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Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: November 6, 2013 04:14

Listening to Metal Machine Music is akin to suffering from tinnitus. Reed was angry with the record company, had to release something, so produced this. I'm sure he didn't intend for anyone to actually enjoy it. Reading the 'positive' reviews on Amazon and how they 'get' it, is, quite frankly, disturbing.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 04:41

Quote
Big Al
Listening to Metal Machine Music is akin to suffering from tinnitus. Reed was angry with the record company, had to release something, so produced this. I'm sure he didn't intend for anyone to actually enjoy it. Reading the 'positive' reviews on Amazon and how they 'get' it, is, quite frankly, disturbing.

I totally agree, but then again I also always hated how good LOU said it was. I know I've read that he put it out because everyone was like "Lou Reed is getting better and better" and "He can't put out a bad album" so he was like "oh yeah, watch this". Which is great. I mean, thats hilarious.

But then later on, he started to BS it and talk it up like it really was this genius thing. That always pissed me off, because I don't think he really meant for it to be that way. He just saw that some people liked it, and after time went back and jumped on the bandwagon of it being this amazing thing. I swear, in the last ten years he'd mention it to an annoying amount, like it was this big accomplishment when really he was just trying to put out noise! Maybe he really did like it, but I doubt it. In typical Lou fashion, you never quite knew what the exact message was, but I think it was how he first described it.

And actually, I have heard some of it. There's a minute and a half long sample of it on the Between Thought box set. I joke that its that length because thats all people can take of it. When putting that box on my iPod, I heard the minute and a half to see if maybe I was wrong. Nope, heard it and even in that minute I could barely get through it. I mean, sure I'll laugh at it because it is funny, but its also not music and it is insufferable. I don't think I'll ever reach a point where I want to heard 4 16 minute movements of that stuff. But if you like it, good for you.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: November 6, 2013 06:36

Good post, RollingFreak.

Have you seen this? What a waste of an evening! I hope Lou at least performed something like Sweet Jane as an encore! I doubt it though. That wouldn't be very 'Lou' after all.




Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 06:59

What's funny, is the first thing I thought after posting is "well he must like something about it, because he has performed Metal Machine live with people." I assume its more Sister Ray/Like A Possum type stuff where its just longer songs instead of straight noise like Metal Machine. I have to assume there's some sort of musical element that makes him get through it.

And yes, from everything I've read it looks like he played Metal Machine at those shows and then left. No encore, no Sweet Jane. How very Lou lol. Thats what I love about what the Facebook post said. You truly never knew what you were getting at one of his shows. Which Lou would show up.

My favorite recent memory of Lou my family remembers is when my dad and I got Animal Serenade. We loved it, it was just amazing. Lou played Carnegie Hall the next year, and my dad immediately got tickets. He however did not get the brilliant evening of Animal Serenade, but instead got a very boring, uninteresting hour and 15 minutes of music. The songs weren't necessarily bad, but Lou didn't speak and the show was very short and heavy on obscurities. He played Modern Dance early on and did similar Serenade friendly banter but that was it. The rest of the evening was quite dull and the only hit he played was Perfect Day, in The Raven style which no one was really thrilled with. There is a bootleg that proves all of this. My dad had seen Lou about 7 times and said this was easily the worst. Unfortunately it was also the last.

You just never knew with Lou:

[www.setlist.fm]

For what its worth, my dad also really likes Magic And Loss which was heavily played that night. It was still just pretty boring and overall not what the people wanted that night. Apparently it was what Lou wanted lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-06 07:00 by RollingFreak.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: November 6, 2013 07:35

Quote
Big Al
Listening to Metal Machine Music is akin to suffering from tinnitus. Reed was angry with the record company, had to release something, so produced this. I'm sure he didn't intend for anyone to actually enjoy it. Reading the 'positive' reviews on Amazon and how they 'get' it, is, quite frankly, disturbing.


Saying you "like" Metal Machine Music--as a concept, which is Lou's f**k-off to RCA--is one thing.

