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laertisflash
"Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good..."
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
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bitusa2012
I love how we're all such successful musicians that we can advise the Stones on what/how they should play
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
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24FPSQuote
laertisflash
"Nostalgia my ass, unless you're talking about someone who wants to hear the Stones sound good..."
I want the same, 24FPS. And during Voodoo Lounge tour i discovered that the Stones sounded in my ears slightly better than on SW/UJ tour... Once again: Bill is not unreplaced, IMO.
Listening to Tokyo 1990 it sounds like Bill is fading. He sounded fantastic on the Steel Wheels record, but he seemed to be getting lost in the carnival of musicians they brought on board for the 89/90 tour. The previous one, 81/82 had been very stripped down compared to 89 and every tour after, excepting No Security (at least for the beginning of the concert).
I don't know about the Voodoo Lounge Tour. I haven't seen/heard a recording from then in a long time. I think it's out of print as a DVD. I will be fair and say that after hearing the first few cuts from the Voodoo Lounge CD, 'Love Is Strong' and 'You Got Me Rocking', I thought that they'd be okay without Bill. A lot of the rest of the album seemed kind of throwaway and the production a little too sharp, but I attributed that more to Mick and Keith.
I guess it was the Bridges tour when I first noticed Darryl wasn't cutting it. He totally blew the bass line to 'Anybody Seen My Baby'. Now this was supposed to be a world class bassist with Miles Davis pedigree and he couldn't cut what was a rather rudimentary run. I checked the Bridges album and saw that Darryl didn't play on the studio cut, and didn't play on a lot of Bridges. I wondered if they'd already lost confidence in him. It was becoming apparent that he wasn't going to be a Rolling Stone.
I've never been much aware of how the bass sounds in a concert because it tends to get blended into the background instrumentation. It wasn't until I started hearing Live Licks and listened to the Bridges DVD that I began to think something was missing. It was melody on the bass line. 'Rough Justice' had some nice bottom, but the empty spots where the Stones former bass player would do a nice fill or succinct, appropriate notes, was noticeably absent. The cerebral and emotional aspect of the Rolling Stones music was now aching but unfulfilled.
It was the release of 'Plundered My Soul' in the summer of 2010 that confirmed everything I'd been feeling. From the get go a rubbery, appealing bass encircled the music and the wobble was back. Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
I thought when they first brought in Darryl that he would be funky. After all the Rolling Stones are an English white boy group built on black music. Finally they would have an authentic black sound, from Chicago no less, land of Chess Records. It didn't happen. They had hired another jazzer. We didn't get a Bootsy or a James Jamerson.
My half-assed theory is that Darryl figured out he wasn't going to get to contribute much to their sound. He was always going to be a side man with no real input. Would never be paid the big bucks, although paid handsomely. He has no life long love of rock and roll. He didn't even become interested in it until he was almost 30. I hate to say it, but I think his attitude is f-it, I'll do as little as I have to. I'll make this bread and not sweat it. Period.
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24FPS
Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. [And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed] Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
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Stoneage
The truth is actually the other way around. Darryl is the professional in the band. A hired one (which constitutes the word).
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
Stoneage
The truth is actually the other way around. Darryl is the professional in the band. A hired one (which constitutes the word).
In what way wasn't Bill a professional?
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bitusa2012
I love how we're all such successful musicians that we can advise the Stones on what/how they should play
We mostly seem to STATE what we believe as fact, not opinion
If Darryl 'wasnt cutting it', I truthfully dont think he'd be playing with the Stones
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DandelionPowderman
Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.
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KirkQuote
DandelionPowderman
Just listen to bass playing on these two clips. Bill is all walking all over the fretboard. Darryl is concentrating on the key notes.
Nice! I put the 2003 audio over the 1981 video and everything works just as good!!!
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RoughJusticeOnYaQuote
24FPS
Maybe Keith, Charlie and Bill aren't geniuses, but whatever the hell those 3 together created sure was. [And further 'bootleg' releases of concerts from 1975 and 1981 only confirmed] Bill's greatness as the ultimate Rolling Stones bass player.
True.
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Kirk
24FPS, you might be right! Of course, there is something missing in the latter version compared to the 1981 one. But the whole sonic attitude if this is a proper expression is not that far away. IMHO of course.
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ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
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ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
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ZuluFunMix
I gotta say, as someone who has seen Darryl Jones play jazz fusion three or four times with the Miles Evans Band at Catalina's in LA, this idea that he is somehow a less gifted / less swinging bassist than Bill W. -- or even worse, that he takes a half-assed approach to his work with the Stones -- is completely preposterous. Just go to Catalina's sometime and watch/listen how he channels Jaco on a tune like "Teen Town" and you will be blown away by how completely locked-in and focused and rolling-the-whole-thing-forward he is, by dancing in front of and behind the main beat: "rocking," if you like. If you don't like the Jaco style, check his work on the live "Live with Me" track on "No Security" and tell me that he isn't completely on top of his game. Or the way he handled "Miss You" on the last mini-tour (which Mick J. himself praised during the mid-December pay-per-view). The fact is that Darryl could sweep the street with any of the Stones as musicians, with the possible exception of Charlie Watts and Mick Taylor. But I sense that he *chooses*, for political and personal reasons, to hold back a little so as not to upstage his Stones' friends and benefactors (who, I sense, from a short conversation I had with him once at Catalina's, he genuinely likes and respects -- all of them, and not just because of the paycheck they give him). Contrast this to Mick T., who completely blew Mick, Keith, and Ronnie away with his guitar playing during the pay-per-view: you could see by the look on all their faces that "holy shit, this guy is in another league as a guitarist compared to us" -- but in that way Mick T. embarrassed them a bit. Possibly because of his chemical experimentation, etc., Mick T. doesn't seem to have the political savvy or even just human empathy that Darryl has. Darryl, I believe, *chooses* to lay back a little and play a far more subtle role than he is certainly capable of playing because (a) trying to upstage the Stones would be churlish, petty, and narcissistic, and (b) he likes the Stones personally and he genuinely appreciates what they've done for them: he wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or show disrespect/ingratitude by doing anything that would appear to upstage them. I sense Darryl is a complex, deeply intelligent, multifaceted character who has calculated the proper role he should play for the Stones during the final two or three decades of their career. Consequently, all the Darryl-bashing seems completely uninformed, mindless, and off-the-mark to. I frankly think the Darryl-bashers haven't got a clue what they're talking about.
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Stoneage
It's a strange thing though; you play with a band for two decades and still no one considers you a Rolling Stone. You're still just a hired hand.
He's been with the band almost twice as long as Brian Jones and Mick Taylor put together.