5:14... "I can't drive... I've wanted to drive them. They're so bloody hard to drive. They're old."

[www.youtube.com]

Ah, OK. I understood that in a way that he just couldn't drive the old ones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-06 20:10 by doitywoik.

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Hairball

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doitywoik
By the way, Charlie had a solo LP out in 2017, lest we forget ...

Good old Charlie is more productive than the Stones!!!

OK, let's be honest: the release date was April 2017 but it was recorded already in 2010.

Speaking of Charlie's solo output: anyone interested how the (supposedly) most conservative Stone of all time sounds at the turn of the millenia should check out The Charlie Watts Jim Keltner Project (CD from 2000) - great modern-sounding percussion CD (no clue though how much of that was really Charlie's input), anyway, Mick might wanna check it out too, much more "recent/experimental/up-to-date/etc." than anything he did in recent times ...

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

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Hairball
I'm sure that he hopes it's good material, but don't know if he puts much thought into the final product other than his drum parts - after all his his first love is jazz.
And I don't think he has much input on the written material itself, after all he said "I don't write the songs". But when it comes to his drum parts, I'm sure he has a much bigger role and voicing what his preferences are.

____________________________________________


He knows whether it is good material or not at this point. He's playing on em songs so he knows them and knows how they go. He also has an idea of the hold up I'm sure ..


He also knows what they sound like (at least right now) .. he just didn't / doesn't want to say.

The mix can change that from a little to a lot as you know. I dont think he is concerned at all or gives em any thought as you said. Im sure he got the drum parts down and had input there .. well in fact.. it was all his input ..hes the drummer. He sits down and starts playing on them.


Charlie doesn't care .. I get that... but he knows the scoop to a point (maybe not all of it bc it is mostly between Mick and Keith) and he knows how the songs are and what they sound like right now. He was there recording with em during all the sessions so that only makes sense.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 03:42 by IanBillen.

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

that's funny. Struggles?.

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IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..

I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..

I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!

__________________________________


Ha!!! Ikr.


I mean Im quite certain he cares in the final product.. while hearing it .. if he must speak up and say something and Im certain he is going to give his best while he is there with em but other than that.... I think we all know Charlie never gives the album .. its progress.. whatever is going on with it a thought in the world lol


If it was brought to his attention that the album was permanently shelved and discontinued Charlie would only regret it being a waste of time .. and not a sad situation. I don't think Charlie ever thinks about the album unless someone mentions it to him. However that is not unlike his thought and feelings toward all the other Stones albums over the last 35 plus years lol.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 09:59 by IanBillen.

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Rip This

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

that's funny. Struggles?.

Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.

Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.

This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.

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Hairball

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IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..

I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!

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keithsman

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Rip This

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

that's funny. Struggles?.

Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.

Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.

This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.

I am an average guitar player at best, and I am absolutely incapable of playing any kind of convincing solo, but even so, I really don't understand why Keith's live solos on SFTD have to sound so absolutely cringeworthy in the past 10 years or so. I can only guess he's trying to do something extremely rhythmically original, but it really doesn't work at all.

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keithsman

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Rip This

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

that's funny. Struggles?.

Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.

Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.

This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.

Have you tried the studio version?

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matxil

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keithsman

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Rip This

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keithsman

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harlem shuffle
Keith is one of the reason for the sometimes boring setlist,He,s not able to play mang of the other songs anymore.When i see them in Stockholm in october,it was very bad playing of Keith,sometimes terrible

As explained before, all the evidence suggests that the songs are picked by Mick and Chuck. Keith does very well when faced with the challenge of playing different or new songs, as does the rest of the musicians in the band.

If Mick struggles with a different or new song that is not familiar to him in the set list it usually gets dropped by the next show.

I admit Keith struggles with SFTD and IORR but do they get dropped from the set ?? is SFTD or IORR a new song or new challenge to be played live ?? No Keith is probably bored with both songs and it shows.

that's funny. Struggles?.

Struggle meaning, Oxford dictionary.

Strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

ie Keith's fingers, but i don't think that's the only reason he plays so poorly on SFTD and IORR, its the overwhelming keyboard dominance that might bore Keith into submission on Sympathy, these tired old Warhorses are played terribly in recent years and its not just Keith's guitar parts ruining them, IORR is hardly recognisable with the slow tempo, same with Brown Sugar.

This is why the new album would have been great had it been finished, it would be nice to see the band play a few new songs that they don't struggle with, songs that have tempos and guitar parts that have been recently created to suit the band, within Mick's vocal range, at a pace Keith and Charlie can reproduce live.

I am an average guitar player at best, and I am absolutely incapable of playing any kind of convincing solo, but even so, I really don't understand why Keith's live solos on SFTD have to sound so absolutely cringeworthy in the past 10 years or so. I can only guess he's trying to do something extremely rhythmically original, but it really doesn't work at all.

Yes i agree, he can obviously do a better job of it and get a bit closer to the original if he wanted too, he seems to treat SFTD like a meet and greet. I get the feeling it's like some weird protest from Keith lol. Its a song he probably doesn't want to play anymore so he has a little stab at it, doing the bare minimum and a meet and greet, same with Miss You, meet and greet and a rest. I can't blame him after playing them for so many years. Like when he obviously didn't want to start with SMU at Hyde Park, the second Hyde Park SMU intro was a deliberate mistake imho.

I get frustrated when i look back, SFTD was a real crowd pleaser for Keith in 89' 90' it was his best live solo ever during this period and it would last for 5 or 6 minutes. He knows he is a shadow of himself with this solo, i'm surprised Mick hasn't showed more mercy to Keith and dropped it from the set. Very strange, Mick knows Keith struggles with it, it written all over Mick's face. But there you have it, that's entertainment. Some sort of mind games going on between Mick and Keith with that one

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keithsman

Yes i agree, he can obviously do a better job of it and get a bit closer to the original if he wanted too, he seems to treat SFTD like a meet and greet. I get the feeling it's like some weird protest from Keith lol. Its a song he probably doesn't want to play anymore so he has a little stab at it, doing the bare minimum and a meet and greet, same with Miss You, meet and greet and a rest. I can't blame him after playing them for so many years. Like when he obviously didn't want to start with SMU at Hyde Park, the second Hyde Park SMU intro was a deliberate mistake imho.

I get frustrated when i look back, SFTD was a real crowd pleaser for Keith in 89' 90' it was his best live solo ever during this period and it would last for 5 or 6 minutes. He knows he is a shadow of himself with this solo, i'm surprised Mick hasn't showed more mercy to Keith and dropped it from the set. Very strange, Mick knows Keith struggles with it, it written all over Mick's face. But there you have it, that's entertainment. Some sort of mind games going on between Mick and Keith with that one

I honestly can't believe that Keith would do this on purpose. I can believe any silly quarrel between them, but deliberately messing up a song..., no, I don't believe that.
I can't find any explanation really, because even with arthritis or less finger flexibility, playing some kind of decent pentatonic thing in E can't be too difficult. Even just playing 3 notes in some kind of pattern would be better than what he does. It's really rather strange.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 20:28 by keithsman.

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keithsman

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matxil

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keithsman

Yes i agree, he can obviously do a better job of it and get a bit closer to the original if he wanted too, he seems to treat SFTD like a meet and greet. I get the feeling it's like some weird protest from Keith lol. Its a song he probably doesn't want to play anymore so he has a little stab at it, doing the bare minimum and a meet and greet, same with Miss You, meet and greet and a rest. I can't blame him after playing them for so many years. Like when he obviously didn't want to start with SMU at Hyde Park, the second Hyde Park SMU intro was a deliberate mistake imho.

I get frustrated when i look back, SFTD was a real crowd pleaser for Keith in 89' 90' it was his best live solo ever during this period and it would last for 5 or 6 minutes. He knows he is a shadow of himself with this solo, i'm surprised Mick hasn't showed more mercy to Keith and dropped it from the set. Very strange, Mick knows Keith struggles with it, it written all over Mick's face. But there you have it, that's entertainment. Some sort of mind games going on between Mick and Keith with that one

I honestly can't believe that Keith would do this on purpose. I can believe any silly quarrel between them, but deliberately messing up a song..., no, I don't believe that.
I can't find any explanation really, because even with arthritis or less finger flexibility, playing some kind of decent pentatonic thing in E can't be too difficult. Even just playing 3 notes in some kind of pattern would be better than what he does. It's really rather strange.

