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Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: FreejackPL ()
Date: September 28, 2016 23:52

Quote
tioms
I'm speaking of DECCA MONO LP'S.
You can't have the original Mono Decca's LP's for less than $300.
OR...... You have bought them when they came out.
What's the price for a ROLLING STONES: first LP with: Short... ""Tell Me""?
What's the price for LP MONO LK 4786"" AFTERMATH with shadow cover?
Greets,

Also Let it Bleed is very expensive...

Unboxing by Michael Fremer:
[www.analogplanet.com]

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: tioms ()
Date: September 29, 2016 01:45

Yes FreejackPL,
Also Let it Bleed is very expensive...

I also do know that. But I refused to write that in the meaning that some are laughing with that.
A few years ago I bought a pristine red label open DECCA mono LK 5025 with included poster and booklet for a lot more than $300 by biddings.(e-bay)
Booklet was original not included.
Greets,

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: thkbeercan ()
Date: September 29, 2016 18:00

Quote
DrPete
Different Jagger vocals on SFM and 19th? Fantastic!

The different vocal take on the SFM single is well known and has been previously available. But a different vocal take on 19th Nervous Breakdown? Did I read that correctly?

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 29, 2016 18:08

Quote
thkbeercan
Quote
DrPete
Different Jagger vocals on SFM and 19th? Fantastic!

The different vocal take on the SFM single is well known and has been previously available. But a different vocal take on 19th Nervous Breakdown? Did I read that correctly?
lukpac made analysis for the box on other forum. 19th Nervous Breakdown is not with different vocal part but is mastered differently. They mess the things quite a bit.
[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

__________
On page 7 there's a reel (BOX RS-05 tape 7) that appears to be everything recorded at RCA in December 1965, i.e., Could You Walk On The Water. I suspect those are early/rough mixes, but I'm not certain. It's possible that 19th Nervous Breakdown comes from there, but the issue with the hiss from the vocal track is really perplexing. I question whether that's a mix from 1965/6. Nothing else is jumping out at me, but that doesn't mean it's simply not on the list.

Also note on page 21 there's a "SINGLE MASTER" for Under Assistant.


_____________
[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: lukpac ()
Date: September 30, 2016 08:03

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
thkbeercan
Quote
DrPete
Different Jagger vocals on SFM and 19th? Fantastic!

The different vocal take on the SFM single is well known and has been previously available. But a different vocal take on 19th Nervous Breakdown? Did I read that correctly?
lukpac made analysis for the box on other forum. 19th Nervous Breakdown is not with different vocal part but is mastered differently. They mess the things quite a bit.
[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

__________
On page 7 there's a reel (BOX RS-05 tape 7) that appears to be everything recorded at RCA in December 1965, i.e., Could You Walk On The Water. I suspect those are early/rough mixes, but I'm not certain. It's possible that 19th Nervous Breakdown comes from there, but the issue with the hiss from the vocal track is really perplexing. I question whether that's a mix from 1965/6. Nothing else is jumping out at me, but that doesn't mean it's simply not on the list.

Also note on page 21 there's a "SINGLE MASTER" for Under Assistant.


_____________
[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

19th Nervous Breakdown is a different, apparently unreleased mix (there's more than just a mastering difference), but the performance is the same as the regular mix. A casual listener probably wouldn't notice the difference.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: September 30, 2016 21:45



On [www.Qobuz.com] 184 out of the 186 Tracks are available individually for single purchase (except 'Going Home') - but only in lossless 16bit/44.1kHz CD-Quality, unfortunately not in HD.

Qobuz is available in France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, BeNeLux, Spain, UK, Ireland.

The same 184 Tracks are also available individually for single purchase on [iTunes.apple.com] in lossy AAC format.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 30, 2016 23:26

Quote
Irix

Qobuz is available in France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, BeNeLux, Spain, UK, Ireland.
But not in our woods. BTW, I visited 3 FNAC shops in Lisbon. Not a single copy on the shelves was found. But they already have retail price of 155 Euros for 15CD box.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Whale ()
Date: September 30, 2016 23:38

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
Irix

Qobuz is available in France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, BeNeLux, Spain, UK, Ireland.
But not in our woods. BTW, I visited 3 FNAC shops in Lisbon. Not a single copy on the shelves was found. But they already have retail price of 155 Euros for 15CD box.
Over here in Amsterdam the local record store also did not get the vinyl box delivered...
Very unhappy. I really wanted to hear this and now it is delayed.
Did everybody else have their vinyl box delivered?