Actually listening to the whole thing--and maintaining that it is "good" or even "music" is a sad self-delusion. It's the Emperor's New Clothes.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 6, 2013 16:25

Quote
loog droog
Quote
Big Al
Listening to Metal Machine Music is akin to suffering from tinnitus. Reed was angry with the record company, had to release something, so produced this. I'm sure he didn't intend for anyone to actually enjoy it. Reading the 'positive' reviews on Amazon and how they 'get' it, is, quite frankly, disturbing.


Saying you "like" Metal Machine Music--as a concept, which is Lou's f**k-off to RCA--is one thing.

Actually listening to the whole thing--and maintaining that it is "good" or even "music" is a sad self-delusion. It's the Emperor's New Clothes.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who claims to like MMM is just taking the piss. You'd have to be completely deranged to listen to all sixty-four minutes of it. With the exception of Bob Ludwig, who mastered it and obviously had to listen to the entire thing, probably no one has.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: November 6, 2013 17:15

Quote
tatters
This was posted today on Lou's Facebook page ....

[anearful.blogspot.co.uk]

[...]

As a thought to end this, I urge you to follow Lou's example and find your own points of reference in his remarkable body of work. Don't believe the obituaries with their lazy shibboleths and bits of received wisdom. Transformer is not perfect (in fact, it's quite uneven), The Bells is not the great lost album (that might be Rock And Roll Heart), Take No Prisoners is not just a comedy album (stunning versions of Berlin and Pale Blue Eyes put the lie to that view), Lulu, his collaboration with Metallica, does not suck (it's a brave and bloody album, worth it for Iced Honey and Junior Dad alone). Listen for yourself. Do it for Lou.

Totally agree on this. Transformer might one of his weakest album in term of ambition, while his most ambitious works seem to have always been shot down in flame, from Berlin to Lulu. Just use your own ears and don't believe what others say. I bet that by the end of the decade Lulu will be rehabilited by the critic and will be seen as Lou Reed's ultimate classic.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: November 6, 2013 17:34

Quote
tatters
Quote
loog droog
Quote
Big Al
Listening to Metal Machine Music is akin to suffering from tinnitus. Reed was angry with the record company, had to release something, so produced this. I'm sure he didn't intend for anyone to actually enjoy it. Reading the 'positive' reviews on Amazon and how they 'get' it, is, quite frankly, disturbing.


Saying you "like" Metal Machine Music--as a concept, which is Lou's f**k-off to RCA--is one thing.

Actually listening to the whole thing--and maintaining that it is "good" or even "music" is a sad self-delusion. It's the Emperor's New Clothes.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who claims to like MMM is just taking the piss. You'd have to be completely deranged to listen to all sixty-four minutes of it. With the exception of Bob Ludwig, who mastered it and obviously had to listen to the entire thing, probably no one has.

it's better than Jagger's solo albums, better than Superheavy, better than Undercover...and Yeah, I love it !! - I dont understand people who are not open minded to new things and they just want everything cute and nice and spoonfed to them. How boring - this is lot more interesting than any poor disco fake shit that Jagger has done on his solo albums
This cover version is great its beautifull:






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-06 21:33 by seitan.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: November 6, 2013 19:05

In 1979 Lou worked on some songs with Nils Lofgren. That year, three of them ended up on Lou's "The Bells" album and another three were on the Lofgren record simply titled "Nils."

The song "I Found Her" on the "Nils" album is an undiscovered classic. One of the most genuine love songs Lou ever penned, and right up there with the Grin song "Direction" and "Mud In Your Eye" as one of the best things Nils has ever done.

Worth seeking out.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: November 6, 2013 21:07

Quote
kowalski
Quote
tatters
This was posted today on Lou's Facebook page ....

[anearful.blogspot.co.uk]

[...]

As a thought to end this, I urge you to follow Lou's example and find your own points of reference in his remarkable body of work. Don't believe the obituaries with their lazy shibboleths and bits of received wisdom. Transformer is not perfect (in fact, it's quite uneven), The Bells is not the great lost album (that might be Rock And Roll Heart), Take No Prisoners is not just a comedy album (stunning versions of Berlin and Pale Blue Eyes put the lie to that view), Lulu, his collaboration with Metallica, does not suck (it's a brave and bloody album, worth it for Iced Honey and Junior Dad alone). Listen for yourself. Do it for Lou.

