Quote
Stoneage
I have a feeling Commander is not willing to release a new album before the tour since that would mean they would have to rehearse new songs prior to the tour start.
(And do a lot of PR - which I think he is tired of). I don't think Sir Michael trusts his own group in that respect. Doing the same routine is easier and safer. Pure speculation, I know...

I think you are ‘spot on’ here, Stoneage (maybe apart from Commander ‘not trusting his own group’ etc. - but hey: for whatever reason/-s it may be: the ourcome is Still the same, and like you say, imo...)

And combined wit what bv said (which is, pretty much, the same: bad timing for new material - which they don’t want to be ‘just average’ - because touring is the priority right now, and has been for the 3d year running...)

So there we go.

The album will be there, in our hands, eventualy.

But when? Nobody knows.
When they consider it good enough, I guess.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
«Yeah, we’ve been hacking songs into shape. I’m gonna go off to Paris and see Mick next week and see what his latest thoughts are after he’s got together with Keith. It’s an ongoing thing of comparing what is on the cooker at the moment and some ideas we’ve had for years that we may embellish upon. It’s quite interesting building this new album. You can’t say there’s a title for it. The tracks haven’t actually been chosen yet».

Is «interesting» the new word for «frustrating», or are they just playing with us (and their distributors, Universal)?

Like Rocky and Doxa wrote, something does not quite add up here considering the numerous info on the new album that popped up over the last few years. No, I don't think they're playing with us and Universal or playing the album down just because they're promoting the US tour by now like you suggested. It just does not make sense.

Thinking about it, I can see only two reasons:

a) they're playing the new album down now and speak of "early stages" after all these years of working on it because creatively, it simply does not work out and they're somehow stuck somewhere inbetween

or

b) they're constantly recording material over the years because by now, the end of their touring years is (very) near and by now, they know it. Keith's interview quote "next tour could be the last one, I don't know" or the like does indeed sound very different from the joyous mood of the "we tour until we die"-attitude he came up with until now.

Once the touring days will be finally over, having one or two album's worth of material in the can does probably make more commercial sense than putting out the stuff now while they still generate a considerable income from playing live.

In this scenario, even a 3 or 4 track EP makes sense. It does not waste all too much of the new material by now while at the same time it is at least something new that could be chewed on by their fans and on the next tour where they'll most likely won't play more than 1 or 2 new songs anyway even if there is a whole new album. Plus, if they're still planning to do a bundle with ticket sales, giving away an EP is considerably cheaper than a complete album - and works just as well to tease hesitant fans, even more so when it will be only slightly different than the version for general sales!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-02 20:14 by retired_dog.

Quote
bv
From history, which many people seems to forget about:

.....
Steel Wheels (1989)
Voodoo Lounge (1994)
Bridges to Babylon (1997)
A Bigger Bang (2005)
The next one (2019 or so)

Years between new self penned albums:

5 years
3 years
8 years
14 years or so

These are the years it has taken for The Rollinmg Stones i.e. Mick and Keith to agree on the contents and the mixes on their recent self penned studio albums.

They may do as many Stripped or No Security or Blue and Lonesome and so on, these are all easy, they might do one per year, but it makes no sense. We want another Exile or Sticky, nothing less, and they know it. By the way, I am a great fan of both "Bridges To Babylon" and "A Bigger Bang", so for me, those rank high up there as well, and I sure remember having more than half of A Bigger Bang live on that tour, which was great.

Their next self penned studio album will be the first one in 14 years or so. No wonder they want it to be right. Very very right. They don't want to pick 12 out of 20, I am pretty sure they want the next album to be superior. That takes time. They need more to choose from, they are not there yet. Meanwhile, they are grandfathers and family men and are busy with a zillion other activities, which you should be, at age mid seventy.

We may get a few new songs for the 2019 No Filter US tour, may be even an EP, if they agree on those songs. But it is more and more clear, from sources I have, from interviews with Mick, Keith and Ronnie, and from the development of this new album, that they want to take their time.

First another tour, then we will see. I think it is a great priority plan. They have to tour now, while they can. The album will be there. I am ready for it when it is there, and like always, I am patient, very patient. When this thread is at 400 or may be 500 pages, then we can talk. Meanwhile, another tour, and may be another one, patience is the word. Still.

This post alone should be a sticky within this thread!

