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triceratops

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DandelionPowderman
<They are properly rehearsed>

They are probably the most un-rehearsed band among the bands in the top league worldwide. Always have been, and it's part of their charm

This is the Stones genious!!!!! They have rehearsed that sloppy unrehearsed sound so well they even have a StonesPhile like you fooled!! Say -- "Thanks Mick!!" He is the mastermind behind this calculated anarchy

I'm not so sure about Mick being the one to thank for this

all you need to remember is -
the show went on and Darryl was Charlie's choice to replace Bill so the show could go on..

Darryl gets the Stones. wouldn't be there if he didn't..

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mtaylor
Mick T. didn't / doesn't play like Brian, Ronnie doesn't play like Brian or Mick T. - that's life. I guess when Charlie chose to have Darryll, it ain't that bad either.

Yes, but you could argue that Mick T, Brian and Ronnie all contributed something memorable to the sound of the Stones. Darryl hasn't. And since when did Charles Robert Watts become an expert on rock and roll bass players? He admits he didn't even know what Bill was playing until he went back with Darryl and listened to the records. Charlie was quite surprised how clever Bill was. Bill was five feet from him for 30 years!

"It ain't that bad either". Great. What a perfect summation of Darryl Jones' bass playing with the Rolling Stones. It ain't good. But it ain't bad.

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DandelionPowderman

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
Darryl plays several of Bill's lines. Miss You, ER and SMU come to mind.

However, he adds new lines as well, making what's simple and effective more complex and perhaps less emotional. That's where it gets too much for me sometimes.

But that's me...

It sounds like you're defining the nature of jazz there, whereas Bill's rock-sense of "giving the bottom some balls" as he puts it resulted in soul, in feel.

The difference between detached jazz complexity and instinctive, simplified rock feel is the problem some have with Darryl's playing.

It's a good thing the decision for Mick Taylor's replacement wasn't left up to Charlie as well, otherwise we'd have had a jazz-fusion outfit by now.

Partly, but there was a lot of jazz in Bill's approach as well. There wouldn't have been a 50s rockabilly/r&b-style bass players without the walking bass, which is heavily inspired by jazz.

one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

Darryll is simply not a rock and roll bassist and never will be although he has played with The Stones for more than two decades now (twice as long as Taylor and Jones put together).
Rock and roll is not his cup of tea. You might even say that he is "to good" for rock and roll.

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Stoneage
Darryll is simply not a rock and roll bassist and never will be although he has played with The Stones for more than two decades now (twice as long as Taylor and Jones put together).
Rock and roll is not his cup of tea. You might even say that he is "to good" for rock and roll.

one thing about the Stones that its good to remember is that while they get called the greatest rock and roll band in the world by many, the way the band goes about music might actually be more jazz- like and Keith has said this many times. So has Don Was. and again, its a paradox but Charlie isn't a rock and roll drummer..

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

yeah, a little demeaning. this guy may not be Bill but he's a good bass player, at least good enough for Miles.

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treaclefingers

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

yeah, a little demeaning. this guy may not be Bill but he's a good bass player, at least good enough for Miles.

It's still a good analogy. Not meant to be personal, or demeaning of Darryl as a person. Yes, he's good enough for Miles. Now how in the hell does that mean anything in the world of rock and roll? Rock and roll and jazz are most often diametrically opposed. Rock is a hot music, jazz a cool music (and yes, there are always exceptions). Rock is about feeling, not technical proficiency. Rock is gospel shouting, gut music. Jazz is from the head.

Terrifying, one of the Stones' most jazzy cuts, is a standout track because of the rock elements. Rock has to swing. There's no swing in the last 20 Rolling Stone years. And is there anything jazzier than Bill/Brian & Charlie on the studio version of Under My Thumb? Still, it's Mick's rock singing that creates the excitement.

Face it, the team of Wyman & Watts is gone forever, along with that sound, the very backbone of the group. The current incarnation of the Rolling Stones either don't know, or don't care about getting the bass right. Bass used to mean something to a Rolling Stones song, now it's just a hole that has to be plugged.

