have been released in recent weeks:

[www.allmusic.com]

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 5, 2020 20:30

I see, Johnny. But maybe the bigger acts are put on hold during the crisis? Timing is vital. Lots of hands to feed. But I'm not in the industry, I'm just guessing...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: marquess ()
Date: May 5, 2020 20:48

Quote
Hairball
Hoping to replace Don Was at this late point of their career seems futile, and hoping for Jack White to replace him is such 2010-ish thing to say.
Might as well hope for Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or (fill in your favorite producer) while we're at it, killing time by filling up pages while waiting for a new Stones album...
Now that Ghost Town has failed in the charts (and not because it's a bad song), it could be a major setback for any release...they'll have to rethink the strategy while attempting to "improve" the material they have.


Hello,
failed in the charts? I remember seeing that it was nº1 in iTunes. The song has not been phisically available, yet.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 5, 2020 20:55

Quote
marquess
Quote
Hairball
Hoping to replace Don Was at this late point of their career seems futile, and hoping for Jack White to replace him is such 2010-ish thing to say.
Might as well hope for Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or (fill in your favorite producer) while we're at it, killing time by filling up pages while waiting for a new Stones album...
Now that Ghost Town has failed in the charts (and not because it's a bad song), it could be a major setback for any release...they'll have to rethink the strategy while attempting to "improve" the material they have.


Hello,
failed in the charts? I remember seeing that it was nº1 in iTunes. The song has not been phisically available, yet.

See georgelicks' posts in this thread for explanation > Ghost Town where he says:

"...it looks like the Stones team has no clue how to work the industry these days, they had a hit on their hands with right timing and physical availability,
all released at the same time, but they dropped the song on a Thursday (missing 1 day of sales) and the physical copies released a month later".


It's as if the Three Stooges were giving them advice....

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: TumblinDice76 ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:01

You could have said the same thing about the Stones's in 1981. Start Me Up and Hang Fire weren't exactly on par with the video of say Hungry Like the Wolf. Didn't seem to hurt the Stones by them obviously caring very little about making video's. I think the Stones care about what they care about and waste little time with things they don't. At this stage in their career I'm not so sure they care about having top 40 hits.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:12

No matter how bad this song is doing in the charts, I think it's their greatest original tune in many, many years. And in my personal ranking of new releases, it's easily #1 across the board.thumbs up
Should be noted though that I have no idea about any other new releases right now....all I know is Ghost Town is great tune whether it's a chart failure or not, and that's all that really matters.
Eagerly awaiting my two vinyl singles as well as the cd single, but in the meantime the alternate/unofficial video is totally cool and a joy to watch and listen to - hats off to the guy who made it.

________________
Keep on rolling.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-05 21:14 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:17

Quote
marquess
Quote
Hairball
Hoping to replace Don Was at this late point of their career seems futile, and hoping for Jack White to replace him is such 2010-ish thing to say.
Might as well hope for Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or (fill in your favorite producer) while we're at it, killing time by filling up pages while waiting for a new Stones album...
Now that Ghost Town has failed in the charts (and not because it's a bad song), it could be a major setback for any release...they'll have to rethink the strategy while attempting to "improve" the material they have.


Hello,
failed in the charts? I remember seeing that it was nº1 in iTunes. The song has not been phisically available, yet.

But that's the thing...number one on iTunes? I mean, what year is this? 10 years ago that would've have been an accomplishment but today? It's streaming.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:19

Well what 60s act is riding high in the singles charts now anyway? The album will probably hit #1 on the album charts because you don't have to sell a lot of albums nowadays and there's still a lot of album buying Stones fans out there

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:51

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-05 21:54 by georgelicks.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 5, 2020 21:58

edit - wrong thread.

________________
Keep on rolling.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-05 21:59 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 5, 2020 22:17

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
MelBelli
Quote
KRiffhard
Quote
doitywoik
Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

Hi Doitywoik! Do you like the drum sound on LIAGT? Imho it doesn't seems Charlie's style and i hear a 'virtual' and cold sound like a drum loop or something like that.
In any case (tell me if i'm wrong) it’s not the same drum sound and style as last year’s sessions:
[mobile.twitter.com]

At 09 sec. Charlie hit the snare drum 3 times...disappeared in the official version!!!