Totally agree on this. Transformer might one of his weakest album in term of ambition, while his most ambitious works seem to have always been shot down in flame, from Berlin to Lulu. Just use your own ears and don't believe what others say. I bet that by the end of the decade Lulu will be rehabilited by the critic and will be seen as Lou Reed's ultimate classic.

BERLIN may just be Lou's greatest album, certainly as far as sustained song quality is concerned, and also the way the songs compliment each other in terms of the overall concept. Maybe it's the single Lou Reed album that manages to touch on the sustained greatness the Stones managed to achieve within those album releases from their golden years 1968-72, although, of course, it is far less accessible, and therefore perhaps much more of an acquired taste. THE BELLS comes very close, too, although 'Disco Mystic', for me, slightly detracts from its overall greatness, somewhat, within its gross level of monotony. CONEY ISLAND BABY is another fine album, if a little slight in places, too. 'Kicks' is fabulous, and 'Coney Island Baby' - the title track, has to be a contender for Lou's most beautifully memorable song. CONEY ISLAND BABY as a whole, i believe, is wonderfully addictive, in a very accessibly laid back, predominantly middle-of-the-road type of way.

Of course, Lou managed to carry on throughout the eighties, nineties, and beyond, recording quality music. He maintained a sharp level of focus, throughout, and managed to get some fine musicians to compliment himself and his muse, on whatever project he was working on. The early eighties team of himself, Robert Quine, Fernando Saunders and Fred Maher, was a real pinnacle for him, of sorts. It's unfortunate his association with Quine could not have gone on for a little longer. Stories of him wiping Quine's quitar from LEGENDARY HEARTS, i feel, is sad. Maybe he really did feel a little threatened by Quine's playing, and him not wanting to share the praise.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: November 6, 2013 21:19

Quote
kowalski
Quote
tatters
This was posted today on Lou's Facebook page ....

[anearful.blogspot.co.uk]

[...]

As a thought to end this, I urge you to follow Lou's example and find your own points of reference in his remarkable body of work. Don't believe the obituaries with their lazy shibboleths and bits of received wisdom. Transformer is not perfect (in fact, it's quite uneven), The Bells is not the great lost album (that might be Rock And Roll Heart), Take No Prisoners is not just a comedy album (stunning versions of Berlin and Pale Blue Eyes put the lie to that view), Lulu, his collaboration with Metallica, does not suck (it's a brave and bloody album, worth it for Iced Honey and Junior Dad alone). Listen for yourself. Do it for Lou.

Totally agree on this. Transformer might one of his weakest album in term of ambition, while his most ambitious works seem to have always been shot down in flame, from Berlin to Lulu. Just use your own ears and don't believe what others say. I bet that by the end of the decade Lulu will be rehabilited by the critic and will be seen as Lou Reed's ultimate classic.

I agree. Metal Machine Music is a brave, experimental and relaxing album - we should never say Rest In Peace, when you can rest in feedback and noise, It's relaxing, beautiful album, very enjoyable. And not the horror show people want you to believe...

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 21:32

Berlin is Lou's greatest album. It has all the best elements, at least of his 70s stuff. Its still got the hard rock nature of Animal (I know it came after Berlin) and Transformer. It has the classic Lou Reed honesty that is absolutely brutal on that album. It has fantastic songs with amazing lyrics. Its ambitious. Thats kind of the pinnacle. His other albums are great, and we can have our personal favorites, but that has all the best stuff. It is also accessible in a way that The Bells, and most of his albums aren't. All his albums are great, but many feel dated. Transformer and Berlin aren't. The newer ones like New York and Ecstasy aren't dated, but they are also older Reed which you have to factor in. Berlin has something that older Reed can't touch on. I don't know if you can be a Lou fan and not like Berlin. You may not like it at first but to be a Lou fan it'll eventually grow on you.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: November 6, 2013 22:03

Quote
RollingFreak
Berlin is Lou's greatest album. It has all the best elements, at least of his 70s stuff. Its still got the hard rock nature of Animal (I know it came after Berlin) and Transformer. It has the classic Lou Reed honesty that is absolutely brutal on that album. It has fantastic songs with amazing lyrics. Its ambitious. Thats kind of the pinnacle. His other albums are great, and we can have our personal favorites, but that has all the best stuff. It is also accessible in a way that The Bells, and most of his albums aren't. All his albums are great, but many feel dated. Transformer and Berlin aren't. The newer ones like New York and Ecstasy aren't dated, but they are also older Reed which you have to factor in. Berlin has something that older Reed can't touch on. I don't know if you can be a Lou fan and not like Berlin. You may not like it at first but to be a Lou fan it'll eventually grow on you.