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: MrEcho ()
Date: October 1, 2016 00:15

One of the independent records stores in my region here in Germany had both the CD and vinyl box for sale today. I also checked one of the bigger stores and they did not yet have them.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Whale ()
Date: October 1, 2016 00:45

Quote
MrEcho
One of the independent records stores in my region here in Germany had both the CD and vinyl box for sale today. I also checked one of the bigger stores and they did not yet have them.
As an early conclusion I'd venture to say that demand > supply for the vinyl box. Or at least in Europe

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: mjmjr ()
Date: October 1, 2016 01:42

available in 24/96 at hdtracks

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: October 1, 2016 04:56

Qobuz has the complete box available for streaming.

I can't compare with the original mono releases but these new mono remasters have an excellent sound. The first albums shine again.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: MrEcho ()
Date: October 1, 2016 14:07

OK, so I have the CD box (EU version) and here are my impressions.

Packaging:

The box itself is made of strong cardboard, there is a magnet inside that keeps the box shut when you close the lid. Very nice. Inside there is the booklet and the 15 CDs. The open sides of the CD covers do not face the lower end of the box (as has been described by US buyers of the box) but the right side. Furthermore each album has a protective plastic sleeve that you can remove (similar to the LPs in the Analog Planet unboxing video).

The individual CD sleeves are made of heavy cardboard with paste-on covers printed on glossy paper. "Majesties", "Banquet" and "Stray Cats" have gatefold sleeves. The backs of the covers are reproductions of the originals (which means the type is tiny) with new small copyright text. "No. 2" has the "blind man" text. There are no DECCA and no London logos on the sleeves.

The design on the front of most UK albums is heavily cropped, which means large parts of the photos are missing. For example half of Keith's and Charlie's heads on "Aftermath". Only "Buttons" and "Bleed" are correct. "Majesties" has the non 3-D photo, the blue-white border is heavily cropped. The picture quality of the first UK album and "12 x 5" is very poor (too dark and much too red). The design on the front of the US albums seems to be OK, but "December's Children" is also cropped too tightly.

They used the "toilet" cover for "Banquet", which for a reproduction of the original mono album is historically incorrect since the original mono LP had the white "invitation" design (which in this set was adapted for the "Stray Cats" compilation).

The CDs have plastic inner sleeves, which is very nice. The CDs have DECCA and London logos. "Stray Cats" has the ABKCO logo.

Sound:

I have EX/NM copies of the DECCA mono LPs so I compared those to the sound on the new CDs and I think they did a great job in recreating the mono sound of the original pressings. I do not want to go into all the details (please take a look at lukpac's excellent research for that), my impression is based on listening to the overall sound. And they got the overall sound right. When I listen to the new CDs they provide the same general listening experience as the original mono LPs. If you want the sound that the fans heard in the 1960s, the sound as originally authorized by the band, get this new "In Mono" box. The sound feels right, it feels like authentic 1960s Rolling Stones mono sound.

If you do not like mono sound then this set is not for you, but every fan of the band should consider the following general points about mono vs stereo sound in the 1960s. This text was adpated from a text about Bob Dylan's 1960s mono LPs (original source no longer online www.rdf.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk), but also applies to the Rolling Stones' catalogue.

Stereo was not a new technology in the 1960s, but for popular music, mono was still the standard format. Singles were always mono, and stereo LPs only accounted for about 5% of sales (in the USA). Radio airplay would always be from the mono version.

So most artists and producers would devote their attention to getting the mono version of their albums right, and would give very little thought to the stereo edition. The stereo version would generally be produced by a different mixing engineer, often with little or no supervision, more or less as a sideline for a small minority market. The artist might not even hear it before it was released.

Because the stereo mixing process was less carefully supervised, stereo versions of album tracks were often edited quite differently from their mono counterparts, with different length endings and different instruments given prominence. And if any overdubbing or splicing was done to get the mono mix to the artist's satisfaction, frequently this would be forgotten or carried out differently on the stereo version.

Furthermore stereo disc-cutting heads of the time were prone to distortion when fed with high amplitude bass signals, and in any case most early stereo pickup cartridges could not track heavy bass signals without jumping. So when it came to cutting the stereo album, the bass levels had to be limited. As a result the stereo editions of 1960s albums usually sounded much "thinner" than the mono versions. In addition stereo was still to some extent treated as a novelty and the wide separation of the instruments and vocals was seen as the primary objective: The individual elements were placed left, centre or right, with lots of dead space in between. The careful balance of the instruments and the attack and impact of the mono mixes was lost.


For the band's 1960s catalogue the mono versions sound much heavier and punchier, the way an in-your-face rock band like the Rolling Stones should sound. When I grew up, the mono versions were no longer in print, so the stereo versions were the regular versions. But when I discovered the mono versions and the story behind their production, I stopped listening to the stereo versions, which to me sound all wrong. "Majesties" for example sounds like a psychedelic novelty piece in stereo, whereas in mono it is a tight, ballsy rock album. "Citadel" in mono is one of the greatest recordings of that line-up of the band.