It’s Charlie, but with “imperfections” corrected on a computer grid. It makes him sound like a machine. It’s unfortunate.

I think MelBelli is on the right track: it's Charlie but quantized in ProTools or the like. Since the snippet from Keith is so short it is difficult to make an in-depth comparison. I could also imagine they sampled certain bars of Charlie's original drum track and built a new drum track from that. That would aso explain why so many bars sound the same.

As for Mick's vocals (as well as the overall sound), I can still listen only via the loudspeakers of this rather old laptop here (that is, I need to squeeze my head between the keyboard and the screen because even the max volume is so low) so some things may escape me and others may be artefacts from the speakers rather than the song as such. A (mild) vocoder may well be there, or Mick doubled his vocals a few times (Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull used to do that a lot). His voice sounds slightly processed to me. I'm not so sure about whether they corrected the pitch with Melodyne in some places. I don't know the present version of Melodyne but I am (was) (roughly) familiar with the 2008/2009 version, and if you did pitch corrections with that version you would never know/hear they were done.

Mick's vocal has an effect for certain. The vocoder is not for pitch correction, it's pitch manipulation.

Charlie's drumming being manipulated - they did that on BRIDGES TO BABYLON and it was boring and basically impossible to tell the difference. Maybe they've found a different thing here, more of a purposed manipulation than just being trendy (BTB was all trendy).

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 5, 2020 22:19

LIAGT lifts the gloom of thinking they've been screwing off. I have thought/felt for years that they're just been doing a whole lot of nothing and that nothing will come of it.

I'm glad to say I was wrong.

Well. You know. So far.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: May 5, 2020 22:32

Quote
GasLightStreet
LIAGT lifts the gloom of thinking they've been screwing off. I have thought/felt for years that they're just been doing a whole lot of nothing and that nothing will come of it.

I'm glad to say I was wrong.

Whether you were wrong or not is still an open question, so to say. winking smiley For the moment there's exactly one new song, and Mick said it took him only a few minutes to write the song. So considering the one and a half decades since ABB there's still plenty of room for a whole lot of nothing ... LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-05 22:33 by doitywoik.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: May 6, 2020 00:30

Quote
GasLightStreet
LIAGT lifts the gloom of thinking they've been screwing off. I have thought/felt for years that they're just been doing a whole lot of nothing and that nothing will come of it.

I'm glad to say I was wrong.

Well. You know. So far.


_______________________________________



Again .. big acts don't book studios to lounge around. They go there to 'work'. The days of bands booking an entire summer ...fall ...or winter etc. to see what happens are long gone.

You are not going to have a record producer there ..on behalf of a label ..
in a world class studio .. with world class engineers and a technician or two
just to goof around and see what happens. They go to studio to work hard on creating songs or to record songs.

This is why .. while this process has taken ungodly too long .. they went to the sessions over the past four / five years to 'work' ... and work they did. They weren't there to just goof off and play with their instruments to see what happens and if nothing happened no big deal .. they were there 'working'... with a strong and definite purpose in mind. Why they haven't hit the nail on the head
and got it just as they want is another story all together.


Ian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-06 00:33 by IanBillen.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: May 6, 2020 00:34

Producers come in different colors. I think Mick and Keith don't need a bossy dude, the Phil Spector type. Others musicians may need that kind of boost but the Glimmer Twins, no way. The type that works for them is the shrink type. The type who listens to his clients and make sure they don't self destruct but come up with something good, fitting the personality of the band. Don was is the type.
Rockandroll,
Mops



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-06 00:35 by rollmops.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 6, 2020 00:40

The Stones have the luxury of taking their time vs. younger/hungrier/more creative bands who want to stay relevant and make an impression NOW.
As for the Stones, you almost have to think why bother when they make way more money playing live, but with the current shutdown, perhaps they'll feel some sort of artistic need to get more new material out there.
The quick release of Ghost Town seems to be a result of all this mess, though there's a possibility they may have released it or something else to coincide with the tour as had been discussed - hard to say though.

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 6, 2020 12:55

Quote
Hairball

Now that Ghost Town has failed in the charts, it could be a major setback for any release...they'll have to rethink the strategy while attempting to "improve" the material they have.