Yes, Lou's vocals in the seventies have a real edge. When Lou performed BERLIN live a few years back, he just didn't have that certain 'tone' he had in his youth, that could cut right through you. I always liked his earlier monotone with the slight quiver the best. It has a real harshness, which all the gruff shouting etc. in later years just can't quite make up for. I liked his singing on THE BLUE MASK, and parts of LEGENDARY HEARTS too. Really i like his early vocals through the late seventies more improvised jazz influences, through to the more mature (and deeper) LEGENDARY HEARTS voice the best. The trouble i find with NEW YORK, SONGS FOR DRELLA, and MAGIC AND LOSS is it all sounds a little too clinical for my taste musically, and Reed's voice sounds a little too much like he's reciting, as in speaking, instead of putting in a little more energy/vitality. Things improve a little with SET THE TWILIGHT REELING and ECSTASY, where Lou sounds considerably more enthusiastic. However, as far as live shows are concerned, it is always his seventies concerts, that show Lou vocally in the best light (that being said, i rather like 1983s A NIGHT WITH LOU REED DVD too).

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 22:06

[www.rollingstone.com]

Jesus, its as if they're trying to make me cry as much as possible. I was never a big Laurie Anderson fan. I just didn't know much about her, but I could not be happier that Lou found happiness in her. They seem perfect for each other and she's been amazing through all of this. Amazing read.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 22:11

Quote
Edward Twining
Quote
RollingFreak
Berlin is Lou's greatest album. It has all the best elements, at least of his 70s stuff. Its still got the hard rock nature of Animal (I know it came after Berlin) and Transformer. It has the classic Lou Reed honesty that is absolutely brutal on that album. It has fantastic songs with amazing lyrics. Its ambitious. Thats kind of the pinnacle. His other albums are great, and we can have our personal favorites, but that has all the best stuff. It is also accessible in a way that The Bells, and most of his albums aren't. All his albums are great, but many feel dated. Transformer and Berlin aren't. The newer ones like New York and Ecstasy aren't dated, but they are also older Reed which you have to factor in. Berlin has something that older Reed can't touch on. I don't know if you can be a Lou fan and not like Berlin. You may not like it at first but to be a Lou fan it'll eventually grow on you.

Yes, Lou's vocals in the seventies have a real edge. When Lou performed BERLIN live a few years back, he just didn't have that certain 'tone' he had in his youth, that could cut right through you. I always liked his earlier monotone with the slight quiver the best. It has a real harshness, which all the gruff shouting etc. in later years just can't quite make up for. I liked his singing on THE BLUE MASK, and parts of LEGENDARY HEARTS too. Really i like his early vocals through the late seventies more improvised jazz influences, through to the more mature (and deeper) LEGENDARY HEARTS voice the best. The trouble i find with NEW YORK, SONGS FOR DRELLA, and MAGIC AND LOSS is it all sounds a little too clinical for my taste musically, and Reed's voice sounds a little too much like he's reciting, as in speaking, instead of putting in a little more energy/vitality. Things improve a little with SET THE TWILIGHT REELING and ECSTASY, where Lou sounds considerably more enthusiastic. However, as far as live shows are concerned, it is always his seventies concerts, that show Lou vocally in the best light (that being said, i rather like 1983s A NIGHT WITH LOU REED DVD too).

