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Aquamarine

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Stoneage
Sure BV, on stage. Off stage they are separate parties. Hence the term business relationship. Nothing wrong with that though.
But it doesn't renew their song catalogue in the same way it used to do. On the other hand they are to old now anyway.

Tell that to Leonard Cohen.

Neil Young, Macca, Robert Plant, AC DC etc.

1980s:

1990s:

Now:

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Wuudy
Who cares. Whatever we see on stage orin interviews is an act so you can't judge from that. They kept the act of not liking each other going for much longer then was probably the case because it's good publicity.
Why wouldn't they not be friends is probably a better question. If you check out Darryls, Lisa and Bernards facebook or twitter pages you really get the idea that everybody likes each other a lot on tour. Why would you go on tour with people if you don't get along and only do it because you like it?!?!

Exactly. They get along fine on tour, they all do. They have a great business relationship and it's not an issue. But when they are not on tour, Mick and Keith assiduously avoid each other, that is well known and documented. They are not friends, and you can see Mick cringe in the interviews when he is asked about the Keith being his brother thing.

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

But I agree with you . .. Who cares? I guess some people enjoy the music more if they think they are seeing a love story on stage?

RedHotCarpet, I like what you did there.

Anyone remember which show (it was fairly recent) Keith tried hugging Mick after a song, to which Mick's response was to jump away?

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun
Anyone remember which show (it was fairly recent) Keith tried hugging Mick after a song, to which Mick's response was to jump away?

classic in a way.

one person 'dumps' all over the other person and feels WAY better about the relationship.

the person that got dumped on perhaps 'moves on' but doesn't necessarily forgive and certainly doesn't forget.

Keith is generally the more forgiving of the two.
EG Keiths comments re Allen Klein (the price of an education etc).
Mick has never forgotten that whole episode nor forgiven Andrew Oldham for colluding with Klein behind their backs in that 60s whole business debacle.
Whereas Keith actually has shaken hands with ALO in public (at awards ceremony), something Mick would never do.

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jlowe
Keith is generally the more forgiving of the two.
EG Keiths comments re Allen Klein (the price of an education etc).
Mick has never forgotten that whole episode nor forgiven Andrew Oldham for colluding with Klein behind their backs in that 60s whole business debacle.
Whereas Keith actually has shaken hands with ALO in public (at awards ceremony), something Mick would never do.

Well, I think Keith's comments about Klein needs to be considered against the fact that for some reason he was the eager one to make a deal with Klein, and pushed the others to do it (I guess it was Klein's mafioso antics that impressed him). Since that deal must be the one Jagger regrets most in his life, I don't think Keith's credibility in business matters like that is something Jagger very much trusts and counts for ever since. So during the 70's when they sortened out their business, it was not only due to heroin why Keith was not much involved. I wouldn't be surprised that the Klein deal is still somehow bothering them and their relationship - if Jagger would someday write his own LIFE the deal with Klein, and Keith's role in it, could be something similar to the Anita affair troubling their relationship ever since ("look what happened, when I once trusted Keith's judgment. Not ever since, man...").

But we still need to be noted, and of which Oldham has given him credit for, it was only Bill Wyman, the only really smart one, who was voting against the deal back then. One can only imagine how much fun he had with Mick the smart business mind ever since...

I guess the "price of education" is a something so huge, including the rights for their most valuable material, that no other man has ever paid so much for one's education...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-26 18:19 by Doxa.

Agreed, Doxa.
Actually when he started getting involved Princd Rupert thought Bill had more savvy when it came to finance than Mick.
Iremember also the 1971 RS interview with Keith, I guess in reference to Klein he said something on the lines of "rather the Mafia than the CIA".
I guess even Keith has grown up a bit since then.

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jlowe
Agreed, Doxa.
Actually when he started getting involved Princd Rupert thought Bill had more savvy when it came to finance than Mick.
Iremember also the 1971 RS interview with Keith, I guess in reference to Klein he said something on the lines of "rather the Mafia than the CIA".
I guess even Keith has grown up a bit since then.

ButPrince Rupert also said he found out subsequently that he was wrong about bill having financial savvy " I thought ( wrongly as it turned out) that Bill had financial ability or something like that! He also comments several times about keiths shrewdness eg when Mick wanted to be paid extra as manager and keith asked Rupert if the things which Mick did in Rupert's sphere of activity made them money or lost them money - the no comment was telling !

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jlowe
Keith is generally the more forgiving of the two.

But he's been extremely ungrateful to Mick. Who found Jovan ($$$) for the 81 tour? Who found Michael Cohl ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) in 1989?

Keith is the archetype/caricature of the "to hell with everything! I just like to play my guitar" attitude. He's the mouth of the band but Mick is the spine and the brain...

I guess lots of water has flowed under the bridge now and both have hurt eachother in different ways and a lot has been forgiven .....

Mick loves Keith in the same way we all do, with a little dirty sex thrown in. Playing a bum not or talking out his butt he is eternally lovable. People here see him as guitarist but he is beyond that, along with John, Paul, Mick and Dylan KR is a visionary giant, it is our good fortune to have them still playing for us.

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duke richardson
RedHotCarpet, I like what you did there.

Thanks!