I don't mean to be grouchy but I never thought the Rolling Stones sound would become as generic and repetitive as is has become. I need that Sticky Fingers Reissue so I can have some 'new' Rolling Stones.

Stanley Clarke is regarded as one of the best but I didn't care for him with the New Barbarians. I feel the same with Darryll. He holds his own but I've heard many rock bass players, professional as well as amateur, who would be a much better fit for the Stones. They obviously love him so it's a moot point (as is complaining about Chuck's tinkle plinking) at this stage of the game. That said, I do like the way he holds the bottom for the Midnight Rambler jam and also the way he hangs on the root note in Jumping Jack Flash (as opposed to playing the riff). He tries to evoke Ronnie's licks in Emotional Rescue but it feels forced to me. I cringe at his playing in songs like The Last Time, which require a deft, subtle approach.

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

yeah, a little demeaning. this guy may not be Bill but he's a good bass player, at least good enough for Miles.

It's still a good analogy. Not meant to be personal, or demeaning of Darryl as a person. Yes, he's good enough for Miles. Now how in the hell does that mean anything in the world of rock and roll? Rock and roll and jazz are most often diametrically opposed. Rock is a hot music, jazz a cool music (and yes, there are always exceptions). Rock is about feeling, not technical proficiency. Rock is gospel shouting, gut music. Jazz is from the head.

Terrifying, one of the Stones' most jazzy cuts, is a standout track because of the rock elements. Rock has to swing. There's no swing in the last 20 Rolling Stone years. And is there anything jazzier than Bill/Brian & Charlie on the studio version of Under My Thumb? Still, it's Mick's rock singing that creates the excitement.

Face it, the team of Wyman & Watts is gone forever, along with that sound, the very backbone of the group. The current incarnation of the Rolling Stones either don't know, or don't care about getting the bass right. Bass used to mean something to a Rolling Stones song, now it's just a hole that has to be plugged.

I don't mean to be grouchy but I never thought the Rolling Stones sound would become as generic and repetitive as is has become. I need that Sticky Fingers Reissue so I can have some 'new' Rolling Stones.

Art Blakey
Lee Morgan
Hank Mobley
Dexter Gordon
Lou Donaldson
Horace Silver
Grant Green
John Scofield
(just to name a few..)

have a listen to some cuts by any of them, its all about feeling..technical proficiency too, yes you do have to be able to play, even in the Stones..

those guys made some of the hottest music on record..

you seem to need for rock to be this, and jazz to be that..

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

yeah, a little demeaning. this guy may not be Bill but he's a good bass player, at least good enough for Miles.

It's still a good analogy. Not meant to be personal, or demeaning of Darryl as a person. Yes, he's good enough for Miles. Now how in the hell does that mean anything in the world of rock and roll? Rock and roll and jazz are most often diametrically opposed. Rock is a hot music, jazz a cool music (and yes, there are always exceptions). Rock is about feeling, not technical proficiency. Rock is gospel shouting, gut music. Jazz is from the head.

Terrifying, one of the Stones' most jazzy cuts, is a standout track because of the rock elements. Rock has to swing. There's no swing in the last 20 Rolling Stone years. And is there anything jazzier than Bill/Brian & Charlie on the studio version of Under My Thumb? Still, it's Mick's rock singing that creates the excitement.

Face it, the team of Wyman & Watts is gone forever, along with that sound, the very backbone of the group. The current incarnation of the Rolling Stones either don't know, or don't care about getting the bass right. Bass used to mean something to a Rolling Stones song, now it's just a hole that has to be plugged.

I don't mean to be grouchy but I never thought the Rolling Stones sound would become as generic and repetitive as is has become. I need that Sticky Fingers Reissue so I can have some 'new' Rolling Stones.

