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Title5Take1
It's obviously dubious to cross certain lines, but two things amuse me in this area:

1) Men who've admiringly appraised teen girls...and then they have daughters of their own, when suddenly such appraising is horrendous! Nothing like having a daughter to alter a man's moral compass....

2) Those middle-aged women who act outraged at the idea of older men being attracted to teen girls...and their outrage is obviously at the fact that they're past their prime and the teen girls are just entering theirs. As H.G. Wells's said, "Moral outrage is jealousy with a halo."

Yeah that's totally it. When I was a teen I thought it was gross when some old guy (anyone over 30 at that point) was hitting on me. I thought they were creeps even then. And now that I'm older it has nothing to do with being "past my prime"(by the way you do know women hit their sexual peaks around 35-45ish right) I just think that guys like that don't want an equal, they want some younger girl not just because she's "fresh" but because they want someone who'll buy all the bs they spew and boost their sad egos.

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LillithFlair

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Title5Take1
It's obviously dubious to cross certain lines, but two things amuse me in this area:

1) Men who've admiringly appraised teen girls...and then they have daughters of their own, when suddenly such appraising is horrendous! Nothing like having a daughter to alter a man's moral compass....

2) Those middle-aged women who act outraged at the idea of older men being attracted to teen girls...and their outrage is obviously at the fact that they're past their prime and the teen girls are just entering theirs. As H.G. Wells's said, "Moral outrage is jealousy with a halo."

Yeah that's totally it. When I was a teen I thought it was gross when some old guy (anyone over 30 at that point) was hitting on me. I thought they were creeps even then. And now that I'm older it has nothing to do with being "past my prime"(by the way you do know women hit their sexual peaks around 35-45ish right) I just think that guys like that don't want an equal, they want some younger girl not just because she's "fresh" but because they want someone who'll buy all the bs they spew and boost their sad egos.

agreed, quite pathetic.

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dcba
"Wyman should be knocked big time for this, he is a pedo"

Being a pedo means you put your penis into someone who's 5 3 or 10. Afaik Bill didn't do this... And I guess you're American cos in Europe sexual majority is FIFTEEN (could be 13 in some Northern places).

...

Yes,you're right dcba.

Pedophilia means any sexual interest and act in young children ,as you wrote.
It's one of the main forbidden behaviour,with the incest one.


At 14 ,a girl or a boy isn't a child anymore ,especially nowadays when many 12 years old girls look like 15 or 16.
Mandy definitely didn't look like a 14 years old girl,but more an 18 one.


I think that what bothers much more people here -included myself because if my daughter would sleep at the age of 14 with a 50 years old man, I bet that I will just blew his nose - is the fact that Bill was so "old" compared to her.

What if Mandy had slept with a boy of her age at 14 ?

PS : I can't help but saying that if I am not mistaken ,the current obsession with doing away -waxing or shaving - all women or men's hair ( I mean " down there" ) comes from USA .
It just makes women looking like little girls.

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SwayStones

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dcba
"Wyman should be knocked big time for this, he is a pedo"

Being a pedo means you put your penis into someone who's 5 3 or 10. Afaik Bill didn't do this... And I guess you're American cos in Europe sexual majority is FIFTEEN (could be 13 in some Northern places).

...

Yes,you're right dcba.

Pedophilia means any sexual interest and act in young children ,as you wrote.
It's one of the main forbidden behaviour,with the incest one.


At 14 ,a girl or a boy isn't a child anymore ,especially nowadays when many 12 years old girls look like 15 or 16.
Mandy definitely didn't look like a 14 years old girl,but more an 18 one.


I think that what bothers much more people here -included myself because if my daughter would sleep at the age of 14 with a 50 years old man, I bet that I will just blew his nose - is the fact that Bill was so "old" compared to her.

What if Mandy had slept with a boy of her age at 14 ?

PS : I can't help but saying that if I am not mistaken ,the current obsession with doing away -waxing or shaving - all women or men's hair ( I mean " down there" ) comes from USA .
It just makes women looking like little girls.

I think you're WAY too hung up on the 'physical' aspects of this, then the mental/emotional. Mentally and emotionally, these are children. Perhaps you are right, regarding a 14 year old, vs. a 50 year old. But here, we are getting into a bit more definition as to what defines abuse. A 14 and 13 year old may be getting into something that would be best left for a couple of years, but a 50 year old IS abusing a 13 year old, using their age, wisdom, power, money, what have you, to do what they are doing.

Don't gimme...she looked like she was 18. Bill knew WAY before he did anything with her, her age.

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treaclefingers

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Sleepy City
Americans still go to school at 17? Where I live most of the women have 2 or 3 kids by then.

And so that's working really well where you live by the sounds of it....single mother welfare society.

Actually I was half-joking, but (a) The UK has one of the highest ages of consent (16) in Europe, & (b) It also has the highest rate of pregnancies amongst under 16s! So those countries where the age of consent is lower must have better education & / or stricter morals... or perhaps it's just because when something is legal then they're more likely to seek sexual &/or medical advice? It was for this reason that the age of homosexual consent was lowered to 16 (instead of 18) too some years back.

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treaclefingers

I think you're WAY too hung up on the 'physical' aspects of this, then the mental/emotional. Mentally and emotionally, these are children. Perhaps you are right, regarding a 14 year old, vs. a 50 year old. But here, we are getting into a bit more definition as to what defines abuse. A 14 and 13 year old may be getting into something that would be best left for a couple of years, but a 50 year old IS abusing a 13 year old, using their age, wisdom, power, money, what have you, to do what they are doing.

.

That's what I was trying to say ,treaclefingers.
The main thing here is that she was 14,looking 18 may be but Bill knew he was 14.
And he was 50 .

