I agree, G67. But there are a lot of markets out there functioning about the the same as ticket scalping. Some even say corruption and bribes are necessary on a well functioning market. But this was just a digression...

Quote
grzegorz67

Quote
Stoneage
Why? Seems like a lucrative business. Neoliberals are constantly telling us we need entrepreneurs. Why not ticket scalpers? A ticket scalper is something to be...

It's extractive wealth creation. They produce nothing themselves other than purchase a product genuinely desired by others then sell on at a profit. They add no value and are simply bare faced parasites. I have no problem with and and positively support those who generate wealth by adding value.

They also assume some of the risk from the promoter and often lose money.

That's one reason why only a handful of artists who can absolutely sell 100% of every seat might decide to take some sort of action on further controlling how tickets are distributed.

Keep in mind Ticketmaster and Axs are such awful sites that many consumers prefer to use the secondary sites based simply upon ease of use and better selection.

This could be a great career move on his part in further endearing him to his fanbase or in a few years he might find himself wishing brokers would snap up his unsold tickets. Not really sure it would signal a sea change as in very few artists have this kind of demand.

My wife was out with her friends last night and her friend said she had brought tickets valued at £112 for Coventry and she had paid around £375 for two tickets.

Usual thing unfortunately, a person who does not usually buy concert tickets and clicked on the first ticketing web site and the standard ' usual two minutes, before your tickets go' scenario.

Because it's a first local ( Coventry ) concert and a few family members and friends and work colleagues are going, at least I have directed them to the official ticket sites, I mean they are expensive enough.

Tickets outside the venue for both London Stadium shows
were selling for well below face value.
I saw some being sold for £20 and £30 quid on Tuesday so I went back
on Friday and got a good one for only £20.
I was surprised how full it was inside the stadium.
Just too many spare tickets on the day I suppose.
Touts were buying offering to buy spare tickets for just £10 and £20.
A couple of them were not even bothering buying seat tickets.

Ed Sheeran 'not trying to stitch fans up' over UK tour tickets

Ed Sheeran says his "strong" approach on secondary tickets for his gigs will benefit fans in the long run.

People who turned up to the first dates of his UK tour in Manchester with resold tickets were told they were invalid and had to buy new ones.

"The only people it is going to harm in the end is the touts," Ed told Newsbeat at the Biggest Weekend in Swansea.

"I hate the idea of people paying more than face value for tickets when you can get them at face value."

Some fans were angry at their tickets not being valid, including one woman who said she was "fuming" after apparently paying £400 for two tickets.

When Ed Sheeran's latest tour dates went on sale, he stated that secondary tickets would not be valid.

His promoters have cancelled more than 10,000 tickets that were resold on Viagogo - often at vastly inflated prices - for 18 dates in the star's sold-out tour.

In Manchester, fans with resold tickets were asked to pay £80, which is the face value of a ticket.

Their original ticket was then stamped invalid.

Ed says those people are legally able to get a refund from the secondary ticket site.

"It's all being done properly I'm not trying to stitch fans up," he told us.

"People just need to start taking a stance and within two or three years companies like Viagogo are going to be kaput (no longer in business).

"Loads of acts are doing it, Arctic Monkeys, Adele, no one is OK with it.

"The fans are not OK with secondary tickets. Sometimes you can spend all that money and it is a fake ticket.

"I think it is just about being strong and not giving in."

Ed's manager Stuart Galbraith agreed, telling Newsbeat: "Everyone who has been through this process has been really grateful".

"We've had no complaints, we are just trying to make sure people don't get ripped off.

"We will help you get your refund off Viagogo and other secondary sites."

Viagogo directed the BBC to the FAQ section of it's website when asked for a response to this story.

It says it protests against concert promoters who deny entry to fans using resold tickets.

"These types of entry restrictions are highly unfair and in our view, unenforceable and illegal," it says.

Newsbeat has put Ed Sheeran's comments to Viagogo and is awaiting a response.

