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Hi Rocky! "Time Flies", "High or Low", "Smooth 180", "Scarlet", "Dont Apologize", "I'm cured", "Young Love", "Ever Changing World"...all the outtakes/unfinished songs, hidden gems from previous sessions...
They have enough material to make other 10 "Tattoo You"!!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 10:05 by KRiffhard.
Well wait a minute here, that might be a little unfair on Keith, did Keith not have every right to reject England Lost, BV said that Mick and Keith want this album to be very good, better than the previous 4 or 5 Albums, England Lost really doesn't make the grade does it.
Also i get the impression Mick can also be stubborn, and lets face it most Stones albums of originals over the last few decades have been very much Mick orientated.
I just think Keith is demanding more of a co effort this time, i believe Keith wants to write with Mick rather than each coming to the table with their own music.
Yes dave9199 they are amazing and sometimes we all get too critical of them, i'm 53 years old born in 65 and they have been active as a band since before i was born ( not Ronnie ) but on the other hand they have been saying that an album is coming for three years and they do charge top Dollar for a show that's almost the same since 89' only now they are past their best by a long shot at performing that show. I paid £25 to see them up front standing in 1990 and last year to see them up close costs between £250 to £700. It's become a predictable circus, these days we don't get to see the wild animals or the trapeze artist without a net, we get the high wire ten feet from the ground and the clowns.
I meant it as a compliment. "a stylistic ease & flow" that the rest of us do not have. LOL
Well, quite true really.
They are only following the likes of Chuck Berry and the 1950's rockers. Chuck by and large gave up on recording any original stuff for the last half of his career (at least The Stones have been more productive than that).
Chuck still toured of course...more concerts than The Stones...but clearly concert receipts were more important to him than any effort at being creative in the studio.
Sounds familiar eh?
Thank God we have the likes of Van Morrison, Macca, Springsteen, all of whom are able to come up with new work.
Judging by the people Mick & Keith like to hang with its looking like we could be getting more music from the Glimmers had they called time on the Stones.
Keith has probably been waiting for the Stones to stop touring so he can make another album with Steve, Waddy and co and maybe tour with them again.
Mick would surely be more productive away from Keith turning those demos into albums. Who knows Mick might surprise us with an excellent solo album or two.
Seriously i want the Stones to wrap it up now so they can do other things instead of selling out all the time.
I was talking about the Stones... I don't see where I generalized...
What do people expect them to achieve in a week, they've done sod all in three years, Christmas is coming, don't hold your breath for anything substantial.
I'm not entirely sure Mick hasn't got writers block, it's not looking good is it, why will he not stand toe to toe with Keith and create new spontaneous music ? because he cant't.
I said three years ago Mick will be intimidated by Crosseyed Heart and i was right.
I now agree. The well may have run dry as any new stuff may not be worthy of their current song catalog (which is masterful).
Maybe they went into the studio to record, the new stuff was not good, so they recorded B&L instead?
Time is short and the water is rising and most of 2019 will be touring.
I doubt we ever see a new album of original material.
Good that also someone else picked up that Keith remark about the probability of the next tour being the last one. I was almost shocked by it. It didn't sound a typical Keith Richards at all. Even the interviewer presupposed (by provocatively mentioning those 'last tour ever' people as a contrast) that Keith will come up with something like 'hell no this will be our last tour. Man, we are just getting better and better'- or 'yeah, it will be the last one, like the three following ones'. But what we had was a man sounding oddily realistic about it.
It could very well be that they very well know that the end of touring days is very near. So while they can they put all their energy and determination to touring at the moment. All the rest is secondary. I guess the moment Mick Jagger realizes that he cannot do a two hour Mick Jagger show any longer, that's the end of the story as far as The Rolling Stones as a live act go. We will never see any 'reduced' version of Mick Jagger ever.
But doesn't mean that they would be totally gone. They could very well at the moment starting having plans for their 'post-touring' days. To continue the story by other means if there still is a bit gas in their tank left. Which I surely think they have (for example, there is a huge grey area between putting a two hour Mick Jagger show and doing nothing). At least Jagger seems to spend quite a lot of time writing and making demos. He must have a helluva archieve by now. Despite performing, that's - making music - is a part of him being what he is as a creative artist. It could be very well that the future of the Stones and of Mick Jagger will be that of releasing new music. We have to also notice that he less and less uses his own physical presence as a selling point of his music. For example, the videos of "Gotta Get A Grip" and "England Lost" didn't include any physical sight of him.
There are alot of little odd signs in the air, even though it is pretty hard to read them. I'm starting to lean on towards Dandie's suggestion that what they will come up next is not something we think in form of traditional album but something different conceptually. Probably a couple of tracks released suddenly first, following probably the model of "Gotta Get A Grip"/"England Lost", belongs to the new cake. Then, say for Xmas 2019, a whole box of something strange to dig and wonder....
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-02 19:40 by Doxa.
A great post. Thanks, Cam. I just make a brief comment to the one in bold, many times mentioned here by many posters.
