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jackflash1129
My personal opinion is that in the 60s the Beatles were killing the stones, and likewise Zeppelin in the seventies..
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SonicDreamer
In the 1970s, when Led Zeppelin were an active force they outsold the Stones both on record sales, concert attendance figures and revenue (particularly in the USA).
Cheers,
SonicD
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stanloveQuote
jackflash1129
My personal opinion is that in the 60s the Beatles were killing the stones, and likewise Zeppelin in the seventies..
I don't know how anyone could think that Zeppelin was killing the Stones in the 1970s? In rock lore I think their output was neck and neck in the 70s.
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stanloveQuote
SonicDreamer
In the 1970s, when Led Zeppelin were an active force they outsold the Stones both on record sales, concert attendance figures and revenue (particularly in the USA).
Cheers,
SonicD
They outsold the Stones in concert attendance only because they toured more. The Stones were the bigger attraction when they did tour and drew the bigger crowds and higher gross despite what Zeppelin myth says.
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Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
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pricepittsburgh
Zeppelin may have toured more, but that's because the demand for them was sick. I'm not saying the Stones couldn't have toured almost every year also, but they only toured North America every three years, 69, 72, 75, 78 and 81. We could assume that the build up, from them being off the road for three years each time, aided in them being n such demand when they returned. Zeppelin remained in the highest of demand without taking years off and had to constantly add new dates and shows to almost every spot they scheduled to play.
I'm 45 in July, born in 1970. The firs time I ever remember hearing about who the Rolling Stones were, was in 1979 on the Heroes of Rock and Roll documentary, hosted by Jeff Bridges. So they weren't a current to me at age 9. The Bee Gees were current to me and the Beatles felt current because the Red and Blue albums were all over the town, in both vinyl and 8 track. A year later in 1980 I remember hearing Emotional Rescue and She's So Cold on the radio a lot and being told it was the Stones. When I would hear older 70s songs like Fool to Cry, Heartbreaker and IORR, I remember thinking I must have heard them as a small child in the mid 70s because they were recognizable, although I didn't associate those titles to a band when I was really young. However, Led Zeppelin was everywhere. I remember the name Led Zeppelin when I was around 7 in 77. That's the year Elvis died and the first year I remember being aware of Popular music names. Led Zeppelin was one of them. The Rolling Stones were not, at that point, to me. Not that it means much, I was just a dumb kid. But I'm just using it to make a point that even a young kid from West Virginia knew of Zeppelin in the late 70s.
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stanlove
I was around at the time and it seemed like the Stones tours were the bigger deal.
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Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
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roller99
I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
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roller99
I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
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NaturalustQuote
roller99
I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
What a great friggin' idea! lmfao. No doubt Page stole his share of ideas from others, but often times he was pretty good at developing them to a point they were something else entirely. And in the end, in some cases, we've got to be grateful because, for instance, what Zep did with Stairway was heads and shoulders above what Spirit did with the original lick, imo. As a fan the theft thing bothers me much less because the end result was so good.
Still lots of respect to Zeppelin for calling it quits when Bonham died.
peace
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roller99Quote
NaturalustQuote
roller99
I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
What a great friggin' idea! lmfao. No doubt Page stole his share of ideas from others, but often times he was pretty good at developing them to a point they were something else entirely. And in the end, in some cases, we've got to be grateful because, for instance, what Zep did with Stairway was heads and shoulders above what Spirit did with the original lick, imo. As a fan the theft thing bothers me much less because the end result was so good.
Still lots of respect to Zeppelin for calling it quits when Bonham died.
peace
I know, I agree with you. I'm still a big LZ fan, they were an awesome band whether they stole or not. They could be in the room with you playing "happy birthday" and you'd be blown away...
