Quote
GumbootCloggeroo

Quote
michaelsavage
Let Rap create a hall of fame of their own. And almost every nominee this year does not belong.

So rap artists should be in their own hall of fame and stay the hell away from the rock and roll one, but a reggae artist in the rock and roll hall of fame is fine? Why aren't you expressing outrage and saying Bob Marley should be in a reggae hall of fame only?

Some people are crossovers. A lot of people aren't.

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo

Quote
michaelsavage
Let Rap create a hall of fame of their own. And almost every nominee this year does not belong.

So rap artists should be in their own hall of fame and stay the hell away from the rock and roll one, but a reggae artist in the rock and roll hall of fame is fine? Why aren't you expressing outrage and saying Bob Marley should be in a reggae hall of fame only?

Some people are crossovers. A lot of people aren't.

Hip hop has crossed over. and non-hip hop artists have crossed over into hip hop. There's no denying the huge influence hip hop has had on music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 00:52 by GumbootCloggeroo.

Quote
StonesCat
Ah, he is, 2002.

Yep, my bad. Hayes is in.





But I think Billy Preston is still not in there. Not even as a "sideman."

Rap is crap. Hip hop being included totally discredits the name "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".

Quote
shadooby
Rap is crap. Hip hop being included totally discredits the name "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".

Correct. It IS as simple as that. It is very easy to understand.

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo

Quote
michaelsavage
Let Rap create a hall of fame of their own. And almost every nominee this year does not belong.

So rap artists should be in their own hall of fame and stay the hell away from the rock and roll one, but a reggae artist in the rock and roll hall of fame is fine? Why aren't you expressing outrage and saying Bob Marley should be in a reggae hall of fame only?

Some people are crossovers. A lot of people aren't.

Hip hop has crossed over. and non-hip hop artists have crossed over into hip hop. There's no denying the huge influence hip hop has had on music.

Yes, but none of them would categorize themselves as "rock artists". Thats why I don't understand them accepting an award for such. I've got nothing against them and I like a lot of hip hop artists, but aside from Run DMC who had the huge hit with Walk This Way, I don't consider them rock, so I wouldn't induct them into a rock and roll hall of fame. Why is it a dumb idea to have a "Hip Hop Hall Of Fame", as there would certainly be years of people you could induct then. Just seems like the Rock hall is reaching out because they feel they are out of people.

EDIT: Bob Marley is similar to Run DMC that he crossed over a lot. I would say he's an exception and there aren't many I would defend like I would him. Then again, I certainly would be fine if he weren't in at all. Just saying I could understand that one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 01:39 by RollingFreak.

Quote
Max'sKansasCity

Quote
shadooby
Rap is crap. Hip hop being included totally discredits the name "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".

Correct. It IS as simple as that. It is very easy to understand.

True, can we even say what NWA stands for? NiggasWithAttitude...and they're even considered? Nice. I'm the farthest thing from racist, but come on man.

Quote
loog droog

Quote
StonesCat
Ah, he is, 2002.

Yep, my bad. Hayes is in.





But I think Billy Preston is still not in there. Not even as a "sideman."

Well thats the other problem with the hall. You can only really have "undisputed people" in there, and how can you determine that. Yeah, after the Beatles, The Stones, Zeppelin, The Who... after the obvious its all opinion. I love Billy Preston, but is there enough reason to put him in? Just because we're at a point that everyone else is in? It really is like we then just go back and induct the rest of the people just because, even though they weren't that famous, they just "should" be there because he was still a great guy.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, and yeah if we're gonna have Madonna in there there are millions that now should "just be there." But Billy Preston is a perfect example of someone that would only be in because of someone's personal preference, instead of universal praise as a Hall should be. That problem arose in about 95 and has just gotten worse since. I guess there is the argument for Preston as a sideman, but still it should be for the elite which it hasn't been for awhile.

They should have done it that each year of inductees gets to pick who goes the next year. That would have been cool and full of respect IMO.

Quote
Chris Fountain
I won't watch this year as the setlist will suck based on the nominees.

I don't think you're going out on a limb with that hypothesis

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Chris Fountain
I won't watch this year as the setlist will suck based on the nominees.

I don't think you're going out on a limb with that hypothesis

Yeah - I'm scrambling for a Hall and Oates hit song that would work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 02:26 by Chris Fountain.

Eventually everyone gets in.

Quote
jazzbass
Eventually everyone gets in.

and you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.

Quote
ab

None of the prog bands were all the rage throughout the '70s are in. Yes would be the first of that ilk. For better or worse, they're the most deserving.

What are you talking about, Rush and Genesis are in there. Many consider Pink Floyd prog (I don't; they're art rock which yes, is actually a different style) but they're in there as well. Obviously King Crimson and Yes should absolutely be in there as well but for some reason are not yet . . . Oh right, because Madonna and hip hop artists belong more in there than any progressive ROCK (it had rock in the name for a reason!) bands. Ugh . . .

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic

Quote
ab

None of the prog bands were all the rage throughout the '70s are in. Yes would be the first of that ilk. For better or worse, they're the most deserving.

