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doitywoik
By the way, Charlie had a solo LP out in 2017, lest we forget ...
Good old Charlie is more productive than the Stones!!!
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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
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Hairball
I'm sure that he hopes it's good material, but don't know if he puts much thought into the final product other than his drum parts - after all his his first love is jazz.
And I don't think he has much input on the written material itself, after all he said "I don't write the songs". But when it comes to his drum parts, I'm sure he has a much bigger role and voicing what his preferences are.
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keithsmanQuote
harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.
If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.
I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.
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IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..
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HairballQuote
IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..
I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!
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keithsmanQuote
harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.
If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.
I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.
that's funny. Struggles?.
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HairballQuote
IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..
I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!
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keithsmanQuote
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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.
If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.
I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.
that's funny. Struggles?.
Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.
Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.
ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.
This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.
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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.
If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.
I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.
that's funny. Struggles?.
Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.
Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.
ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.
This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.
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keithsmanQuote
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keithsmanQuote
harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible
As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.
If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.
I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.
that's funny. Struggles?.
Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.
Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.
ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.
This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.
I am an average guitar player at best, and I am absolutely incapable of playing any kind of convincing solo, but even so, I really don't understand why Keith's live solos on SFTD have to sound so absolutely cringeworthy in the past 10 years or so. I can only guess he's trying to do something extremely rhythmically original, but it really doesn't work at all.
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keithsman
Yes i agree, he can obviously do a better job of it and get a bit closer to the original if he wanted too, he seems to treat SFTD like a meet and greet. I get the feeling it's like some weird protest from Keith lol. Its a song he probably doesn't want to play anymore so he has a little stab at it, doing the bare minimum and a meet and greet, same with Miss You, meet and greet and a rest. I can't blame him after playing them for so many years. Like when he obviously didn't want to start with SMU at Hyde Park, the second Hyde Park SMU intro was a deliberate mistake imho.
I get frustrated when i look back, SFTD was a real crowd pleaser for Keith in 89' 90' it was his best live solo ever during this period and it would last for 5 or 6 minutes. He knows he is a shadow of himself with this solo, i'm surprised Mick hasn't showed more mercy to Keith and dropped it from the set. Very strange, Mick knows Keith struggles with it, it written all over Mick's face. But there you have it, that's entertainment. Some sort of mind games going on between Mick and Keith with that one
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keithsman
Yes i agree, he can obviously do a better job of it and get a bit closer to the original if he wanted too, he seems to treat SFTD like a meet and greet. I get the feeling it's like some weird protest from Keith lol. Its a song he probably doesn't want to play anymore so he has a little stab at it, doing the bare minimum and a meet and greet, same with Miss You, meet and greet and a rest. I can't blame him after playing them for so many years. Like when he obviously didn't want to start with SMU at Hyde Park, the second Hyde Park SMU intro was a deliberate mistake imho.
I get frustrated when i look back, SFTD was a real crowd pleaser for Keith in 89' 90' it was his best live solo ever during this period and it would last for 5 or 6 minutes. He knows he is a shadow of himself with this solo, i'm surprised Mick hasn't showed more mercy to Keith and dropped it from the set. Very strange, Mick knows Keith struggles with it, it written all over Mick's face. But there you have it, that's entertainment. Some sort of mind games going on between Mick and Keith with that one
I honestly can't believe that Keith would do this on purpose. I can believe any silly quarrel between them, but deliberately messing up a song..., no, I don't believe that.
I can't find any explanation really, because even with arthritis or less finger flexibility, playing some kind of decent pentatonic thing in E can't be too difficult. Even just playing 3 notes in some kind of pattern would be better than what he does. It's really rather strange.
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keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
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matxilQuote
keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Cool links! Cheers.
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keithsmanQuote
matxilQuote
keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Cool links! Cheers.
Yeah there was i thinking Keith was doing ok last year until i found those to clips. I'ts easy to forget just how good he was, he gave Mick a run for his money in those days. He still has a larger than life stage presence, but jeez he was a force of nature in his prime.
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doitywoik
Keith had problems all over the place during the whole tour (2017), with bad days and worse days. We had lots of speculations as to what might be the reason, all of which - of course - led nowhere. My impression was, especially during the first half of the tour, that it was often the blues numbers that got a more coherent rendition. Maybe he tried harder there because they were not the usual stuff? To be able to ignore the problems, some folks even came up with explanations such as 'We just don't understand his playing because it's from another galaxy'. What I found frightening were those moments (as e.g. in Spielberg, I think it was) when he just stood there, seemingly puzzled, watching his axe and hands, like wondering, 'OK, so here's a guitar, here's a hand, here's another hand, and those things down there, aren't they strings? So what am I gonna do now?'.
Let's see what his playing will be like in the upcoming tour. In 2 1/2 months we will know more. I would also find it unfair to expect from him the chops he had in 1989/90 (apart from the fact that certain coordination problems showed already back then), but one could still hope for proper performances even if virtuoso playing (whatever that means in a Stones context) is no longer on the agenda.
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keithsmanQuote
doitywoik
Keith had problems all over the place during the whole tour (2017), with bad days and worse days. We had lots of speculations as to what might be the reason, all of which - of course - led nowhere. My impression was, especially during the first half of the tour, that it was often the blues numbers that got a more coherent rendition. Maybe he tried harder there because they were not the usual stuff? To be able to ignore the problems, some folks even came up with explanations such as 'We just don't understand his playing because it's from another galaxy'. What I found frightening were those moments (as e.g. in Spielberg, I think it was) when he just stood there, seemingly puzzled, watching his axe and hands, like wondering, 'OK, so here's a guitar, here's a hand, here's another hand, and those things down there, aren't they strings? So what am I gonna do now?'.
Let's see what his playing will be like in the upcoming tour. In 2 1/2 months we will know more. I would also find it unfair to expect from him the chops he had in 1989/90 (apart from the fact that certain coordination problems showed already back then), but one could still hope for proper performances even if virtuoso playing (whatever that means in a Stones context) is no longer on the agenda.
Well theirs some truth in your slightly over dramatized tale of events. I got to see them twice towards the end of the last tour and Keith was great, better than i expected for sure after his slow start to the tour. I don't think Keith is capable of being terrible for a whole show but he had some senior moments as did Mick and Charlie on various occasions. The majority of his senior moments seemed to be during SFTD.
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.
Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?
I'm with you when you say its unfair to expect anything like the virtuoso performances of 89' 90' and like you i hope for some improvement with a new sober recharged Keith this time out, it's his last chance to go down in the history books as still being a great guitarist to the very end, delivering proper performances as you so eloquently put it.
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keithsman
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.
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keithsman
Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?
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Rocky Dijon
but...my two cents is Ronnie's best work was before the Stones. He has really turned around in recent years, but he can still be variable in concert.
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Rocky Dijon
For me, Keith's arthritis didn't seem to be an issue during the Winos tours.