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roller99Quote
Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
They aren't just allegations. Spirit used to open for LZ and Jimmy ripped the guitar progression off. If you ask Jimmy about plagiarism, he blames Robert for not changing the lyrics. If you ask Robert, he sneers at you and then tells you to talk to Jimmy. All but three of the songs on the first album are covers (rip offs). LZ had a great sound, but not a lot of talent as song writers. I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
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pricepittsburghQuote
roller99Quote
Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
They aren't just allegations. Spirit used to open for LZ and Jimmy ripped the guitar progression off. If you ask Jimmy about plagiarism, he blames Robert for not changing the lyrics. If you ask Robert, he sneers at you and then tells you to talk to Jimmy. All but three of the songs on the first album are covers (rip offs). LZ had a great sound, but not a lot of talent as song writers. I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
The Zep stealing claims are highly overblown. Because of a few lawsuits that resulted in them having to add credits of original lyric or melody writers (Never both) people assume that all their covers or reworked songs didn't give proper credit from the start. On I Can’t Quit You Baby, they did give credit to Willie Dixon from the start on their debut album, as well as You Shook Me. The same goes for When the Levee Breaks on Zeppelin IV. They gave credit to Memphis Minnie from the start. Also, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You was listed by Zeppelin as Traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page, because that's the way it was listed on Joan Baez’ version. There was no internet back then. If a record said traditional, then Zeppelin assumed it was accurate. And no one tried to sue Joan Baez for getting it wrong, did they? Of course not, because Zeppelin is where the money was. So much for integrity of the original poet. As for Dazed and Confused, their lyrics were totally original, but they took the bass line and title. Had they changed the name, I doubt anyone would have noticed because they added so much to it even beyond their original lyrics. Chester Burnett was only able to sue over the lyrics of the Lemon Song, because some of the lyrics were the same, but they did originally give credit to Burnett on the early UK pressings of Zeppelin II, and they called the song by its original title Killin Floor. Dixon only sued over A Whole Lotta Love for the same reason, because of some of the lyrics.But no one sued Steve Mariott for his earlier reworking of Dixon's You Need Love, which used even more similar lyrics than Zep used. Again, a money thing, not an integrity or ethical one. The suit by Dixon over Bring it on Home was misleading. Zeps song was all an original song except for the intro which paid tribute to Sonny Boy Williamson's style, and the suit over Boogie With Stu was another lame one because they gave credit to Ritchie Valens mom, but the Publishing Company wanted paid and didn't care. Gallows Pole was always listed as traditional too. Lead Belly did not write it. Same with Nobody’s Fault but Mine, Custard Pie and In My Time of Dying. All three of those tracks were first recorded by Blind Willie Johnson, but he wrote none of them. People want to assume Johnson and others who had popular recordings, wrote them when they did not. Now with Stairway, we’re talking about a very short section of the intro that was probably deep in Page’s subconscious from hearing it previously. Stairway changes dramatically after that. The link below shows you how many songs use that intro even before Spirit and Zeppelin.
