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Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: nick ()
Date: September 7, 2016 05:55

Con Le Mie Lacrime is making it's first CD appearance and it will take a box set to get it. Stray Cats??? I guess the contract said no new compilations unless they get a piece?

The 2002 SACD / CD releases were put out as they were originally recorded not as they were originally released and all that reprocessed stereo, fade ins and outs removed. Use that as a guide in consideration of this collection.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: lukpac ()
Date: September 8, 2016 04:57

Quote
nick
The 2002 SACD / CD releases were put out as they were originally recorded not as they were originally released and all that reprocessed stereo, fade ins and outs removed. Use that as a guide in consideration of this collection.

Not sure what you mean by fade ins and outs (like some of the later London CDs?), but while the fake stereo is gone, there was plenty of tinkering going on. Narrowed stereo, noise reduction, incorrect mixes, etc.

At least they can't narrow mono.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: nick ()
Date: September 8, 2016 07:12

Yes I do mean the London CD's fades. I understand that there was tinkering, etc. I have a "narrow" view of their catalog. I have read your FAQ and have referred to it in pursuing all the complete versions of their songs, preferably in stereo for my own collection. In seeing what I just wrote it does appear my opinion not go well with this MONO collection discussion. Your FAQ however is a better choice in guidance.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Blueranger ()
Date: September 8, 2016 08:13

I think people should stop right away with complaining. We haven't heard a note of this mastering yet!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: September 8, 2016 19:27

Quote
lukpac
Quote
frenki09
Soooooo true! Aftermath is almost unlistenable in stereo. It's that dead space...

"stereo mixes were pretty crude: everything was left, centre or right, with lots of dead space in between"

It's a big relief to FINALLY have the mono releases out. I thought Brenda would never bother saying 'yes' to the mono versions being released...

Depends on the song.

Mother's Little Helper is definitely a bit overly discrete in stereo. But Under My Thumb arguably sounds great in stereo.

I know what you mean... I can live with the stereo version of Under My Thumb. Still... to me the whole album sounds like it has too much decoration and not enough dirt, which I blame on the super wide stereo sound. It's kinda hard for me to describe how I feel using technical terms.

No wonder the isolated trax are available for this album. It all sounds like a bubble gum album with strawberry taste. It's a shame, because the songs are really strong.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: September 8, 2016 19:41

Quote
MrEcho
Mono and Stereo: Some General Points

[this is from an article published on www.rdf.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk some time ago about Bob Dylan's 1960s mono discs, but the basic facts also apply to The Rolling Stones' 1960s catalogue]

Stereo was not a new technology [in the 1960s], but its impact at that time was still very much in the classical and audiophile market. For popular music, mono was still very much the standard format. Singles were always mono, and stereo LPs only accounted for about 5% of sales even in the USA. Radio airplay - all AM - would always be from the mono version.

(...)

I found this article (not just this quote) really interesting and very detailed. It's on page 6 if you are interested in reading it.

However, I have been wondering that if stereo LP's only accounted for about 5% of sales, why it is more difficult to find MONO versions of LP's from the 60's.

If I understand correctly people pay nice money for MONO LP's while the stereo release of the same album is widely available for a few bucks on sites like eBay.

A Satanic MONO LP is still a thought after item...

So why is it that MONO LP's seem to be more difficult to find than stereo LP's. I don't mean the Stones only; any MONO releases from the 60's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-08 19:45 by frenki09.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: MrEcho ()
Date: September 8, 2016 19:55

Quote
frenki09
Quote
MrEcho
Mono and Stereo: Some General Points

[this is from an article published on www.rdf.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk some time ago about Bob Dylan's 1960s mono discs, but the basic facts also apply to The Rolling Stones' 1960s catalogue]

Stereo was not a new technology [in the 1960s], but its impact at that time was still very much in the classical and audiophile market. For popular music, mono was still very much the standard format. Singles were always mono, and stereo LPs only accounted for about 5% of sales even in the USA. Radio airplay - all AM - would always be from the mono version.

(...)

I found this article (not just this quote) really interesting and very detailed. It's on page 6 if you are interested in reading it.

However, I have been wondering that if stereo LP's only accounted for about 5% of sales, why it is more difficult to find MONO versions of LP's from the 60's.

If I understand correctly people pay nice money for MONO LP's while the stereo release of the same album is widely available for a few bucks on sites like eBay.

A Satanic MONO LP is still a thought after item...

So why is it that MONO LP's seem to be more difficult to find than stereo LP's. I don't mean the Stones only; any MONO releases from the 60's.

Mono LPs are so rare, because once Stereo had become the new standard (in the US in 1968, in the UK in 1969) they were usually not re-pressed. Stereo LPs on the other hand continued to be re-pressed again and again.

5% of sales for Stereo was the situation in the 1960s, after 1968/69 Stereo sales increased, while Mono sales slumped dramatically.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-08 19:59 by MrEcho.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 10, 2016 13:28

Preview in Billboard
[www.billboard.com]

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: pledge1970 ()
Date: September 10, 2016 19:01

Took the plunge !!!