For creative artists, there is something strange about by claiming that the ability to make great results instead of mediocre ones is a matter of decision or will. Like they could actually control their muse. Like it would be so easy. I don't think when they did, say, VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG - albums seen by many as rather mediocre by their usual standards - that they weren't serious in those album: that of making them as they great as they can. They just couldn't do anything better then. One cannot force creativity.
It could be, as claimed, that they put this time more thought to the quality standard. Which would also explain why making a supposed new album takes so long. But we don't know where the standard lies. It could be that the results so far are so mediocre or far from finished that they wouldn't meet the criterion set by, say, A BIGGER BANG. And if we count all those not years but actual working days spent for making new music by now I don't think they have actually spent more time than they did for, say, their four previous albums. So one cannot claim that they have put more energy into this new project than for previous ones. And they surely aren't getting any younger.
So for me this talk of 'this time they make sure that it will be a great album' is just a wish-talk from us fans (or as an excuse to explain the time 'wasted' to the project). And nothing wrong with that. The album, or whatever form it will take, will be just a manifestation of what The Rolling Stones as creative artists are at the moment. Like always. Nothing more, nothing less.
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-02 20:41 by Doxa.
I really wonder what makes you so sure here. What if they tried numerous times in the past decades and it simply does not "click" anymore like in their best days as a songwriter team? Say about Mick what you want, but he surely is no idiot. If this "gathering with Keith and creating spontaneous music" working method would still work and constantly generate quality Stones material, Mick would not be so silly or at least stubborn to discard a winning formula.
That is entirely what i am saying, that Mick can still make music and might well come up with a solo album when he gets round to it, but he either can't or won't stand toe to toe with Keith. The truly great stuff was usually when Mick wrote with Keith.
Mick is not an idiot as you said, and he would not be so unintelligent as to release an album if the music wasn't say as good as his worst solo albums or as good as the last Stones album. I think the reason we haven't received solo albums from him in 18 years and counting, or a Stones album in 14 years is because he is not an idiot.
Unfortunately i think Mick is struggling creatively , all the evidence is there, he can still pull off the odd track like Doom And Gloom, but he doesn't have enough good material for a whole album with say 16 tracks.
I think Micks best chance to make great music is with Keith but for some reason he refuses to go there.
If the best Mick could come up with in he's 40's was Shes The Boss and Primitive Cool why do we expect better from him now.
Look 14 years is a very long time, ABB was written by a man who had just turned 60, now at 75 we think writing with Matt is going to deliver a fantastic album without Keith interested.
Personally i think Keith has lost interest because Mick just will not work with him up close and personal, Mick will not play with Keith and wait for something magical to happen. The question is why won't he. Keith obviously wants to work closely with Mick.
I have this friend who always won against me at squash for years, always had the upper hand and just managed to beat me. One day after lots of practice and reading a book on squash i finally won a match against my friend, and after that he never played against me again, always had an excuse. He couldn't handle the possibility of being number two. Imo Mick can't handle being number two to Keith since Crosseyed Heart, it shouldn't have been perceived that way by Mick but i wonder if in Micks eyes CH was Keith throwing down the gauntlet, it was like "hey Mick even as an old man i can come up with the goods without you", so Mick just won't go there with him now, just in case he can't deliver on demand. Egos are funny things, they take us to greater heights, but when something shatters them they become fragile. The lack of success of GGAG and England Lost must have hit Mick hard, for all we know it might be the best Mick had to offer for all his efforts over all these years.
It's my guess Mick just will not play with Keith on a level playing field.
_____________________________________
They spent three weeks writing together .. total I'd say (at least).
They also have material of their own and have worked on the stuff on their own
to see where they could take it on their own.
They have had ample song writing time in .. As far as recording goes the boys probably have two or three weeks in together as well.
That's not alot .. but they have been chipping away at it slowly. If the chemistry wasn't there .. they wouldn't keep getting together one-on-one ..
My feeling is they were not satisfied with the strength of what they have done so they are trying various writing and new material throughout this.
Problem is they have done it sooooo slowly! Ha
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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: December 1, 2018 05:20
While I don't doubt they get along better now (as in the last four years) than they were say six or seven years ago, I suspect that's largely confined to performing.
If they were truly in a harmonious working relationship, they would have finished the album by now and, most critically, spent their time together creating new music instead of playing "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" with each others' respective ideas that they develop separately.
Yes, you can say I'm guilty of extrapolation by saying Keith doesn't want to overdub on Jagger-Clifford songs and Mick doesn't want to sit around the way Steve Jordan will and just play endlessly until "something happens, man."
Damn, this site is addictive. I really need a sabbatical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 05:21 by Rocky Dijon.
If they were truly in a harmonious working relationship, they would have finished the album by now and, most critically, spent their time together creating new music instead of playing "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" with each others' respective ideas that they develop separately.
Yes, you can say I'm guilty of extrapolation by saying Keith doesn't want to overdub on Jagger-Clifford songs and Mick doesn't want to sit around the way Steve Jordan will and just play endlessly until "something happens, man."