Stereo became the industry standard in 1968 (in the US) and 1969 (in the UK), so for "Banquet" and "Bleed" the stereo versions have to be regarded as the main, authorized versions. But since mono had not been completely phased out in 1968/69 both albums were released in (fold-down) mono versions in the band's home market, so the inclusion of those versions in this new box is of historic interest.

Summing up:

The mix of UK and US albums in this set is not ideal. I grew up with the UK albums, I find the US versions irritating and never listen to them. For fans in the US it is often the other way around.

ABKCO should have done two boxes like the Beatles – one box for the UK albums (+ compilation of non-abum tracks) and one box for the US albums (+ compilation of non album tracks).

The "Got Live If You Want It" EP and LP should have been included in this set, because they are part of the band's 1960s catalogue.

The design of some of the front covers is a bit sloppy.

The sound is great.

All in all this is a great release, very important historically, highly recommended.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-01 16:51 by MrEcho.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: October 1, 2016 14:39

Thank you Mr. Echo. My CD box arrived yesterday. I plan on listening in reverse order, saving Stray Cats for last.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: JumpinJimF ()
Date: October 1, 2016 15:08

Quote
MrEcho


Summing up:

The mix of UK and US albums in this set is not ideal. I grew up with the UK albums, I find the US versions irritating and never listen to them. For fans in the US it is often the other way around.

ABKCO should have done two boxes like the Beatles – one box for the UK albums (+ compilation of non-abum tracks) and one box for the US albums (+ compilation of non album tracks).

The "Got Live If You Want It" EP and LP should have been included in this set, because they are part of the band's 1960s catalogue.

The design of some of the front covers is pretty sloppy.

The sound is great.

All in all this is a great release, very important historically, highly recommended.

Thanks for this review, very informative.

The set is now up on Spotify (not perfect I know but not too bad at the highest quality settings through a good amp and speakers) and I am now blasting Citadel. Great track as you say.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: mickboy ()
Date: October 1, 2016 18:12

And for you guys in the USA that ordered your box from Amazon.UK keep an eye out on your charges. In my order page it showed my charge for the box as £83 but I just got an email from Amazon this morning saying I saved £44 on my box but then it said my total charge is £97! 14 pounds higher than what was in my order page. So just be diligent with what they're charging you.
Never pay retail!
Mickboy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-01 19:17 by mickboy.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: rovalle ()
Date: October 1, 2016 18:21

Well I ordered mine here in the US from Amazon yesterday...came to $203 tax included...It also came with a free MP3 download which I immediately started to download and when done dropped it into my iTunes folder so I could play in my car...it came as one folder titled "The Rolling Stones in Mono" and when you opened the folder it only listed Disc 1, Disc 2 etc up to Disc 15...dropping into my iTunes it also did it as one folder but it also added them individually so I got Rolling Stones No 2, Rolling Stones Now etc...there was no Stray Cats apart but what there was showing for those tracks was "Stone Age" and "Through The Past Darkly"...Ok weird...

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: midimannz ()
Date: October 1, 2016 23:12

Is there any significant difference between this 2016 version and the releases in 2011?

The Rolling Stones – The Rolling Stones (1964/2011) [U.K. Version]
FLAC (tracks) 24 bit/88,2 kHz / 24 bit/176,4 kHz | Time – 33:06 minutes | 655 M / 1,01 GB | Genre: Rock
Official Digital Download – Source: HDTracks.com | Front/back cover | @ ABKCO Records

The UK version of The Rolling Stones’ first album, recorded in mono and available in high resolution digital for the first time ever.

ABKCO Music and Records Inc. and HDTracks® are announcing the first-ever release of high definition digital downloads of The Rolling Stones ground-breaking catalog of studio, compilation and live albums in High-Fidelity FLAC formats offered in both 176.4kHz/24-bit and 88.2kHz/24-bit.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Lien ()
Date: October 1, 2016 23:48

Tune in today at 12pm ET for a 4 hour special on The Rolling Stones in Mono, "Swinging in The Sixties” on Sirius/XM - Channel 21 Little Steven’s Underground Garage. Repeat Broadcast on Sunday Oct. 2 AT 4pm ET.

[www.chriscartersbritishinvasion.com]

The Rolling Stones – Swinging In The Sixties!
To celebrate the new Rolling Stones Box set we’ll feature four straight hours of Stones music from the years 1963 to 1969; Including singles, album tracks and rarities…and all in mono!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: October 2, 2016 09:22

So I've been listening the past days to the mono box on Qobuz streaming service (excellent stream quality), and I must say this is a great release.
For me the overall sound of these mono mixes is excellent. Full of details but not too loud or too harsh and not fatiguing at all (as it as often the case with nowadays reissues).
Also, for the most part, the very first albums were already available in mono (at least in digital download form), but I find these new reissues possibly sounding better.