[www.bbc.com]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I am inclined to agree with his analysis, Viagogo and their like are now on "borrowed time" ... the end is actually finally coming into sight. It was inevitable. If they had elected to exercise some modicum of restraint, abide by consumer act legislation, and operated with a little more transparency - maybe they'd not now be facing being put out of business altogether ? But they didn't, so ... ? It'll soon enough be "bye bye" and "good f***ing riddance" !

Personally, can't wait to one day read that they've finally been consigned to the dustbin of "live music history" !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Touts using football resale sites rip off fans and put them at risk

Guardian investigation finds vast numbers of tickets being sold on again despite it being illegal

Football tickets are being touted on resale websites in vast numbers, a Guardian investigation has found, prompting warnings that fans are being ripped off and their safety put at risk.

Undercover filming has revealed how websites including Viagogo and Ticketbis exploit alliances with professional touts to bypass laws drawn up to improve fan safety, and prevent touting, following the Hillsborough disaster.

The Guardian highlighted how reselling undermines fan segregation after Milan supporters were placed among Arsenal fans at a Europa League tie in London despite buying “away” tickets on Viagogo.

Under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, it is an offence for a person without authorisation from a football club to sell a ticket or otherwise dispose of it to a third party. But resale websites based overseas, including the four sites in the Guardian investigation, are able to ignore this law.

Tickets bought by the Guardian for games involving Tottenham Hotspur, Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea were priced far above face value, prompting anger from fans’ groups about the impact on the cost of watching football.

Ticket resale websites are fuelling the rising cost of watching live football, with some tickets selling for eight times their face value
Fresh revelations about the rise of online touting come after mass online reselling was blamed for crowd disturbances at a Europa League match between Arsenal and Cologne in September.

One man, an “agent” for Ticketbis operating outside Wembley Stadium, boasted that he had hundreds of tickets for every Tottenham Hotspur game, something experts said could not be done legally. He later claimed he did not sell tickets and was just a “courier” for Ticketbis, owned by the leading ticket resale site StubHub, despite having been filmed offering to cut the website out of any future ticket purchases.

The Guardian also bought a ticket through the Switzerland-based Viagogo for Arsenal’s Europa League tie against Milan in March.

The ticket was listed as being in the Milan supporters’ section but turned out to be a seat assigned to fans with an Arsenal membership, contravening strict segregation policies designed to prevent violence at football matches. Four Milan fans at the game, who said they had also ended up in the wrong section after buying through Viagogo, were subjected to verbal abuse during the match.

At a Tottenham Hotspur match with Leicester City, a Ticketbis “agent” – a term used by the site for the person handing over the ticket, which in some cases appears to be a professional tout – had several season ticket cards, usually owned by dedicated fans. He claimed to be able to procure tickets for “anything”, including football and music events.

Tickets for the Manchester City v Basel Champions League in March were delivered by a courier holding multiple envelopes bearing names and collection instructions, indicating a well-organised operation. All of the websites used to buy tickets advertised multiple games in competitions including the Premier League, Europa League, Champions League, FA Cup and even next month’s World Cup in Russia.

Touts questioned by the Guardian declined to say how they got hold of tickets but some were in possession of season tickets while at least one seat was obtained using a club membership.

Software designed to harvest tickets from individual football clubs’ ticketing systems is also freely available online.

One security and ticketing expert said the new evidence was “disconcerting”.

“The legislation prohibiting unauthorised resale of football tickets is there to stop public order problems. It’s a recipe for disaster, ticket resale for football matches on this scale,” Reg Walker, who runs the Iridium Consultancy, said.

He added that there was no legitimate way that anyone could have hundreds of tickets for sale.

“You’d have to pretend to be multiple consumers [to buy the tickets] but you’re acting as a business because you’re selling them on at a profit. That’s unlawful,” he added.

Arsenal have urged fans to use the club’s own ticket exchange system and condemned touting, which a spokesperson said had “potential safety implications as this could compromise the segregation of fans”.