Went for the additional 9 x 7" edition

[store.udiscovermusic.com]

This will be special

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: September 10, 2016 19:40

I bit the bullet and got vinyl with the singles too. Am now even more excited about it, especially which the download card in HD

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: September 10, 2016 20:31

Holy cow! £345.00!!!! confused smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: September 11, 2016 01:34

Quote
ironbelly
Preview in Billboard
[www.billboard.com]

Thank you Ironbelly. thumbs upthumbs up

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: tk421 ()
Date: September 11, 2016 16:31

Quote
DrPete
I bit the bullet and got vinyl with the singles too. Am now even more excited about it, especially which the download card in HD
where did you see that the download card was for hd files? I assumed mp3s but would love flacs or HD

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: DrPete ()
Date: September 11, 2016 17:00

It says a download card included. I would be shocked and very irritated if just mp3. Led Zeppelin box sets had HD cards so I assume the Stones would too

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: September 11, 2016 18:01

Man I scored doing the preorder from Amazon Canada (I live in Michigan)! Got it for 430 Canadian, which gave me better pressings from Germany and saved me 40 dollars. Now it is going for over 600 Canadian! That pre-order price lock is pretty cool on Amazon.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: September 12, 2016 09:48

I haven't been so excited about a Stones re-release since I don't know when...

The Exile, SF reissues had those reworked songs which totally killed it for me. Wasn't interested in them, and still think there was no reason to pretend that such a track belongs on an album from 1971 or 72. And then all those expensive Super Deluxe editions, which had nothing "valuable" in 'em... Don't even wanna go into that. The new Stripped is a great set, but this is the real deal!

But gonna have to wait till prices drop down a bit after a few months or a year perhaps. It's already a great feeling to know that this out there and available.

Mono rocks!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: tioms ()
Date: September 12, 2016 10:14

Hi frenki09,
But gonna have to wait till prices drop down a bit after a few months or a year perhaps. It's already a great feeling to know that this out there and available.

IMO. You are thinking wrong.
The 2 boxes before are now:
on E bay:
LP Box 1964-1969.......between £350 & £550
LP Box-1971-2005.......rare to find one.
That's my opinion.
Remember: No secound edition.
Greets,

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frenki09 ()
Date: September 12, 2016 19:23

Quote
tioms

IMO. You are thinking wrong.
The 2 boxes before are now:
on E bay:
LP Box 1964-1969.......between £350 & £550
LP Box-1971-2005.......rare to find one.
That's my opinion.
Remember: No secound edition.
Greets,

Hi,

Yeah. I know I am taking a risk with waiting, but I got no other option at the moment. I simply can't afford spending this much money.

Btw, I will go for the CD edition, not the LP's, so I am hoping to catch that one for a more reasonable price. It's definitely something I want to own, unlike some of the recent reissues.

I am a die-hard fan, but my budget is rather limited, so I have to think twice before spending this much money for a set of CD's...

The Beatles MONO set that came a white box is still widely available, and for a way more reasonable price tag than at the time of its release.

I will see how this goes...

Fingers crossed.

Frankie

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: September 13, 2016 18:37

Sorry if it was posted before:

The Rolling Stones In Mono Unboxing




Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: September 13, 2016 20:49

Looks stunning! Can't wait!

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: September 13, 2016 21:52

So no lenticular cover for TSMR? Hope there's red Decca labels.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: tioms ()
Date: September 14, 2016 10:07

Hi,
1) TSMR MONO LP issued in UK is not in RED LABEL
It's Light Blue label.
2) BIG HITS HIGH TIDE GREEN GRASS LP MONO in UK is not in RED LABEL
It's Light Blue label.
Greets,
Edit post:
TSMR MONO TXL.103
TSMR STEREO TXS 103 GREEN LABEL instead of dark blue

BIG HITS MONO TXL.101
BIG HITS STEREO TXS. 101 GREEN LABEL instead of dark blue



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-14 10:45 by tioms.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 14, 2016 12:32

Can we already start moaning about packaging, mastering, wrong versions of the songs etc.?

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: JumpinJimF ()
Date: September 14, 2016 12:47

Quote
ironbelly
Can we already start moaning about packaging, mastering, wrong versions of the songs etc.?

Certainly. It is essential to start the moaning before anyone is in possession of any actual facts. It is a much higher class of moaning than the banal moaning that happens once people actually have the product. winking smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 14, 2016 13:21

Quote
JumpinJimF
Quote
ironbelly
Can we already start moaning about packaging, mastering, wrong versions of the songs etc.?

