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Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: December 14, 2014 11:21

It's all pure speculation but I wonder if keith's "regression" has halted a bit. I think he made sense of his life in his head when he dictated his autobiography. The last year or so he has been different. I just hope the johnny Depp film is never released as the interviews were during the phase when he was revisiting the past with a different perspective from now ( it seems)

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 14, 2014 11:29

Quote
stonehearted
The above link to the material received by "Bill Wyman" has I believe been posted here before and has been determined to be fake. It is merely "he saw that it seemed to be the thoughts, at some length, of singer Mick Jagger".... Therefore, an imagined response of Mick over Keith's autobio. The "journalist" in question is also named "Bill Wyman".

So, the words "I am, I see here, marginally endowed, if I read Keith's sniggering aright. I do not sing well, either" should not be taken as a quote, but instead merely as a fictional speculation, nothing more. Otherwise, it would have been more widely disseminated and confirmed by Jagger himself, in follow-up interviews. As far as we can tell, he has never publicly officially commented on his longtime business partner's tell-all book.

If you bothered to read the article, you would see it's not a fake. It doesn't claim to be written by Bill (Perks) Wyman, or by Mick. It is a respected rock journalist's perpective of the decades long dynamic between Mick and Keith. And in his summary, he makes some solid points.

Bill (Perks) Wyman once attempted to sue the journalist for the use of 'his' name. But it turned out the journalist Bill Wyman had been using his own name longer than the musician Bill Wyman had been using his adopted one.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: December 14, 2014 11:50

I was speaking to NL's post, who, from the text of it, seemed to think that this was actually Mick "speaking" to Keith's book, so, fake in that regard. Fabricated if you will.

By the way, is there really such a thing as a "respected rock journalist"? I mean, great job if you can get it, but hardly any talent required.

At first, while growing up listening to my favorite music and imagining my own editorialized reviews of the music, the artists, and the legacy in connection with the times in which they lived, I thought that I too might become a "rock journalist". So, I went to college, majored in journalism, and then for several years after worked as a janitor.

But I kept on writing. Perhaps I should have changed my name to Bill Wyman--I would really have cleaned up, in a manner of speaking.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 14, 2014 11:59

>>But I kept on writing. Perhaps I should have changed my name to Bill Wyman--I would really have cleaned up, in a manner of speaking.


Well, SH, if you could write as well as Bill Wyman, perhaps you would have..

Back to my point...could Mick and Keith really be close, if their r'ship had progressed in the manner described in the article? Much of what has been described are matters of fact, not conjecture.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: December 14, 2014 20:18

Quote
Bliss
Back to my point...could Mick and Keith really be close, if their r'ship had progressed in the manner described in the article? Much of what has been described are matters of fact, not conjecture.

The article is brutal and since it offers a fictional perspective, takes great liberty and is so negatively focused it loses all credibility.

What he later said about the article:

"In a recent follow-up blog post, Wyman recounted how he spent months poring over books, videos, documentaries on the Stones, and talking to people that had worked with the band.

“I was supposed to do a short, straight review,” Wyman said. “But I had all these notes and they started coming together and it just sort of seemed to flow.”

“There was an enormous amount of reading and research involved and I’m pretty confident that everything in the piece is very, very true,” Wyman said in a recent phone conversation. “I can’t speak for Mick Jagger’s voice, of course.”"

Months of enormous amounts of research and reading obviously trying to find as much dirt on Keith as he could. Hard to respect that kind work.

Bliss I know you are a huge MJ fan but it was obvious to me after reading Life that Keith is too. I sensed a lot of love for him from Keith and I thought the majority of book was very complimentary, unlike the bitter and one-sided article. But to honesty answer you question, yes the article does, sadly, point out some possible reasons that Mick is not best of friends with Keith these days.

peace

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 14, 2014 21:50

Hey!!! that's showbiz .....



