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Listening to Tokyo 1990 it sounds like Bill is fading. He sounded fantastic on the Steel Wheels record, but he seemed to be getting lost in the carnival of musicians they brought on board for the 89/90 tour. The previous one, 81/82 had been very stripped down compared to 89 and every tour after, excepting No Security (at least for the beginning of the concert).
I don't know about the Voodoo Lounge Tour. I haven't seen/heard a recording from then in a long time. I think it's out of print as a DVD. I will be fair and say that after hearing the first few cuts from the Voodoo Lounge CD, 'Love Is Strong' and 'You Got Me Rocking', I thought that they'd be okay without Bill. A lot of the rest of the album seemed kind of throwaway and the production a little too sharp, but I attributed that more to Mick and Keith.
I guess it was the Bridges tour when I first noticed Darryl wasn't cutting it. He totally blew the bass line to 'Anybody Seen My Baby'. Now this was supposed to be a world class bassist with Miles Davis pedigree and he couldn't cut what was a rather rudimentary run. I checked the Bridges album and saw that Darryl didn't play on the studio cut, and didn't play on a lot of Bridges. I wondered if they'd already lost confidence in him. It was becoming apparent that he wasn't going to be a Rolling Stone.
I've never been much aware of how the bass sounds in a concert because it tends to get blended into the background instrumentation. It wasn't until I started hearing Live Licks and listened to the Bridges DVD that I began to think something was missing. It was melody on the bass line. 'Rough Justice' had some nice bottom, but the empty spots where the Stones former bass player would do a nice fill or succinct, appropriate notes, was noticeably absent. The cerebral and emotional aspect of the Rolling Stones music was now aching but unfulfilled.
It was the release of 'Plundered My Soul' in the summer of 2010 that confirmed everything I'd been feeling. From the get go a rubbery, appealing bass encircled the music and the wobble was back. Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
I thought when they first brought in Darryl that he would be funky. After all the Rolling Stones are an English white boy group built on black music. Finally they would have an authentic black sound, from Chicago no less, land of Chess Records. It didn't happen. They had hired another jazzer. We didn't get a Bootsy or a James Jamerson.
My half-assed theory is that Darryl figured out he wasn't going to get to contribute much to their sound. He was always going to be a side man with no real input. Would never be paid the big bucks, although paid handsomely. He has no life long love of rock and roll. He didn't even become interested in it until he was almost 30. I hate to say it, but I think his attitude is f-it, I'll do as little as I have to. I'll make this bread and not sweat it. Period.
...Voice of Reason !! Chrz -
This doesn't make much sense. If Darryl wasn't good enough for the Babylon studio recordings, there's no way he would be asked to tour with them. Why on earth would Mick and Keith ask a guy they have no confidence in to play bass on a world tour attracting millions of fans? And, I don't think it was Darryll's "fault" that ABSMB didn't work live.
True.
In what way wasn't Bill a professional?
I meant in the true sense of the word. A skilled musician ready to work for his living on a regular basis. Not a part time millionair playing when the spirit sets in...
Everything we say here is an opinion. If we stopped every sentence to put in the IMHO disclaimer we'd never get a paragraph out. You don't have to be a successful musician, or a musician of any kind to know what your ears tell you, IMHO. Of course Darryl is 'cutting it' as a professional who shows up, punches the clock, goes plunkety plunk, gets a check with some nice zeroes, and goes home. If that's enough for you, good. I'd rather have your ears than be tortured, knowing that something intrinsic is missing from the sound you loved for so many years. To me, and this IMHO, the bass sound of the Rolling Stones, IMHO, is empty. IMHO.
Nice! I put the 2003 audio over the 1981 video and everything works just as good!!!
You are so lucky to have ears that tell you that. IMHO.
Not far away, right, it sounds similar, except for one thing: The Licks version doesn't SWING! The basic A-D structure of Whip is obviously too simple for Darryl, he does not even try to make something out of it, so he leans back and just plays along without any imagination and attitude.
Wow...thank you for that!
So, let me get this straight, Darryl Jones is too good for the Stones? Their music, which some of us are fond of, is so simplistic and childish, that Darryl is doing us a favor by hiding the light of his talent under a bushel basket? By adding nothing emotionally to the Stones music, he is keeping us from facing how utterly empty that music is and how wrong we've been for the past 50 years....and counting?