Damn, this site is addictive. I really need a sabbatical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 05:21 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
nonfilter
()
Date: December 1, 2018 06:39
My first album I ever bought was Steel Wheels at age 12. I insisted on vinyl believe it or not. I wore that record out. The first CD I ever bought was Tattoo You. It’s the only one I owned the whole time I was 15. I bought Voodoo lounge the day it was released and obsessed over it all summer. I was 17 then. I still love that album. I remember thinking they’d gotten back to sounding like themselves after Steel Wheels. Bridges To Babylon came out when I was in college. My primary goal in life for the following year was to turn all my friends on to that album. I did a good job. About 70% of them still listen to it occasionally. I was working out of town when A Bugger Bang came out. I bought it at midnight, the minute it was released. I had called a local radio station earlier that week and requested “Rough Justice” the day it was released. I fell in love with the song, then I heard the album and was greatly let down. It sounded like they wrote most of the songs in three minutes. I still enjoyed it, but relied on the “fact” that they’d do it right again on the next album. I’m in an unsuccessful band. I’ve written probably 200 songs. Some are really good. Some are horrible. You have to make yourself do it after the first 10 or so. Taking their time would mean putting in the effort they did on Voodoo. Time does not make great songs. Would “19th Nervous Breakdown” have been better if they had worked on it and second guessed it for 14 years? No. It would be been lost in the shuffle. Jumping Jack Flash hooked me at 11 years old. They wrote and recorded it in a very short time. Half of my obsession with this band has been inspired by their ridiculous work ethic. Words can’t describe how disappointed I am that Paul McCartney has essentially outlasted them. I’ll go see them in Chicago and be blown away, but, it would’ve been better if they had just announced they were retiring from making albums after Bridges. I have gone through 3-4 years of being super hyped then disappointed based on the ever-changing stories from the band, George licks, bv, and every other news outlet. A month ago, there was a June album with multiple singles coming first. November Paris sessions to finish the album. Now Ronnie is going to hang with Mick and Mick would like to maybe think about recording new material. Meanwhile, Keith is at Waddy’s family reunion. I’m so confused. More time equals higher expectations. Record 12 songs you like. If people don’t like it, record 12 more you like. Release them. Repeat cycle. The Rolling Stones originally made music they liked and lucked out. Millions of others liked it as well.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
bam
()
Date: December 1, 2018 06:39
On pages 140 and 192, I suggested:
“Perhaps bv or the thread originator can change the name to another Stones studio album in 2023.”
On p.192, bv took the year out of the thread”s title, and changed it to “Another Stones studio album coming Up.” He also pointed out the thread started in 2016.
The title hasn’t changed back again, but that may be coming. I just hope my joking suggestion of 2023 wasn”t accurate.
“Perhaps bv or the thread originator can change the name to another Stones studio album in 2023.”
On p.192, bv took the year out of the thread”s title, and changed it to “Another Stones studio album coming Up.” He also pointed out the thread started in 2016.
The title hasn’t changed back again, but that may be coming. I just hope my joking suggestion of 2023 wasn”t accurate.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: December 1, 2018 07:21
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
gotdablouse
That "Time's Up" song sounds more remarkable than anything a Stone has come up with since..hum some songs on "Wandering Spirit" maybe, at least the title track. B2B had a couple of lasting tracks too, ABB ? None if anyone's honest about it.
My mistake. The title of the track was "Time Flies." My brain skipped to the second Living Colour album that Mick played on and confused the titles.
Hi Rocky! "Time Flies", "High or Low", "Smooth 180", "Scarlet", "Dont Apologize", "I'm cured", "Young Love", "Ever Changing World"...all the outtakes/unfinished songs, hidden gems from previous sessions...
They have enough material to make other 10 "Tattoo You"!!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 10:05 by KRiffhard.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: December 1, 2018 12:02
The two tweets above is one reason there is a decade between new releases these days. They don't work as a group any more, rather as separate entities.
Hence the home studios. It is as if the split in the mid eighties was never mended. Remember the days when we were spoilt with a new album every year?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 12:06 by Stoneage.
Hence the home studios. It is as if the split in the mid eighties was never mended. Remember the days when we were spoilt with a new album every year?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 12:06 by Stoneage.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 1, 2018 12:55
Quote
Hairball
I brought this up before in this thread, but there was a quote from Mick on Timisonourside.com (forget the exact date of quote, but probably a couple of decades ago) - to paraphrase:
"Keith can be difficult in the studio just for the sake of being difficult. He might actually like something, but his stubbornness gets in the way".
So seems Keith can be a stubborn old jerk, and thats probably why Mick went ahead with Getta Grip/England Lost with Charlie and Ronnie in tow.
Where does this leave Keith? A grumpy and lonely old mean-spirited little man whose unwilling to collaborate even if it's for the good of the band.