[www.youtube.com]
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pricepittsburghQuote
roller99Quote
Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
They aren't just allegations. Spirit used to open for LZ and Jimmy ripped the guitar progression off. If you ask Jimmy about plagiarism, he blames Robert for not changing the lyrics. If you ask Robert, he sneers at you and then tells you to talk to Jimmy. All but three of the songs on the first album are covers (rip offs). LZ had a great sound, but not a lot of talent as song writers. I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
The Zep stealing claims are highly overblown. Because of a few lawsuits that resulted in them having to add credits of original lyric or melody writers (Never both) people assume that all their covers or reworked songs didn't give proper credit from the start. On I Can’t Quit You Baby, they did give credit to Willie Dixon from the start on their debut album, as well as You Shook Me. The same goes for When the Levee Breaks on Zeppelin IV. They gave credit to Memphis Minnie from the start. Also, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You was listed by Zeppelin as Traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page, because that's the way it was listed on Joan Baez’ version. There was no internet back then. If a record said traditional, then Zeppelin assumed it was accurate. And no one tried to sue Joan Baez for getting it wrong, did they? Of course not, because Zeppelin is where the money was. So much for integrity of the original poet. As for Dazed and Confused, their lyrics were totally original, but they took the bass line and title. Had they changed the name, I doubt anyone would have noticed because they added so much to it even beyond their original lyrics. Chester Burnett was only able to sue over the lyrics of the Lemon Song, because some of the lyrics were the same, but they did originally give credit to Burnett on the early UK pressings of Zeppelin II, and they called the song by its original title Killin Floor. Dixon only sued over A Whole Lotta Love for the same reason, because of some of the lyrics.But no one sued Steve Mariott for his earlier reworking of Dixon's You Need Love, which used even more similar lyrics than Zep used. Again, a money thing, not an integrity or ethical one. The suit by Dixon over Bring it on Home was misleading. Zeps song was all an original song except for the intro which paid tribute to Sonny Boy Williamson's style, and the suit over Boogie With Stu was another lame one because they gave credit to Ritchie Valens mom, but the Publishing Company wanted paid and didn't care. Gallows Pole was always listed as traditional too. Lead Belly did not write it. Same with Nobody’s Fault but Mine, Custard Pie and In My Time of Dying. All three of those tracks were first recorded by Blind Willie Johnson, but he wrote none of them. People want to assume Johnson and others who had popular recordings, wrote them when they did not. Now with Stairway, we’re talking about a very short section of the intro that was probably deep in Page’s subconscious from hearing it previously. Stairway changes dramatically after that. The link below shows you how many songs use that intro even before Spirit and Zeppelin.
[www.youtube.com]
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treaclefingersQuote
pricepittsburghQuote
roller99Quote
Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
They aren't just allegations. Spirit used to open for LZ and Jimmy ripped the guitar progression off. If you ask Jimmy about plagiarism, he blames Robert for not changing the lyrics. If you ask Robert, he sneers at you and then tells you to talk to Jimmy. All but three of the songs on the first album are covers (rip offs). LZ had a great sound, but not a lot of talent as song writers. I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
The Zep stealing claims are highly overblown. Because of a few lawsuits that resulted in them having to add credits of original lyric or melody writers (Never both) people assume that all their covers or reworked songs didn't give proper credit from the start. On I Can’t Quit You Baby, they did give credit to Willie Dixon from the start on their debut album, as well as You Shook Me. The same goes for When the Levee Breaks on Zeppelin IV. They gave credit to Memphis Minnie from the start. Also, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You was listed by Zeppelin as Traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page, because that's the way it was listed on Joan Baez’ version. There was no internet back then. If a record said traditional, then Zeppelin assumed it was accurate. And no one tried to sue Joan Baez for getting it wrong, did they? Of course not, because Zeppelin is where the money was. So much for integrity of the original poet. As for Dazed and Confused, their lyrics were totally original, but they took the bass line and title. Had they changed the name, I doubt anyone would have noticed because they added so much to it even beyond their original lyrics. Chester Burnett was only able to sue over the lyrics of the Lemon Song, because some of the lyrics were the same, but they did originally give credit to Burnett on the early UK pressings of Zeppelin II, and they called the song by its original title Killin Floor. Dixon only sued over A Whole Lotta Love for the same reason, because of some of the lyrics.But no one sued Steve Mariott for his earlier reworking of Dixon's You Need Love, which used even more similar lyrics than Zep used. Again, a money thing, not an integrity or ethical one. The suit by Dixon over Bring it on Home was misleading. Zeps song was all an original song except for the intro which paid tribute to Sonny Boy Williamson's style, and the suit over Boogie With Stu was another lame one because they gave credit to Ritchie Valens mom, but the Publishing Company wanted paid and didn't care. Gallows Pole was always listed as traditional too. Lead Belly did not write it. Same with Nobody’s Fault but Mine, Custard Pie and In My Time of Dying. All three of those tracks were first recorded by Blind Willie Johnson, but he wrote none of them. People want to assume Johnson and others who had popular recordings, wrote them when they did not. Now with Stairway, we’re talking about a very short section of the intro that was probably deep in Page’s subconscious from hearing it previously. Stairway changes dramatically after that. The link below shows you how many songs use that intro even before Spirit and Zeppelin.