What a load of crap. It reminds me of the mid-70s when everybody wanted to noodle on bass all day like Stanley Clarke. It was cute for about a year, but no one listens to Jon Luc Ponty music now.
I supposed you're right. Why should Darryl try to approximate the embarrassingly juvenile bass lines that the no talent Bill Wyman thudded down in a feeble attempt to give the Rolling Stones music some back bone? We all know that rock and roll is crap and that's why Mick Taylor left in 1974, to go make meaningful jazz. And what meaningful music he never made.
I guess we're lucky to have a musician the caliber of Darryl Jones even bother to show up on stage and exchange secret grins with Keith. They both know that if Darryl wanted to, he could just swing like a mofo and leave all that Stones kindergarten music on the scorched earth below. He could pump up that old Stones crap so much that people would refuse to leave the stadium. But Darryl is kind and intentionally adds nothing to the music, for fear of overshadowing it. My poor, de classe ears, preferring what Bill Wyman played instead of what Darryl Jones doesn't play.
I'm sure Darry Jones is a nice guy. But he's not a rock and roller, and this is a rock and roll band. If it's so damn easy to play why doesn't he take a swing at it sometime? Rock and Roll is a hobby to him, a sideline. It's not in his bones. Rock and Roll is all emotion. Maybe him and Charlie can snicker together at this contemptible noise they're paid a fortune to recreate.
Always remember that rock never sought to fuse with jazz. It was jazz that came to rock and roll's door. Jimi Hendrix didn't ask to play with Miles, it was the other way around.
Great analysis, it's just that the conclusions you draw are rubbish imho. If anything, your Miles Evans Band example shows where Darryl's (musical/artistic) heart is located. Your concept that Darryl is simply too nice to overshadow his Stones "friends" may be a good excuse, but in the end it's the actual music that counts and nothing else, and the difference between those two "Whip" clips above is obvious, telling and exemplary.
I don't doubt for a second that Darryl is a fine bass player and a fine human being, but that is absolutely not the point. His heart is obviously not into these relatively simple Stones music/R&R structures, and he may be really "good friends" with them or not, but I bet that if it wasn't for the money, Darryl would not be playing this kind of music.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-08 15:50 by alimente.
It took many years before RW was made a full member. I believe the Stones did not want another full member, that would mean a 5 way split when it comes to the profits instead of four. I would like to think that Darryl is well paid and happy playing bass for the Stones. Why all the haters are hating, the Stones and Darryl seem to enjoy this arrangement and it works for them. That's all the really matters.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: October 29, 2013 18:15
OK OK OK
btw Darryl is touring now with a side project..more later..
btw Darryl is touring now with a side project..more later..
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: October 29, 2013 18:39
"Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good..."
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 29, 2013 22:32
Quote
laertisflash
"Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good..."
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
Listening to Tokyo 1990 it sounds like Bill is fading. He sounded fantastic on the Steel Wheels record, but he seemed to be getting lost in the carnival of musicians they brought on board for the 89/90 tour. The previous one, 81/82 had been very stripped down compared to 89 and every tour after, excepting No Security (at least for the beginning of the concert).
I don't know about the Voodoo Lounge Tour. I haven't seen/heard a recording from then in a long time. I think it's out of print as a DVD. I will be fair and say that after hearing the first few cuts from the Voodoo Lounge CD, 'Love Is Strong' and 'You Got Me Rocking', I thought that they'd be okay without Bill. A lot of the rest of the album seemed kind of throwaway and the production a little too sharp, but I attributed that more to Mick and Keith.
I guess it was the Bridges tour when I first noticed Darryl wasn't cutting it. He totally blew the bass line to 'Anybody Seen My Baby'. Now this was supposed to be a world class bassist with Miles Davis pedigree and he couldn't cut what was a rather rudimentary run. I checked the Bridges album and saw that Darryl didn't play on the studio cut, and didn't play on a lot of Bridges. I wondered if they'd already lost confidence in him. It was becoming apparent that he wasn't going to be a Rolling Stone.
I've never been much aware of how the bass sounds in a concert because it tends to get blended into the background instrumentation. It wasn't until I started hearing Live Licks and listened to the Bridges DVD that I began to think something was missing. It was melody on the bass line. 'Rough Justice' had some nice bottom, but the empty spots where the Stones former bass player would do a nice fill or succinct, appropriate notes, was noticeably absent. The cerebral and emotional aspect of the Rolling Stones music was now aching but unfulfilled.