100% absolutely agree. New York is a great album, but I've always had the same problem as you. Songs like Halloween Parade and Last Great American Whale are very good, but the problem is that the way he speaks makes them all sound the same. It IS very boring! In the best way possible, but I'm just saying there's definitely a thing thats hard to get past. He definitely did get better later on. But in the early years, even when you criticize that he sounds so monotone, all his songs DID sound different. There was feeling there, whereas later on he was essentially just reading. Its not meant to diminish him, because we've all talked about how great his entire career was. But I don't think his best album can come from any decade other than the 70s. The 80s, 90s, and 2000s all had a similarity that the 70s was totally different from. His tone in the 70s is something so specific to that era that he never had again, and that tone is the reason he became so big. Without the 70s he wouldn't have had the success he did. Its easy to belittle those albums because they are more popular, but they are still probably his best in terms of actually having every part of the great Lou Reed.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: November 6, 2013 23:06

Quote
RollingFreak
100% absolutely agree. New York is a great album, but I've always had the same problem as you. Songs like Halloween Parade and Last Great American Whale are very good, but the problem is that the way he speaks makes them all sound the same. It IS very boring! In the best way possible, but I'm just saying there's definitely a thing thats hard to get past. He definitely did get better later on. But in the early years, even when you criticize that he sounds so monotone, all his songs DID sound different. There was feeling there, whereas later on he was essentially just reading. Its not meant to diminish him, because we've all talked about how great his entire career was. But I don't think his best album can come from any decade other than the 70s. The 80s, 90s, and 2000s all had a similarity that the 70s was totally different from. His tone in the 70s is something so specific to that era that he never had again, and that tone is the reason he became so big. Without the 70s he wouldn't have had the success he did. Its easy to belittle those albums because they are more popular, but they are still probably his best in terms of actually having every part of the great Lou Reed.

I agree, Rolling. Lou's monotone voice was the only real constant through to ROCK AND ROLL HEART (it remained pretty unchanged up to that point), because the actual context within which he was singing was forever changing. However, it was STREET HASSLE which marked the first significant change in the way Lou approached his vocals, and where variations aside from his distinctive monotone were first heard. I actually really like his quavering jazz influenced vocals from STREET HASSLE and THE BELLS (as well as his more gruff punk influenced vocals), and think they add immeasurably to the artistry of those albums. When things settled somewhat, around the time of BLUE MASK, Lou kept some of those vocal mannerisms on, although in a slightly more sober vocal/musical setting.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 6, 2013 23:19

Definitely. Street Hassle began the period I like to call the "I'm gonna roll out of bed and I don't care what my voice sounds like" voice. He almost sounds like he's making fun of his own songs the way he sings Dirt or Real Good Time Together. Its what makes those songs so great, but it was such a different voice. It was that drunken voice where it really sounds like he's putting no effort in at all, yet he's making it work so well. I agree it was around the Blue Mask that things changed and then he got the more serious kind of voice.

I remember hearing Coney Island Baby for the first time on Take No Prisoners and I had never heard the song before so I had no idea what he was saying! I didn't understand the song at all. It literally sounded like spontaenous music and yelling. Then I heard the studio track, got the gist, and heard the live version again. Now its one of my favorite live tracks of Lou's. During that time period you definitely had to know the songs or else it just sounds like he's drunkenly rambling. But when you do know the songs, you appreciate how great the versions are.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: November 6, 2013 23:44

I don't think Lou ever recorded another song that exceeded 'Coney Island Baby', in terms of its beauty, although those early more influential Velvet Underground songs will always be given the higher profile. ROCK AND ROLL HEART is the one album i used to feel was very slight and insubstantial, and i still believe a number of the tracks aren't anywhere close to his best. However, the album is a real grower given time, and tracks like 'You Wear It So Well' and 'Ladies Pay' contain hidden depths over repeated listens. Lou at this point sounded truly spirited vocally, even if the material seemed a little thin at times.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 7, 2013 00:09

I've never actually heard Rock And Roll Heart in its entirety. I have the CD on my iPod, so maybe I should do that during this inspired listening time.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Date: November 7, 2013 00:19

I agree with Edward that "Coney Island Baby" is the finest thing Lou ever comitted to vinyl (at least as a solo artist). I would add that Coney Island Baby is his greatest album.


Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: November 7, 2013 00:46

One Lou song I keep digging is Underneath The Bottle from The Blue Mask. It's just so Lou.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: November 7, 2013 01:09

After Berlin, Street Hassle is the other great 70's album by Lou Reed. Then come Coney Island Baby, Transformer, Rock'n Roll Animal, Take No Prisoner and bits from The Bells, Rock'n Roll Heart, Sally Can't Dance, his first solo album...

