While listening (endlessly) to "Living in A Ghost Town" one thing occurred to my mind. Namely one thing that what really distinguished me in the track is how well it is produced. With production I mean the whole structure and all the arrangement decisions the song contains. There is a lot of things going on, but the final outcome is very enjoyable, flowing naturally. It really sounds like for it is given a lot of thought.

Which make me think that probably that is the reason - or one of the reasons - why making the album takes so long - they are really paying a lot of consideration for the final outcome. That's what I understand Keith saying about 'it is mostly listening now' (or something to the effect) some time ago, or what Mick means by 'wanting to make it to sound not just good, but great' the other day. By contrast, A BIGGER BANG was a rather rushed project, as they wanted it to sound 'rough', but seemingly they were not satisfied with the result, or they are thinking differently now. This suggestion fits with what we heard about 'different mixes', etc. Since they are in no hurry anywhere, no deadline, they have the luxury to actually take all the time needed. Record the songs, and then giving it them a rest, and listen them with 'fresh' ears probably months/years later or so. Then think about what do with them next. And not release them until they truely are satisfied with the result.

That said, one of the problems I have with many latter-day Stones albums is that they sound tend to sound like rushed projects. Like they have lacked the ability or will to really develop the song ideas further or use their full potentiality. Many times the decisions are way too obvious - producerwise like taking the easiest route (at least to my ears, the effect of 'Stones-by-numbers' being way too often present). However, the contrary used to be their forte. Back in the day, they worked very hard for their records to be 'distinguished' and 'perfect' (for example, we should not underestimate how much of the greatness of EXILE was actually laid in the final stages in Los Angeles). Of course, as younger they were able to do all that in such a shorter time (and still their recording processes infamously took much more than most of their contemporaries). Naturally they don't either have anymore stamina or will to spend so much time together in the studio as they used to, but seemingly this is replaced by 'listening' more whatever they were able to come up with the studio, and probably given more weight to the over-dubs and other production choices. Probably also that stage of deciding what to record when the band happens to be in the studio together is preparated better by Mick and Keith.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-25 16:23 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
While listening (endlessly) to "Living in A Ghost Town" one thing occurred to my mind. Namely one thing that what really distinguished me in the track is how well it is produced. With production I mean the whole structure and all the arrangement decisions the song contains. There is a lot of things going on, but the final outcome is very enjoyable, flowing naturally. It really sounds like for it is given a lot of thought.

Which make me think that probably that is the reason - or one of the reasons - why making the album takes so long - they are really paying a lot of consideration for the final outcome. That's what I understand Keith saying about 'it is mostly listening now' (or something to the effect) some time ago, or what Mick means by 'wanting to make it to sound not just good, but great' the other day. By contrast, A BIGGER BANG was a rather rushed project, as they wanted it to sound 'rough', but seemingly they were not satisfied with the result, or they are thinking differently now. This suggestion fits with what we heard about 'different mixes', etc. Since they are in no hurry anywhere, no deadline, they have the luxury to actually take all the time needed. Record the songs, and then giving it them a rest, and listen them with 'fresh' ears probably months/years later or so. Then think about what do with them next. And not release them until they truely are satisfied with the result.

That said, one of the problems I have with many latter-day Stones albums is that they sound tend to sound like rushed projects. Like they have lacked the ability or will to really develop the song ideas further or use their full potentiality. Many times the decisions are way too obvious - producerwise like taking the easiest route (at least to my ears, the effect of 'Stones-by-numbers' being way too often present). However, the contrary used to be their forte. Back in the day, they worked very hard for their records to be 'distinguished' and 'perfect' (for example, we should not underestimate how much of the greatness of EXILE was actually laid in the final stages in Los Angeles). Of course, as younger they were able to do all that in such a shorter time (and still their recording processes infamously took much more than most of their contemporaries). Naturally they don't either have anymore stamina or will to spend so much time together in the studio as they used to, but seemingly this is replaced by 'listening' more whatever they were able to come up with the studio, and probably given more weight to the over-dubs and other production choices. Probably also that stage of deciding what to record when the band happens to be in the studio together is preparated better by Mick and Keith.