What are you talking about, Rush and Genesis are in there. Many consider Pink Floyd prog (I don't; they're art rock which yes, is actually a different style) but they're in there as well. Obviously King Crimson and Yes should absolutely be in there as well but for some reason are not yet . . . Oh right, because Madonna and hip hop artists belong more in there than any progressive ROCK (it had rock in the name for a reason!) bands. Ugh . . .

I feel like King Crimson is a controversial choice. I wouldn't particularly agree. Obviously before Madonna, but just saying aside from In The Court I can't think of anything that was a really big impact of Crimson's.

<<Let Rap create a hall of fame of their own>>

They have, actually: [hiphophof.tv]



There is also the National Museum of Hip-Hop (NMoH): [hiphopmuseum.org]

The blues have a hall of fame as well, which was started by the Blues Foundation in 1980:



[www.blues.org]

The jazz genre has several, some of which are devoted to the heritage involving single U.S. states, like Oklahoma or Alabama:

[www.okjazz.org]

[www.jazzhall.com]

and some are devoted to genres within the genre, such as the Big Band and Jazz Hall of Fame:

[www.nndb.com]

There is even the DownBeat [magazine] Hall of Fame:

[www.downbeat.com]

Then there is the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum in Nashville, Tennessee:



[countrymusichalloffame.org]

There are certainly plenty of halls of fame to go around....

But to address some of the rock purists who express outrage at some of the inductees being inappropriate for the "rock" hall of fame.

Rock n roll from its inception has been a hybrid crossover unto itself, incorporating blues, country, jazz, and even elements of Scottish folk music--in fact, more ingredients went into the inception of rock n roll than go into the average bowl of New England clam chowder.

So perhaps it's [if unintentionally] hypocritical to claim that rock n roll means just one type of music.

Really, Hank Williams and Louis Jordan have as much a place in the rock HoF as Chuck Berry. The latter was a major influence on Berry's guitar playing for a start, and George Thorogood and The Destroyers covered Hank Williams as have many others including Keith Richards--and apart from that, Hank Williams' own version of Move It On Over, dating from 1947 or so, just plain rocks.

Unfortunately for us, it seems that inductees and nominees into the rock HoF are limited to Yawn Weener's record collection. If you were to visit Yawn's home and browse through his record collection, you'd probably find something there from Donna Summer and a few from Madonna--and, oh, this year's list reveals that he also owns some Hall & Oates records.... Well, Sara Smile rocks--if you're on 'ludes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 05:02 by stonehearted.

Quote
shadooby

Quote
Max'sKansasCity

Quote
shadooby
Rap is crap. Hip hop being included totally discredits the name "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".

Correct. It IS as simple as that. It is very easy to understand.

True, can we even say what NWA stands for? NiggasWithAttitude...and they're even considered? Nice. I'm the farthest thing from racist, but come on man.

Just because you say "nigga" doesn't make you a racist. Don't worry, shadooby

Hate the RRHF. I think it is the antithesis of rock and roll.
Having said that, I'll put Chic, Linda Ronstadt and Nirvana on the must list.
I think Nirvana are overrated, but they were a seminal band in a certain era, although I think it's too soon.
Linda was instrumental in brining alot of awareness to songwriters and artists as well as her own success, and those who disagree can suck on it.
Chic is just epic. If anyone on this list gets in, it should be these Nile Rodgers and Co.
While I loved early Replacements on a personal level, I just don't think they were influential enough overall.

The mention of the Country Hall of Fame in Nashville brought back great memories of several visits I made there. What a gorgeous piece of architecture and wonderfully tasteful inside! It's very well-run and offers truly special exhibitions.

Re Hall and Oates, these guys and their band are a most enjoyable musical act. Their fans include members of the Stones and other rock notables.

When are Foghat, Grand Funk Railroad, J Geils Band, Steve Miller who probably sold more tickets than anybody else in the 70's, going to get nominated?.

You gotta love how it's all token black acts, trying to emphasize a very limited influence into the great source. Heck what Pink Floyd has to do with Brenda Lee and the Staples is just too much of a tenuous link....

In my opinion Rock is a prodominantly caucasian medium, it's base agression is representative of a warring people restrained by morality, and channelling that latent frustration/joy via the medium of rock and roll.

Look I believe that Hair Metal could have only been a caucasian phenomenon, it was like a mating ritual for birds with excess plummage, with hair like cockateils/parrots....

I'll recognise that the blues was originated from the conditions of slavery, but rock owes more to the structures of classical music & english folk singing/nursery rhymes than the wailings of pained souls imo.

Ditch the Soul/Pop artists, bring in a few folkies, with a nod to Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner et al, and I might consider giving this institution an even break.

And Hip Hop has no place at the table, Rick Rubin, a white boy obssessed with the crunch of the bottom end, gave Hip Hop it's underlying formula. It found it's protagonists in the urban ghetto and it's customers in the white suburbs, when MTV turned, it took away the influence of white rock, lets face it. A production featuring one Guy and associated (cheap) hangers-on, pumped through a speaker set, doesn't quite cost the arm and a leg of Rock Show.