Art Blakey
Lee Morgan
Hank Mobley
Dexter Gordon
Lou Donaldson
Horace Silver
Grant Green
John Scofield
(just to name a few..)

have a listen to some cuts by any of them, its all about feeling..technical proficiency too, yes you do have to be able to play, even in the Stones..

those guys made some of the hottest music on record..

you seem to need for rock to be this, and jazz to be that..

I said there are exceptions. But let's take your point and say that Blakey, et al, are 'hot' jazz musicians. Well, somehow the Rolling Stones got a 'cool' one, the kind that noodles to nowhere. Noticed you didn't pick any jazz bass players as examples. Obviously Jaco and Stanley aren't going to stand out as 'hot'.

Actually Jazz used to a lot hotter in the days of Bix and Louis. It was the 1970s that pretty much reduced jazz to exercises in musical masturbation. (And there are always exceptions).

This is who Keith wanted to try out when Bill started intimating he was leaving in the early 80s. Ladies and Gentlemen, bassist Busta Cherry Jones.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-28 22:33 by 24FPS.

so they're idiots for picking and staying with a bassist who 'noodles to nowhere'..?

..when has Darryl done that? it sounds as if you mean a long rambling solo of some sort..? and having any bass solo spot at all in the Stones is kind of a novelty .. some of what he played on 'Stray Cat Blues'..maybe you have a point there..

he just supports what they want to do musically.
hey they weren't going to have a slap / pop type player. it just wouldn't fit...agree with what you said about '70's 'jazz'..

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24FPS

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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duke richardson

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24FPS

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duke richardson
one could say that his time with the Stones speaks well of Darryl..

a team player not a Bill copyist..no bass player could be..

they all like Darryl. I bet Bill likes Darryl..

I like my Labrador retriever. Everybody likes my Labrador retriever, but I wouldn't want him playing bass with my favorite rock and roll band.

long time since I've read a more unlikely comparison..

yeah, a little demeaning. this guy may not be Bill but he's a good bass player, at least good enough for Miles.

It's still a good analogy. Not meant to be personal, or demeaning of Darryl as a person. Yes, he's good enough for Miles. Now how in the hell does that mean anything in the world of rock and roll? Rock and roll and jazz are most often diametrically opposed. Rock is a hot music, jazz a cool music (and yes, there are always exceptions). Rock is about feeling, not technical proficiency. Rock is gospel shouting, gut music. Jazz is from the head.

Terrifying, one of the Stones' most jazzy cuts, is a standout track because of the rock elements. Rock has to swing. There's no swing in the last 20 Rolling Stone years. And is there anything jazzier than Bill/Brian & Charlie on the studio version of Under My Thumb? Still, it's Mick's rock singing that creates the excitement.

Face it, the team of Wyman & Watts is gone forever, along with that sound, the very backbone of the group. The current incarnation of the Rolling Stones either don't know, or don't care about getting the bass right. Bass used to mean something to a Rolling Stones song, now it's just a hole that has to be plugged.

I don't mean to be grouchy but I never thought the Rolling Stones sound would become as generic and repetitive as is has become. I need that Sticky Fingers Reissue so I can have some 'new' Rolling Stones.

Art Blakey
Lee Morgan
Hank Mobley
Dexter Gordon
Lou Donaldson
Horace Silver
Grant Green
John Scofield
(just to name a few..)

have a listen to some cuts by any of them, its all about feeling..technical proficiency too, yes you do have to be able to play, even in the Stones..

those guys made some of the hottest music on record..

you seem to need for rock to be this, and jazz to be that..

I said there are exceptions. But let's take your point and say that Blakey, et al, are 'hot' jazz musicians. Well, somehow the Rolling Stones got a 'cool' one, the kind that noodles to nowhere. Noticed you didn't pick any jazz bass players as examples. Obviously Jaco and Stanley aren't going to stand out as 'hot'.

Actually Jazz used to a lot hotter in the days of Bix and Louis. It was the 1970s that pretty much reduced jazz to exercises in musical masturbation. (And there are always exceptions).

This is who Keith wanted to try out when Bill started intimating he was leaving in the early 80s. Ladies and Gentlemen, bassist Busta Cherry Jones.