- Doxa

If you listen, as in focus, to the mixes on SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE you'll notice - not in all of the songs but in some - that things tend to appear and disappear in the mix.

She's So Cold is a perfect example.

Shattered does it as well.

There is the main driving riff, the other one with licks, and then... space.

Summer Romance, Whip, Some Girls, Where The Boys Go and quite a few others are just straight forward everything in the mix songs - no dynamics, really, where as Cold and Shattered have all kinds of things (for lack of a better term, weaving, but not the Keith and Ronnie weaving) coming and going.

Living In A Ghost Town has that element - there's no need to have guitar 4 playing throughout the entire song. The reason the keyboards are prominent is because they're not smothered by guitars in the places they are highly audible. They create an atmosphere that is accentuated by the guitars.

It seems that ever since ER they've pretty much done 'everything up' mixes, A BIGGER BANG being the best example (although Laugh... is the only exception - it's probably the best produced song on the album - Rain Falls Down is another one with lots of atmosphere, the rest are all carpet bombs).

If that's what's going on, with the listening/mixes, I'll take it. There are 2 versions of LIAGT, the edit version and what we might as well call the LP version. Doesn't sound like a different mix, just edited.

One other thing about the song - it doesn't sound forced.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-29 20:29 by GasLightStreet.

I think this new song bodes well for whatever else might follow as far as a whole album goes. BUT...will a whole new Stones album actually ever happen? Now that they've released this tune to mostly positive feedback, they've tasted the success this method has to offer (unlike Micks experience with rejected GettaGrip/England Lost), and it might be a good thing for everyone if they take the singles route from here on out. Maybe every year or two (or every six months or whatever), unleash a new surprise attack single o0n the world. I know this was talked about throughout this thread, but since they're seemingly having difficulty agreeing and compiling an entire album, just release individual tunes when they're finished. If one of them stinks, who cares...they can release another and then another for years on end.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

oops wrong thread.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-26 00:08 by Hairball.

Getting recognition and thumbs up internationally for Ghost town should be a good argument to get on with the other tracks. And when times allow for touring again, also play them live!

I feel slightly bad for Ian Billen who briefly mentioned in the new song thread that he doesn't like the new tune for whatever reason.
As he was one of the the main proponents and campaigners for new Stones material, not the outcome I would have ever expected from him.
If you're out there Ian, would be interesting to hear your reasoning for the dislike as your musical expertise and opinions are respected.
Maybe the new DJ Alok remix will be more to your liking...lol...due out may 2nd.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

Just found Ian's post in the new song thread, and he followed up "Definitely fresh" with "but not sure I'm too crazy about it. Don't kill me everyone Lol"
While it doesn't sound like he's about to jump off a cliff because of disappointment, it seems clear he wasn't really a happy camper with what he heard, but maybe it's grown on him since then?
As for me, I liked it from the start and it kept getting better and better, though now it's sort of plateaued...or in these times you could say the enjoyment has peaked and the curve has flattened...
Gonna give it a few days rest and revisit then so I don't get completely burned out on it - after all it's only one tune and you can only listen to it so many times...
And then there's the news of a remix being unleashed on May 2nd...it's either going to elevate the tune like a breath of fresh air, or sink like a dying fish...can't wait to find out!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

>And then there's the news of a remix being unleashed on May 2nd

And probably at least another pair of expensive 10"s, gotta collect 'em all. In for a penny, in for a pound as they used to say.

jb

Quote
Hairball
I feel slightly bad for Ian Billen who briefly mentioned in the new song thread that he doesn't like the new tune for whatever reason.
As he was one of the the main proponents and campaigners for new Stones material, not the outcome I would have ever expected from him.
If you're out there Ian, would be interesting to hear your reasoning for the dislike as your musical expertise and opinions are respected.
Maybe the new DJ Alok remix will be more to your liking...lol...due out may 2nd.