This is a kind of bullshit speculation based on a total misunderstanding/ignorance of the nature of record industry and sales nowadays I tried to open up in the thread of "Living In A Ghost Town". Usually it helps in drawing conclusions if one is somehow awere of how the things go in reality. Of course, if the reality is own fantasy, with no need to fact-checking, that's pretty fun and easy to make hasty conclusions, and goes better with the agenda. It is fashionable these days.

"failed in the charts", "major setback", "rethink the strategy"...

Makes me wonder what actually is the motivation behind to see things as such negatively. Surely Hairball is not there alone, but unlike many others, he digs to support it with postulated 'facts' of his mind. That there is every obstacle imagined in the way for the Stones to get the album out. And we all, something Hairball also is so vocal about, still would love to see it happen some day.

Principle of charity in me says - and I am now talking generally - that there's an inner mechanism to save one's own mind for wishing too much, having too big expectations. A pessimist is never disappointed. "No way the album is ever to be released", "They are dried out", "It is nothing but hitting a wall", "There is no money in record business, so why would they bother?", etc. etc. Years of waiting surely supports this kind of fatalism.

Still, things like a sudden appearance of "Living In A Ghost Town" happen.

Pessimism not equals realism. If one bothers a bit to dig the realm of facts (yeah, that can be hard some times), and keep one's mind cool, there is not much support for such pessisism. Not for unfounded optimism, for that matter.

Just a thought.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-06 13:05 by Doxa.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: May 6, 2020 13:51

Don't take the bait..

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 6, 2020 14:43

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Don't take the bait..

Haha.. sometimes I do that as an excuse to say Rolling Stones-related things that interests me.

- Doxa

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: May 6, 2020 17:24

Quote
Doxa
"failed in the charts", "major setback", "rethink the strategy"...

I wouldn't really see it like that. Setting aside the charts thing, and the which charts thing, their (or Mick's) present activities are rather a pretty clever strategy. First this charming version of YCAGWYW that gave them a good slot in mainstream news media around the world, then shortly after that the release of LIAGT, which again gave them news coverage and positive press reactions around the world (as far as I can tell), now Shepherd Mick & His Bleating Sheep on the Beeb and soon Mick For India - they are constantly present, getting a favourable press, mainstream media consider them relevant (perhaps because mainstream news consumers across several age groups know who they are and can relate to them, as opposed to some 20-year-old hipster in the charts who is known to a bunch of youths but nobody else). If this is meant to prepare the ground for something to come (tour, album, whatever) it's a pretty good strategy, no?

Re: Don Was, producer of new album
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: May 6, 2020 18:13

Quote
SomeGuy
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
SomeGuy
Kimsey was indeed their best producer after Miller. But, if one likes Dirty Work's songs or not, the sound was more of a Stones sound than any album that came after (Blue And Lonesome excepted, perhaps). If that is Don's fault, I don't know. Kimsey didn't really achieve it with Steel Wheels either. But perhaps it was just the times, like some mid 70s albums started to sound different from what came before, too. Creative juices (or lack thereof) sure make a difference also.

What part of DIRTY WORK sounds "more Stones" than anything post-DW? There are plenty of good "Stones sound" produced songs post DW.

The guitars and bass mainly.

I feel like the lack of "stones sound" definitely comes from the bass sound, but not as much because of production (Kimsey vs. Was) but because of product, i.e. the lack of Wyman. Voodoo Lounge, Bridges and ABB seem more like "rock" albums rather than "rock and roll" albums as such. The "roll" was very much lost with Bill, IMHO. Darryl holds it down and keeps things firing, but it's missing "that" sound. I'm going to listen to Voodoo, Bridges and Bang today (all for the first time in a while) and see if I've changed my take. I'm midway through Voodoo...so far same take.

UPDATE: Of all the post-Wyman output, Bridges has the most "roll" IMHO, though 'Laugh, I Nearly Died' definitely has some wonderful mojo. Perhaps it's no coincidence that Bridges only has like 3 songs with Darryl.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-06 19:56 by floodonthepage.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: mailexile67 ()
Date: May 6, 2020 18:52

I think that new album will comes out next year in the fall taking advance of forthcoming anniversary, this year we'll have the Goats head soup Deluxe reissue in the fall

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