From my point of view (and personal taste), I find the first albums (ie before Aftermath) new mono releases essentials (except maybe 12 x 5, which is sounding great in stereo), but not so much for the albums from Aftermath on.
I find the albums Aftermath, Between The Buttons, Satanic Majesties, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed sounding so much better in stereo. Or maybe it's just me as I'm used to listen to these albums in stereo anyway.
So while I think it's great (and fun) to have all the 60's albums in mono from a historical point of view, for my everyday Stones music fix I think I'll stick to the stereo versions for the 1966-1969 output. smiling smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: October 2, 2016 14:19

Quote
Maindefender
Thank you Mr. Echo. My CD box arrived yesterday. I plan on listening in reverse order, saving Stray Cats for last.

Strange the US packaging is different from the EU. Casually listened to 4 cuts of LIB, didn't have time to study. I will say Love In Vain is incredible!!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 2, 2016 14:21

OKAY!!! ... ya said it ...... Now stands up and say it ..... properly



ROCKMAN

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: toomuchforme ()
Date: October 2, 2016 16:21

135 $ but high resolution 96/24

[www.prostudiomasters.com]

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Ragnbert ()
Date: October 2, 2016 17:36

I still wonder about all the fuss with Stones in mono? That's the way they always been heard up until 1966 when the first stereo album was released. I hope for, but guess it will never happen, a stereo box. If the session tapes are still in good condition it may happen. The bad stereo mixes ( if they are) can be made the way stereo mixes a made today. At least all recordings from Chess and RCA should be possible to mix in stereo.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: MrEcho ()
Date: October 2, 2016 18:02

Quote
Ragnbert
I still wonder about all the fuss with Stones in mono? That's the way they always been heard up until 1966 when the first stereo album was released. I hope for, but guess it will never happen, a stereo box. If the session tapes are still in good condition it may happen. The bad stereo mixes ( if they are) can be made the way stereo mixes a made today. At least all recordings from Chess and RCA should be possible to mix in stereo.

I agree that better stereo mixes could be made of the existing 1960s multitrack tapes. But will ABKCO ever do it?

Dylan's people made modern, more natural and more powerful stereo mixes of his entire 1965/66 material, including all master takes from "Bringing It All Back Home", "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Blonde On Blonde" (released on "The Cutting Edge – Collector's Edition - 18 CDs" in 2015). So it can be done.

But given the choice between bad stereo mixes and great mono mixes, I will always prefer the mono mixes. For "Banquet" and especially "Let It Bleed", both stereo and mono (fold-down) mixes are very good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-02 18:06 by MrEcho.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: October 3, 2016 02:08

Quote
MrEcho
Quote
Ragnbert
I still wonder about all the fuss with Stones in mono? That's the way they always been heard up until 1966 when the first stereo album was released. I hope for, but guess it will never happen, a stereo box. If the session tapes are still in good condition it may happen. The bad stereo mixes ( if they are) can be made the way stereo mixes a made today. At least all recordings from Chess and RCA should be possible to mix in stereo.

I agree that better stereo mixes could be made of the existing 1960s multitrack tapes. But will ABKCO ever do it?

Dylan's people made modern, more natural and more powerful stereo mixes of his entire 1965/66 material, including all master takes from "Bringing It All Back Home", "Highway 61 Revisited" and "Blonde On Blonde" (released on "The Cutting Edge – Collector's Edition - 18 CDs" in 2015). So it can be done.

But given the choice between bad stereo mixes and great mono mixes, I will always prefer the mono mixes. For "Banquet" and especially "Let It Bleed", both stereo and mono (fold-down) mixes are very good.

"Banquet" is very very good...smiling bouncing smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: October 3, 2016 02:33

Very cool to hear. I have read a few things about the fold down for both BB and LIB and folks saying they sound better than the stereo vinyl. Anyone out there, mine won't be delivered until mid October. I guess that is the price of waiting you get from getting a great locked in price from Amazon Canada. How are the pressings of the vinyl?

Thanks all!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: October 3, 2016 03:36

On HDTRACKS it's available at 192/24 for 20$ more than 96/24. Is the difference noticeable enough to be worth the money?

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: October 3, 2016 13:01

Quote
DrPete
On HDTRACKS it's available at 192/24 for 20$ more than 96/24. Is the difference noticeable enough to be worth the money?

If you have the right gear to correctly read 192kHz files, they should sound better than 96kHz. But the difference can appear to be quite subtle to some ears...

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Date: October 3, 2016 14:14

Quote
Ragnbert
I still wonder about all the fuss with Stones in mono? That's the way they always been heard up until 1966 when the first stereo album was released. I hope for, but guess it will never happen, a stereo box. If the session tapes are still in good condition it may happen. The bad stereo mixes ( if they are) can be made the way stereo mixes a made today. At least all recordings from Chess and RCA should be possible to mix in stereo.

The songs from Chess were recorded in stereo.

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