I would say its more that he doesn't want to play it. Its too good a song for him to completely mess up, he blasts the shit out of it between the solo's. Me likes.

These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 13:31 by keithsman.

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keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Cool links! Cheers.

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matxil

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keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Cool links! Cheers.

Yeah there was i thinking Keith was doing ok last year until i found those two clips. I'ts easy to forget just how good he was, he gave Mick a run for his money in those days. He still has a larger than life stage presence, but jeez he was a force of nature in his prime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 19:57 by keithsman.

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keithsman

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matxil

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keithsman
These were the days. SFTD Also faster than today's live tempo's, including the studio version.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

Cool links! Cheers.

Yeah there was i thinking Keith was doing ok last year until i found those to clips. I'ts easy to forget just how good he was, he gave Mick a run for his money in those days. He still has a larger than life stage presence, but jeez he was a force of nature in his prime.

Bill is pretty good in these links as well.

Watch that stuff after reading about Keith was "on fire" at the end of last year's tour.

Well there is on fire at 74 years old and then there's Keith on fire in his prime.

Even Mick can no longer deliver a performance like he did 28 years ago, its impossible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 19:56 by keithsman.

Keith had problems all over the place during the whole tour (2017), with bad days and worse days. We had lots of speculations as to what might be the reason, all of which - of course - led nowhere. My impression was, especially during the first half of the tour, that it was often the blues numbers that got a more coherent rendition. Maybe he tried harder there because they were not the usual stuff? To be able to ignore the problems, some folks even came up with explanations such as 'We just don't understand his playing because it's from another galaxy'. What I found frightening were those moments (as e.g. in Spielberg, I think it was) when he just stood there, seemingly puzzled, watching his axe and hands, like wondering, 'OK, so here's a guitar, here's a hand, here's another hand, and those things down there, aren't they strings? So what am I gonna do now?'.

Let's see what his playing will be like in the upcoming tour. In 2 1/2 months we will know more. I would also find it unfair to expect from him the chops he had in 1989/90 (apart from the fact that certain coordination problems showed already back then), but one could still hope for proper performances even if virtuoso playing (whatever that means in a Stones context) is no longer on the agenda.

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doitywoik
Keith had problems all over the place during the whole tour (2017), with bad days and worse days. We had lots of speculations as to what might be the reason, all of which - of course - led nowhere. My impression was, especially during the first half of the tour, that it was often the blues numbers that got a more coherent rendition. Maybe he tried harder there because they were not the usual stuff? To be able to ignore the problems, some folks even came up with explanations such as 'We just don't understand his playing because it's from another galaxy'. What I found frightening were those moments (as e.g. in Spielberg, I think it was) when he just stood there, seemingly puzzled, watching his axe and hands, like wondering, 'OK, so here's a guitar, here's a hand, here's another hand, and those things down there, aren't they strings? So what am I gonna do now?'.

Let's see what his playing will be like in the upcoming tour. In 2 1/2 months we will know more. I would also find it unfair to expect from him the chops he had in 1989/90 (apart from the fact that certain coordination problems showed already back then), but one could still hope for proper performances even if virtuoso playing (whatever that means in a Stones context) is no longer on the agenda.

Well theirs some truth in your slightly over dramatized tale of events. I got to see them twice towards the end of the last tour and Keith was great, better than i expected for sure after his slow start to the tour. I don't think Keith is capable of being terrible for a whole show but he had some senior moments as did Mick and Charlie on various occasions. The majority of his senior moments seemed to be during SFTD.
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.

Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?

I'm with you when you say its unfair to expect anything like the virtuoso performances of 89' 90' and like you i hope for some improvement with a new sober recharged Keith this time out, it's his last chance to go down in the history books as still being a great guitarist to the very end, delivering proper performances as you so eloquently put it.

