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Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:29

I'm no lip reader, but I don't see him saying "Shut the @#$%& up!". confused smiley

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: VT22 ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:31

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Mathijs
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VT22


Thanks for posting; I never noticed that: Keith gets upset and Taylor doesn't give a shit. Those were the days. Priceless.

Difficult to judge footage, but to me Taylor stops the noodling and looks quite sheepisly to Richards.

Mathijs

At least Taylor wasn't shocked or impressed, he finished his noodling a few seconds afterwards. But again, priceless.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:35

That's it? This happens every second on stage, less noticeable but the band leader does lead. Taylor's lost in his own world for a second.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-14 00:40 by DoomandGloom.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:39

Quote
His Majesty
I'm no lip reader, but I don't see him saying "Shut the @#$%& up!". confused smiley

It's more 'stop fvucking around'.

Mathijs

Btw, its 2013 and we're not allowed to say fvuck on a message board...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-14 00:40 by Mathijs.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: VT22 ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:46

Quote
DoomandGloom
That's it? This happens every second on stage, less noticeable but the band leader does lead. Taylor's lost in his own world for a second.

For a second? Taylor was always lost in his own world when he started noodling. That's what I liked about him.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: May 14, 2013 00:46

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Mathijs
Quote
His Majesty
I'm no lip reader, but I don't see him saying "Shut the @#$%& up!". confused smiley

It's more 'stop fvucking around'.

That fits better. grinning smiley

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: May 14, 2013 01:28

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marianna
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Mathijs
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VT22

And as usual, Taylor didn't give a @#$%&, that's what I liked about him. He didn't care much for Keith musical opinions on stage. Refused to listen to the "boss" and trusted his own compass. That's what I call a musician.

He cared enough to be so unhappy that he left the Stones. And what you call a musician I call a failure.

Mathijs

Hm, that's kind of cold. I don't blame MT for leaving the Stones. They were forcing him out of the band (not only not giving him promised writing credits, but Keith was erasing his tracks), so he may has well have quit. They were already friends with Ron Wood and were hanging out with him and recording with him. It's probable if Taylor hadn't quit, they would have replaced him with Ron Wood anyways. It was the Stones' call to make who they preferred playing with, but I don't think it reflects that badly on MT that he could see the handwriting on the wall and moved on. It wasn't exactly leaving them in the lurch because Ron's time with the Faces was over and he was ready to step in.

You nailed it marianna, that's exactly my conclusion. It's simply logic and a matter of deduction and common sense.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: May 14, 2013 01:39

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kleermaker
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marianna
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Mathijs
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VT22

And as usual, Taylor didn't give a @#$%&, that's what I liked about him. He didn't care much for Keith musical opinions on stage. Refused to listen to the "boss" and trusted his own compass. That's what I call a musician.

He cared enough to be so unhappy that he left the Stones. And what you call a musician I call a failure.

Mathijs

Hm, that's kind of cold. I don't blame MT for leaving the Stones. They were forcing him out of the band (not only not giving him promised writing credits, but Keith was erasing his tracks), so he may has well have quit. They were already friends with Ron Wood and were hanging out with him and recording with him. It's probable if Taylor hadn't quit, they would have replaced him with Ron Wood anyways. It was the Stones' call to make who they preferred playing with, but I don't think it reflects that badly on MT that he could see the handwriting on the wall and moved on. It wasn't exactly leaving them in the lurch because Ron's time with the Faces was over and he was ready to step in.

You nailed it marianna, that's exactly my conclusion. It's simply logic and a matter of deduction and common sense.
so Taylor was forced out? Harvey Mandel and the rest was just so they'd be sure? The made up their minds recording IORR at Wood's studio and made Taylor miserable from there?