It was the release of 'Plundered My Soul' in the summer of 2010 that confirmed everything I'd been feeling. From the get go a rubbery, appealing bass encircled the music and the wobble was back. Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
I thought when they first brought in Darryl that he would be funky. After all the Rolling Stones are an English white boy group built on black music. Finally they would have an authentic black sound, from Chicago no less, land of Chess Records. It didn't happen. They had hired another jazzer. We didn't get a Bootsy or a James Jamerson.
My half-assed theory is that Darryl figured out he wasn't going to get to contribute much to their sound. He was always going to be a side man with no real input. Would never be paid the big bucks, although paid handsomely. He has no life long love of rock and roll. He didn't even become interested in it until he was almost 30. I hate to say it, but I think his attitude is f-it, I'll do as little as I have to. I'll make this bread and not sweat it. Period.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
bam
()
Date: October 30, 2013 00:29
This kind of reminds me of the Who2's situation with Pino Palladino. Pete has said that he doesn't want to be overwhelmed by the bass as he was with Ox, so The Who has much less bottom and power than it used to. Palladino can obviously do more than he does with The Who, but was told to tone it down. I wonder whether Darryl was told to keep it simple, so that's what he does.
I agree that Bill's bass runs were more interesting; their absence is part of what has made the Vegas era what it has been.
I agree that Bill's bass runs were more interesting; their absence is part of what has made the Vegas era what it has been.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: October 31, 2013 11:40
I love how we're all such successful musicians that we can advise the Stones on what/how they should play
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
RoughJusticeOnYa
()
Date: October 31, 2013 11:51
Quote
bitusa2012
I love how we're all such successful musicians that we can advise the Stones on what/how they should play
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
...Voice of Reason !! Chrz -
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
The Worst.
()
Date: October 31, 2013 12:40
Quote
24FPSQuote
laertisflash
"Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good..."
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
Listening to Tokyo 1990 it sounds like Bill is fading. He sounded fantastic on the Steel Wheels record, but he seemed to be getting lost in the carnival of musicians they brought on board for the 89/90 tour. The previous one, 81/82 had been very stripped down compared to 89 and every tour after, excepting No Security (at least for the beginning of the concert).
I don't know about the Voodoo Lounge Tour. I haven't seen/heard a recording from then in a long time. I think it's out of print as a DVD. I will be fair and say that after hearing the first few cuts from the Voodoo Lounge CD, 'Love Is Strong' and 'You Got Me Rocking', I thought that they'd be okay without Bill. A lot of the rest of the album seemed kind of throwaway and the production a little too sharp, but I attributed that more to Mick and Keith.
I guess it was the Bridges tour when I first noticed Darryl wasn't cutting it. He totally blew the bass line to 'Anybody Seen My Baby'. Now this was supposed to be a world class bassist with Miles Davis pedigree and he couldn't cut what was a rather rudimentary run. I checked the Bridges album and saw that Darryl didn't play on the studio cut, and didn't play on a lot of Bridges. I wondered if they'd already lost confidence in him. It was becoming apparent that he wasn't going to be a Rolling Stone.
I've never been much aware of how the bass sounds in a concert because it tends to get blended into the background instrumentation. It wasn't until I started hearing Live Licks and listened to the Bridges DVD that I began to think something was missing. It was melody on the bass line. 'Rough Justice' had some nice bottom, but the empty spots where the Stones former bass player would do a nice fill or succinct, appropriate notes, was noticeably absent. The cerebral and emotional aspect of the Rolling Stones music was now aching but unfulfilled.
It was the release of 'Plundered My Soul' in the summer of 2010 that confirmed everything I'd been feeling. From the get go a rubbery, appealing bass encircled the music and the wobble was back. Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
I thought when they first brought in Darryl that he would be funky. After all the Rolling Stones are an English white boy group built on black music. Finally they would have an authentic black sound, from Chicago no less, land of Chess Records. It didn't happen. They had hired another jazzer. We didn't get a Bootsy or a James Jamerson.
My half-assed theory is that Darryl figured out he wasn't going to get to contribute much to their sound. He was always going to be a side man with no real input. Would never be paid the big bucks, although paid handsomely. He has no life long love of rock and roll. He didn't even become interested in it until he was almost 30. I hate to say it, but I think his attitude is f-it, I'll do as little as I have to. I'll make this bread and not sweat it. Period.
