In the argentinean newspaper "Clarin" (obviously in spanish)



http://www.clarin.com/espectaculos/musica/Stones-profesionales-verdad_0_1018698356.html

Acompaño a los Stones en cada una de sus giras y ahora estamos en un momento de descanso. Pero soy positivo, creo que el año que viene van a recibir buenas noticias de parte nuestra. Siempre es un placer venir a la Argentina.

I'm with the Stones in every tour they made, and now we're in a relaxation time. But i'm positive, I believe next year you all will recieve good new from us. It's always a pleasure going to Argentina.

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"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-28 03:20 by dandelion1967.

That seems like as close to a confirmation that a tour is coming without actual dates and cities, doesn't it?

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6s7s9s
That seems like as close to a confirmation that a tour is coming without actual dates and cities, doesn't it?

If you're into wishful thinking I suppose it is.

What does it mean, 'The Stones are true professionals'? Is that a good thing? They go out every night and play the same songs every night, attempting to play them as close as possible to their originals. That sounds like a freakin' job, instead of an artistic triumph. In that sense Darryl is a true professional then, plunking away at his bass, meandering at the bottom, never making an emotional connection.

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6s7s9s
That seems like as close to a confirmation that a tour is coming without actual dates and cities, doesn't it?

Or its as close to a firing as you can get.

Nah, I'm just joking. It does sound like they have something prepared but you never know with the Stones. And Darryll is just as much a professional as the Stones. He does an admirable and thankless job on bass. Listen, we just can't have Bill, and if it wasn't Darayll it would be someone else, and he's proven to be very good so far. I never understood the complaints against him, aside from people just being sore about Bill.

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RollingFreak

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6s7s9s
That seems like as close to a confirmation that a tour is coming without actual dates and cities, doesn't it?

Or its as close to a firing as you can get.

Nah, I'm just joking. It does sound like they have something prepared but you never know with the Stones. And Darryll is just as much a professional as the Stones. He does an admirable and thankless job on bass. Listen, we just can't have Bill, and if it wasn't Darayll it would be someone else, and he's proven to be very good so far. I never understood the complaints against him, aside from people just being sore about Bill.

I don't want him to be Bill, I just want him to be memorable. It seems that playing for the Rolling Stones should require a higher level of emotional playing. And I can't figure out if Darryl purposely will not play Bill's lines. Those lines are important to certain songs. And it's not like Darryl replaces those lines with something where you go, "Oh, interesting."

What's the word? There is nothing SINGULAR about the way Darryl Jones plays bass for the Stones. Darryl has been with them for 20 years in a few months. Never do I find myself listening to a Darryl bass line on a Stones song and find it interesting. You keep waiting for the punch and it never comes. What the hell did he contribute to Doom & Gloom that Ronnie or anyone hanging around the studio couldn't have done?

Where's the friggin' soul in this guy? Keith acts like him and Darryl are having a funky old time up there and yet I hear nothing that denotes anything funky is going on. It's pedestrian is what it is. You could replace Darryl tomorrow and no one would notice there was anything missing from the sound. But he's a true professional who shows up on time, punches the clock and doesn't make waves. Good for him. Him and Chuck should form a duet, Plunk and Tinkle.

Mick T. didn't / doesn't play like Brian, Ronnie doesn't play like Brian or Mick T. - that's life. I guess when Charlie chose to have Darryll, it ain't that bad either.

I have a special respect for Darryl from the time he played with Miles. Any musician who once played in a Miles band is in a different league - because he knew how to choose the best.

Of course we're talking the stones here, not jazz. But for the songs they have been releasing in the last years, I don't care who plays the bass.

My current favorite bass player is Ida Nielsen

Darryl plays several of Bill's lines. Miss You, ER and SMU come to mind.

However, he adds new lines as well, making what's simple and effective more complex and perhaps less emotional. That's where it gets too much for me sometimes.

But that's me...

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DandelionPowderman
Darryl plays several of Bill's lines. Miss You, ER and SMU come to mind.

However, he adds new lines as well, making what's simple and effective more complex and perhaps less emotional. That's where it gets too much for me sometimes.

But that's me...

It sounds like you're defining the nature of jazz there, whereas Bill's rock-sense of "giving the bottom some balls" as he puts it resulted in soul, in feel.