When this thread hits 400 or maybe 500 pages, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, and Paul McCartney will have each released three more studio albums and have toured the world several times!
But I'll still be here, following the ups and downs of the Rolling Stones, and wondering how it can be so difficult for them to complete a single album of originals after 14 years and counting....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
retired_dog

they're constantly record material over the years because by now, the end of their touring years is (very) near and by now, they know it. Keith's interview quote "next tour could be the last one, I don't know" or the like does indeed sound very different from the joyous mood of the "we tour until we die"-attitude he came up with until now.

Once the touring days will be finally over, having one or two album's worth of material in the can does probably make more commercial sense than putting out the stuff now while they still generate a considerable income from playing live.

Dave Stewart remarked a year or two after SUPERHEAVY underperformed to his expectations that Mick had enough material in the can for a box set (likely an exaggeration) of unreleased solo material. Dave played the interviewer a track called "Time Flies" which had a gospel choir singing harmony. The interviewer thought it sounded like vintage Stones. Dave considered it one of the best things Mick had ever done. Dave suggested Mick make all this material (co-written and/or co-produced with Dave) available on a cloud and promote it as "Get Off on My Cloud."

And that's just Jagger-Stewart. There are at least 40 Jagger-Clifford songs waiting in the wings as well. Admittedly, some may be reworked from Jagger-Stewart (Mick does do that sort of thing). Will we ever hear any of it? Likely once the Stones are done. Matt is now producing, but there's Carl Falk, there's Dave Stewart, there's Fatbloy Slim, there's Darkchild, there's Ashley Beadle and will i. am, there's Jimmy Iovine, there's Babyface. All of these people have worked up tracks with Jagger in the past 22 years. There were Jagger songs played at some of L'wren's fashion shows that have never turned up like "Run Me Down" and "Angel." These songs will all surface one day.

Perhaps the Stones album will be banked until the sales are maximized by a final end to the band as well. Don Was worked on outtakes from 1989 - 2011 and that's not counting whatever new material has come about. Are they sitting on a great album for the ages? Probably not. Will there be some sort of package, a box set, a two-disc set, a single disc yet to come? Probably yes to all of those options. Remember Don Was saying "Scarlet" would have been a hit then and now in 2010? Where did it go. Don worked on GOATS HEAD SOUP and TATTOO YOU deluxe editions that never surfaced. Everything goes somewhere even if it's under lock and key for now.

So no Stones album to hope for until it's done and dusted? Maybe. The end is near and then the floodgates open anyway. It doesn't make me happy to think about it being over, but there's always a plan for what's next after the touring days are finished.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 02:33 by Rocky Dijon.

Quote
Hairball

Quote
KRiffhard
It's so confusing, I don't know who to believe!!
From "almost finished/finished album" to "loose jams/raw demos"...
Bungo and others...i think you have to recall your sources!

Wasn't Bungo the one who previously said the songs are "cocaine fueled"? lol...

"Drug" fueled. (and I still stand by that)

Quote
georgelicks

After 13-14 years the Stones can't release an ordinary new album with average stuff, their back catalog is a huge burden, a project like Blue and Lonesome fits well on their history, but a new album of new songs is a different story.

Yes they can. No one in their right mind expects something of the standard of Sticky Fingers from a group of guys in their mid 70s, and besides, in 2018 the Stones (and rock n roll in general) are culturally irrelevant.

If they released the best album theyve ever done, no one outside of their hardcore fanbase will care about it two weeks later.

Leaving it so long only gets the expectation levels of some fans to unrealistic degrees



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-30 21:45 by Gazza.

@Georgelicks,
thanks for the update! Sounds pretty much like what I and likely many others here suspected.

@Doxa,
you nailed it!!!!

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I guess the only thing nagging at me is...what happened to Matt and his highly-polished demos made for quick and easy overdubbing? 20 ramshackle jams? That doesn't sound like Mick material.

I guess if it were just about fleshing out a bunch of Mick's demos, the album could be done in less than two weeks. But seemingly Keith doesn't want that, and likewise seemingly he doesn't have much material of his own to counterbalance Mick's. He (says he) wants to create new stuff together with Mick, but, again seemingly, nothing much has emerged in terms of real results. That Mick or Keith say they are having fun at the sessions and they came up with new ideas, or with some beautiful things, etc., doesn't really mean much in terms of material ready for recording with the others. Maybe they came up with a nice four bar chord progression, or a melody hook, or other bits and pieces that might find their place in a song some day, but it doesn't mean that every afternoon in a studio every 6 months produces a string of new masterpieces. That a session is fun, or a pleasure to do, or even creative, doesn't mean it also was productive the way we wish.