ROCKMAN

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: December 14, 2014 22:08

The key issue for me is whether their relationship these days is such that the process of making and putting out some new product is beyond their means.
The individual members of The Beatles were pretty much at loggerheads in 1968/69 yet they produced some of their greatest work during this period.
Of course their recording process differed to some degree, as you can tell from the White Album in particular, the songs being pretty finished by the time it came to studio time.
Has their creative spark dried up? Not if Keiths forthcoming solo effort is new work and Mick in interviews often implies he is working on new material.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: December 15, 2014 12:21

Quote
Bliss
Quote
stonehearted
The above link to the material received by "Bill Wyman" has I believe been posted here before and has been determined to be fake. It is merely "he saw that it seemed to be the thoughts, at some length, of singer Mick Jagger".... Therefore, an imagined response of Mick over Keith's autobio. The "journalist" in question is also named "Bill Wyman".

So, the words "I am, I see here, marginally endowed, if I read Keith's sniggering aright. I do not sing well, either" should not be taken as a quote, but instead merely as a fictional speculation, nothing more. Otherwise, it would have been more widely disseminated and confirmed by Jagger himself, in follow-up interviews. As far as we can tell, he has never publicly officially commented on his longtime business partner's tell-all book.

If you bothered to read the article, you would see it's not a fake. It doesn't claim to be written by Bill (Perks) Wyman, or by Mick. It is a respected rock journalist's perpective of the decades long dynamic between Mick and Keith. And in his summary, he makes some solid points.

Bill (Perks) Wyman once attempted to sue the journalist for the use of 'his' name. But it turned out the journalist Bill Wyman had been using his own name longer than the musician Bill Wyman had been using his adopted one.

He didn't correct it before a couple of days later. Caused some confusion smiling smiley

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 15, 2014 13:17

Quote
ronkeith72
Anybody who thinks they aren't great friends is idiotic. They're the closest of friends who as Keith recently put it are...."thick as thieves". Just because they don't go "clubbing" together after shows at age 70 + doesn't mean that they have a strict business relationship..."Become friends again"???? Pure rubbish!!!!

No offense but that sounds a bit naive. Why would they be friends at all and why is that important? If one observes how and what Mick has said about Keith (no quotes needed) generally over the years it becomes clear that Mick has nothing in common with Keith except of course for the business and way back when they were in their 20s. They had an artistic partnership that succeeded to keep Mick in the Stones until it was too late for Mick to go solo (remember Performance was done in 1968). As long as Mick gained something, when it was a win-win for Mick and Keith was nice and numb and Mick could collaborate with various musicians (spanning from Cooder to Preston via Taylor) things were ok.

Keith said Mick is hard to get to know and you never know who he really is. I think that's because Mick doesn't want Keith to be his friend and never really wanted to. Jagger probably has close friends and he has a family none of which Keith Richards is or ever were part of. A relationship yes, but not friendship except probably for 67-68, partly because of another associate and different kind of inspiration: Brian - and thanks to the lure of Anita.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 15, 2014 15:04

I think Mick and Keith did have an incredible bond at the beginning, when they shared the experience of creating the best rock music and achieving extraordinary success in a very short time. Possibly John and Paul had the same bond for those reasons. It is certainly not in the realm of ordinary events. They also had their first LSD experiences together, at a time when the limitations and dangers of drug experimentation were not known. And not to forget that together they were hounded and persecuted by the law. In the article, 'Mick' acknowledges Keith's gift, and says how it brought out the best in him. 'He' questions what he would have been without Keith, and speculates that he might have been another Peter Noone (lead singer of Herman's Hermits).

But Keith lost Mick with his heroin addiction and his reckless behaviour which repeatedly jeopardised the band, Mick's source of income and creative outlet. It was a betrayal of their original pact. It was as if Keith had turned into Mick's worst enemy and biggest nightmare.