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keithsman

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doitywoik
Keith had problems all over the place during the whole tour (2017), with bad days and worse days. We had lots of speculations as to what might be the reason, all of which - of course - led nowhere. My impression was, especially during the first half of the tour, that it was often the blues numbers that got a more coherent rendition. Maybe he tried harder there because they were not the usual stuff? To be able to ignore the problems, some folks even came up with explanations such as 'We just don't understand his playing because it's from another galaxy'. What I found frightening were those moments (as e.g. in Spielberg, I think it was) when he just stood there, seemingly puzzled, watching his axe and hands, like wondering, 'OK, so here's a guitar, here's a hand, here's another hand, and those things down there, aren't they strings? So what am I gonna do now?'.

Let's see what his playing will be like in the upcoming tour. In 2 1/2 months we will know more. I would also find it unfair to expect from him the chops he had in 1989/90 (apart from the fact that certain coordination problems showed already back then), but one could still hope for proper performances even if virtuoso playing (whatever that means in a Stones context) is no longer on the agenda.

Well theirs some truth in your slightly over dramatized tale of events. I got to see them twice towards the end of the last tour and Keith was great, better than i expected for sure after his slow start to the tour. I don't think Keith is capable of being terrible for a whole show but he had some senior moments as did Mick and Charlie on various occasions. The majority of his senior moments seemed to be during SFTD.
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.

Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?

I'm with you when you say its unfair to expect anything like the virtuoso performances of 89' 90' and like you i hope for some improvement with a new sober recharged Keith this time out, it's his last chance to go down in the history books as still being a great guitarist to the very end, delivering proper performances as you so eloquently put it.

And then there's the gnarled arthritic fingers which are a major physical problem that won't go away vs. the occasional mental lapses that seem to negatively impact playing.
Combine the two, and it's a miracle to see even a few moments of the old Keith in this day and age. And for some people, it's enough just to be in his presence no matter what or how well he plays.
Looking foward to the midway point of the upcoming tour after he's shaken off the cobwebs a bit as he seemed to get "better" as the last tour progressed - he even said so himself and wished there would have been more shows. Maybe he's been practicing/playing while the tours been on hiatus, and come the first show it will be as if he hasn't missed a beat and continuing on right where the last few shows left off.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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keithsman
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.

No, I was referring to No Filter 2017, Spielberg and a few other shows but Spielberg struck me the most. Unfortunately I can't recall what song it was, there were a number of youtube clips posted here. I didn't know about the "Mexico incident" but my feelings were pretty much the same.

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keithsman
Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?

I just started to notice that sometimes (occasionally) he was slightly off in riffs or arpeggios in a way that didn't occur earlier, and there were more such moments in the Voodoo launch tour, and yet more in each subsequent tour, up to No Filter, when he was off more than just slightly and, one is tempted to say, to an almost alarming extent. In addition then also the various TV appearances, say, from 1988 onwards, where one felt like his playing is gradually deteriorating.

I didn't want to say too much about the second half of 2017's No Filter tour because I had followed the first half of the tour very closely but couldn't follow the tour in the same detail later on (sometimes life gets between you and the Stones ...)

Personally, I would be OK with a level of playing as in the 14 On Fire tour. Asking for anything beyond that would be unfair.

But to say something positive: technically, Ronnie's playing is not what it used to be in the 70s either but on stage he is continuously growing, it seems, playing clever, thoughtful and engaged. You don't have to do the Paganini to make it good music.

On a sidenote, there are also other victims of arthritis. John McLaughlin, one of the most varied musicians of the last 50+ years and technically in a league beyond most other guitarists on the planet, announced in Oct. 2017 that from 2018 on he wouldn't go on extended tours any longer but only do special events because his arthritis developed in a way that he could no longer be sure to be in proper playing condition on every gig of a tour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-08 02:08 by doitywoik.

doitywoik

No, I was referring to No Filter 2017, Spielberg and a few other shows but Spielberg struck me the most. Unfortunately I can't recall what song it was, there were a number of youtube clips posted here. I didn't know about the "Mexico incident" winking smiley but my feelings were pretty much the same.