[www.youtube.com]

OK, let's take your point & say Darryl isn't 'hot'.

For all the valid concerns there are out there about the band the 'bass issue' is is WAY DOWN on the priority list to fix.

It's like saying the priority is to wash your car after it's been in an accident. "Yeah, it's not driveable...how the hell are we going to get it to the car wash!".

PLUS, they've picked him, Charlie wanted him, they like him. Not likely they're going to change him out...the point is therefore moot.

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treaclefingers
PLUS, they've picked him, Charlie wanted him, they like him. Not likely they're going to change him out...the point is therefore moot.

Well hell, if we're not going to discuss things that are out of our control, then we might as well shut this puppy down. If we can't bitch and carp there's nowhere to go.

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24FPS

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treaclefingers
PLUS, they've picked him, Charlie wanted him, they like him. Not likely they're going to change him out...the point is therefore moot.

Well hell, if we're not going to discuss things that are out of our control, then we might as well shut this puppy down. If we can't bitch and carp there's nowhere to go.

Not at all! Taylor is STILL better than Wood! Sorry, has that been discussed already?

24FPS, yes, of course, I prefer Bill but it's THEIR band, and if Charlie's happy, that's how it is.

But why I'm posting is to say that anyone who uses the word "carp" must be a wonderful person! I am going to find reasons to use that word more often.

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Stonesfan16
So Darryl and Ronnie think very positive about touring next year.
But it would be great if Mick or Keith themselves would tell something about that.

They have not toured more this year because the money is not there. The touring machine was all revved up and ready to go. But the Stones did not continue after say a 2 month rest. Why? Because Mick and the others did not like what they would be earning. They figure might as well stay at home.

I cannot see how these numbers will look any better in 2014

(my opinion of course)

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stonesrule
24FPS, yes, of course, I prefer Bill but it's THEIR band, and if Charlie's happy, that's how it is.

But why I'm posting is to say that anyone who uses the word "carp" must be a wonderful person! I am going to find reasons to use that word more often.

It's one of those words you don't hear anymore. Like the female names Peggy or Debbie. Or the saying 'what a pain in the patoot'. Think about the Stones' song 'Off The Hook'. Older fans don't think twice, but a younger fan wouldn't know what an off the hook phone is. Or understand 'I got an engaged tone'.

Er??? Wasn't it Keith that said Charlie picked Darryyll? Must be a reason why this is the man they chose to replace Bill I quess? I just don't know what it is.

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24FPS

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treaclefingers
PLUS, they've picked him, Charlie wanted him, they like him. Not likely they're going to change him out...the point is therefore moot.

Well hell, if we're not going to discuss things that are out of our control, then we might as well shut this puppy down. If we can't bitch and carp there's nowhere to go.

my apologies...I was simply bitching about the carping, or something

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RollingFreak
And Darryll is just as much a professional as the Stones. He does an admirable and thankless job on bass. Listen, we just can't have Bill, and if it wasn't Darayll it would be someone else, and he's proven to be very good so far. I never understood the complaints against him, aside from people just being sore about Bill.

Now that's a good balanced attitude, I agree with you. I don't have anything intelligent to add btw.

I' m with Denny. Yes, Darryll does an admirable job. In addition, i don't think that Bill is technically better than him. Bill is great but not unreplaced. I think the main reason why there is some "Bill- mania" here is nostalgia. Yes, nostalgia coming from fans who usually criticize the Stones for "being a nostalgia act". Just my opinion.

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24FPS
I don't want him to be Bill, I just want him to be memorable. It seems that playing for the Rolling Stones should require a higher level of emotional playing. And I can't figure out if Darryl purposely will not play Bill's lines. Those lines are important to certain songs. And it's not like Darryl replaces those lines with something where you go, "Oh, interesting."

What's the word? There is nothing SINGULAR about the way Darryl Jones plays bass for the Stones. Darryl has been with them for 20 years in a few months. Never do I find myself listening to a Darryl bass line on a Stones song and find it interesting. You keep waiting for the punch and it never comes. What the hell did he contribute to Doom & Gloom that Ronnie or anyone hanging around the studio couldn't have done?