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: May 14, 2013 02:00

Considering Ron wound up with another "inspiration" credit on the next album for yet another song, it's obvious he may have been someone they preferred. In any case, they weren't that thrilled with Taylor anymore if Mick J. wrote IORR with Ron Wood. He used to write with MT (let's say to bounce ideas off or help with performing the song demo rather than co-write the song), but he did it with Ron Wood instead. Ron wound up with the job after their using other guys besides Ron on the session for the mediocre Black and Blue album, supposedly in the name of auditioning the other guitarists. They even auditioned Steve Marriott. Does anyone think they would seriously audition a showboating lead singer such as Steve Marriott, known for his singing and less for guitar playing, if they were serious about auditioning guitar players besides Ron Wood? They probably didn't want Ron to get any big ideas, so they gave him some competition, but the job was always his if he wanted it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-14 02:03 by marianna.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: May 14, 2013 02:04

Quote
marianna
Considering Ron wound up with another "inspiration" credit on the next album for yet another song, it's obvious he may have been someone they preferred. In any case, they weren't that thrilled with Taylor anymore if Mick J. wrote IORR with Ron Wood. He used to write with MT (let's say to bounce ideas off or help with performing the song demo rather than co-write the song), but he did it with Ron Wood instead. Ron wound up with the job after their using other guys besides Ron on the session for the mediocre Black and Blue album, supposedly in the name of auditioning the other guitarists. They even auditioned Steve Marriott. Does anyone think they would seriously audition a showboating lead singer such as Steve Marriott, known for his singing and less for guitar playing, if they were serious about auditioning guitar players besides Ron Wood? They probably didn't want Ron to get any big ideas, so they gave him some competition, but the job was always his if he wanted it.

You did it again! You nailed it. Very smart observation.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: sonomastone ()
Date: May 14, 2013 02:05

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DoomandGloom
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kleermaker
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marianna
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Mathijs
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VT22

And as usual, Taylor didn't give a @#$%&, that's what I liked about him. He didn't care much for Keith musical opinions on stage. Refused to listen to the "boss" and trusted his own compass. That's what I call a musician.

He cared enough to be so unhappy that he left the Stones. And what you call a musician I call a failure.

Mathijs

Hm, that's kind of cold. I don't blame MT for leaving the Stones. They were forcing him out of the band (not only not giving him promised writing credits, but Keith was erasing his tracks), so he may has well have quit. They were already friends with Ron Wood and were hanging out with him and recording with him. It's probable if Taylor hadn't quit, they would have replaced him with Ron Wood anyways. It was the Stones' call to make who they preferred playing with, but I don't think it reflects that badly on MT that he could see the handwriting on the wall and moved on. It wasn't exactly leaving them in the lurch because Ron's time with the Faces was over and he was ready to step in.

You nailed it marianna, that's exactly my conclusion. It's simply logic and a matter of deduction and common sense.
so Taylor was forced out? Harvey Mandel and the rest was just so they'd be sure? The made up their minds recording IORR at Wood's studio and made Taylor miserable from there?

you guys are trying to deduce the motives behind very personal decisions made by people you know nothing about 40 years ago based on 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th-hand rumor and innuendo. you should be clear about that.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: May 14, 2013 02:12

In any case, no matter what the reason for it, MT leaving and getting Ron Wood for the job was the right man for the band at the right time. I can't see putting down Mick Taylor if a person prefers the playing of Ron Wood, because by MT's leaving, a lot of Stones fans got the band they wanted. Less soloing, more rhythm guitar and economical lead playing. People who don't care for MT should be grateful he left, not say he's a failure.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 07:05

Quote
crumbling_mice
Meh...not this again, now Taylor is even joining in. Ronnie has more dignity than to make silly statements such as this.

ya ronnie is oh so dignified, banging chambermaids and whatnot hey?