The club added that touting “results in supporters paying inflated prices to watch the team, which is not fair”.

All five ticket purchases made by the Guardian were significantly above face value, sparking concern from fans’ groups about the impact on prices and criticism of clubs that have commercial partnerships with resale platforms. Manchester City, for instance, have a business alliance with Viagogo that allows legitimate ticket exchange between fans.

A spokesperson for the Football Supporters’ Federation said: “We’ve long been opposed to supporters having to pay hugely inflated ticket prices to see their team. Unfortunately, club partnerships with resellers and secondary ticketing sites enable this all too frequently.”

As well as Viagogo and Ticketbis, the Guardian purchased tickets from smaller sites. For Manchester City v Basel, tickets were sold through a Spain-based company called Livefootballtickets.net, while a ticket for Chelsea away to Leicester City came from the Malta-based Football Ticket Pad.

Viagogo declined to comment, while StubHub, which paid £120m to buy the Spain-based Ticketbis in 2016, said it “complies with UK laws and does not allow the resale of football tickets unless this has been authorised by the club”.

A spokesperson for Tottenham Hotspur said Ticketbis was not one of its authorised sellers and urged fans not to buy from the company or similar sites.

A spokesperson for Football Ticket Pad said the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, which outlawed ticket resale in 1994, had “served its purpose, which we are glad to say given that football violence is all but over”. The company said it was not bound by UK law but had tried to ensure fans were not seated in the wrong end.

Live Football Tickets did not respond to a request for comment.

Insp Matt Ashmead, of the Metropolitan police’s central football unit, said the police did run anti-touting operations but that existing legislation gave them limited power to tackle offshore websites.

“My opinion is that they [ticket companies] have found a loophole,” he said.

“Closing it would require legislation that would have to incorporate wording that would include the electronic offer to sell from a location outside of the UK. The legislation has not kept pace with the technology.”

The deputy leader of the Labour party, Tom Watson, urged the government to act on “industrial scale” ticket touting. He said: “There’s a reason there are strict rules segregating home and away fans. The resale of tickets by companies like Ticketbis and Viagogo is endangering supporters and pricing honest fans out of the game.”

[www.theguardian.com]

[www.theguardian.com]

[www.theguardian.com]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

Quote
nobodyimportant
I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

God knows, but in general terms I sense that the secondary market as it currently exists and in its current form & exhibiting whatever 'practices' it presently does - is rapidly approaching the point of being subjected to a massive (probably legislative and regulatory) shake-up !! Seems that little by little the tide of not only public opinion - but also that of artists, promoters, some politicians - is turning against the companies that operate in this marketplace.

And not a moment too bloody soon !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
odean73
My wife was out with her friends last night and her friend said she had brought tickets valued at £112 for Coventry and she had paid around £375 for two tickets.

Usual thing unfortunately, a person who does not usually buy concert tickets and clicked on the first ticketing web site and the standard ' usual two minutes, before your tickets go' scenario.

Because it's a first local ( Coventry ) concert and a few family members and friends and work colleagues are going, at least I have directed them to the official ticket sites, I mean they are expensive enough.

My wife's friend did unfortunately use viagogo Just been on their site and as suspected the usual selling out fast, there is a billion people looking at these tickets banners shot up. I'm so annoyed that they have been conned and wonder how many more people have.

A massive thumbs up to Ed Sheeran and others like him that care about their fans. The word is integrity, Something The Stones lack when it comes to such things......

I may not rate the mans music that much, but Ed is obviously a lovely bloke. If only all artists carried the same morals he does.

Secondary ticketing: how it works, the law, pitfalls and the future

The internet has transformed an industry once dominated by street-based touts

Secondary ticketing refers to the practice of reselling tickets for an event, such as a rock concert or a football match.

The law regarding secondary sale of football tickets is clear: it is illegal unless the club has given express authorisation, such as Manchester City’s partnership with Viagogo. However, it is still perfectly legal to resell tickets for other events such as gigs and concerts, as long as the sale abides by consumer protection laws.