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DoomandGloom
Mick loves Keith in the same way we all do, with a little dirty sex thrown in. Playing a bum not or talking out his butt he is eternally lovable. People here see him as guitarist but he is beyond that, along with John, Paul, Mick and Dylan KR is a visionary giant, it is our good fortune to have them still playing for us.

D and G, could you explain this first sentence a bit more? You mean Keith has a quality that is exciting and maybe gritty, "like a little dirty sex" or do you mean something more literal or physical? Duh, maybe I get it...?

~"Love is Strong"~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-27 23:59 by angee.

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Doxa

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jlowe
Keith is generally the more forgiving of the two.
EG Keiths comments re Allen Klein (the price of an education etc).
Mick has never forgotten that whole episode nor forgiven Andrew Oldham for colluding with Klein behind their backs in that 60s whole business debacle.
Whereas Keith actually has shaken hands with ALO in public (at awards ceremony), something Mick would never do.

Well, I think Keith's comments about Klein needs to be considered against the fact that for some reason he was the eager one to make a deal with Klein, and pushed the others to do it (I guess it was Klein's mafioso antics that impressed him). Since that deal must be the one Jagger regrets most in his life, I don't think Keith's credibility in business matters like that is something Jagger very much trusts and counts for ever since. So during the 70's when they sortened out their business, it was not only due to heroin why Keith was not much involved. I wouldn't be surprised that the Klein deal is still somehow bothering them and their relationship - if Jagger would someday write his own LIFE the deal with Klein, and Keith's role in it, could be something similar to the Anita affair troubling their relationship ever since ("look what happened, when I once trusted Keith's judgment. Not ever since, man...").

But we still need to be noted, and of which Oldham has given him credit for, it was only Bill Wyman, the only really smart one, who was voting against the deal back then. One can only imagine how much fun he had with Mick the smart business mind ever since...

I guess the "price of education" is a something so huge, including the rights for their most valuable material, that no other man has ever paid so much for one's education...

- Doxa

Wasn't Wyman's "smartness" in business questioned by the business master himself, Löwenstein (in his book)?

<<I guess lots of water has flowed under the bridge>>

Just sayin' [or typin'] that a bridge, from years of tension and lack of tending, can collapse and fall into the water.



All it takes is a few sheets of paper (as in... from a book) to finally break the support....

Luckily, they went for this strategy...

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EJM
I wonder if the fact that Keith's playing has improved, particularly since the start of the European leg, has made a difference. An OOC duel might have been out of the question a year or so ago and the number of nights where keith has been unfocused and "under the weather" seem to have diminished significantly.

If Mick feels he can rely more on Keith delivering some of his old panache, the camaraderie on stage grows. You see the old love affair between keith and his guitar beginning to emerge again which must affect the rest of the band in a good way.

Ps (The trouble with fans is we are so romantic - see what we want to - and long may it last I say )

This /\

<I wonder if the fact that Keith's playing has improved, particularly since the start of the European leg, has made a difference.>

Keith's playing was excellent on the first gig (November 25, 2012), then had a dip during the US and Euro-legs. Seemingly, he's back now.

You can see and sense their friendship here...

video: [youtu.be]

Compared to what tensions were like a couple of years back (starting 6:30 [www.youtube.com]), we seem to have reached at least a friendly entente on the silent basis of mutual respect and affection

Charlie:

- They're like brothers

LOL!

That Australian 60 minutes piece from 2006 is a little jarring to watch now that they at least seem on better terms. They are both pretty nasty about the other in those interviews. Wheels really must have come off at that point in the Bigger Bang tour.

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Bluesstone
Compared to what tensions were like a couple of years back (starting 6:30 [www.youtube.com]), we seem to have reached at least a friendly entente on the silent basis of mutual respect and affection

Ouch!

Well...Interesting. Friends? No. Stuck in the same company, yes. Mick left Keith a hundred years ago. He sounds like an adult and actually he puts Keith down. "Shoots off his mouth when he's drunk". Mick is stuck with Keith and that's that's. Keith is the one who comes off like a complete egomanic.


video: [www.youtube.com]

Yes, I agree with EJM that perfectionistic Mick is certainly a lot happier with Keith now that Keith isn't letting him down and sabotaging their performance. That would go a long, long way to improving their r'ship. They are now on the same page.

Same page yes, I think Keith actually has grown up, sort of. Something has changed for the better. Hence my earlier post with the ships.

I guess Keith quitting his booze consumption and sobering up his act has hugely benefitted the relationship with Mick to the same degree as his playing improved with it. And the same way around, I think Mick is way looser now and doesn't have as much 'lead singer syndrome' as he used to, so two huge rocks in the way of a better personal relationship were sorted out.
I don't want to repeat what others have said better, but underneath it all is the shared life story of two people who have fundamentally have huge personal affection and professional respect for each other - great to see that they have gotten somewhat closer again, and thank the mighty god of rock'n roll for the Rolling Stones 2014 and counting

Was just skimming this thread...my take is it's a business relationship first. Keith is 71 shortly and at the very least has stopped being a child (with the guns and knives etcetera).

Business first, friendship second and events of recent months must have shown Mick he can at least rely on the support of his band mates. Maybe it's Keith's hand on the tiller now?