Well wait a minute here, that might be a little unfair on Keith, did Keith not have every right to reject England Lost, BV said that Mick and Keith want this album to be very good, better than the previous 4 or 5 Albums, England Lost really doesn't make the grade does it.
Also i get the impression Mick can also be stubborn, and lets face it most Stones albums of originals over the last few decades have been very much Mick orientated.
I just think Keith is demanding more of a co effort this time, i believe Keith wants to write with Mick rather than each coming to the table with their own music.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
dave9199
()
Date: December 1, 2018 14:45
I have a thing that I just want them to put out a new original album within every decade they are together. There is still 13 months to go. If they survive into 2020 I won't hope for another album but I will be hoping they make it to 60 years in May 2022. That's only 3 & 1/2 years away.
What's amazing to realize is as long as I've been alive (I'll be 50 next May) The Rolling Stones have been together. I have not lived a single day without this band existing. People have lived entire lives while they've been together. My brother is six years older than me. He was conceived in October 1962. The Stones had gotten together five months before. Part of my interest with them is how long they will last.
What's amazing to realize is as long as I've been alive (I'll be 50 next May) The Rolling Stones have been together. I have not lived a single day without this band existing. People have lived entire lives while they've been together. My brother is six years older than me. He was conceived in October 1962. The Stones had gotten together five months before. Part of my interest with them is how long they will last.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 1, 2018 15:23
Quote
dave9199
I have a thing that I just want them to put out a new original album within every decade they are together. There is still 13 months to go. If they survive into 2020 I won't hope for another album but I will be hoping they make it to 60 years in May 2022. That's only 3 & 1/2 years away.
What's amazing to realize is as long as I've been alive (I'll be 50 next May) The Rolling Stones have been together. I have not lived a single day without this band existing. People have lived entire lives while they've been together. My brother is six years older than me. He was conceived in October 1962. The Stones had gotten together five months before. Part of my interest with them is how long they will last.
Yes dave9199 they are amazing and sometimes we all get too critical of them, i'm 53 years old born in 65 and they have been active as a band since before i was born ( not Ronnie ) but on the other hand they have been saying that an album is coming for three years and they do charge top Dollar for a show that's almost the same since 89' only now they are past their best by a long shot at performing that show. I paid £25 to see them up front standing in 1990 and last year to see them up close costs between £250 to £700. It's become a predictable circus, these days we don't get to see the wild animals or the trapeze artist without a net, we get the high wire ten feet from the ground and the clowns.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: December 1, 2018 17:44
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
I don't know what it is about you Rocky, but you have an ease, and flow that eludes the rest of us here.
This has been frustrating for all of us. Ronnie slipped, as he often does, and acknowledged he's joining Mick in the studio in Paris "next week" (which could be this week, depending when the interview was done).
Keith says the December session isn't likely to happen, but maybe February and March. Perhaps it's a matter of Keith won't be there because he doesn't like what's on tap. Darryl missed the session last week when Bernard was in the studio, but intends to be there this week/next week which is likewise interesting.
The most revealing comment Mick has made is "you think you've written something very good and then realize you haven't." I don't believe he or Keith have writer's block. I do believe there is an ongoing situation like we saw last year where Keith says of Mick and Matt's songs, "they ain't Stones songs, if you want to put them out, put them out on your own and the bugger went and did it."
It appears Mick will visit Keith in the studio periodically after working on his own or with Matt. Don Was is sometimes present and sometimes not, likely based on his opinion of the demos. Don, Keith, and Mick say it's "early days yet" despite Universal thinking they had an album just needing final touches. Ronnie and Charlie plead ignorance and suggest they thought the album was done ages ago. Matt Clifford and Steve Jordan are largely the creative equivalent of sex surrogates in the Jagger-Richards marriage.
It would appear, purely speculation on my part, that the problem is whether or not Keith thinks Mick's songs are Stones-worthy or not. When Keith didn't and Mick released a solo single, Ronnie and Charlie still played on the tracks. Friendship? Loyalty? Divided opinions? Your guess is as good as mine. Matt produced and wrote the two tracks. Not Keith. No Don Was credit either. There seems to be a Keith and Don Was alignment on this album which is interesting, if not very productive.
If my speculation is correct, there will be fans who blame Keith for being the bottleneck and fans who blame Mick for chasing trends or daring to experiment. Would I rather wait for them to "get it right?" No, I'd rather have Jagger-Clifford songs packaged as Jagger-Richards for the sake of it and like some of the tracks and dislike others and bitch and moan on iorr for months or years than I would risk having more material stay locked up in the vault. I would also rather have 19 mediocre and poor songs I complain about than 10 pretty good songs and always wonder what else they recorded. I am a fan. I am not Quality Control. I want it all even when I don't like it.
As for the State of the Union, Keith either turns up or it looks like he and maybe Don are the no-shows as the album moves forward. Not World War III, but likely a Cold War. Glad Mick hasn't thrown in the towel and just said forget it. I look forward to the results with interest, but suspect GeorgeLicks' (Soldatti's) next update won't be a good one. Bjornulf had a reason to remove the "sticky" from the thread, but was too much of a gentleman to disclose what he knew.