In the past, the secondary market was dominated by street-based touts operating outside venues, buying tickets cheaply from people who had spares and selling them on to last-minute buyers. While street touts still exist, the advent of the internet has transformed the industry.

These days the secondary market is dominated by four major players – StubHub, Viagogo, Seatwave and GetMeIn – which provide online platforms for people to sell on tickets, often at inflated prices, for artists such as Adele and Metallica.

While many of the people using these sites are genuine fans who cannot attend an event and want to recoup their money, in recent years the practice has become increasingly dominated by a relatively small group of “armchair” touts.

These traders use a variety of methods, some exposed in previous Guardian reporting, to harvest hundreds of tickets before genuine fans can get hold of them. They can list them in bulk on the secondary platforms and cash in from the comfort of their homes.

For the most in-demand events the tickets are often sold at many times their face value. Touts have built multimillion-pound businesses, some based offshore, on the back of this.

Over the past few years there have been many examples of major secondary ticketing companies breaching consumer laws. For instance, some have not disclosed to buyers that the terms and conditions of their ticket could result in them being turned away at the door, if a promoter or venue has a strict anti-touting policy.

Other firms have sold tickets that do not carry any information about where the seat will be.

The government recently tightened up the law, implementing legal changes that require sellers to furnish buyers with as much information as possible about the tickets and that sellers disclose any restrictions.

Meanwhile, the Competition and Markets Authority is conducting an investigation into whether the secondary market is fair and has said it is considering legal action against Viagogo. It raided the London offices of the Switzerland-based firm and competitor StubHub last year.

National Trading Standards, the government agency that tackles rogue traders, is looking into whether the actions of touts are lawful and made four arrests last year. However, secondary ticketing platforms are still dominated by professional touts listing hundreds of tickets at once and making tidy profits. The websites, of course, take a handsome cut.

[www.theguardian.com]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Sorry to be boring people, and go on and on about this, but really ........ these companies need to be put out of business !!

In that respect, anything I can do to help and bring forward the day ........ !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
paulywaul
Sorry to be boring people, and go on and on about this, but really ........ these companies need to be put out of business !!

In that respect, anything I can do to help and bring forward the day ........ !!

There is no way to apologise.

Quote
nobodyimportant
I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

Doesn’t TicketBastards own Stubhub? They’re definitely milking both ends of the cow.

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl

Quote
nobodyimportant
I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

Doesn’t TicketBastards own Stubhub? They’re definitely milking both ends of the cow.

Exactly.

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl

Quote
nobodyimportant
I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

Doesn’t TicketBastards own Stubhub? They’re definitely milking both ends of the cow.

Stubhub is owned by eBay. Ticketmaster own both Seatwave and Getmein. To me, that just takes the piss. There is nothing to stop the Primary Seller from diverting tickets straight to their own subsidiary secondary seller without ever being put on sale through the Primary Seller.
Then as tickets are slow to shift, they quietly drip feed tickets back to the Primary seller. The whole event ticketing industry for music and sport is as bent as a Shepherd’s crook.

The secondary market can work in your favour as well.

I don't know haw many times I've paid less than face - often 30 -60% discount for prime seats.

Case in point: got two 8th row tix to 'sold out' David Byrne, the day of the show for $37 usd each, face was $90.

Sure, its spinning the roulette wheel, and sometimes you come up empty, but its like the stock market - (perceived) supply vs (perceived) demand. Of course, the suppliers (promoters, TM, etc) try and stack the deck so it always looks like demand outweighs supply (eg. holding back blocks of tickets, using the local media to fuel demand, etc.), but sometimes you just gotta use your intuition - and luck.

I would advice anyone living in a city where they will play to buy your tickets outside the stadium for £20 or less. It takes some nerves but is often worth the effort.
If you fly in for a gig (or travel by other means) you can't afford losing out on tickets. So you'll have to buy them in advance. I was once offered a ticket for £4 (50 kr)
for the second gig in Gothenburg (1990). But of course I had to take the train home the same night so I couldn't take the offer...