Where's the friggin' soul in this guy? Keith acts like him and Darryl are having a funky old time up there and yet I hear nothing that denotes anything funky is going on. It's pedestrian is what it is. You could replace Darryl tomorrow and no one would notice there was anything missing from the sound. But he's a true professional who shows up on time, punches the clock and doesn't make waves. Good for him. Him and Chuck should form a duet, Plunk and Tinkle.

Very well put, I guess it could also be said that Darryl's come up with zero memorable bass line over the past 20 years...arguably such bass lines would be "Flip the Switch" and that's Jeff Sarli and "Out of Control" and that's Danny Saber.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse

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24FPS
I don't want him to be Bill, I just want him to be memorable. It seems that playing for the Rolling Stones should require a higher level of emotional playing. And I can't figure out if Darryl purposely will not play Bill's lines. Those lines are important to certain songs. And it's not like Darryl replaces those lines with something where you go, "Oh, interesting."

What's the word? There is nothing SINGULAR about the way Darryl Jones plays bass for the Stones. Darryl has been with them for 20 years in a few months. Never do I find myself listening to a Darryl bass line on a Stones song and find it interesting. You keep waiting for the punch and it never comes. What the hell did he contribute to Doom & Gloom that Ronnie or anyone hanging around the studio couldn't have done?

Where's the friggin' soul in this guy? Keith acts like him and Darryl are having a funky old time up there and yet I hear nothing that denotes anything funky is going on. It's pedestrian is what it is. You could replace Darryl tomorrow and no one would notice there was anything missing from the sound. But he's a true professional who shows up on time, punches the clock and doesn't make waves. Good for him. Him and Chuck should form a duet, Plunk and Tinkle.

Very well put, I guess it could also be said that Darryl's come up with zero memorable bass line over the past 20 years...arguably such bass lines would be "Flip the Switch" and that's Jeff Sarli and "Out of Control" and that's Danny Saber.

He has a beautiful bassline on Ruby Tuesday on the upcoming DVD, though

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Denny

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RollingFreak
And Darryll is just as much a professional as the Stones. He does an admirable and thankless job on bass. Listen, we just can't have Bill, and if it wasn't Darayll it would be someone else, and he's proven to be very good so far. I never understood the complaints against him, aside from people just being sore about Bill.

Now that's a good balanced attitude, I agree with you. I don't have anything intelligent to add btw.

Neither do I...but yes, Darryll's only crime is not being Bill.

It's Darryl not Darryll

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laertisflash
I' m with Denny. Yes, Darryll does an admirable job. In addition, i don't think that Bill is technically better than him. Bill is great but not unreplaced. I think the main reason why there is some "Bill- mania" here is nostalgia. Yes, nostalgia coming from fans who usually criticize the Stones for "being a nostalgia act". Just my opinion.

Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good. Admirable. That's another backhanded compliment. Darryl shows up everyday, plugs in his amp and plays an admirable attempt at being the bass player for the Rolling Stones. I have nostalgia for when I'd put on a Stones song, or heard them live, and the bass ENGAGED me.

I just heard 'She's So Cold' this morning. Bill's bass is a huge part of the song. It's humorous and expressive. Maybe it's not Darryl's fault. Maybe Mick keeps him in check. But if that's so, why aren't we getting Darryl Jones albums where he gets to express himself out of frustration? In fact, this hotshot MILES FREAKIN' DAVIS acolyte barely seems to exist aside from showing up for Stones live gigs. Where's the demand for this jazz genius? And don't tell me he has to wait on pins and needles for the Stones to call. He's got plenty of time for side projects.

I've compared this before to Kenney Jones replacing Moon. It just didn't work. Zac Starkey brought them back to megastar level. I don't intend the dynamic duo of Plunk and Tinkle to ever change now. It's too late. But please, let me bitch about it. It's all I've got.