The difference between detached jazz complexity and instinctive, simplified rock feel is the problem some have with Darryl's playing.

It's a good thing the decision for Mick Taylor's replacement wasn't left up to Charlie as well, otherwise we'd have had a jazz-fusion outfit by now.

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
Darryl plays several of Bill's lines. Miss You, ER and SMU come to mind.

However, he adds new lines as well, making what's simple and effective more complex and perhaps less emotional. That's where it gets too much for me sometimes.

But that's me...

It sounds like you're defining the nature of jazz there, whereas Bill's rock-sense of "giving the bottom some balls" as he puts it resulted in soul, in feel.

The difference between detached jazz complexity and instinctive, simplified rock feel is the problem some have with Darryl's playing.

It's a good thing the decision for Mick Taylor's replacement wasn't left up to Charlie as well, otherwise we'd have had a jazz-fusion outfit by now.

Partly, but there was a lot of jazz in Bill's approach as well. There wouldn't have been a 50s rockabilly/r&b-style bass players without the walking bass, which is heavily inspired by jazz.

It's a free world and everybody is allowed to express an opinion. In particular with regard to what is good and what is bad in music, a TOTALLY subjective topic.

So if someone doesn't like dj's bass playing, fair enough. For what matters, I like it a lot.

That said,

1) as a matter of fact Dj plays all "bill original lines". Notes are objective. Sure, Dj adds fills, plays with a different tone and feel, is more heavy, is more clean, is more present, but please name one song where he does not play the original line (or an interpretation of the original line)

2) I've never read here that the winos bass stinks. Or the bass with the new barbarians. Yet nothing there even fairly remembers bill's style.

3) I prefer dj's contribution to the current stones, rather than what he did with Davis.

C

In any company, there are some people who have always the same opinion as their boss.

I don't think the problem with Darryl is not his jazz background per se, but more like the music The Stones does is not a big or any challange for him. Thereby the results are like much like a much more capable player forcing to use a mnimal amount of his capacity, and ending up like a pure faceless sesson player, with no much feeling or personal touch in it. Wheras Bill was there with all he knew and put the best out of him in every track he did with the Stones, which was similar with the rest of them (Keith and Charlie especially). They played as well as they can in any given circumstances.

Which I think is a part of the old magic of the Stones, making them so 'wild' and 'unpredicatable', always in danger to fell apart. Probably Taylor had sometimes same problems as Darryl, but especially in his last days he probably just took his spot without much asking to keep himself more excited... But I need to say Ronnie Wood, starting from 1989, have sometimes suffered from the same problem, and especially now, when he clearly is the best available Stones guitarist, he needs to cool it down - that's the impression I got of him when watching and listening him in Hyde Park. He surely does his part well, but I think he could be used much more. But there are bigger reasons for him to not shine more, and he never take "Taylorian" freedoms...

But what goes Darryl Jones, I think he is a best possible guy to the role they need, and thereby an integral part of their sound these days. They surely knew what they got when chose him, which is to say, they wanted to sound like that. Blaming Daryll for 'destroying' their sound - or something similar to the effect - is as pointless as blaming Chuck. They are just outfront symptoms, the real reasons and causes lie much deeper.

- Doxa

Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.











Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-28 10:54 by DandelionPowderman.

Darryl Jones has grown on me as a player and a professional sideman, he has done a fantastic job over these past 20 years.Despite his technical prowess his feel & sound do not come close to Bill's imo.

Nevertheless, credit where credit is due he has stepped up to the plate

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Rollin92
Darryl Jones has grown on me as a player and a professional sideman, he has done a fantastic job over these past 20 years.Despite his technical prowess his feel & sound do not come close to Bill's imo.

Nevertheless, credit where credit is due he has stepped up to the plate

This tour has been Darryl's (by far) best tour, imo.

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DandelionPowderman
Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.

Yes, definitely. Bill's playing on that live track reminds me of the bass he played in the original recording of I Wanna Be Your Man and some of those other mid-60s tracks where that type of "dancing" bass made those records so animated.

Darryl keeps things more grounded by comparison.

Bill had a more melodic approach, and his penchant for melody and "flight" in sliding and bouncing from note to note could result in an exciting, emotive effect, whereas Darryl is one for precision, getting the job done but frankly with a less creative approach than Bill.