Happily, I am lacking in manners as much as I am brevity.
I meant it as a compliment. "a stylistic ease & flow" that the rest of us do not have. LOL
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: December 1, 2018 18:20
In light of album progress, they definitely should add “Hang Fire” to the set list
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 18:22 by Send It To me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 18:22 by Send It To me.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: December 1, 2018 18:36
@#$%& the new album stuff. Dont believe in it anymore. They will keep on touring till one if them dies or gets sick. Maybe in 2030 we will get some new music. I will be dead then.
Jeroen
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
mailexile67
()
Date: December 1, 2018 18:46
233 & Counting..No news, no Paris visions, no new music...Nothing...What a beautiful world!
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: December 1, 2018 19:22
Quote
corriecas
@#$%& the new album stuff. Dont believe in it anymore. They will keep on touring till one if them dies or gets sick. Maybe in 2030 we will get some new music. I will be dead then.
Jeroen
Well, quite true really.
They are only following the likes of Chuck Berry and the 1950's rockers. Chuck by and large gave up on recording any original stuff for the last half of his career (at least The Stones have been more productive than that).
Chuck still toured of course...more concerts than The Stones...but clearly concert receipts were more important to him than any effort at being creative in the studio.
Sounds familiar eh?
Thank God we have the likes of Van Morrison, Macca, Springsteen, all of whom are able to come up with new work.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 1, 2018 20:23
Quote
jloweQuote
corriecas
@#$%& the new album stuff. Dont believe in it anymore. They will keep on touring till one if them dies or gets sick. Maybe in 2030 we will get some new music. I will be dead then.
Jeroen
Well, quite true really.
They are only following the likes of Chuck Berry and the 1950's rockers. Chuck by and large gave up on recording any original stuff for the last half of his career (at least The Stones have been more productive than that).
Chuck still toured of course...more concerts than The Stones...but clearly concert receipts were more important to him than any effort at being creative in the studio.
Sounds familiar eh?
Thank God we have the likes of Van Morrison, Macca, Springsteen, all of whom are able to come up with new work.
Judging by the people Mick & Keith like to hang with its looking like we could be getting more music from the Glimmers had they called time on the Stones.
Keith has probably been waiting for the Stones to stop touring so he can make another album with Steve, Waddy and co and maybe tour with them again.
Mick would surely be more productive away from Keith turning those demos into albums. Who knows Mick might surprise us with an excellent solo album or two.
Seriously i want the Stones to wrap it up now so they can do other things instead of selling out all the time.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: December 1, 2018 23:15
Keith and Mick worked well together on ABB and got along quite well. Keith encouraged Mick to play drums as Charlie was not yet back from his medical procedure. I guess maybe they had better material to work on they had good songs with Biggest Mistake, She Saw Me Coming, Let Me Down Slow, It wont get Long,Under The Radar,Back Of My Hand,Infamy,This Place is empty, etc.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
daniel t
()
Date: December 2, 2018 00:30
Quote
jloweQuote
daniel t
Personnally, I don't believe in those guys breaking their backs creating new stuff...
Why would they do that? As long as we buy tickets to see and hear them playing the same od 19 songs, I don't see the point in getting a new album on the market. Especially knowing that when they sell a $55.00 t-shirt and make 25 times more profit with it than by selling an album.....
C'mon... Let's be serous. I would do the same.
Except...
David Crosby
Neil Young etc
who are all prolific and putting out albums (which in the main) the fans are happy with.
And still touring.
BB King: was making albums till (near) the end...Muddy Waters..probably the same.
So you can't generalise.
I was talking about the Stones... I don't see where I generalized...
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: December 2, 2018 01:44
How about this?
It is 5 1/2 months, okay 4 months until rehearsal TOUR SPRING 2019
Maybe the have a tune or 2 to keep us hooked up while we wait.
Maybe a cover album of party tunes while we wait.
After December wraps
it’s a cold hard Jan Feb while we wait for Spring.
Something Something Jan Feb if I were to guess (and I am 100% not informed of new music release)
It is 5 1/2 months, okay 4 months until rehearsal TOUR SPRING 2019
Maybe the have a tune or 2 to keep us hooked up while we wait.
Maybe a cover album of party tunes while we wait.
After December wraps
it’s a cold hard Jan Feb while we wait for Spring.
Something Something Jan Feb if I were to guess (and I am 100% not informed of new music release)
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: December 2, 2018 13:27
Ronnie seems to be in London, and not in Paris.
You wonder...what will happen with the booked studio time???
Maybe they will be in the studio next week????
jeroen
You wonder...what will happen with the booked studio time???
Maybe they will be in the studio next week????
jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 2, 2018 16:49
Quote
corriecas
Ronnie seems to be in London, and not in Paris.
You wonder...what will happen with the booked studio time???