This doesn't make much sense. If Darryl wasn't good enough for the Babylon studio recordings, there's no way he would be asked to tour with them. Why on earth would Mick and Keith ask a guy they have no confidence in to play bass on a world tour attracting millions of fans? And, I don't think it was Darryll's "fault" that ABSMB didn't work live.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 31, 2013 13:05
<And, I don't think it was Darryll's "fault" that ABSMB didn't work live.>
Not all Darryl's fault. Mick was the one who struggled too much with that tune live.
Not all Darryl's fault. Mick was the one who struggled too much with that tune live.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
RoughJusticeOnYa
()
Date: October 31, 2013 13:49
Quote
24FPS
Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. [And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed] Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
True.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 31, 2013 15:02
The truth is actually the other way around. Darryl is the professional in the band. A hired one (which constitutes the word).
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 31, 2013 16:21
Quote
Stoneage
The truth is actually the other way around. Darryl is the professional in the band. A hired one (which constitutes the word).
In what way wasn't Bill a professional?
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 31, 2013 17:25
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Stoneage
The truth is actually the other way around. Darryl is the professional in the band. A hired one (which constitutes the word).
In what way wasn't Bill a professional?
I meant in the true sense of the word. A skilled musician ready to work for his living on a regular basis. Not a part time millionair playing when the spirit sets in...
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: October 31, 2013 17:43
I think that's being a bit creative with the definition of "professional."
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
andrewt
()
Date: October 31, 2013 20:24
Man, some great comments in this thread. 24FPS fired off a few beauties early on, but I've come to the thread too late to quote them now.
I think once more between all the comments we've crystalized the essence of the Daryll conundrum.
I think once more between all the comments we've crystalized the essence of the Daryll conundrum.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: October 31, 2013 20:55
why is it so difficult to spell 'Darryl'?
maybe that's the veritable quandary here for us..
maybe that's the veritable quandary here for us..
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 31, 2013 20:59
Quote
bitusa2012
I love how we're all such successful musicians that we can advise the Stones on what/how they should play
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
Everything we say here is an opinion. If we stopped every sentence to put in the IMHO disclaimer we'd never get a paragraph out. You don't have to be a successful musician, or a musician of any kind to know what your ears tell you, IMHO. Of course Darryl is 'cutting it' as a professional who shows up, punches the clock, goes plunkety plunk, gets a check with some nice zeroes, and goes home. If that's enough for you, good. I'd rather have your ears than be tortured, knowing that something intrinsic is missing from the sound you loved for so many years. To me, and this IMHO, the bass sound of the Rolling Stones, IMHO, is empty. IMHO.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Kirk
()
Date: October 31, 2013 21:27
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.
Nice! I put the 2003 audio over the 1981 video and everything works just as good!!!
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 31, 2013 21:54
Quote
KirkQuote
DandelionPowderman
Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.
Nice! I put the 2003 audio over the 1981 video and everything works just as good!!!
You are so lucky to have ears that tell you that. IMHO.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Kirk
()
Date: November 1, 2013 18:47
24FPS, you might be right! Of course, there is something missing in the latter version compared to the 1981 one. But the whole sonic attitude if this is a proper expression is not that far away. IMHO of course.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
rollman
()
Date: December 6, 2013 14:30
Plunk and Tinkle! hahaha, that's pretty good, hahaha, pretty funny, hahahaha
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
RockinJive
()
Date: December 6, 2013 22:32
As long as the perv Wyman doesn't play. I don't care who does.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
JerkyLittleGIJoe
()
Date: December 7, 2013 03:39
Quote
RoughJusticeOnYaQuote
24FPS
Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. [And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed] Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
True.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: December 7, 2013 23:07
Quote
Kirk
24FPS, you might be right! Of course, there is something missing in the latter version compared to the 1981 one. But the whole sonic attitude if this is a proper expression is not that far away. IMHO of course.
Not far away, right, it sounds similar, except for one thing: The Licks version doesn't SWING! The basic A-D structure of Whip is obviously too simple for Darryl, he does not even try to make something out of it, so he leans back and just plays along without any imagination and attitude.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
ZuluFunMix
()
Date: December 8, 2013 03:15
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: December 8, 2013 04:37
Quote
ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
Wow...thank you for that!