To me, Keith was like a willfully destructive child who expected unconditional love and neverending forgiveness. I agree with the above poster that, considering all that he has done, there is little possiblity that Mick could ever truly forgive Keith. I also think that Keith, like a child, has never lost his love for Mick, and as Mick said, the scurrilous statements in 'Life' were a bid to get his attention.

At least now, in the final act of their longstanding partnership, they have managed to overcome their grievances, and are once again pulling together.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: December 26, 2014 07:46

Quote
Bliss
I think Mick and Keith did have an incredible bond at the beginning, when they shared the experience of creating the best rock music and achieving extraordinary success in a very short time. Possibly John and Paul had the same bond for those reasons. It is certainly not in the realm of ordinary events. They also had their first LSD experiences together, at a time when the limitations and dangers of drug experimentation were not known. And not to forget that together they were hounded and persecuted by the law. In the article, 'Mick' acknowledges Keith's gift, and says how it brought out the best in him. 'He' questions what he would have been without Keith, and speculates that he might have been another Peter Noone (lead singer of Herman's Hermits).

But Keith lost Mick with his heroin addiction and his reckless behaviour which repeatedly jeopardised the band, Mick's source of income and creative outlet. It was a betrayal of their original pact. It was as if Keith had turned into Mick's worst enemy and biggest nightmare.

B;iss, I do feel that their friendship lasted longer. When I say lasted I think I mean as in it being a two-way street. I think at any given time, to this vefry day, Keith would drop anything in favor of Mick. It has always been up to Mick, as to how deep the bond goes. Back to '62 when Keith basically tagged along with Mick. And, like someone mentioned before Mick stayed fiercely loyal to his band, to each member, and to Keith. Up through the WW3, and then '89 one can find many quotes by Mick where he speaked very well of keith; with love and respect. And actually responds to the whole 'brothers' bit. Nowadays he will not even condescend to comment on that foolish notion. Keith is out of his orbit. I do think Keith brought that on himself.

To me, Keith was like a willfully destructive child who expected unconditional love and neverending forgiveness. I agree with the above poster that, considering all that he has done, there is little possiblity that Mick could ever truly forgive Keith. I also think that Keith, like a child, has never lost his love for Mick, and as Mick said, the scurrilous statements in 'Life' were a bid to get his attention.

At least now, in the final act of their longstanding partnership, they have managed to overcome their grievances, and are once again pulling together.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 26, 2014 20:59

Quote
Bliss
I think Mick and Keith did have an incredible bond at the beginning, when they shared the experience of creating the best rock music and achieving extraordinary success in a very short time. Possibly John and Paul had the same bond for those reasons. It is certainly not in the realm of ordinary events. They also had their first LSD experiences together, at a time when the limitations and dangers of drug experimentation were not known. And not to forget that together they were hounded and persecuted by the law. In the article, 'Mick' acknowledges Keith's gift, and says how it brought out the best in him. 'He' questions what he would have been without Keith, and speculates that he might have been another Peter Noone (lead singer of Herman's Hermits).

But Keith lost Mick with his heroin addiction and his reckless behaviour which repeatedly jeopardised the band, Mick's source of income and creative outlet. It was a betrayal of their original pact. It was as if Keith had turned into Mick's worst enemy and biggest nightmare.

To me, Keith was like a willfully destructive child who expected unconditional love and neverending forgiveness. I agree with the above poster that, considering all that he has done, there is little possiblity that Mick could ever truly forgive Keith. I also think that Keith, like a child, has never lost his love for Mick, and as Mick said, the scurrilous statements in 'Life' were a bid to get his attention.

At least now, in the final act of their longstanding partnership, they have managed to overcome their grievances, and are once again pulling together.

you smacked that one out of the park Bliss.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 26, 2014 21:26

Quote
Bliss
I think Mick and Keith did have an incredible bond at the beginning, when they shared the experience of creating the best rock music and achieving extraordinary success in a very short time. Possibly John and Paul had the same bond for those reasons. It is certainly not in the realm of ordinary events. They also had their first LSD experiences together, at a time when the limitations and dangers of drug experimentation were not known. And not to forget that together they were hounded and persecuted by the law. In the article, 'Mick' acknowledges Keith's gift, and says how it brought out the best in him. 'He' questions what he would have been without Keith, and speculates that he might have been another Peter Noone (lead singer of Herman's Hermits).