I have no negative opinion of Darryl's playing--in fact, and this may be indicative of the lack of emotional effect in his playing, I have no opinion at all of his playing. He's just there filling a role, and someone has to be there to fill that role, and none of his detractors have named another bass player who would more aptly fill the gap left by Wyman's absence.

Bill was perfect for the analog era of The Stones--creativity and warmth--whereas Darryl seems to suit the digital era of the band--a perfectly competent precision for the less animated slickness the modern era produces, where musical effect comes from computerized precision and compression rather than the warmth and bounce of creative animation.

It's Analog Bill versus Digital Darryl--which do you prefer?

<Darryl keeps things more grounded by comparison.>

There is a reason for this, and that's simply that the rhythm guitars are way more unstable on the Licks tour version.

In 1981 Keith and Ronnie were on the top of their game, and Bill could add to the weaving guitars, sort of bringing in the third colour in the weave (sorry, couldn't resist it ).

On the 2003 version, one never knows what Keith will do next, and having a locked down, more note-oriented bass will secure the song from falling apart.

Two different approaches. It might be that Bill thought his walking bass would save the song anyhow, though

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24FPS
What does it mean, 'The Stones are true professionals'? Is that a good thing? They go out every night and play the same songs every night, attempting to play them as close as possible to their originals. That sounds like a freakin' job, instead of an artistic triumph. In that sense Darryl is a true professional then, plunking away at his bass, meandering at the bottom, never making an emotional connection.

Harsh but true. But the Stones are true professionals in the way they have an organized and disciplined machine when they are out touring. They are properly rehearsed and show up for their engagements. They have hotels and transportation vans all lined up. The equipment is moved on time to the next gig. They employ people to take of the guitars and electronics. You are well aware how many people they employ when out on tour.

The Stones are very professional this way. In his music career Darryl has been in situations that are a shambles where he didn't get paid and so on. So Darryl appreciates the contrast and why he says the Stones are true professionals.

<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

No, they haven't. A couple of weeks effective rehearsals each time hardly make decades of rehearsing - unless you count stage time as rehearsals

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

No, they haven't. A couple of weeks effective rehearsals each time hardly make decades of rehearsing - unless you count stage time as rehearsals

The amateurs waste time in rehearsing, total pros do it in the front of audience... Yeah, with that stage experience they have of performing the same list, they don't need actual rehearsal much but more that of recollection and getting the old routines back. Their over-all standard is rather low, since no need for any re-invention in arrangements and things like that, and to gain that level, one actually doesn't need much work (listening the old records, and Chuck helps there if needed). Their songs are not rocket science exactly, and all of them know the most of the songs in their dreams... but they, of course, have that chemistry by nature (or gained by decades long experience), the x-factor not many has...

I actually agree with your initial claim, since due to nature of their sound and routines, they do not need much rehearsal in the proper sense of the word... And it is indeed a part of their charm...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-28 14:14 by Doxa.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

No, they haven't. A couple of weeks effective rehearsals each time hardly make decades of rehearsing - unless you count stage time as rehearsals

Sometimes 2 gigs are more effective than 10 rehearsals...

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svt22

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

No, they haven't. A couple of weeks effective rehearsals each time hardly make decades of rehearsing - unless you count stage time as rehearsals

Sometimes 2 gigs are more effective than 10 rehearsals...

Absolutely. It just too darn sad for the guinea pig-audience

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DandelionPowderman

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svt22

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

Not exactly true. They have rehearsed that show and set list of theirs decades now...

- Doxa

No, they haven't. A couple of weeks effective rehearsals each time hardly make decades of rehearsing - unless you count stage time as rehearsals

Sometimes 2 gigs are more effective than 10 rehearsals...

Absolutely. It just too darn sad for the guinea pig-audience

It's all in the game. I always make sure to find the emergency exit in the first place.

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

This is the Stones genious!!!!! They have rehearsed that sloppy unrehearsed sound so well they even have a StonesPhile like you fooled!! Say -- "Thanks Mick!!" He is the mastermind behind this calculated anarchy

So Darryl and Ronnie think very positive about touring next year.
But it would be great if Mick or Keith themselves would tell something about that.