________________________________________



Ima here, mate (and watching). Well the new song .. I dunno .. I just don't 'really like' or love it. It's mmmmm 'ok' ... to me. Im surprised at the over all very positive response to it here and elsewhere. What it does have going for it is it is fresh .. and fairly different. It's not something that grabs me or strikes emotion like great or even good Stones songs can for me. It is simply kina cool to hear is all. The production is good BUT the vocals seem a bit rushy / rushed .. (otherwise I like the production .. it's Don Was .. what more can ya say?). I would of liked to hear this 6-8 months from now when it was all settled in and perhaps worked on more.

That is where Im at with it. At least it isn't just 'more of the same' .. that's the good thing about the single.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 07:19 by IanBillen.

Good to hear from you Ian, and good to read your honest input regarding the new song.
But since you've been such an eager beaver to get new material (for years now), and your frustration was always evident with the amount of time they were taking, I guess this could be a case of "be careful what you wish for".
Now they've finally released some new music, but evidently you're not too happy about it thinking they should have worked on it for six months longer......interesting turn of events we've had here.
So if they take another two years (or more) to finish the album now, I'm assuming that will that be OK and work for you, because if they rush anything out sooner than that, it might not be fully "settled".

Cheers Ian - hope you're doing well during these strange days and also getting some work accomplished.
And until this crisis is all over, or the next Stones tune is released (or whatever comes first), stay safe.

PS - Stay tuned for the Ghost Town remix on May 2nd...it might be just what you were hoping for after all these years!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 07:53 by Hairball.

Quote
Hairball
Good to hear from you Ian, and good to read your honest input regarding the new song.
But since you've been such an eager beaver to get new material (for years now), and your frustration was always evident with the amount of time they were taking, I guess this could be a case of "be careful what you wish for".
Now they've finally released some new music, but evidently you're not too happy about it thinking they should have worked on it for six months longer......interesting turn of events we've had here.
So if they take another two years (or more) to finish the album now, I'm assuming that will that be OK and work for you, because if they rush anything out sooner than that, it might not be fully "settled".

Cheers Ian - hope you're doing well during these strange days and also getting some work accomplished.
And until this crisis is all over, or the next Stones tune is released (or whatever comes first), stay safe.

PS - Stay tuned for the Ghost Town remix on May 2nd...it might be just what you were hoping for after all these years!

______________________________________________________


Mr. Hairball .. I was going to comment about myself 'look at me .. Ian .. saying they should of worked on it and taken longer ... <<< whaaaaaaaat?' ha.

Be careful what you wish for it right. The song shows some promise .. I just don't think it was fully ready .. Nor does it strike much emotion in me.

However it is different ... and for that I commend them. It isn't a loser ..
I'm just not crazy over it.

Ill def be watching for the alternative mix. I check the board daily here .. Hell a few times a day. I will be here, Sa -

Quote
doitywoik
Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

Hi Doitywoik! Do you like the drum sound on LIAGT? Imho it doesn't seems Charlie's style and i hear a 'virtual' and cold sound like a drum loop or something like that.
In any case (tell me if i'm wrong) it’s not the same drum sound and style as last year’s sessions:
[mobile.twitter.com]

At 09 sec. Charlie hit the snare drum 3 times...disappeared in the official version!!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 12:05 by KRiffhard.

Quote
IanBillen

Quote
Hairball
Good to hear from you Ian, and good to read your honest input regarding the new song.
But since you've been such an eager beaver to get new material (for years now), and your frustration was always evident with the amount of time they were taking, I guess this could be a case of "be careful what you wish for".
Now they've finally released some new music, but evidently you're not too happy about it thinking they should have worked on it for six months longer......interesting turn of events we've had here.
So if they take another two years (or more) to finish the album now, I'm assuming that will that be OK and work for you, because if they rush anything out sooner than that, it might not be fully "settled".

Cheers Ian - hope you're doing well during these strange days and also getting some work accomplished.
And until this crisis is all over, or the next Stones tune is released (or whatever comes first), stay safe.