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 14, 2013 07:19

Quote
marianna
Considering Ron wound up with another "inspiration" credit on the next album for yet another song, it's obvious he may have been someone they preferred. In any case, they weren't that thrilled with Taylor anymore if Mick J. wrote IORR with Ron Wood. He used to write with MT (let's say to bounce ideas off or help with performing the song demo rather than co-write the song), but he did it with Ron Wood instead. Ron wound up with the job after their using other guys besides Ron on the session for the mediocre Black and Blue album, supposedly in the name of auditioning the other guitarists. They even auditioned Steve Marriott. Does anyone think they would seriously audition a showboating lead singer such as Steve Marriott, known for his singing and less for guitar playing, if they were serious about auditioning guitar players besides Ron Wood? They probably didn't want Ron to get any big ideas, so they gave him some competition, but the job was always his if he wanted it.

The "inspiration" credit was a creative way to avoid giving Ron a songwriting credit for "Hey Negrita". They did the same thing to Billy Preston on "Melody".

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 09:45

There is also the possibility that Ronnie contributed more to the actual song writing process - without writing the song (words, hooks, choruses etc.).

My guess, with songs like Hey Negrita, is that Wood kickstarted it (the groove), and Mick (and/or Keith) took it from there and wrote a song.

With Taylor (according to Taylor himself), Mick came with songs (Winter, MM, TWFNO etc.), and Taylor helped shaping them in the recording process. That could of course be writing as well (if parts were changed etc.), but it is indeed a different stage in the process.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: May 14, 2013 10:06

Quote
marianna
Considering Ron wound up with another "inspiration" credit on the next album for yet another song, it's obvious he may have been someone they preferred. In any case, they weren't that thrilled with Taylor anymore if Mick J. wrote IORR with Ron Wood. He used to write with MT (let's say to bounce ideas off or help with performing the song demo rather than co-write the song), but he did it with Ron Wood instead. Ron wound up with the job after their using other guys besides Ron on the session for the mediocre Black and Blue album, supposedly in the name of auditioning the other guitarists. They even auditioned Steve Marriott. Does anyone think they would seriously audition a showboating lead singer such as Steve Marriott, known for his singing and less for guitar playing, if they were serious about auditioning guitar players besides Ron Wood? They probably didn't want Ron to get any big ideas, so they gave him some competition, but the job was always his if he wanted it.

It all sounds very plausible, but it's just completely against the facts. Taylor was not forced out in any way, and real auditions where held. Steve Marriot was never actually considered as far as is known, as where other guitarists whom auditioned.

Mathijs

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: smokeydusky ()
Date: May 14, 2013 10:49

Quote
lapaz62
Taylor had a little smirk on his face when he said it, he was clearly just taking the piss.

That seems obvious to me considering how that audience might receive it. But there may be more to consider. After all these years, both "weavers" may regard the term "lead guitarist" as negative so Taylor--who takes a different view--may regard his quip as a way of complementing all three.


Quote
marianna
I don't get calling Mick Taylor a "failure" regardless of why he left the Stones. He was hired by Bob Dylan after he left the Stones, and no matter what happened in his musical life after that fact, that's enough to conclude that somebody of merit thought he was good and therefore, not a failure.

The standard of success or failure for some folks might be "he isn't Keith Richards or John Mayer". Taylor has been a working musician since his teen years--paying the rent and more solely as a musician. Clapton, Slash and other limelights have sung his praises. He continued to develop as a musician whether or not some on this board care for his (in my view, astounding and outstanding) artistry.

As for the Tumbling Dice episode, Taylor played something similar at another of the Houston or Fort Worth shows. Jagger says something to the effect of, "Stop that", but Taylor seems to keep playing. For all we know, they both were talking to Bobby Keys and Jim Price about choreography. In any case, Taylor in the video looks far more indifferent than sheepish to me and he found something far loftier to play at roughly the same point during the '73 tour.

Finally, has no one else read the Stones' own discussion of Taylor's departure:
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rollingstones.com
Between 1969 and 1974 The Rolling Stones made and released Let It Bleed, Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out, Sticky Fingers, Exile On Main St. and Goats Head Soup, and Mick Taylor played on all of them.