But Keith lost Mick with his heroin addiction and his reckless behaviour which repeatedly jeopardised the band, Mick's source of income and creative outlet. It was a betrayal of their original pact. It was as if Keith had turned into Mick's worst enemy and biggest nightmare.

To me, Keith was like a willfully destructive child who expected unconditional love and neverending forgiveness. I agree with the above poster that, considering all that he has done, there is little possiblity that Mick could ever truly forgive Keith. I also think that Keith, like a child, has never lost his love for Mick, and as Mick said, the scurrilous statements in 'Life' were a bid to get his attention.

At least now, in the final act of their longstanding partnership, they have managed to overcome their grievances, and are once again pulling together.

+1 on everything except sort of the last bit meaning I think Mick simply doesn't give a damn as always, and created a new show with ok versions of their songs and with Keith obviously not in the same seriously bad shape he was in the last time.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 27, 2014 10:58

>> +1 on everything except sort of the last bit meaning I think Mick simply doesn't give a damn as always, and created a new show with ok versions of their songs and with Keith obviously not in the same seriously bad shape he was in the last time.

Really? Don't you think Mick is delighted that Keith is now back on board and performing well enough to generate millions of $-£-€?

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: December 27, 2014 11:07

For all we know, the both of them are laughing all the way to the bank about this feud. We speculate, and we know just bits of how they're getting along.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 27, 2014 11:27

For all we know, the both of them are laughing

......YEAH that's about it DP.......



ROCKMAN

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Jesse1960 ()
Date: December 27, 2014 17:11

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
MrThompsonWooft
It is a marriage of convenience. And the matey gestures of affection are good for business. They convince the paying audience that they are a loveable gang of old rogues who enjoy each others company. Away from the public I suspect it's another matter entirely.

The fights are good for business, too smiling smiley

As the old saying goes, it's the irritation which produces the pearl.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: December 27, 2014 17:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
For all we know, the both of them are laughing all the way to the bank about this feud. We speculate, and we know just bits of how they're getting along.
This is the bottom line truth. What we see is the constructed facade for a fabulously successful business. And they are as good at that as they are at producing rock and roll music. The best. And there's nothing wrong with it, it's not like their are putting anything over on anyone.

Bill Clinton might say it depends on what you mean by friends. They are the best of business partners, but socially they do not interact and in fact avoid each other above all else. Whatever time they spend together is for the business. They have other friends (i.e., people with whom one spends time socially).

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: December 27, 2014 18:27

Quote
DandelionPowderman
For all we know, the both of them are laughing all the way to the bank about this feud. We speculate, and we know just bits of how they're getting along.

Actually the first line is also speculation. Most likely they are laughing all the way to the bank, because their business is doing alright, be there a feud or not.

- Doxa

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: December 27, 2014 21:32

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
For all we know, the both of them are laughing all the way to the bank about this feud. We speculate, and we know just bits of how they're getting along.

Actually the first line is also speculation. Most likely they are laughing all the way to the bank, because their business is doing alright, be there a feud or not.

- Doxa

Yes, but that was my point. That the first line is just as accurate, compared to what we really know, as all the very detailed theories about their relationship "revealed" here.

PS: And someone knows, but doesn't necessarily want to correct some good stories here smiling smiley

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: 1969Fan ()
Date: December 27, 2014 22:11

Quote
LiveAtHidepark
Quote
MrThompsonWooft
Quote
Rokyfan
Quote
MrThompsonWooft
Quote
duke richardson
Quote
MrThompsonWooft
It is a marriage of convenience. And the matey gestures of affection are good for business. They convince the paying audience that they are a loveable gang of old rogues who enjoy each others company. Away from the public I suspect it's another matter entirely.



why is that?

they don't see each other much when not on tour, sure..doesn't mean the friendship changes..


