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Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: alimente ()
Date: January 3, 2015 20:18

Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: angee ()
Date: January 3, 2015 20:24

Quote
Doxa

...I cannot help thinking but that LIFE actually created a real problem between the two principals, which needed to be sorted out before Jagger was willing to work with Keith again. According to Keith, it took them for a year to discuss the matter, and each of them have admitted that Keith had apogolized. Since no details are given (good), the "apology" could refer to all those discussions they had gone through, or was done within the course of them. Even though people here seem to speculate about the statement of Jagger's, I think Keith's one speaks more volumes: the one in which he would lie to his mother for the sake of getting the band going, is a damn straight confession what he needed actually to do.

So, to go back to the original quote/statement we started with - it reflects very well the sentiments of frustration Keith was going through at the late 2011. The phone just refused to ring.

Well, that was one way to interpret the hints their public statements offer...

- Doxa

Doxa, interesting ideas you have here, as usual. Yes, excellent point, that in these words, Keith admitted to what actually had to be done. I think Keith also said what he did for a couple of reasons, first, to save face. You know, as in, Mick said I had to do it so I did, but it's not like I wanted to. Related to that, and second, I think he wanted his statement to fit with his public persona as the rogue, the scallywag, the quotable riffmaster. In this case it's likely that the real and the public personas are close or one and the same.

So...to me, it's like if you (in the general sense, never you in particular, oh no) were banned by Bjornulf and just required to apologize to get back in. You could refuse to do it and not come back to IORR, or you could do it and come back, or...you could say behind his back, I only did it for the good of IORR or to be able to post, ya know, not because I really wanted to. Even if you said later that you would have done anything to return in a post here, (or to a reporter, like Keith) you had still done the apology so might still be okay.

Does this make sense? I think most of us cared much more that the band was back together than about how sincered the apology might be or not.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 3, 2015 22:49

Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...


I have my doubts about that one...not just because I'm a creative smoking smiley
Have a listen to Leonard Cohen's latest album for example. I'm sure many on iorr know other people who in various forms of art & culture are still being creatively active in ther seventies. Poets, writers, painters, filmmakers, musicians, photographers.
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.
Take the difference between MJ & KR. What KR has been doing in the last 20 years is what MJ is doing in two years...and I think I'm being nice to KR with that.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: TeddyB1018 ()
Date: January 3, 2015 23:01

Quote
Dreamer
Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...


I have my doubts about that one...not just because I'm a creative smoking smiley
Have a listen to Leonard Cohen's latest album for example. I'm sure many on iorr know other people who in various forms of art & culture are still being creatively active in ther seventies. Poets, writers, painters, filmmakers, musicians, photographers.
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.
Take the difference between MJ & KR. What KR has been doing in the last 20 years is what MJ is doing in two years...and I think I'm being nice to KR with that.

Apples and oranges.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 3, 2015 23:51

Quote
TeddyB1018
Quote
Dreamer
Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...


I have my doubts about that one...not just because I'm a creative smoking smiley
Have a listen to Leonard Cohen's latest album for example. I'm sure many on iorr know other people who in various forms of art & culture are still being creatively active in ther seventies. Poets, writers, painters, filmmakers, musicians, photographers.
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.
Take the difference between MJ & KR. What KR has been doing in the last 20 years is what MJ is doing in two years...and I think I'm being nice to KR with that.

Apples and oranges.

Yes that's exactly what I was saying; 'take the difference between MJ & KR' to understand that it depends on the person and his or her circumstances if they can or will be still creative when in their seventies... The first ten years KR was being creative. The second decade he was limited and the third very limited. The years of MJ show a different kind of curve.
It's just an observation and yes; it's just because MJ is an apple and KR an orange.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: alimente ()
Date: January 4, 2015 06:03

Quote
Dreamer
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.

Absolutely, and that's what I meant, Dreamer. The "limited lifespan" is not to be understood as an absolute term. Exactly how limited it is depends on the individual artists (and of course his or her circumstances). I can only imagine that for a songwriting team like Jagger-Richards, it can only work as long as each member comes up with roughly the same amount of ideas, song sketches or finished compositions. When the ratio slowly falls to, let's say 10:90, the person who is responsible for 90% of new material might not be all too happy anymore with a legal situation that requires a "Jagger/Richards" tag and consequently a 50:50 income share. Keith's quote "Mick could have had every song that I have ever written" can be interpreted as a denial of a writer's block, like "I still write tons of songs, it's just that Mick is turning them down for Stones projects", which of course means that Keith is (or was at the time of writing "Life") blaming Mick for the lack of new Stones output and consequently the development of the band into an oldies act. Maybe these "between the lines"-accusations pissed Mick off more than "Dodgergate"?