Quote
nonfilter
It might be wishful thinking on my part, but as I recall, a year before Blue and Lonesome was recorded, not released, it was stated that they had an album complete and were so excited they immediately started on a new one.

Quote
IanBillen
It was reported many songs were complete .. full songs. It was also reported many of them have different versions.

Hmm, honestly I can't recall any such thing, but something may have escaped me, and slowly I'm starting to mix up things altogether anyway ...

Quote
bv
I am pretty sure they want the next album to be superior. That takes time.

Certainly. But I feel tempted to add that it also requires that something be done in the time it takes.

Quote
bv
When this thread is at 400 or may be 500 pages, then we can talk.

We're working on it ...

Quote
Stoneage
... since that would mean they would have to rehearse new songs prior to the tour start.

Sounds not unreasonable. Also sounds like the general attitude toward touring/rehearsing in the last 25 years.

Quote
Gazza
If they released the best album theyve ever done, no one outside of their hardcore fanbase will care about it two weeks later.

I'm afraid that this is a very realistc assessment. And I think it holds not only for the Stones but also for anyone else in the field.

Quote bv
I am pretty sure they want the next album to be superior. That takes time.

Certainly. But I feel tempted to add that it also requires that something be done in the time it takes.

Superior to what???? Beggars Banquet, EOMS, LIB, SF?
These are albums from 45 years ago or older..... another time than now.
Should you be afraid of cooking because you did something extremely good 50 years ago???? Should you be afraid of inviting friends to a party because a previous party was extraordinary good????

@mtaylor,
bv wants to say - as I understand it - that they don't want to put out just yet another album but an album of which they think it's a truly great one. What that might mean is another question, and I'm sure there's also more than one oppinion in the band as to what a truly great one would be like. I'm also sure that they are aware they can't top SF or EOMS, simply because these are different times - in any respect, as often discussed.

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
DandelionPowderman
«Yeah, we’ve been hacking songs into shape. I’m gonna go off to Paris and see Mick next week and see what his latest thoughts are after he’s got together with Keith. It’s an ongoing thing of comparing what is on the cooker at the moment and some ideas we’ve had for years that we may embellish upon. It’s quite interesting building this new album. You can’t say there’s a title for it. The tracks haven’t actually been chosen yet».

Is «interesting» the new word for «frustrating», or are they just playing with us (and their distributors, Universal)?

Like Rocky and Doxa wrote, something does not quite add up here considering the numerous info on the new album that popped up over the last few years. No, I don't think they're playing with us and Universal or playing the album down just because they're promoting the US tour by now like you suggested. It just does not make sense.

Thinking about it, I can see only two reasons:

a) they're playing the new album down now and speak of "early stages" after all these years of working on it because creatively, it simply does not work out and they're somehow stuck somewhere inbetween

or

b) they're constantly record material over the years because by now, the end of their touring years is (very) near and by now, they know it. Keith's interview quote "next tour could be the last one, I don't know" or the like does indeed sound very different from the joyous mood of the "we tour until we die"-attitude he came up with until now.

Once the touring days will be finally over, having one or two album's worth of material in the can does probably make more commercial sense than putting out the stuff now while they still generate a considerable income from playing live.

In this scenario, even a 3 or 4 track EP makes sense. It does not waste all too much of the new material by now while at the same time it is at least something new that could be chewed on by their fans and on the next tour where they'll most likely won't play more than 1 or 2 new songs anyway even if there is a whole new album. Plus, if they're still planning to do a bundle with ticket sales, giving away an EP is considerably cheaper than a complete album - and works just as well to tease hesitant fans, even more so when it will be only slightly different than the version for general sales!

B sounds likely, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 00:02 by DandelionPowderman.

How about Blue and Lonesome pt II, but instead of covers come up with some original blues tunes!
How hard can that be?

Or if everything else fails, maybe an album made for karaoke...

Karaoke Sweet Home Chicago

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

They could do something similar to the Live at Checkerboard Lounge set which bizarrely was stuck in the vaults for years.
Maybe a different location next time but still an album of blues (obviously not duplicating the B and L track list).
With some guests eg Buddy Guy, Robert Cray, Dr John.
A CD ...a few club gigs...then edit and get the best performances and a DVD: for a documentary with interviews..public and musicians.

Wouldn't require much more than a couple of weeks away from home.

Quote
jlowe
They could do something similar to the Live at Checkerboard Lounge set which bizarrely was stuck in the vaults for years.
Maybe a different location next time but still an album of blues (obviously not duplicating the B and L track list).
With some guests eg Buddy Guy, Robert Cray, Dr John.
A CD ...a few club gigs...then edit and get the best performances and a DVD: for a documentary with interviews..public and musicians.