Given all the comments down the years, notably but not exclusively in Keith's book, I just don't buy these displays of mateyness between Mick and Keith. They are just about maintaining the brand.

Mick confirms this every time he is asked. they are business partners and I am sure there has to be some love between them deep down, but they have not been friends, they have not spent any time together other than work, for decades.

It's funny how this seems to matter to some fans.

Well, fans who believe in fairy tales!

Fans are ... fans.

Please don't tell them Santa Claus do not exists !

Keith has always said he and Mick are brothers...they may not agree on things, but if you're going to go after Mick, you'll have to go through him first.

I had the good fortune to be present in Montauk LI for some of the 1975 TOTA rehearsals. They were set up in the living room of a large home they were renting before the Tour. Keith had given Mick a vintage Strat for his birthday. One night Keith stood directly behind him, and gently reached around to help him play it. I don't remember the tune, but it was a touching moment.

I want to think the care and affection he showed for Mick then is still there today. They are different people. But they have gone through way too much together over the last 50+ years not to care.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Date: December 28, 2014 09:42

Quote
Rockman
For all we know, the both of them are laughing

......YEAH that's about it DP.......

But DP had added the words 'to the bank' in there; which greatly changes the quote

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: whirlegreg ()
Date: December 28, 2014 09:45

No not that long, one of Mick's Parents Funerals, Ronnie's Daughters Wedding? Was MJ there? and 9/11 Performance and promo for that+++

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 28, 2014 10:08

But DP had added the words 'to the bank' in there

ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



ROCKMAN

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: December 28, 2014 12:22

Quote
DandelionPowderman
For all we know, the both of them are laughing all the way to the bank about this feud. We speculate, and we know just bits of how they're getting along.

You mean, that bit about the "tiny todger" in Life... was all Mick's idea? eye popping smiley

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 28, 2014 14:31

Quote
Bliss
>> +1 on everything except sort of the last bit meaning I think Mick simply doesn't give a damn as always, and created a new show with ok versions of their songs and with Keith obviously not in the same seriously bad shape he was in the last time.

Really? Don't you think Mick is delighted that Keith is now back on board and performing well enough to generate millions of $-£-€?

But thats my point, Mick just wants to have a good show, keep the train rolling without any mishaps. And then when it's over, do other stuff. He's stuck with Keith in the Rolling Stones but if possible he will do something else. Ever since Performance in 1968.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: December 28, 2014 21:11

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
Bliss
>> +1 on everything except sort of the last bit meaning I think Mick simply doesn't give a damn as always, and created a new show with ok versions of their songs and with Keith obviously not in the same seriously bad shape he was in the last time.

Really? Don't you think Mick is delighted that Keith is now back on board and performing well enough to generate millions of $-£-€?

But thats my point, Mick just wants to have a good show, keep the train rolling without any mishaps. And then when it's over, do other stuff. He's stuck with Keith in the Rolling Stones but if possible he will do something else. Ever since Performance in 1968.

Yes, can't argue with that.

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: marlau ()
Date: December 30, 2014 21:48

I think that they're friends again. While the last tour, they don't seemed to hate each other and there's also this pic that I found:

If Mick hate Keith, I don't think that he would touch his shoulder...

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: marlau ()
Date: December 30, 2014 21:52

Quote
marlau
I think that they're friends again. While the last tour, they don't seemed to hate each other and there's also this pic that I found:

If Mick hate Keith, I don't think that he would touch his shoulder...

Here's the pic...:

Re: have Mick and Keith become friends again?
Posted by: marlau ()
Date: December 30, 2014 21:54

...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-12-30 21:57 by marlau.

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