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: January 4, 2015 10:56

Quote
Dreamer
Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...


I have my doubts about that one...not just because I'm a creative smoking smiley
Have a listen to Leonard Cohen's latest album for example. I'm sure many on iorr know other people who in various forms of art & culture are still being creatively active in ther seventies. Poets, writers, painters, filmmakers, musicians, photographers.
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.
Take the difference between MJ & KR. What KR has been doing in the last 20 years is what MJ is doing in two years...and I think I'm being nice to KR with that.


I guess we'll see when Keith's new material with Steve Jordan comes out. Of course, it will not compensate for the lack of material in the last 20 years, but it will show what Keith is capable of now.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 4, 2015 13:12

Quote
EJM
Quote
Dreamer
Quote
alimente
Quote
EJM
Any acknowledgement of a residual bond always pleases fans and there may be some hope, as there was a time when Mick could not bear to be near Keith which seems to have improved on this tour.

I can see that, and of course I understand the logic that if all is well between them, it theoretically increases the possibility that we fans will also benefit: Great shows, new music, whatever.

Bill Wyman once stated the he left the band at a time when all was said and done really - after the 1989/1990 world tour. Didn't history prove him right in a way? As I see it, Life is just the result of Keith's frustration with the development of the band after their promising "comeback" with Steel Wheels (album and world tour). All the money they - including, of course, Keith - made in the meantime aside, it seems clear that Keith blames Mick for this development ("Mick could have had every song I have ever written") - focussing on money-generating world tours, but losing the focus on the actual music the band was playing. So in a way, Keith maybe shares my own frustration with the band - except that I don't blame any individual band members for the loss of the creative spark to create new music over the years. It seems such a huge waste of talent that musicians of their calibre are reduced to reproduce decade-old songs live on stage, but maybe there's more truth in Bill Wyman's statement than we all, and Keith in particular, dare to acknowledge.


Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

I don't think there is much frustration in Weston CT, I think there is a happy man, thanking his luck in having a healthy wife,against all expectation , getting a return of a little of his skill and having one more shot to play with the stones


I have to say the last year he looks more relaxed. Maybe he came to terms with lots of things considering the band he's in: acknowledging MJ for doing a great job all those years, not being able to be creative in a reasonable way to produce more albums, maybe he even apologized for saying "I would do anything even lie to my mother..." which was very stupid to say after he apologized for ..gate in the first place.
Could very well be he finally sees his strategy was lousy...(and nearly made CW quit; he more or less refused to be Kofi Annan in this one).

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 4, 2015 15:04

Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.

Absolutely, and that's what I meant, Dreamer. The "limited lifespan" is not to be understood as an absolute term. Exactly how limited it is depends on the individual artists (and of course his or her circumstances). I can only imagine that for a songwriting team like Jagger-Richards, it can only work as long as each member comes up with roughly the same amount of ideas, song sketches or finished compositions. When the ratio slowly falls to, let's say 10:90, the person who is responsible for 90% of new material might not be all too happy anymore with a legal situation that requires a "Jagger/Richards" tag and consequently a 50:50 income share. Keith's quote "Mick could have had every song that I have ever written" can be interpreted as a denial of a writer's block, like "I still write tons of songs, it's just that Mick is turning them down for Stones projects", which of course means that Keith is (or was at the time of writing "Life") blaming Mick for the lack of new Stones output and consequently the development of the band into an oldies act. Maybe these "between the lines"-accusations pissed Mick off more than "Dodgergate"?