This run of success – and more particularly the social and financial events that preceded and in some ways provoked it, especially the flight from Britain into tax exile – took its toll on all of the band; but for Mick Taylor, just married with an infant daughter, and years younger than the rest of them, it was a particularly crushing blow.

Struggling with lifestyle issues, angered over what he saw as deprivation of composition right, uncomfortable with strained relationships between other members, he took his leave. “Nobody leaves the Rolling Stones!” declared fellow band members; but Mick was gone.

So according to the Stones, he was generally unhappy and had one trigger and two euphemisms for leaving. (I would have thought Tayor would be given the opportunity to approve the bio but the omission of "musical differences" suggests he was not. SundanceKid, can you confirm this?) As to the writing credits, I never heard or read Taylor claim his lead guitar work or dimunitive fifth chord earned a writing credit. It's been that the songs would not have been made without his contribution.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: May 14, 2013 11:25

Taylor was The Rolling Stones best Lead-guitarist 1969 - 1974....

smoking smiley
Mick

2 1 2 0

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 11:29

Depends on what kind of lead guitar you like the most smiling smiley




Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: May 14, 2013 12:32

Quote
smokeydusky

As for the Tumbling Dice episode, Taylor played something similar at another of the Houston or Fort Worth shows. Jagger says something to the effect of, "Stop that", but Taylor seems to keep playing.

There's more remarks from live gigs, like Jagger saying 'don't try too hard' before Taylor takes a solo, or 'take it home boy, take it home' when Taylor goes on too long with a solo.

It's not negative per se, but it does show the difference between Jagger's and Richards' vision of the band and Taylor's vision.

Mathijs

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: sonomastone ()
Date: May 14, 2013 12:39

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Mathijs
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Doxa
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Mathijs
Funny thing is -I listened to the San Jose 2013 version of Rambler, and during the first shuffle jam Taylor starts to solo. Within 30 seconds he starts noodling again, playing these useless fake jazz fusion runs. I am absolutely sure Keith wanted to shout at that moment 'shut the fvck up' again, just like he did in '72.

Mathijs

Mathijs's own fetisse... no one else has ever heard that from LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, but he is keep on circulating it as a fact....grinning smiley

- Doxa

At 3:12.





Mathijs

great clip, thanks for posting. and keith was right, mt was hurting the performance.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 13:20

The result of Keith's reaction: Taylor goes back to play the riff - great stuff!

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 14, 2013 13:58

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The result of Keith's reaction: Taylor goes back to play the riff - great stuff!

"Great stuff" because Taylor is (I suppose) humilated by the master Keith and "forced" to slow down and go "back to play the riff"? You anti-Taylorites seem to get your kicks off from strangest things...eye rolling smiley

Anyway, I hear Keith saying "I shit on my pants"...

- Doxa

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 14:04

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The result of Keith's reaction: Taylor goes back to play the riff - great stuff!

"Great stuff" because Taylor is (I suppose) humilated by the master Keith and "forced" to slow down and go "back to play the riff"? You anti-Taylorites seem to get your kicks off from strangest things...eye rolling smiley

Anyway, I hear Keith saying "I shit on my pants"...

- Doxa

LOL! No, I meant that the whole clip was great stuff. Scenes like these are real band interactions, and those little moments are precious on film. I'm glad they kept it.

Anti-Taylorites? If I didn't know you were older than me, I'd say it is somewhat childish of you to call me that - almost as bad as the idiotic posters who claim that it's good team-playing to neglect your working tasks, and don't give a fvck about have the song goes, just to enhance yourself winking smiley

Seriously, we're in the same boat, brother, and I'm happy Taylor is back - and I hope he gets three songs eventually: Shake Your Hips, LIV and MM thumbs up

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: sonomastone ()
Date: May 14, 2013 14:08

Quote
Doxa
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The result of Keith's reaction: Taylor goes back to play the riff - great stuff!