Maybe they will be in the studio next week????
jeroen
What do people expect them to achieve in a week, they've done sod all in three years, Christmas is coming, don't hold your breath for anything substantial.
I'm not entirely sure Mick hasn't got writers block, it's not looking good is it, why will he not stand toe to toe with Keith and create new spontaneous music ? because he cant't.
I said three years ago Mick will be intimidated by Crosseyed Heart and i was right.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: December 2, 2018 17:11
This is getting increasingly silly. London to Paris is nothing. Ronnie could have been there and gone home to see his son for the weekend. Alternatively, Ronnie's "next week in Paris" could be next week.
And why would anyone think an album like CROSSEYED HEART, enjoyable as it is, would intimidate Mick? Do you think he harbors a secret desire to sing very slow "honey, honey, honey - baby, baby, baby" songs or "Goodnight, Irene?"
I look at it like CROSSEYED HEART and "Gotta Get a Grip" / "England Lost" show how far apart they are musically. Unlike MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT which gave birth to VOODOO LOUNGE and BRIDGES TO BABYLON. BLUE AND LONESOME are where they still connect.
I don't buy the party line that the songs are still very rough demos despite hiring expensive and overbooked producers (like Don Was and Carl Falk) and overdubbing backing vocals and an acclaimed jazz trumpeter. They've either decided to hold back the album until the band is finished for commercial reasons or Keith is absenting himself until he likes what he hears from Mick.
The only other notion along those lines is after Mick thinks a song has been put together by him and/or Matt and with or without Keith's input or approval, he runs them down with Ronnie and Charlie before Keith will add his parts or choose to abstain. Likewise Don Was' participation as producer. That would explain "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." It would also make sense of a Paris session this year without Keith.
Of course, it's only speculation (but some of us like it).
And why would anyone think an album like CROSSEYED HEART, enjoyable as it is, would intimidate Mick? Do you think he harbors a secret desire to sing very slow "honey, honey, honey - baby, baby, baby" songs or "Goodnight, Irene?"
I look at it like CROSSEYED HEART and "Gotta Get a Grip" / "England Lost" show how far apart they are musically. Unlike MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT which gave birth to VOODOO LOUNGE and BRIDGES TO BABYLON. BLUE AND LONESOME are where they still connect.
I don't buy the party line that the songs are still very rough demos despite hiring expensive and overbooked producers (like Don Was and Carl Falk) and overdubbing backing vocals and an acclaimed jazz trumpeter. They've either decided to hold back the album until the band is finished for commercial reasons or Keith is absenting himself until he likes what he hears from Mick.
The only other notion along those lines is after Mick thinks a song has been put together by him and/or Matt and with or without Keith's input or approval, he runs them down with Ronnie and Charlie before Keith will add his parts or choose to abstain. Likewise Don Was' participation as producer. That would explain "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." It would also make sense of a Paris session this year without Keith.
Of course, it's only speculation (but some of us like it).
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
beachbreak
()
Date: December 2, 2018 18:17
Quote
@#$%& the new album stuff. Dont believe in it anymore. They will keep on touring till one if them dies or gets sick.
I now agree. The well may have run dry as any new stuff may not be worthy of their current song catalog (which is masterful).
Maybe they went into the studio to record, the new stuff was not good, so they recorded B&L instead?
Time is short and the water is rising and most of 2019 will be touring.
I doubt we ever see a new album of original material.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 2, 2018 19:15
Quote
retired_dog
b) they're constantly record material over the years because by now, the end of their touring years is (very) near and by now, they know it. Keith's interview quote "next tour could be the last one, I don't know" or the like does indeed sound very different from the joyous mood of the "we tour until we die"-attitude he came up with until now.
Once the touring days will be finally over, having one or two album's worth of material in the can does probably make more commercial sense than putting out the stuff now while they still generate a considerable income from playing live.
Good that also someone else picked up that Keith remark about the probability of the next tour being the last one. I was almost shocked by it. It didn't sound a typical Keith Richards at all. Even the interviewer presupposed (by provocatively mentioning those 'last tour ever' people as a contrast) that Keith will come up with something like 'hell no this will be our last tour. Man, we are just getting better and better'- or 'yeah, it will be the last one, like the three following ones'. But what we had was a man sounding oddily realistic about it.
It could very well be that they very well know that the end of touring days is very near. So while they can they put all their energy and determination to touring at the moment. All the rest is secondary. I guess the moment Mick Jagger realizes that he cannot do a two hour Mick Jagger show any longer, that's the end of the story as far as The Rolling Stones as a live act go. We will never see any 'reduced' version of Mick Jagger ever.
But doesn't mean that they would be totally gone. They could very well at the moment starting having plans for their 'post-touring' days. To continue the story by other means if there still is a bit gas in their tank left. Which I surely think they have (for example, there is a huge grey area between putting a two hour Mick Jagger show and doing nothing). At least Jagger seems to spend quite a lot of time writing and making demos. He must have a helluva archieve by now. Despite performing, that's - making music - is a part of him being what he is as a creative artist. It could be very well that the future of the Stones and of Mick Jagger will be that of releasing new music. We have to also notice that he less and less uses his own physical presence as a selling point of his music. For example, the videos of "Gotta Get A Grip" and "England Lost" didn't include any physical sight of him.