Quote
grzegorz67

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl

Quote
nobodyimportant
I presume this doesn't include the secondary sites that are owned by the promoters? [/cynical]

Doesn’t TicketBastards own Stubhub? They’re definitely milking both ends of the cow.

Stubhub is owned by eBay. Ticketmaster own both Seatwave and Getmein. To me, that just takes the piss. There is nothing to stop the Primary Seller from diverting tickets straight to their own subsidiary secondary seller without ever being put on sale through the Primary Seller.
Then as tickets are slow to shift, they quietly drip feed tickets back to the Primary seller. The whole event ticketing industry for music and sport is as bent as a Shepherd’s crook.

That's exactly what is happening, imo.
The so-called "touts" are just a smokescreen.
All these anti-tout measures merely serve to make life more difficult for the fans.

[www.bbc.com]

Don't buy tickets from Viagogo, minister warns

A minister has told consumers not to use Viagogo, one of the big four secondary ticket resellers.

Digital Minister Margot James told BBC Radio 5 live that if fans had to use a secondary site to buy tickets, "don't choose Viagogo - they are the worst".

Her warning comes after the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said Viagogo was breaking UK advertising rules by failing to make additional fees clear.

The Geneva-based firm was one of four subject to ASA action in March.

The advertising watchdog said Viagogo had agreed to make compulsory fees "sufficiently clear" by 26 May, but had failed to do so.

The other three big resellers - StubHub, Seatwave and GetMeIn - were also subject to the action against "drip pricing", where VAT, booking and delivery fees were added at the end of the booking process.

The ASA has received 23 complaints about Viagogo from groups including campaigners Fanfair Alliance, and concert promoters Festival Republic and Kilimanjaro Live.

Kilimanjaro Live is promoting Ed Sheeran's upcoming UK stadium tour.

Last week more than 10,000 tickets for that tour were cancelled, in an attempt to encourage fairer prices.

Stuart Galbraith, of Kilimanjaro Live, said he negotiated with GetMeIn, Seatwave and StubHub to ensure they would not resell tickets for the tour.

"The only agency which listed against our wishes and ignored all our correspondence was Viagogo," he said.

"We're achieving exactly what Ed wanted, which is 'we want you to come in and pay this [fixed] price'."

Reg Walker of the consultancy Iridium pointed out that Viagogo was no longer based in Britain and "seems to regard UK consumer protection legislation as a minor inconvenience".

"It was also claiming to be an official site on Google paid advertisements and that again by the Advertising Standard Authority was deemed to be a breach of the code, so there is a long history here of Viagogo being non-compliant," he told 5 live.

Last month the Competition and Markets Authority said Viagogo would face legal action after failing to make changes it had demanded.

Its rivals StubHub, GetMeIn and Seatwave had agreed to provide better information about the tickets sold on their sites.

They must warn if buyers risk being denied entry, the exact seats they will get and who was selling the tickets.

However, the consumer watchdog said Viagogo had failed to give the same undertakings.


Good on Sheeran, good on his manager, good also (albeit to a lesser extent) on Stubhub, GetMein, and Seatwave, and the way it is going and looking ....... Viagogo will soon be out of business, at least in UK !

Good riddance to it, and may the other three follow in its tracks (soon) !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

[www.ticketnews.com]

Quote
Dan
[www.ticketnews.com]

Interesting, it just goes to show exactly how much hypocrisy, bullshit, and outright subterfuge there is in this entire industry ........ it's f***ing riddled with it !!

<<< It’s unlikely that the exposure will amount to much, other than a brief bit of embarrassment over a common practice being made public. But it certainly highlights the ability of industry insiders to say one thing while doing another entirely while hiding behind the lack of transparency on ticket availability for the general public. >>>

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
Dan
[www.ticketnews.com]

Interesting, it just goes to show exactly how much hypocrisy, bullshit, and outright subterfuge there is in this entire industry ........ it's f***ing riddled with it !!