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: December 8, 2013 08:19
I don't think anyone's opinion of Darryl's playing makes difference to the Stones. It is obvious that the Stones like his bass playing. Charlie Watts really likes his playing and I believe he chose him to be Bill's replacement. I read in an interview for the o2 Annie shows that Keith said Darryl and Bill can decide what songs they want to step in and out of but Darryl's not going no where.
It puzzles me why so many folks on iorr feel the need to single him out for bashing. The Stones apparently love his playing. He is quiet, unassuming, and plays bass with the greatest rock and roll band in the world. So must really satisfy the Stones. What's the real issue here?
It puzzles me why so many folks on iorr feel the need to single him out for bashing. The Stones apparently love his playing. He is quiet, unassuming, and plays bass with the greatest rock and roll band in the world. So must really satisfy the Stones. What's the real issue here?
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: December 8, 2013 10:05
It's a strange thing though; you play with a band for two decades and still no one considers you a Rolling Stone. You're still just a hired hand.
He's been with the band almost twice as long as Brian Jones and Mick Taylor put together.
He's been with the band almost twice as long as Brian Jones and Mick Taylor put together.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: December 8, 2013 11:57
Quote
ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
So, let me get this straight, Darryl Jones is too good for the Stones? Their music, which some of us are fond of, is so simplistic and childish, that Darryl is doing us a favor by hiding the light of his talent under a bushel basket? By adding nothing emotionally to the Stones music, he is keeping us from facing how utterly empty that music is and how wrong we've been for the past 50 years....and counting?
What a load of crap. It reminds me of the mid-70s when everybody wanted to noodle on bass all day like Stanley Clarke. It was cute for about a year, but no one listens to Jon Luc Ponty music now.
I supposed you're right. Why should Darryl try to approximate the embarrassingly juvenile bass lines that the no talent Bill Wyman thudded down in a feeble attempt to give the Rolling Stones music some back bone? We all know that rock and roll is crap and that's why Mick Taylor left in 1974, to go make meaningful jazz. And what meaningful music he never made.
I guess we're lucky to have a musician the caliber of Darryl Jones even bother to show up on stage and exchange secret grins with Keith. They both know that if Darryl wanted to, he could just swing like a mofo and leave all that Stones kindergarten music on the scorched earth below. He could pump up that old Stones crap so much that people would refuse to leave the stadium. But Darryl is kind and intentionally adds nothing to the music, for fear of overshadowing it. My poor, de classe ears, preferring what Bill Wyman played instead of what Darryl Jones doesn't play.
I'm sure Darry Jones is a nice guy. But he's not a rock and roller, and this is a rock and roll band. If it's so damn easy to play why doesn't he take a swing at it sometime? Rock and Roll is a hobby to him, a sideline. It's not in his bones. Rock and Roll is all emotion. Maybe him and Charlie can snicker together at this contemptible noise they're paid a fortune to recreate.
Always remember that rock never sought to fuse with jazz. It was jazz that came to rock and roll's door. Jimi Hendrix didn't ask to play with Miles, it was the other way around.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: December 8, 2013 14:38
Quote
ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
Great analysis, it's just that the conclusions you draw are rubbish imho. If anything, your Miles Evans Band example shows where Darryl's (musical/artistic) heart is located. Your concept that Darryl is simply too nice to overshadow his Stones "friends" may be a good excuse, but in the end it's the actual music that counts and nothing else, and the difference between those two "Whip" clips above is obvious, telling and exemplary.
I don't doubt for a second that Darryl is a fine bass player and a fine human being, but that is absolutely not the point. His heart is obviously not into these relatively simple Stones music/R&R structures, and he may be really "good friends" with them or not, but I bet that if it wasn't for the money, Darryl would not be playing this kind of music.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-08 15:50 by alimente.
Re: DARRYLL JONES: "The Stones are true professionals"
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: December 8, 2013 17:29
Quote
Stoneage
It's a strange thing though; you play with a band for two decades and still no one considers you a Rolling Stone. You're still just a hired hand.
He's been with the band almost twice as long as Brian Jones and Mick Taylor put together.
It took many years before RW was made a full member. I believe the Stones did not want another full member, that would mean a 5 way split when it comes to the profits instead of four. I would like to think that Darryl is well paid and happy playing bass for the Stones. Why all the haters are hating, the Stones and Darryl seem to enjoy this arrangement and it works for them. That's all the really matters.
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