Quote
DandelionPowderman
Mick Taylor wrote JJF.

No you are wrong, he wasn't even in the band in 1968. Wyman came up with the riff though. Keith played that on guitar, probably transcribed it and played it on an open E tuned guitar. Mick wrote the lyrics. I don't know how much of the song was written by Mick and Keith but the guitar riff originates from the riff Bill played on organ.

Maybe Bill played the riff like Keith did on the Rock n roll circus when he played it in standard tuning. It would make sense because it's basically the chords the way you'd play on the keyboard.

Bill wanted to fire Mick.

Out of a cannon!!!!!!! .... Man that woulda been a great opener



ROCKMAN

No that is not true. According to someone, I can't remember who or where I read it but check Rockmans uploads, Mick wanted to fire Bill in 1969. Wasn't it Bill who said that? Someone else?

Rockman wrote Start me up.

Quote
Naturalust
Turner, nice thought but there already is a Wiki out there and it is filled with information (and some misinformation) about the Stones. People write books about the Stones which are not entirely factual, hell Stones write books about the Stones that are not entirely factual.

As a forum I love the debate as much as anyone and usually when someone comes up with the truth by whatever method, it is pretty quickly acknowledged and people are appreciative. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to put bad information out there but when it happens it usually gets called out pretty quick.

In my opinion, no need to change things, we've got enough common sense and Stones knowledge here that things will rarely veer into total fantasy. There is an art to expressing opinions and theories without getting people all stirred up and I most appreciate posters who are versed in it.

where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Rockman wrote Start me up.


Yep original working title was --- Jumper-Lead Blues



ROCKMAN

Quote
Turner68
where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Just the regular Wikipedia. Just about every song, record, studio, tour, associate, etc. has it's own page and some of them are incredibly detailed.

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Turner68
where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Just the regular Wikipedia. Just about every song, record, studio, tour, associate, etc. has it's own page and some of them are incredibly detailed.

i think there are a lot of facts that are contained is this forum that aren't captured there, that is my point. this forum is both a place for discussion as well as for learning facts about the stones. that can cause confusion and disagreement, e.g. the debate that his been raging about one person asserting that bill wyman wrote the JJF riff.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Bill wanted to fire Mick.

Jagger was upset he couldn't fire Keith... according to Mick Taylor.

Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

Quote
Turner68

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Turner68
where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Just the regular Wikipedia. Just about every song, record, studio, tour, associate, etc. has it's own page and some of them are incredibly detailed.

i think there are a lot of facts that are contained is this forum that aren't captured there, that is my point. this forum is both a place for discussion as well as for learning facts about the stones. that can cause confusion and disagreement, e.g. the debate that his been raging about one person asserting that bill wyman wrote the JJF riff.

Bill Wyman started that debate...though not directly in this forum.

Quote
SweetThing

Quote
Turner68

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Turner68
where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Just the regular Wikipedia. Just about every song, record, studio, tour, associate, etc. has it's own page and some of them are incredibly detailed.

i think there are a lot of facts that are contained is this forum that aren't captured there, that is my point. this forum is both a place for discussion as well as for learning facts about the stones. that can cause confusion and disagreement, e.g. the debate that his been raging about one person asserting that bill wyman wrote the JJF riff.

Bill Wyman started that debate...though not directly in this forum.

yes! he was the "one person" i was referring to... because let's be clear, that's all it is.

Quote
SweetThing

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Bill wanted to fire Mick.

Jagger was upset he couldn't fire Keith... according to Mick Taylor.

Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

if keith had been "fired" i think he would have produced something very similar to EOMS.

i think mick would have gone in roughly the direction of elton john.

Quote
Turner68

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Turner68
where is the wiki for the stones? i didn't know about it...

Just the regular Wikipedia. Just about every song, record, studio, tour, associate, etc. has it's own page and some of them are incredibly detailed.

i think there are a lot of facts that are contained is this forum that aren't captured there, that is my point. this forum is both a place for discussion as well as for learning facts about the stones. that can cause confusion and disagreement, e.g. the debate that his been raging about one person asserting that bill wyman wrote the JJF riff.

Look it's not one person. But theres one source and that is the trustworthy Bill Wyman. And he never said he wrote the song, just the riff, on organ. A keyboard riff. It could be he played the Satisfaction riff and changed it. Perhaps. But generally speaking Bill doesn't make up stories. He can have some facts wrong but this surely doesn't sound like anything he'd suddenly forget. The explanation as to why he didn't go public about this until 1982 makes sense. Had I been Bill I'd also wait until I was about to leave or at least plan to. And yes I'd give the CEO:s credits if they let me keep my position in the band.

The riff has nothing to do with his solo songs or his bass playing. There is nothing strange about somebody coming up with a riff or parts of a song or anything used in a song. That happens all the time. Mick and Keith does that too. There are many contributers behind their body of work. This is not unique to them.

The story of the Glimmer Twins is so strong partly because of the real partnership that once was and sometimes reappeared but also of course because it's part of a bigger idea of men as artistic partners. Its very much an image also. The idea of the "married couple" or the "twins" is stronger than the real partnership. Thats why the hopes of a never-ending friendship between the two is so extremely important to many fans. And I guess that's why everything that contradicts this idea is very upsetting. I don't believe for a second that most hardcore fans are comfortable with giving credits to the left and to the right. It wouldn't make sense for a Stones fan.

that's right, bill wyman is the one person who has asserted that.

Any serious Stones wiki would have to include Bill's claim - for being with them 30 years or whatever. It doesn't mean its a fact of course or that Bill is right, but it would be a proper/appropriate footnote. "Bill Wyman claims..." for the interested to ponder and come to their own conclusions (or not).

agreed. and i believe that he believes he did. who knows, maybe he did.