Certainly. It is essential to start the moaning before anyone is in possession of any actual facts. It is a much higher class of moaning than the banal moaning that happens once people actually have the product. winking smiley

Technically, we have a couple of facts from that preview in Billboard. And some of those facts are slightly alarming.
1. Once the tapes are in hand, Landi continues, “You start with a really great machine, like this Ampex ATR-102, which was made in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s,” - this means they run playback on relatively new machines.
2. “When we embarked upon restoring the Stones’ catalog, we did a test between an Ampex with electronics from a solid state machine like this -- this particular one has upgraded electronics -- and an older Ampex with tube electronics." - thus, some tapes were transferred using solid state electronics, while the others - on tube electronics. This makes one think the CDs could sound 'patchy'.
3. “And sometimes the old tube machine actually sounds better,” Klein adds. “It reproduces the sound of the tape more authentically, rather than putting it on a machine that sounds too precise or too clinical." - ouch! Knowing the way they did 2002 remaster I feel most of the new remaster could be too precise or too clinical.
4. The tapes are transferred to high-resolution DSD and PCM digital formats, and sent to “super-genius mastering engineer” Bob Ludwig at his Gateway Mastering studio, where he masters the catalog from the DSD digital source files. - do you think they actually re-done all previously issued mono tracks? Can you imagine for a second that Klein company would pay twice the same guy for the same job?
5. The set isn't perfect: The art in the booklet is rather perfunctory and, in the CD version, the type is tiny; while the album covers are nearly exact reproductions of the originals, that makes them nearly illegible when shrunk down to CD size, and the lack of an inner sleeve means the discs fall out alarmingly easily. - so the artwork for ordinary CD edition is rather cheap. I do not know about Japanese version, that suppose to have better mini-LP replicas.
6. And the last, but not the least - LPs will be pressed from digital sources but not purely analog winking smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Date: September 14, 2016 13:58

<LPs will be pressed from digital sources but not purely analog>

Can they even be partly analogue, when pressed from digital sources? winking smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: September 14, 2016 14:02

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
JumpinJimF
Quote
ironbelly
Can we already start moaning about packaging, mastering, wrong versions of the songs etc.?

Certainly. It is essential to start the moaning before anyone is in possession of any actual facts. It is a much higher class of moaning than the banal moaning that happens once people actually have the product. winking smiley

Technically, we have a couple of facts from that preview in Billboard. And some of those facts are slightly alarming.
1. Once the tapes are in hand, Landi continues, “You start with a really great machine, like this Ampex ATR-102, which was made in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s,” - this means they run playback on relatively new machines.
2. “When we embarked upon restoring the Stones’ catalog, we did a test between an Ampex with electronics from a solid state machine like this -- this particular one has upgraded electronics -- and an older Ampex with tube electronics." - thus, some tapes were transferred using solid state electronics, while the others - on tube electronics. This makes one think the CDs could sound 'patchy'.
3. “And sometimes the old tube machine actually sounds better,” Klein adds. “It reproduces the sound of the tape more authentically, rather than putting it on a machine that sounds too precise or too clinical." - ouch! Knowing the way they did 2002 remaster I feel most of the new remaster could be too precise or too clinical.
4. The tapes are transferred to high-resolution DSD and PCM digital formats, and sent to “super-genius mastering engineer” Bob Ludwig at his Gateway Mastering studio, where he masters the catalog from the DSD digital source files. - do you think they actually re-done all previously issued mono tracks? Can you imagine for a second that Klein company would pay twice the same guy for the same job?
5. The set isn't perfect: The art in the booklet is rather perfunctory and, in the CD version, the type is tiny; while the album covers are nearly exact reproductions of the originals, that makes them nearly illegible when shrunk down to CD size, and the lack of an inner sleeve means the discs fall out alarmingly easily. - so the artwork for ordinary CD edition is rather cheap. I do not know about Japanese version, that suppose to have better mini-LP replicas.
6. And the last, but not the least - LPs will be pressed from digital sources but not purely analog winking smiley


So Ironbelly can it be assumed you haven't ordered this?

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 14, 2016 14:13

Quote
Maindefender

So Ironbelly can it be assumed you haven't ordered this?
Surely I did! The first day it appeared on pre-order.

But moaning is a part of local culture. And you should follow traditions winking smiley

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: September 14, 2016 15:16

Moaning/complaining, has another name as well.. constructive criticism. And perhaps some people aren't able to realize that? Something to consider. Back on subject, after seeing the un-packing video I'm under impressed. First it doesn't appear to be reproduction covers, just the right album picture. Maybe the video is standard and not the actual product? Then there's the question about sound. If it's not direct analog to vinyl then there isn't much point in buying the vinyl. Might as well get the CD box instead. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Re: "The Rolling Stones in Mono" - September 30 2016.
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: September 14, 2016 15:35

The whole thing about using the digital tapes isn't a big deal. I used to get worked up about it but read a lot about the Exile Halfspeed masters and got the vinyl and it sounds amazing. I know they use analog remastering then transfer to digital tapes to then cut the vinyl. No big deal and you are still getting analog from the vinyl. And if they do the same process as the Exile this should sound fantastic!

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