The attempt to kill white rock, was an economic decision rather than cultural. Snoops production costs wouldn't have bought Def Leppard a day of studio time. So white rock priced itself out of the market, or was undercut by a new hustle heavy low cost scene.

Quote
SKILLS
When are Foghat, Grand Funk Railroad, J Geils Band, Steve Miller who probably sold more tickets than anybody else in the 70's, going to get nominated?

When they become a part of Mr. Wenner's home record collection.

How about none of these. This is ridiculous at this point. LL Cool J??????????????????????????

Ohh man, what about the English Acts that slayed the States in the 80's,

Depeche Mode at the Rosebowl anyone?

The Cure....Head on the Door was a monster....

Heck without mentioning Duran Duran, who were beyond massive BUT, rNr Hall...I dunno, too pop for me, but hell Purple, Lizzy & UFO are first ballot imo for sheer influence and awesomeness

But I'd chuck in Big Country, The Fixx, Buzzcocks, STF's and The Damned for the amount of copyists that permiate US culture through the influence of savvy A&R guys and girls who were hip and clued in during the 80's.

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic

Quote
ab

None of the prog bands were all the rage throughout the '70s are in. Yes would be the first of that ilk. For better or worse, they're the most deserving.

What are you talking about, Rush and Genesis are in there. Many consider Pink Floyd prog (I don't; they're art rock which yes, is actually a different style) but they're in there as well. Obviously King Crimson and Yes should absolutely be in there as well but for some reason are not yet . . . Oh right, because Madonna and hip hop artists belong more in there than any progressive ROCK (it had rock in the name for a reason!) bands. Ugh . . .

I feel like King Crimson is a controversial choice. I wouldn't particularly agree. Obviously before Madonna, but just saying aside from In The Court I can't think of anything that was a really big impact of Crimson's.

WHY shouldnn't this be inducted in the RRHOF???

The freakin Bee Gee's are the funkiest Palagi's on the planet, nuff said

If Public Enemy, Run-DMC, etc are in NWA needs to be included. West coast represent! Really burnt out on the New York bias. Although I'm not a rap fan per se, there is no denying NWA were hugely influential. "It was a good day, I didn't have to use my AK...". There are some good posts here on overlooked bands. 2 that are seldom mentioned but definitely left a mark in terms of quality & influence are Husker Du & the Pixies. Just saw the Pixies on Fallon this week. The new stuff is sounding pretty darned good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 13:17 by crholmstrom.

Is it possible for an act that hasn't 'cracked' the U.S. to make the list of nominees?

N.W.A.'s Straight Outta Compton is one of my most favourite and listened-to albums. It has guns, sex, violence a plenty. It's hip-hop's Appetite For Destruction. The lyrics are often down-right hilarious, too. Not so sure about LL Cool J on the list, but I only own a handful of his recordings. I know he was certainly one of the first genuine stars of the hip-hop scene.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 16:02 by Big Al.

Quote
stonesrule
The mention of the Country Hall of Fame in Nashville brought back great memories of several visits I made there. What a gorgeous piece of architecture and wonderfully tasteful inside! It's very well-run and offers truly special exhibitions.

Re Hall and Oates, these guys and their band are a most enjoyable musical act. Their fans include members of the Stones and other rock notables.

Yeah right...next you're going to say that the Hall and Oates band backed up Mick at Live Aid. SHEESH!

Quote
jazzbass
Eventually everyone gets in.

This.

They ran out of first tier inductees years ago, but they must keep the thing going somehow and have new inductees every year...hence letting anyone and everyone in, regardless of genre or talent. It's no longer "rock and roll" or a hall of "fame."

-Paul Butterfield Blues Band: - why not...


-Deep Purple: Boring as hell, in fact - i think they suck but I can understand if people want them in...


-Peter Gabriel: sucks and never did anything important, so I say no.

-Hall & Oates: sucks - I say NO. - not even rock n roll...

-KISS: Same as Deep Purple. Boring as hell...well, actually even worse than Purple, I say NO.

-LL Cool J: Nope - not worth even mention..

-The Meters: Maybe. I'd say yeah, why not - important for the history of funk

-Nirvana: - the most important band of the 90's...so I say Yeah, ABSOLUTELY.

-NWA: - the most important Hip Hop group ever, yeah absolutely - they should be included.

-The Replacements: A fine band but not a rock and roll hall of fame band. Nope - You gotta get Johnny Thunders and New York Dolls first, copy cats and wanne be's can come later...

-Linda Ronstadt: mediocre singer - I say NO

-Cat Stevens: I hope he gets shot and blown to pieces.

-Link Wray: HELLO ??? - ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT GUITARIST IN THE HISTORY OF ROCK N ROLL !!! DO THEY EVEN HAVE TO ASK - without him, there would be no Stooges, Iggy Pop, no Keith, no WHO and no Pete Townshed, No Beatles, No Hendrix ...are you kidding me !! He should be there already !! Not even a Question about it !!!

-Yes: Dont make any make sense for being as lame and crappy as they are..I think I say NO.

-The Zombies: who cares...

LINK WRAY !!!! - He should go first !!! ohers can lick his feet..well, I know he's dead...but you get my point.