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: November 7, 2013 02:30

Street Hassle is a masterpiece - I love that record. One of his best.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Pietro ()
Date: November 7, 2013 02:35

I know this is a minority opinion, but he was a hack. His best album, "Transformer," owed more to its producer, David Bowie, than it did to him.

What really bothers me about him is that he was the American baby boomers alter ego. He wrote about taking drugs, going uptown in NYC to buy heroin, etc., which amounted to a cheap thrill ride for all the boomers to get their second-hand chill-thrills.

"A mainer to my vein leads to a center in my head/And I'm better off dead."

Whenever I see one of those wan heroin junkies on the street I want to ask her if it's as romantic as Lou Reed made it out to be.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: November 7, 2013 02:48

Quote
Pietro
I know this is a minority opinion, but he was a hack. His best album, "Transformer," owed more to its producer, David Bowie, than it did to him.

What really bothers me about him is that he was the American baby boomers alter ego. He wrote about taking drugs, going uptown in NYC to buy heroin, etc., which amounted to a cheap thrill ride for all the boomers to get their second-hand chill-thrills.

"A mainer to my vein leads to a center in my head/And I'm better off dead."

Whenever I see one of those wan heroin junkies on the street I want to ask her if it's as romantic as Lou Reed made it out to be.

David Bowie didnt write the songs on Transformer and Lou Reed's best album is Velvet Underground With Nico. - Lou's best albums are the Velvet
Underground recordings.

As for baby boomers - songs about heroin are far more interesting than utopian songs about being useless lazy bum on the beach, like all the Beach Boys songs.

When ever I hear someone saying that Elvis is great - I want to ask them why do you think its great that Peanut butter and fast food restaurant Icon is exploiting black music and racism and stealing all the great black blues and rock songs without having any talent to write a song ?

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: Pietro ()
Date: November 7, 2013 03:03

Quote
seitan
Quote
Pietro
I know this is a minority opinion, but he was a hack. His best album, "Transformer," owed more to its producer, David Bowie, than it did to him.

What really bothers me about him is that he was the American baby boomers alter ego. He wrote about taking drugs, going uptown in NYC to buy heroin, etc., which amounted to a cheap thrill ride for all the boomers to get their second-hand chill-thrills.

"A mainer to my vein leads to a center in my head/And I'm better off dead."

Whenever I see one of those wan heroin junkies on the street I want to ask her if it's as romantic as Lou Reed made it out to be.

David Bowie didnt write the songs on Transformer and Lou Reed's best album is Velvet Underground With Nico. - Lou's best albums are the Velvet
Underground recordings.

As for baby boomers - songs about heroin are far more interesting than utopian songs about being useless lazy bum on the beach, like all the Beach Boys songs.

When ever I hear someone saying that Elvis is great - I want to ask them why do you think its great that Peanut butter and fast food restaurant Icon is exploiting black music and racism and stealing all the great black blues and rock songs without having any talent to write a song ?

Elvis was great. No doubt about it. There would be no rock and roll without him.

Reed was essentially a bourgeois. He was middle-class. Those songs about the underground were like B horror movies for all the boomer kiddies. And it shows you how unsophisticated we are that Lou and his New York schtick is considered sophisticated.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: November 7, 2013 03:19

Quote
Pietro
Quote
seitan
Quote
Pietro
I know this is a minority opinion, but he was a hack. His best album, "Transformer," owed more to its producer, David Bowie, than it did to him.

What really bothers me about him is that he was the American baby boomers alter ego. He wrote about taking drugs, going uptown in NYC to buy heroin, etc., which amounted to a cheap thrill ride for all the boomers to get their second-hand chill-thrills.

"A mainer to my vein leads to a center in my head/And I'm better off dead."

Whenever I see one of those wan heroin junkies on the street I want to ask her if it's as romantic as Lou Reed made it out to be.

David Bowie didnt write the songs on Transformer and Lou Reed's best album is Velvet Underground With Nico. - Lou's best albums are the Velvet
Underground recordings.

As for baby boomers - songs about heroin are far more interesting than utopian songs about being useless lazy bum on the beach, like all the Beach Boys songs.