There are alot of little odd signs in the air, even though it is pretty hard to read them. I'm starting to lean on towards Dandie's suggestion that what they will come up next is not something we think in form of traditional album but something different conceptually. Probably a couple of tracks released suddenly first, following probably the model of "Gotta Get A Grip"/"England Lost", belongs to the new cake. Then, say for Xmas 2019, a whole box of something strange to dig and wonder....
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-02 19:40 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
CamRS
()
Date: December 2, 2018 19:19
After following this thread and all of the opinions and speculation that is going into the making of this album, I thought why not add more?
As noted by bv, georgelicks and others, the band seems determined to make a great album. As this is probably the last statement they’ll make, I’m sure Mick and Keith are putting immense pressure on themselves to come up with great material. The surprising success of Blue and Lonesome has probably only added to that pressure.
Someone else on this board also noted that the band decided all must agree on the songs this time around. So while something like Gotta Get a Grip/England Lost may have made it onto an album in the past, this time around Keith (who’s never been a fan of overtly political songs) vetoed the two. Why does it matter that Charlie and Ronnie participated in it and not Keith? I really don’t think these two songs have created some wedge between Mick and Keith as others have speculated.
As far as their creative process, I’m not really going to critique the way the Glimmers come up with their songs. Creative people have their thing that works for them and theirs have evolved over the years. However, with the passing of Anita, L’Wrens suicide, getting old and losing people around over the last few years, there’s a lot of inspiration around them to write some really meaningful songs that I hope they’re using.
I’m looking forward to whatever new songs they come up, no matter how long it takes for them to release it.
-Cam
As noted by bv, georgelicks and others, the band seems determined to make a great album. As this is probably the last statement they’ll make, I’m sure Mick and Keith are putting immense pressure on themselves to come up with great material. The surprising success of Blue and Lonesome has probably only added to that pressure.
Someone else on this board also noted that the band decided all must agree on the songs this time around. So while something like Gotta Get a Grip/England Lost may have made it onto an album in the past, this time around Keith (who’s never been a fan of overtly political songs) vetoed the two. Why does it matter that Charlie and Ronnie participated in it and not Keith? I really don’t think these two songs have created some wedge between Mick and Keith as others have speculated.
As far as their creative process, I’m not really going to critique the way the Glimmers come up with their songs. Creative people have their thing that works for them and theirs have evolved over the years. However, with the passing of Anita, L’Wrens suicide, getting old and losing people around over the last few years, there’s a lot of inspiration around them to write some really meaningful songs that I hope they’re using.
I’m looking forward to whatever new songs they come up, no matter how long it takes for them to release it.
-Cam
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 2, 2018 20:10
Quote
CamRS
After following this thread and all of the opinions and speculation that is going into the making of this album, I thought why not add more?
As noted by bv, georgelicks and others, the band seems determined to make a great album. As this is probably the last statement they’ll make, I’m sure Mick and Keith are putting immense pressure on themselves to come up with great material. The surprising success of Blue and Lonesome has probably only added to that pressure.
Someone else on this board also noted that the band decided all must agree on the songs this time around. So while something like Gotta Get a Grip/England Lost may have made it onto an album in the past, this time around Keith (who’s never been a fan of overtly political songs) vetoed the two. Why does it matter that Charlie and Ronnie participated in it and not Keith? I really don’t think these two songs have created some wedge between Mick and Keith as others have speculated.
As far as their creative process, I’m not really going to critique the way the Glimmers come up with their songs. Creative people have their thing that works for them and theirs have evolved over the years. However, with the passing of Anita, L’Wrens suicide, getting old and losing people around over the last few years, there’s a lot of inspiration around them to write some really meaningful songs that I hope they’re using.
I’m looking forward to whatever new songs they come up, no matter how long it takes for them to release it.
-Cam
A great post. Thanks, Cam. I just make a brief comment to the one in bold, many times mentioned here by many posters.
For creative artists, there is something strange about by claiming that the ability to make great results instead of mediocre ones is a matter of decision or will. Like they could actually control their muse. Like it would be so easy. I don't think when they did, say, VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG - albums seen by many as rather mediocre by their usual standards - that they weren't serious in those album: that of making them as they great as they can. They just couldn't do anything better then. One cannot force creativity.
It could be, as claimed, that they put this time more thought to the quality standard. Which would also explain why making a supposed new album takes so long. But we don't know where the standard lies. It could be that the results so far are so mediocre or far from finished that they wouldn't meet the criterion set by, say, A BIGGER BANG. And if we count all those not years but actual working days spent for making new music by now I don't think they have actually spent more time than they did for, say, their four previous albums. So one cannot claim that they have put more energy into this new project than for previous ones. And they surely aren't getting any younger.