Quote
Turner68

Quote
SweetThing

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Bill wanted to fire Mick.

Jagger was upset he couldn't fire Keith... according to Mick Taylor.

Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

if keith had been "fired" i think he would have produced something very similar to EOMS.

i think mick would have gone in roughly the direction of elton john.

Yeah, I imagine that could well be the way it would've went...

Quote
Turner68
that's right, bill wyman is the one person who has asserted that.

Well Brian is dead and Charlie still on payroll.

Quote
Turner68
agreed. and i believe that he believes he did. who knows, maybe he did.

Yes of course why else remember it, go public in 1982, put it in a book in 1989 (?) and when asked still confirm this? It doesn't sound like imagination. This is not Keith saying Muddy painted the goddamn ceiling.

Jeez, give it a rest! Talk about beating a dead horse, reviving it and beating it again. To be honest I don't think the JJF riff is all that different from earlier riffs. It's just a variation on Satisfaction, which is touched from some other song. Let it go.

Let's agree the man was part of what many of us true fans consider their greatest line up and was to put it nicely, treated very poorly. He certainly deserved better treatment then and the way the treated him and MT for 50th and counting was a disgrace. Mick, who we all know controls everything, is not very nice to his former band mates. Keith is equally mean spirited but to out of it to care. I credit RW for even getting MT back on board in a limited role by playing those gigs with him before the 50th reunion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-04 04:28 by Brstonesfan.

<<Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s>>

That would be Mick. During the 81-82 tours Ronnie was freebasing.

Quote
SweetThing
Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

Sometimes I wonder how the Stones managed to produce such great music when the principals don't seem to have anything like a good understanding of what made it great. There's wanting to replace Bill with "a black bass player" in 1970 or whenever it was, the guitarists they auditioned when Mick Taylor quit, and this.

I'm not all that keen on Ronnie's contributions to the band, but George Thorogood?! He's technically OK I guess, and he "rocks" I guess, but his stuff seems pretty sterile from what I've heard of it.

RW was certainly not the best choice musically as he contributed nothing, but he may have very well kept the band going as he could take abuse from either Mick or Keith.

The secret to Bill's success with women is in how he treats them?
I'm always nice to women and I haven't been laid in six months

Sorry to take it off topic, people. Great post and great responses.

Quote
blivet

Quote
SweetThing
Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

Sometimes I wonder how the Stones managed to produce such great music when the principals don't seem to have anything like a good understanding of what made it great. There's wanting to replace Bill with "a black bass player" in 1970 or whenever it was...

Ah, the infamous 'Busta Cherry'. Since deceased I believe.

Quote
blivet

Quote
SweetThing
Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

Sometimes I wonder how the Stones managed to produce such great music when the principals don't seem to have anything like a good understanding of what made it great. There's wanting to replace Bill with "a black bass player" in 1970 or whenever it was, the guitarists they auditioned when Mick Taylor quit, and this.

I'm not all that keen on Ronnie's contributions to the band, but George Thorogood?! He's technically OK I guess, and he "rocks" I guess, but his stuff seems pretty sterile from what I've heard of it.

Yes, no desire to bash GT, but Ronnie even at his low point was still essential to The Stones - dumping him would've been a real problem for me. Its either Ronnie or MT to make it work - hard to imagine someone else at that point.

Quote
SweetThing

Quote
blivet

Quote
SweetThing
Someone wanted to fire Ronnie in the 80s - but I don't recall where that really originated = though the 2nd part of that claim was the dreadful notion of replacing him (temporarily?) with George Thorogood.

Sometimes I wonder how the Stones managed to produce such great music when the principals don't seem to have anything like a good understanding of what made it great. There's wanting to replace Bill with "a black bass player" in 1970 or whenever it was, the guitarists they auditioned when Mick Taylor quit, and this.

I'm not all that keen on Ronnie's contributions to the band, but George Thorogood?! He's technically OK I guess, and he "rocks" I guess, but his stuff seems pretty sterile from what I've heard of it.

Yes, no desire to bash GT, but Ronnie even at his low point was still essential to The Stones - dumping him would've been a real problem for me. Its either Ronnie or MT to make it work - hard to imagine someone else at that point.

Jagger wanted to get rid of RW. RW was high on drugs. Read on page 327 in the link.

[books.google.co.uk]

More about the same here:

[books.google.co.uk]

Quote
LuxuryStones

Quote
Naturalust
LOL You guys are taking yourselves a bit too seriously to be suggesting that people reading the forum, new member or not, can't think for themselves when it comes to believing what they read. There are so many conflicting opinions on this thread alone anyone with a brain is going to figure out pretty quickly that no one knows what the hell they are talking about.

I agree, and I think musicians-guitarists in particular - have an ego/opinion that is boosted by their hero/heroes, be it Keith,Taylor, Wood, Jones or whomever. People that don't play an instrument often just follow their intuition, and of course age is a factor. People that grew up during Jones or Taylor years favour that music very often, while people born around the late 6-tees/early 7-tees often prefer the Wood years. Ive never seen any statistics though.

The latter 'fact' you state, is indeed doubtful, but if so it's often a matter of ignorance. There a quite some important examples here (f.i. our own Doxa) who only later discovered the history of the band before 'their time' and whose opinions changed. We 'oldies' were living witnesses of the decline of the band after Taylor left, because for the same money (as we say it here) we could have react by saying: Well, Taylor left and Wood has improved the band enormously. But we didn't. On the other hand we didn't say the band became obviously worse after Brian was fired.