Wouldn't require much more than a couple of weeks away from home.

Nice , where can I pre-order this!
I'll even go for the deluxe version!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

That "Time's Up" song sounds more remarkable than anything a Stone has come up with since..hum some songs on "Wandering Spirit" maybe, at least the title track. B2B had a couple of lasting tracks too, ABB ? None if anyone's honest about it.

How on earth can anyone expect the Stones to come up with something "superior" at this point in the game when they haven't done that since, like forever. They could easily have pumped out an ABB every 2 or 3 years. They chose not to do it so now they're stuck as the odds that they can do "better" are close to zero. Anyway the money, mostly important to their "entourage" (families, band members, technicians, etc...) than to them who likely only need the "thrill" (as Mick explained recently) is only in touring these days and they don't need a new album to tour, some vague semblance of activity for one is all that's needed, so there's really zero incentive to stick out their head with material that cannot be "superior".

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Just imagine if Mick and Keith just wrote one good to great song a year for the last 14 years... or if Mick wrote one every other year and Keith separately did the same ... either way that would give us a 14 song 'album' from the last 14 years ... Doesn't sound like too much to ask of such great songwriters ... I know it's not that simple, but maybe it should be ...

Personnally, I don't believe in those guys breaking their backs creating new stuff...
Why would they do that? As long as we buy tickets to see and hear them playing the same old 19 songs, I don't see the point in getting a new album on the market. Especially knowing that when they sell a $55.00 t-shirt and make 25 times more profit with it than by selling an album.....
C'mon... Let's be serious. I would do the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 01:49 by daniel t.

Quote
daniel t
Personnally, I don't believe in those guys breaking their backs creating new stuff...
Why would they do that? As long as we buy tickets to see and hear them playing the same od 19 songs, I don't see the point in getting a new album on the market. Especially knowing that when they sell a $55.00 t-shirt and make 25 times more profit with it than by selling an album.....
C'mon... Let's be serous. I would do the same.

Totally agree here. Fill the house and play the warhorses

Quote
Hairball
Blue and Lonesome II might be the answer after all!

No real time or effort needed - just get in a room, pick some favorite oldies, play them, and hit record!
Voila - problem solved and will buy them some more time until they can get it together for some new originals - three more years if that's what it takes.

Keith hinted at his desire to do so awhile ago, and it would help solve many problems.

I get the impression Keith is pissed off and has lost interest. Over to Mick, my guess is its going to be another Mick Jagger solo Stones album.

Blue And lonesome II might well be a consideration, a trade off, although for me personally it's not the answer.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do an album of covers out of the demand from the fans to receive something from them.

Does anyone else think it's sad that Mick and Keith can't see eye to eye for long enough to accomplish anything together these days creatively.
I think it's taking so long because they are both stubborn and are digging there heals in. They both want there own way = no way.
I really don't think they can stand to be in the same room with each other for long, maybe to practice but certainly not to write and create music together.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 01:48 by keithsman.

Quote
daniel t
Personnally, I don't believe in those guys breaking their backs creating new stuff...
Why would they do that? As long as we buy tickets to see and hear them playing the same od 19 songs, I don't see the point in getting a new album on the market. Especially knowing that when they sell a $55.00 t-shirt and make 25 times more profit with it than by selling an album.....
C'mon... Let's be serous. I would do the same.

Except...
David Crosby
Neil Young etc

who are all prolific and putting out albums (which in the main) the fans are happy with.
And still touring.

BB King: was making albums till (near) the end...Muddy Waters..probably the same.

So you can't generalise.

Quote
keithsman
Does anyone else think it's sad that Mick and Keith can't see eye to eye for long enough to accomplish anything together these days creatively.
I think it's taking so long because they are both stubborn and are digging there heals in. They both want there own way = no way.
I really don't think they can stand to be in the same room with each other for long, maybe to practice but certainly not to write and create music together.

Yes to the above, though it doubtless sounds harsh. Mick will come play Keith what he's worked up on his own or with Matt and Keith will let him hear what he's worked up with Steve Jordan. How sad they can't be bothered to simply be Jagger-Richards in the honest sense of the credit.

They both fingerpoint and the trouble is they'll keep one-upping each other to where it begins all the way back 50 years to the set of PERFORMANCE. Don Was has told that story from the VOODOO LOUNGE sessions when he thought he witnessed the end of the band. LIFE re-told it. Ronnie's perspective was Keith needs to let go and recognize it was a different time which he likened to the incestuousness of Greek gods and goddesses.