PS - Stay tuned for the Ghost Town remix on May 2nd...it might be just what you were hoping for after all these years!

______________________________________________________


Mr. Hairball .. I was going to comment about myself 'look at me .. Ian .. saying they should of worked on it and taken longer ... <<< whaaaaaaaat?' ha.

Be careful what you wish for it right. The song shows some promise .. I just don't think it was fully ready .. Nor does it strike much emotion in me.

However it is different ... and for that I commend them. It isn't a loser ..
I'm just not crazy over it.

Ill def be watching for the alternative mix. I check the board daily here .. Hell a few times a day. I will be here, Sa -

Probably a Keith lead vocal, no autotune, warts 'n all, could save the tune for some here...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 10:46 by retired_dog.

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floodonthepage

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georgelicks

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floodonthepage
In an effort to create more buzz and excitement, I could see them just dropping it on us one day, the way some bands/artists have done.

No way, they will hype the album during months in advance.

Typically and historically, yes. But I could see them throwing a curveball in an effort to be "fresh" (Mick always wanting to be on the cutting edge, Keith less so). A full career of teasing as worked fairly well for them though, so there's always the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, which ultimately seems to be more Keith's frame of mind than Mick's, at least musically.

Back in November I was shot down with this idea of the band releasing surprise music. Again, Mick likes to stay on top of the times, so this surprise release of a song did not and does not surprise me. I would further not be surprised if and when the new album arrives that it may arrive similarly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-28 19:51 by floodonthepage.

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KRiffhard

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doitywoik
Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

Hi Doitywoik! Do you like the drum sound on LIAGT? Imho it doesn't seems Charlie's style and i hear a 'virtual' and cold sound like a drum loop or something like that.
In any case (tell me if i'm wrong) it’s not the same drum sound and style as last year’s sessions:
[mobile.twitter.com]

At 09 sec. Charlie hit the snare drum 3 times...disappeared in the official version!!!

It’s Charlie, but with “imperfections” corrected on a computer grid. It makes him sound like a machine. It’s unfortunate.

Quote
doitywoik
Ian said, "Definitely fresh" - there could be worse assessments.Details remain only wth him, as of yet, but will hopefully be shared.

There has been some criticism as to the sound (not by Ian but others), I reserve judgement on that as long as I can listen to the song only on the shitty laptop speakers and not on my stereo or proper headphones. To me the song sounds still a bit like work in progress (which it possibly is/was), to me this contributes to its charm. I couldn't really hear the autotune that others discussed but that might have to do with the laptop speakers. They give me an idea what the song may sound like but not much more. Whether it's an instant classic or not is not a relevant question to me. At any rate, no song to be ashamed of. I'd appreciate to have the song also on the new album, with the original lyrics (I guess the song came originally in the my-baby-left-me domain) and whatever further touches they would still add to it .

The VOCODER, not auto-tune, sections are highlighted on a few pages, by me, maybe some others. It's when Mick says something like When you come creep in my bed. I've listened to it on my no bass at all laptop speakers ie shitty laptop speakers LOL and the vocoder sections are quite audible.

I've also listened to it with my Galaxy Audio HP STM4 Monitor Headphones and it sounds fantastic (a bit OT but U2's SONGS OF EXPERIENCE sounds excellent on headphones - I mention that because there are similar elements between that LP and this Stones song - more details than anything - and that a lot of albums do not sound better on headphones I've noticed, or are not nearly as interesting as I thought they would be).

According to Wikipedia, the Stones are now making an album's worth of new material they have been recording. This are the exact words from this respected source of information. Wikipedia also wrote that Jagger and Was were the producers of Living in a Ghost Town.

It would appear that Was will be the producer of the new album. He is a very good rock producer, as all would agree. I have heard from some iorr members, however, that Was uses too much technology to produce a somewhat artificial sound, too polished in other words.

Any thoughts ?