So for me this talk of 'this time they make sure that it will be a great album' is just a wish-talk from us fans (or as an excuse to explain the time 'wasted' to the project). And nothing wrong with that. The album, or whatever form it will take, will be just a manifestation of what The Rolling Stones as creative artists are at the moment. Like always. Nothing more, nothing less.
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-02 20:41 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: December 2, 2018 20:34
Quote
keithsmanQuote
corriecas
Ronnie seems to be in London, and not in Paris.
You wonder...what will happen with the booked studio time???
Maybe they will be in the studio next week????
jeroen
What do people expect them to achieve in a week, they've done sod all in three years, Christmas is coming, don't hold your breath for anything substantial.
I'm not entirely sure Mick hasn't got writers block, it's not looking good is it, why will he not stand toe to toe with Keith and create new spontaneous music ? because he cant't.
I said three years ago Mick will be intimidated by Crosseyed Heart and i was right.
I really wonder what makes you so sure here. What if they tried numerous times in the past decades and it simply does not "click" anymore like in their best days as a songwriter team? Say about Mick what you want, but he surely is no idiot. If this "gathering with Keith and creating spontaneous music" working method would still work and constantly generate quality Stones material, Mick would not be so silly or at least stubborn to discard a winning formula.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 01:34
Quote
retired_dogQuote
keithsmanQuote
corriecas
Ronnie seems to be in London, and not in Paris.
You wonder...what will happen with the booked studio time???
Maybe they will be in the studio next week????
jeroen
What do people expect them to achieve in a week, they've done sod all in three years, Christmas is coming, don't hold your breath for anything substantial.
I'm not entirely sure Mick hasn't got writers block, it's not looking good is it, why will he not stand toe to toe with Keith and create new spontaneous music ? because he cant't.
I said three years ago Mick will be intimidated by Crosseyed Heart and i was right.
I really wonder what makes you so sure here. What if they tried numerous times in the past decades and it simply does not "click" anymore like in their best days as a songwriter team? Say about Mick what you want, but he surely is no idiot. If this "gathering with Keith and creating spontaneous music" working method would still work and constantly generate quality Stones material, Mick would not be so silly or at least stubborn to discard a winning formula.
That is entirely what i am saying, that Mick can still make music and might well come up with a solo album when he gets round to it, but he either can't or won't stand toe to toe with Keith. The truly great stuff was usually when Mick wrote with Keith.
Mick is not an idiot as you said, and he would not be so unintelligent as to release an album if the music wasn't say as good as his worst solo albums or as good as the last Stones album. I think the reason we haven't received solo albums from him in 18 years and counting, or a Stones album in 14 years is because he is not an idiot.
Unfortunately i think Mick is struggling creatively , all the evidence is there, he can still pull off the odd track like Doom And Gloom, but he doesn't have enough good material for a whole album with say 16 tracks.
I think Micks best chance to make great music is with Keith but for some reason he refuses to go there.
If the best Mick could come up with in he's 40's was Shes The Boss and Primitive Cool why do we expect better from him now.
Look 14 years is a very long time, ABB was written by a man who had just turned 60, now at 75 we think writing with Matt is going to deliver a fantastic album without Keith interested.
Personally i think Keith has lost interest because Mick just will not work with him up close and personal, Mick will not play with Keith and wait for something magical to happen. The question is why won't he. Keith obviously wants to work closely with Mick.
I have this friend who always won against me at squash for years, always had the upper hand and just managed to beat me. One day after lots of practice and reading a book on squash i finally won a match against my friend, and after that he never played against me again, always had an excuse. He couldn't handle the possibility of being number two. Imo Mick can't handle being number two to Keith since Crosseyed Heart, it shouldn't have been perceived that way by Mick but i wonder if in Micks eyes CH was Keith throwing down the gauntlet, it was like "hey Mick even as an old man i can come up with the goods without you", so Mick just won't go there with him now, just in case he can't deliver on demand. Egos are funny things, they take us to greater heights, but when something shatters them they become fragile. The lack of success of GGAG and England Lost must have hit Mick hard, for all we know it might be the best Mick had to offer for all his efforts over all these years.
It's my guess Mick just will not play with Keith on a level playing field.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: December 3, 2018 01:44
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
IanBillen
()
Date: December 3, 2018 02:05
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
_____________________________________
They spent three weeks writing together .. total I'd say (at least).
They also have material of their own and have worked on the stuff on their own
to see where they could take it on their own.
They have had ample song writing time in .. As far as recording goes the boys probably have two or three weeks in together as well.
That's not alot .. but they have been chipping away at it slowly. If the chemistry wasn't there .. they wouldn't keep getting together one-on-one ..
My feeling is they were not satisfied with the strength of what they have done so they are trying various writing and new material throughout this.
Problem is they have done it sooooo slowly! Ha
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: December 3, 2018 02:15
While your enthusiasm is as admirable as always, Ian, if the chemistry was still there, Mr. Clifford and Mr. Jordan wouldn't be needed.
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