Yes i have that feeling too, its amazing that we get to see Keith play at all with those fingers, we gotta take what we can at this stage, and yes Ronnie is a rare breed, he started improving very late in life, saving his best for last.

I still can't agree with you that Keith started deteriorating in his playing in 89' 90', if anything he was technically better in 89' 90' than in 81' 82' especially with his solo's. I started to see cracks appearing very slightly in 93' with the Wino's, and then more again in 94' 95' Probably due to the arthritis creeping in. Come to think of it Keith deteriorated a lot between playing in 93' with the Wino's to 94' with the Stones. Perhaps the drugs or whatever stopped working so well, or maybe it was a combination of arthritis, drink, who knows, but he was certainly back and on fire again in 98' with the No Security tour.


This is the Mexico gig i mentioned where Keith has a brain freeze

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-08 03:30 by keithsman.

Interesting analysis of Keith's fingers by rheumatologist Dr. Ronan Kavanagh written around the time LIFE came out.
(Interesting comments also below article)

FINGERS



Along with gnarled fingers, Keith's face appears really old in this pic when compared to today.
There was talk of him having some sort of work on his face last year- botox or whatever, but I think his healthier look is due to healthier living.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

This has nothing to do with the phantom studio album that might come out in December 2018, but...my two cents is Ronnie's best work was before the Stones. He has really turned around in recent years, but he can still be variable in concert. I put his musical recovery down to his chemical recovery along with the fact that more was needed of him to support Keith. For about a dozen years now, Ronnie has been relied upon to start less familiar numbers in concert. That was something that was unheard of previously. They need to use Keith wisely so he can finish a show since his heavy lifting builds in the second half each night. He has to be able to give his all on numbers like JJF or audiences would feel cheated.

For me, Keith's arthritis didn't seem to be an issue during the Winos tours. Keith relied on Waddy because he's not always 100% comfortable singing and playing at the same time (even more since his head surgery). He and Ronnie played much less on VOODOO LOUNGE than on STEEL WHEELS / URBAN JUNGLE. That was either laziness on their part or down to Mick wanting musicians he could rely upon for consistency (namely Chuck and the New West Horns). It was a problem that continued for well over a decade until the end of the Michael Cohl era.
There are plenty of standout moments, but there are less that rely upon the guitar players, sadly. Even worse are songs like "Miss You" where the keyboards are used to cover for the lack of guitars. That started on STEEL WHEELS with Mick's lack of confidence in his own guitar playing on "Sad, Sad, Sad" and then grew worse with succeeding tours.

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Rocky Dijon
but...my two cents is Ronnie's best work was before the Stones. He has really turned around in recent years, but he can still be variable in concert.

For a long time, his role in the Stones was just that of a permanent sideman (apart from perhaps group therapist and drinking buddy), which was possibly good for the bank account but not so much for the spirit. His role in the (live) Stones certainly grew from 2012 on, before that I'm not so sure.
I'm with you that his best solo work was before the Stones, Gimme Some Neck is still a favourite of mine (and I'm still waiting for a good-sounding CD, i.e. as good as my old LP). I never warmed too much to the Faces (maybe I should give their albums a fresh listen), so I don't want to comment on them here.
As I have suggested in other threads already, I think it wouldn't hurt to involve him more in the studio work, and be it just for adding that little extra that would make things sound different from just another Mick-and-Keith album.

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Rocky Dijon
For me, Keith's arthritis didn't seem to be an issue during the Winos tours.

I'm sure Kwith is quite experienced in choosing appropriate methods for easing the pain ...

As we speak of that, were there actually any reports on potential bottles or other stuff of Keith'S having been found in his dressing room after the concerts in 2017? In 2014 it was a minor headline in one of the local papers in Vienna that later on two empty bottles of rum where found in his dressing room (and consequently offered on ebay...). Represented in a timeline, this would give us: (mother's milk -> ...) Jack Daniels -> vodka -> rum.