"Great stuff" because Taylor is (I suppose) humilated by the master Keith and "forced" to slow down and go "back to play the riff"? You anti-Taylorites seem to get your kicks off from strangest things...eye rolling smiley

Anyway, I hear Keith saying "I shit on my pants"...

- Doxa

wow you taylorites sure are defensive!

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: roby ()
Date: May 14, 2013 15:55

[www.latimes.com]

By John Corrigan
May 14, 2013, 5:00 a.m.
If you liked the way the Rolling Stones sounded back in the late 1960s and early '70s -- darker and bluesier than more recent conjurings -- you have a chance to hear that signature growl once again.

The Stones' 50 & Counting tour, which returns to Southern California for three shows starting Wednesday at the Honda Center in Anaheim, pays tribute to those years with no-nonsense renditions of songs such as “Midnight Rambler,” “Sympathy for the Devil” and “Gimme Shelter.”

It starts with the gear. Guitarist Ron Wood is usually seen with a Fender Stratocaster, but for the concert at the MGM Grand Arena in Las Vegas on Saturday night, he frequently turned to a Gibson Les Paul, with its heavier rock rumble.

Keith Richards still favors his Telecasters, but for key moments -- including his shrieking leads on “Sympathy” -- he switched to a battered Les Paul Jr.

PHOTOS: The Rolling Stones celebrate 50-years

But nothing brings back that classic hard-rock Stones sound like the man who sits in with the band for a song or two: Mick Taylor.

Taylor played lead guitar on what many consider the Stones’ three greatest albums -- “Let it Bleed,” “Exile on Main St.” and “Sticky Fingers” -- before quitting over his perceived lack of songwriting credit.

A virtuoso guitarist, Taylor has the chops to take a song far beyond what’s written down in the lead sheets. It’s hard to imagine “Wild Horses” being quite so poignant without Taylor’s haunting solo. On the Stones' 1970-released live album, “Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out!,” Taylor's bluesman’s skill at improvisation is on full display, enabling the band to transform “Midnight Rambler” and “Sympathy for the Devil” into tunes quite different than the studio recordings.

Taylor hasn’t stayed lean like his former bandmates, but when he plugged in for "Midnight Rambler" in Las Vegas, it was clear that he still had his touch. You watch him play because you don’t know where he’s going next, but you know it’s going to sound great.

Give credit to Richards, Mick Jagger, Charlie Watts and Wood for bringing Taylor back for this tour. The Stones don’t really need him; they’re a monster touring act that can sell out arenas on their own.

But this particular rock corporation started off as a humble blues band. When Taylor takes the stage, however briefly, we can truly see back 50 years to the band’s roots.

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Date: May 14, 2013 15:57

<Taylor played lead guitar on what many consider the Stones’ three greatest albums -- “Let it Bleed>

I stopped there... smiling smiley

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: DonParker ()
Date: May 14, 2013 16:19

---

Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: May 14, 2013 16:26

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Taylor played lead guitar on what many consider the Stones’ three greatest albums -- “Let it Bleed>

I stopped there... smiling smiley


Re: Mick Taylor anwers the question.
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: May 14, 2013 16:35

Quote
sonomastone
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Doxa
Quote
Mathijs
Funny thing is -I listened to the San Jose 2013 version of Rambler, and during the first shuffle jam Taylor starts to solo. Within 30 seconds he starts noodling again, playing these useless fake jazz fusion runs. I am absolutely sure Keith wanted to shout at that moment 'shut the fvck up' again, just like he did in '72.

Mathijs

Mathijs's own fetisse... no one else has ever heard that from LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, but he is keep on circulating it as a fact....grinning smiley

- Doxa





At 3:12.





Mathijs

great clip, thanks for posting. and keith was right, mt was hurting the performance.

Here's Taylor's answer, and what an answer it is! Just one year later and Keith keeps his mouth shut:




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