[www.youtube.com]
I like your passion Pittsburgh, but in making your case you end up convincing me that zep were either huge plagiarists or idiots.
Don't go into the field of law!
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Turner68Quote
treaclefingersQuote
pricepittsburghQuote
roller99Quote
Turner68
[www.torontosun.com]
Spirit is suing Led Zeppelin and asking them to stop selling Led Zep IV until they pay up or take Stairway off the album.
Seems like the allegations just won't go away.
They aren't just allegations. Spirit used to open for LZ and Jimmy ripped the guitar progression off. If you ask Jimmy about plagiarism, he blames Robert for not changing the lyrics. If you ask Robert, he sneers at you and then tells you to talk to Jimmy. All but three of the songs on the first album are covers (rip offs). LZ had a great sound, but not a lot of talent as song writers. I wish someone would put out an album of LZ songs, and claim they wrote them.
The Zep stealing claims are highly overblown. Because of a few lawsuits that resulted in them having to add credits of original lyric or melody writers (Never both) people assume that all their covers or reworked songs didn't give proper credit from the start. On I Can’t Quit You Baby, they did give credit to Willie Dixon from the start on their debut album, as well as You Shook Me. The same goes for When the Levee Breaks on Zeppelin IV. They gave credit to Memphis Minnie from the start. Also, Babe I’m Gonna Leave You was listed by Zeppelin as Traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page, because that's the way it was listed on Joan Baez’ version. There was no internet back then. If a record said traditional, then Zeppelin assumed it was accurate. And no one tried to sue Joan Baez for getting it wrong, did they? Of course not, because Zeppelin is where the money was. So much for integrity of the original poet. As for Dazed and Confused, their lyrics were totally original, but they took the bass line and title. Had they changed the name, I doubt anyone would have noticed because they added so much to it even beyond their original lyrics. Chester Burnett was only able to sue over the lyrics of the Lemon Song, because some of the lyrics were the same, but they did originally give credit to Burnett on the early UK pressings of Zeppelin II, and they called the song by its original title Killin Floor. Dixon only sued over A Whole Lotta Love for the same reason, because of some of the lyrics.But no one sued Steve Mariott for his earlier reworking of Dixon's You Need Love, which used even more similar lyrics than Zep used. Again, a money thing, not an integrity or ethical one. The suit by Dixon over Bring it on Home was misleading. Zeps song was all an original song except for the intro which paid tribute to Sonny Boy Williamson's style, and the suit over Boogie With Stu was another lame one because they gave credit to Ritchie Valens mom, but the Publishing Company wanted paid and didn't care. Gallows Pole was always listed as traditional too. Lead Belly did not write it. Same with Nobody’s Fault but Mine, Custard Pie and In My Time of Dying. All three of those tracks were first recorded by Blind Willie Johnson, but he wrote none of them. People want to assume Johnson and others who had popular recordings, wrote them when they did not. Now with Stairway, we’re talking about a very short section of the intro that was probably deep in Page’s subconscious from hearing it previously. Stairway changes dramatically after that. The link below shows you how many songs use that intro even before Spirit and Zeppelin.
[www.youtube.com]
I like your passion Pittsburgh, but in making your case you end up convincing me that zep were either huge plagiarists or idiots.
Don't go into the field of law!
i had the same reaction! for most bands/performers you can find 1-2 controversies like this, that's just how the music business is. but when there is a long, long list it's hard to just explain it all away.
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RS
I got to give it to Stones. Zeppelin is great but there's only one great song I that comes to mind: Stairway to Heaven! Stones although have many I can list.
STONES!
-RS