From that perspective, one wonders if Mick's recent comments about PERFORMANCE fanned further flames. They're still two kids in the sandbox still fighting over a lifetime of collected grievances.

Gottablouse, what is the "Time's Up" song you mention?

Quote
Rocky Dijon

Quote
keithsman
Does anyone else think it's sad that Mick and Keith can't see eye to eye for long enough to accomplish anything together these days creatively.
I think it's taking so long because they are both stubborn and are digging there heals in. They both want there own way = no way.
I really don't think they can stand to be in the same room with each other for long, maybe to practice but certainly not to write and create music together.

Yes to the above, though it doubtless sounds harsh. Mick will come play Keith what he's worked up on his own or with Matt and Keith will let him hear what he's worked up with Steve Jordan. How sad they can't be bothered to simply be Jagger-Richards in the honest sense of the credit.

They both fingerpoint and the trouble is they'll keep one-upping each other to where it begins all the way back 50 years to the set of PERFORMANCE. Don Was has told that story from the VOODOO LOUNGE sessions when he thought he witnessed the end of the band. LIFE re-told it. Ronnie's perspective was Keith needs to let go and recognize it was a different time which he likened to the incestuousness of Greek gods and goddesses.

From that perspective, one wonders if Mick's recent comments about PERFORMANCE fanned further flames. They're still two kids in the sandbox still fighting over a lifetime of collected grievances.

I'm very sorry to say i think you just nailed it Rocky.

Quote
gotdablouse
That "Time's Up" song sounds more remarkable than anything a Stone has come up with since..hum some songs on "Wandering Spirit" maybe, at least the title track. B2B had a couple of lasting tracks too, ABB ? None if anyone's honest about it.

My mistake. The title of the track was "Time Flies." My brain skipped to the second Living Colour album that Mick played on and confused the titles.

I brought this up before in this thread, but there was a quote from Mick on Timisonourside.com (forget the exact date of quote, but probably a couple of decades ago) - to paraphrase:

"Keith can be difficult in the studio just for the sake of being difficult. He might actually like something, but his stubbornness gets in the way".

So seems Keith can be a stubborn old jerk, and thats probably why Mick went ahead with Getta Grip/England Lost with Charlie and Ronnie in tow.
Where does this leave Keith? A grumpy and lonely old mean-spirited little man whose unwilling to collaborate even if it's for the good of the band.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The Hell with Keith, I hope he’s reading this......

A partnership is two people (in this instance). They're both at fault if Jagger-Richards has ceased to exist as a genuine collaboration. Treating the rest of the band as hired hands is also part of the problem.

Probably nothing else I can add to the conversation and since I'm trying my best to avoid what a friend here termed my "prickishness," I should probably bow out of the thread. Cheers to all of you. Enjoy what we have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 03:10 by Rocky Dijon.

Quote
Maindefender
The Hell with Keith, I hope he’s reading this......

I feel like burning my Crosseyed Heart vinyl, cd, and cassette, as well as Talk is Cheap and Main Offender, and every Keith t-shirt I own!!!



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Or if everything else fails, maybe an album made for karaoke...

... and then send Mick a copy ...

Quote
Hairball

Quote
Maindefender
The Hell with Keith, I hope he’s reading this......

I feel like burning my Crosseyed Heart vinyl, cd, and cassette, as well as Talk is Cheap and Main Offender, and every Keith t-shirt I own!!!

_________________________________


This talk of Mick and Keithnot seeing eye to eye on the current sessions is mostly
manufactured here. Keith just spoke of the session and he said they were great. Mick said they would good as well. Sure... what are they suppossed to say ... 'they were a flop bc I dont see eye to eye with the other guy' ..but still they sounded positive and so did Ronnie about the mood / energy etc.

My personal opinion is it is not yet strong as they would like it ..


They have not focused on it .. and so things sat.


Let's put it this way .. this is the <ONLY> time in the Stones looooooong career where people interviewing them are asking why the hold up and referring to them not putting out much new music. Even Mick admitted that to be the case. It isn't just us on the board .. Even people interviewing them are wondering why its been so long and what the deal is here? That should tell us something ..

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
Hairball
Or if everything else fails, maybe an album made for karaoke...

... and then send Mick a copy ...

And then he could overdub some new vocals for a deluxe edition!

But if he doesn't like that idea, there's plenty of impersonators from countless cover bands who would die for the chance of laying down the vocals!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 05:19 by Hairball.