<<< It’s unlikely that the exposure will amount to much, other than a brief bit of embarrassment over a common practice being made public. But it certainly highlights the ability of industry insiders to say one thing while doing another entirely while hiding behind the lack of transparency on ticket availability for the general public. >>>

Correct. So artists and/or their management appear to have been touting their own tickets, even one now on a public crusade to combat the issue. Shockaroony.

There's also always a lot of hype to create a false impression of a sellout for future shows, sporadically drip feeding tickets in slowly and as as the clock runs down and make fans snapping them up think they've got themselves a deal. It's just far too easy to create a false impression of a sellout for an event months away and the naive lap up the hype.

Old Father Time calls their bluff every time. The clock runs down, thousands of good tickets miraculously become available, drop well below face value and the touts (scalpers for non Brits) shit their pants and take a loss. Schadenfreude at its best Nothing is, or ever will be 'sold out'.

Fifa file criminal complaint against Viagogo over World Cup ticket resales

Following "numerous complaints" from fans worldwide football's world governing body has taken action on the eve of the tournament in Russia

Fifa have filed a criminal complaint against ticket resale website Viagogo.

Following "numerous complaints" from fans worldwide football's world governing body has taken action on the eve of the World Cup in Russia.

They regard the issue with the utmost importance and say they want to protect fans and prevent unauthorised ticket resales at the tournament which kicks off next week

"As part of its efforts to protect the fans and prevent unauthorised ticket resales for the 2018 Fifa World Cup in Russia, Fifa filed a criminal complaint on 4 June 2018 based on a breach of the law on unfair competition against viagogo AG with the public prosecutor’s office in Geneva," an official statement read.

"Fifa took action after aligning with other stakeholders that have already filed criminal complaints against viagogo in Switzerland due to the company’s unfair business practices."

"Fifa’s ultimate objective in the fight against the secondary ticket market is to prioritise the safety and security of fans and enforce a fair 2018 Fifa World Cup ticketing pricing scheme."

Fifa also revealed they have worked alongside European counterparts Uefa as they look to stamp out the illegal reselling of tickets.

They added: "Recently, Fifa has held fruitful talks with Uefa in order to coordinate action against unauthorised platforms and established cooperation with the Fédération romande des consommateurs (FRC), the consumer protection association for French-speaking Switzerland, which is a strong advocate against ticket sales conducted through unauthorised sources."

They also confirmed that any tickets purchased from Viagogo will be cancelled as soon as they are identified.

[www.independent.co.uk]

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-05 13:58 by paulywaul.

FIFA complaining about unfair business practices and fans being ripped off.

The irony.

Yep, forget it. Everyone is ripped off. That is the system. It's called capitalism. Get used to it. In order for a few to get rich most people must accept being ripped off. Why not being ripped off with pride?

just seen on the news that fifa have reported viagogo for criminality in regard to resale tickets for this years world cup, they will cancel any ticket sold by viagogo which could have a negative effect on many who plan to go to the world cup and now wont get to see the game and might lose money.

The other negative result is if many tickets are not resold by fifa, many games could have empty seats, which affects the atmosphere inside the stadium. so it seems this corrupt and illegal practice by viagogo could ruin the world cup experience for many.

Im concerned as some of you here are that the same thing could happen with viagogo tickets for stones concerts and im worried that i dont get in or the organisers cancel viagogo tickets.

The world cup organisers have a system that matches ticket number to a fan id, which in turn has personal details and passport details, so in theory anyone who buys a ticket from a non legit source can not get into watch a match, but im not sure what the system is with concert promoters.

ive a got a ticket for standing at the warsaw gig, and a bit worried.

anyone else concerned after the latest news with this corrupt organisation.

thoughts please.

FIFA are probably a bit p*ssed off because viagogo did not give them a cut of resale tickets!