Yes alimente that's an interesting view. (MJ) Might not be happy with just the burden of doing everything alone in the band in which he already did a lot or practically everything...it's not a motivation to continue to being creative as Glimmer Twins because it takes him too long to produce something while on his own or with his own things (generating ideas to produce films, Superheavy etc) he can achieve a lot more - and also more interesting stuff (just because each project is new and fresh while with KR it's like there's always some kind of a struggle that reminds him of the last struggle...).
And 'blaming Mick'...yes that's what he's (was?) always doing. It will be interesting to have a good look & listen at his interviews and statements in 2015 about things like that. My guess: he will be a lot more friendly to MJ... smoking smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: marlau ()
Date: January 4, 2015 22:48

Quote
Bliss
Quote
Dreamer
Quote
alimente
Quote
Dreamer
Yes there's a lot of frustration in Weston CT.
And of course BW was right but the funny thing is that at this moment he's touring and playing decade-old songs live on stage... smoking smiley

And he seems to enjoy doing this... maybe Bill - unlike Keith, it seems - came to terms with the fact that true creativity, like everything, has only a limited lifespan and can't last forever...


I have my doubts about that one...not just because I'm a creative smoking smiley
Have a listen to Leonard Cohen's latest album for example. I'm sure many on iorr know other people who in various forms of art & culture are still being creatively active in ther seventies. Poets, writers, painters, filmmakers, musicians, photographers.
It depends on the person and his or her circumstances.
Take the difference between MJ & KR. What KR has been doing in the last 20 years is what MJ is doing in two years...and I think I'm being nice to KR with that.


I guess we'll see when Keith's new material with Steve Jordan comes out. Of course, it will not compensate for the lack of material in the last 20 years, but it will show what Keith is capable of now.

Yes

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: January 5, 2015 02:14

So many insightful points and personal stories here from people involved in some way with the band. I think it's likely that, regarding MJ- he's been the hands-on partner for a long time. Keith is surely used to that. Mick has probably been the CEO since late 70's...for what it's worth, something like that could be a real sore point for the other principal.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: January 5, 2015 09:30

I think it's true that Mick has carried more weight, but mainly on the touring part. The albums were obviously joint efforts up till B2B. ABB was really the first album where most of the songs came from Mick after the 1989 comeback.

And there is always two sides to a conflict. None of the glimmers are angels...

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 5, 2015 16:48

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think it's true that Mick has carried more weight, but mainly on the touring part. The albums were obviously joint efforts up till B2B. ABB was really the first album where most of the songs came from Mick after the 1989 comeback.

And there is always two sides to a conflict. None of the glimmers are angels...

What kept you? :-)
It's more like: KR must have carried something now and then but...what exactly whas that? When MJ was (apart from generating ideas to produce films and projects like Superheavy: being creative) acting as CFO & CEO organizing everything around albums, tours, reissues, vault releases, merchandising, legal stuff, etc, what spectacular things was KR doing? Being creative? Doing anything substantial to keep the band rolling the last 20 years?
Ah...writing a book! And in 20 years writing half a song a year saying "They're all for him". And every once in a while pi$$ on his shoes and tell him it's raining; don't forget that one!
So that's something to keep in mind when trying to find out why they're not creative and why they're not 'friends again'...
Compared to three or four years ago maybe some things slightly improved but that doesn't bare any holding for the future. It will be interesting though to look & listen to interviews and statements KR will give...

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: January 5, 2015 17:06

Happy new year, Dreamer smiling smiley

Let's face it. The Stones haven't been an active (creativity-wise) band since 2007. Back then they toured an album that was a close collaboration between Mick and Keith in the studio - for the first time since maybe 1989. Mick brought in most of the songs for those sessions, of course.

However, we need someone to shed some light on the Paris sessions before the Licks tour (29 songs, was it?). Were those all Mick's, and why did they scrap most of these tracks?

1996-97 was a musical "todgergate".

Was 2004/2005 the first time Keith didn't bring enough good stuff to the table - and did they have problems in Paris on the ABB-sessions.

There are lots of things the random Joe Fan doesn't know (but perhaps you do?) - and that's why it is kinda difficult speculating on why things turned out the way they did, imo.

Physical things, illness, bad chemistry, old age, family. Take a pick. There could be a vast number of reasons instead of downright meanness or free-riding.

What I'm trying to say is that this could be more complicated than what you're (not so subtly) insinuating grinning smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 5, 2015 17:18

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Happy new year, Dreamer smiling smiley

Let's face it. The Stones haven't been an active (creativity-wise) band since 2007. Back then they toured an album that was a close collaboration between Mick and Keith in the studio - for the first time since maybe 1989. Mick brought in most of the songs for those sessions, of course.

However, we need someone to shed some light on the Paris sessions before the Licks tour (29 songs, was it?). Were those all Mick's, and why did they scrap most of these tracks? Yes. Because they were all Mick's...