Don Was just can't seem to get the proper Stones sound out of the boys. In that respect Steve Lillywhite was a better choice

Was's's's's production of Iggy Pop's Brick By Brick, however, was rather great. I can't recall any other good production job that he did, though.

Chris Kimsey got the best out of the Stones regarding the post Jimmy Miller years.

Lillywhite was out of his league with DIRTY WORK. The Stones didn't help - no one had a @#$%& clue as to what the hell they were doing.

I’m just grateful that there’s some renewed hope on getting a new album completed, and in trusting that Don Was will put his best foot forward in producing it. I’m not that familiar with his past work but I’m wishing him and the new album the best of luck!

Kimsey was indeed their best producer after Miller. But, if one likes Dirty Work's songs or not, the sound was more of a Stones sound than any album that came after (Blue And Lonesome excepted, perhaps). If that is Don's fault, I don't know. Kimsey didn't really achieve it with Steel Wheels either. But perhaps it was just the times, like some mid 70s albums started to sound different from what came before, too. Creative juices (or lack thereof) sure make a difference also.

Rule of thumb for fans when reviewing Stones albums

If it's good - Mick and Keith are geniuses
If it's shit - it's the producer's fault.

Clifford and Jordan are the Stones’ producers these days, whatever the back of the cd says.

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flilflam
According to Wikipedia, the Stones are now making an album's worth of new material they have been recording. This are the exact words from this respected source of information. Wikipedia also wrote that Jagger and Was were the producers of Living in a Ghost Town.

It would appear that Was will be the producer of the new album. He is a very good rock producer, as all would agree. I have heard from some iorr members, however, that Was uses too much technology to produce a somewhat artificial sound, too polished in other words.

Any thoughts ?

Who typed this on Wikipedia? Could be any of us on IORR, for instance

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
flilflam
According to Wikipedia, the Stones are now making an album's worth of new material they have been recording. This are the exact words from this respected source of information. Wikipedia also wrote that Jagger and Was were the producers of Living in a Ghost Town.

It would appear that Was will be the producer of the new album. He is a very good rock producer, as all would agree. I have heard from some iorr members, however, that Was uses too much technology to produce a somewhat artificial sound, too polished in other words.

Any thoughts ?

Who typed this on Wikipedia? Could be any of us on IORR, for instance

Wikipedia is totally free and unchecked, so it must be true!

I guess flilflam (?) meant it in a somewhat sarcastic way.

Quote
flilflam
According to Wikipedia, the Stones are now making an album's worth of new material they have been recording. This are the exact words from this respected source of information. Wikipedia also wrote that Jagger and Was were the producers of Living in a Ghost Town.

It would appear that Was will be the producer of the new album. He is a very good rock producer, as all would agree. I have heard from some iorr members, however, that Was uses too much technology to produce a somewhat artificial sound, too polished in other words.

Any thoughts ?

Try listening to other albums produced by Don Was: Zucchero's "Chocabeck", Ziggy Marley's "Wild and Free", Bob Dylan's 'Under the Red Sky'. The problem is always the same. A sound too perfect, muffled and polished.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-03 19:35 by KRiffhard.

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SomeGuy
Kimsey was indeed their best producer after Miller. But, if one likes Dirty Work's songs or not, the sound was more of a Stones sound than any album that came after (Blue And Lonesome excepted, perhaps). If that is Don's fault, I don't know. Kimsey didn't really achieve it with Steel Wheels either. But perhaps it was just the times, like some mid 70s albums started to sound different from what came before, too. Creative juices (or lack thereof) sure make a difference also.

What part of DIRTY WORK sounds "more Stones" than anything post-DW? There are plenty of good "Stones sound" produced songs post DW.

Wikipedia aside, Was himself has talked about working on the "new" album.

Keith name checked him in the recent Apple Music interview - "I had said to Don [Was] about a month or so ago, ‘Hey, this is a time for the ghost town track."

Get Don Was out. Would love to see Jack White produce them, or how about just the Glimmer Twins? Don Was is weak.