When ever I hear someone saying that Elvis is great - I want to ask them why do you think its great that Peanut butter and fast food restaurant Icon is exploiting black music and racism and stealing all the great black blues and rock songs without having any talent to write a song ?

Elvis was great. No doubt about it. There would be no rock and roll without him.

Reed was essentially a bourgeois. He was middle-class. Those songs about the underground were like B horror movies for all the boomer kiddies. And it shows you how unsophisticated we are that Lou and his New York schtick is considered sophisticated.

There was rock n roll before Elvis and Elvis was a pale, radio friendly imitation of the real thing -black musicians. - It shows how unsophisticated people are that they still think Elvis was great, when in fact everything he ever did - he stole - he was imitating black musicians and doing cheap cover versions. He did nothing unique. The unsophisticated and racist America didnt want the black singers - so they had this white guy copy and re-do everything. Elvis was a copy cat -

If Elvis would come today, if he was a new artist in 2013 - he would be a fat karaoke singer in a pub and nothing more.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: November 7, 2013 03:28

Quote
Pietro
Reed was essentially a bourgeois. He was middle-class. Those songs about the underground were like B horror movies for all the boomer kiddies. And it shows you how unsophisticated we are that Lou and his New York schtick is considered sophisticated.

Lou Reed's suburban middle-class background also gave him a template to critique against, as in the lyrics to The Gift [satire]:

The idea came to him on the Thursday before the Mummers' Parade was scheduled
To appear. He'd just finished mowing and etching the Edelsons lawn for a dollar
Fifty and had checked the mailbox to see if there was at least a word from
Marsha. There was nothing but a circular from the Amalgamated Aluminum Company
Of America inquiring into his awing needs. At least they cared enough to write.


and, especially, Rock And Roll:

Jenny said, when she was just five years old
you know there's nothin' happening at all
Two TV sets, two Cadillac cars
ahhh, hey, ain't help me nothin' at all
not at all


Just because he came from a materially comfortable background doesn't automatically make for a soft constitution. Reed's "bourgeois" parents also had him subjected to electroshock "therapy" because they were afraid that he might turn out to be homosexual.

As for his so-called New York "schtick", well, that's where he's from, that's where he grew up, that's where he lived his adult life. So, as a writer, what do you expect him to write about, Los Angeles, Paris, Tokyo, Tangiers? A writer writes what a writer knows about.

And yes, Lou Reed was a writer, a poet, who, while attending Syracuse University, was a protege of another distinguished American poet who taught there, Delmore Schwartz, who also wrote critically as an outsider of the suburban/middle class from which he, too, had emerged. Funny how those traditions in literature work. Lou Reed, along with Bob Dylan who preceded him by a few years, brought a literary sophistication that was missing during the more jejune-themed days of early rock n roll.


Lou Reed's English literature professor, Delmore Schwartz, in younger years.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: ab ()
Date: November 7, 2013 04:24

So many excellent albums, where to start? The four VU albums, Berlin, Coney Island Baby, Street Hassle, The Blue Mask, New York, Magic and Loss, Ecstasy. Then you've got some equally excellent live sets: VU 1969 Live, RnR Animal, Live in Italy, Animal Seranade. Most people would be proud to have one of these on their resumes. Lou had 'em all!

Even the ones that missed the mark in their entireties had gems (Transformer had its hits, Sally Can't Dance had Ennui, Rock 'n' Roll Heart had Temporary Thing, The Bells had the title track, Growing Up in Public had Think It Over, etc.).

As for MMM, because I used to refer to MMM in conversation, I once played a minute of it for a now-ex-girlfriend. She begged me to take it off after about five seconds, but I made her sit through the entire minute. I didn't hear the end of her whining for a few weeks. That should have been a sign....

Years later, when I started dating my wife, she was already familiar with MMM and didn't freak out then I bought the Blu-ray of it with the original quadrophonic mix. I think I got through about 10 minutes of that once. It makes more sense with it assaulting you from every angle.

Re: OT: RIP Lou Reed
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 7, 2013 04:31

My favorite performance from Drella. It was heart-stoppingly thrilling to see them do this in person. The closest thing to a "Velvets" moment in the entire show.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 15:53 by tatters.

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