1996-97 was a musical "todgergate".

Was 2004/2005 the first time Keith didn't bring enough good stuff to the table - and did they have problems in Paris on the ABB-sessions. No. Yes.

There are lots of things the random Joe Fan doesn't know (but perhaps you do?) - and that's why it is kinda difficult speculating on why things turned out the way they did, imo.

Physical things, illness, bad chemistry, old age, family. Take a pick. There could be a vast number of reasons instead of downright meanness or free-riding.

What I'm trying to say is that this could be more complicated than what you're (not so subtly) insinuating grinning smiley


Same to you: happy new year Bard!
It's mainly bad chemistry due to things I 'not so subtly' wrote smoking smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: January 5, 2015 17:27

Maybe it's best to describe Mick and Keith as friends who can't stand each other.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: January 5, 2015 18:23

Quote
Dreamer
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Happy new year, Dreamer smiling smiley

Let's face it. The Stones haven't been an active (creativity-wise) band since 2007. Back then they toured an album that was a close collaboration between Mick and Keith in the studio - for the first time since maybe 1989. Mick brought in most of the songs for those sessions, of course.

However, we need someone to shed some light on the Paris sessions before the Licks tour (29 songs, was it?). Were those all Mick's, and why did they scrap most of these tracks? Yes. Because they were all Mick's...

1996-97 was a musical "todgergate".

Was 2004/2005 the first time Keith didn't bring enough good stuff to the table - and did they have problems in Paris on the ABB-sessions. No. Yes.

There are lots of things the random Joe Fan doesn't know (but perhaps you do?) - and that's why it is kinda difficult speculating on why things turned out the way they did, imo.

Physical things, illness, bad chemistry, old age, family. Take a pick. There could be a vast number of reasons instead of downright meanness or free-riding.

What I'm trying to say is that this could be more complicated than what you're (not so subtly) insinuating grinning smiley


Same to you: happy new year Bard!
It's mainly bad chemistry due to things I 'not so subtly' wrote smoking smiley

Keith could have fooled me with Losing My Touch and (parts of) Keys To Your Love, but ok smiling smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: January 5, 2015 19:25

Post Edited by me - does not add to the thread !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-05 21:00 by EJM.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: January 5, 2015 23:51

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Keith could have fooled me with Losing My Touch and (parts of) Keys To Your Love, but ok smiling smiley


Keith can fool anyone.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: January 5, 2015 23:56

Quote
Dreamer
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Keith could have fooled me with Losing My Touch and (parts of) Keys To Your Love, but ok smiling smiley


Keith can fool anyone.[/quote

He didnt fool Ry Cooder!

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: January 6, 2015 00:01

Quote
jlowe
Quote
Dreamer
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Keith could have fooled me with Losing My Touch and (parts of) Keys To Your Love, but ok smiling smiley


Keith can fool anyone.[/quote

He didnt fool Ry Cooder!

Yeah, Ry wrote HTW and the entire LIB... eye rolling smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: marlau ()
Date: January 7, 2015 02:03

Quote
MKjan
Maybe it's best to describe Mick and Keith as friends who can't stand each other.

Yeah, maybe. smiling smiley

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: January 7, 2015 02:26

I haven't checked into this thread in awhile.

Is this question, "Have Mick and Keith become friends again?" from the last "falling out" or is there a new one?

I didn't want to have to read the last 9 pages of banter.

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: January 7, 2015 02:32

I think the consensus appears to be probably keith and mick have not become friends again but whatever bond is left may be a little bit less fragile ....

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: January 7, 2015 03:00

Have Mick and Keith become friends again?

Do we see photos like this in later years?


Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: January 7, 2015 11:48

Quote
stonehearted
Have Mick and Keith become friends again?

Do we see photos like this in later years?


Yep (and by the time the pic you posted was taken, they were supposed to hate eachother smiling smiley )




Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: January 7, 2015 11:54

When was that last one taken ?

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: MartinB ()
Date: January 7, 2015 12:20

What a great picture (the black and white)!

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: BILLPERKS ()
Date: January 7, 2015 14:10

Quote
MKjan
Maybe it's best to describe Mick and Keith as friends who can't stand each other.
BINGO !!!

Re: Have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: DoctorFreddie ()
Date: January 7, 2015 14:16

Its about time they come out of the closet. They love each othereye rolling smiley

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