I can conceive that a 14 or 15 years old girl can be attracted by an older man -wasn't I attracted myself by Jagger when I was 15 ? - but Jagger was 32/33 ,not 50 .

I agree with you when you say that <<Mentally and emotionally, these are children<<

That's true, it seems they don't know what they are talking about ,they don't know what the word "sexual desire" means ,but still,they act and dress like if they knew.
Scaring .

I don't think that calling Bill a pedophile is fair ,though.
As far as I know,he never assault sexually a 3 or ten years old girl .
It makes a big difference .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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SwayStones

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treaclefingers

I think you're WAY too hung up on the 'physical' aspects of this, then the mental/emotional. Mentally and emotionally, these are children. Perhaps you are right, regarding a 14 year old, vs. a 50 year old. But here, we are getting into a bit more definition as to what defines abuse. A 14 and 13 year old may be getting into something that would be best left for a couple of years, but a 50 year old IS abusing a 13 year old, using their age, wisdom, power, money, what have you, to do what they are doing.

.

That's what I was trying to say ,treaclefingers.
The main thing here is that she was 14,looking 18 may be but Bill knew he was 14.
And he was 50 .

I can conceive that a 14 or 15 years old girl can be attracted by an older man -wasn't I attracted myself by Jagger when I was 15 ? - but Jagger was 32/33 ,not 50 .

I agree with you when you say that <<Mentally and emotionally, these are children<<

That's true, it seems they don't know what they are talking about ,they don't know what the word "sexual desire" means ,but still,they act and dress like if they knew.
Scaring .

I don't think that calling Bill a pedophile is fair ,though.
As far as I know,he never assault sexually a 3 or ten years old girl .
It makes a big difference .

Well, these matters are not always black and white for sure...and you're right, it does make a big difference.

However, still creepy for my tastes.

Mick apparently felt it was appropriate to "wait"....

<< Raised in a rock-and-roll household, Mackenzie Phillips was always exposed to materials and behavior most families would find shocking. Her father was John Phillips of The Mamas and the Papas, and her stepmother was Michelle Phillips, also in the band. The biggest names in pop culture were frequent houseguests, and Phillips has said she started using marijuana and LSD when she was 12. She says that her father showed her how to shoot up when she was 18, and had sex with her when she was 19. She says she was aggressively seduced by Mick Jagger, visiting in the Phillips home, who told her, "I've been waiting to do this since you were ten years old." >>

[www.nndb.com]

I saw on YouTube a girl-band singing Stray Cat Blues, which was funny.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-17 10:16 by Title5Take1.

Personally I fancy most women between the ages of 16 & 70!

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hot stuff
Bill was not in really big trouble because Mandy's Mom
was ok with it...In fact she started dating Bill's son Steve....


Keep it in the family!! FAMILY---Good song..ha.

Ok: if Bill and Mandy had gotten a child, I wonder what it had to call Bill's son. Now if Bill's son and Mandy's mom....

I wouldn't categorize Bill's situation as pedophilia, as that term suggest coersion, abuse etc....
But it's morally questionable.
Personally, I think its disgusting.
I always suspected that Bill is the most chauvinistic of all the Stones. His book revealed a rather sexist bent when talking about "birds" and dollies" etc...
Does anybody remember that story about Bill allegedly hitting Astrid. I can't remember what book this was in, but I in it, it stated that while on tour, Astrid would go to Mick's room when Bill was being an ass. In another anecdote, there was a incident where Astrid was "attacked" and Bill, there at the time, hid somewere rather than trying to do something and Mick and Keith were disgusted with him or something to that effect.
I don't how true these stories are and wondered if anyone else has read them and where....
It could explain why Mick and Keith have never been close to Bill.

First off, I don't think Keith and Bill have ever been close. There seems to be some of chemical imbalance to their relationship. But, if I'm not mistaken, Mick and Bill have always gotten along, and continue to socialize to this day. And I doubt that Charlie would be still close friends with Bill if he thought Bill was a creep. I have never read any such stories concerning Bill's alleged cowardice or hitting women. Not like I've read about Brian.

That being said, it is cruel what nature does to a man. I don't know what women go through, but men are generally attracted to younger women, no matter what the man's actual age is. It's cruel. It would be great to be attracted to fat, old women when you get older. There's a lot of them around and you would have more in common. Only a man with money, or masterful manipulation skills, can still get young, attractive women when the man is older. But men aren't. Just like women aren't attracted to middle aged men without money.

I don't know the details of Bill's relationship with Mandy, or if legal age parameters were skirted. I would hope not, but I'm sure many of us have flirted or crossed those boundaries over the years. Legally, any American guy or girl, whether their just 18 years and a day, is committing rape if they have sex with a boy or girl 17 years, 364 days old, or younger. It's silly, but it's legal.

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SweetThing
Mick apparently felt it was appropriate to "wait"....

<< She says she was aggressively seduced by Mick Jagger, visiting in the Phillips home, who told her, "I've been waiting to do this since you were ten years old." >>

[www.nndb.com]

That's SIR Mick Jagger.

Interesting interview with Smith from 2010.

Wyman chat starts at 1:37

[www.youtube.com]

.....

Olly.

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Olly
Interesting interview with Smith from 2010.

Wyman chat starts at 1:37

[www.youtube.com]

A lot of crotchety and petty moralizing on this (resuscitated) thread. (It seems someone was in the mood for a Mandy Smith google.) ‘Precocious’ is just a polite word for cock-starved. I reckon if a man is ever gonna break the law it would be to accommodate the urges of a wet & willing 14 y/o. Depends on the girl’s shape of course.

Have some sympathy for Bill. No use crying only for the girl since both experienced the pain of love. And in the end both I suppose learned something about themselves and the way of the world. As humans all we can do is shag our way to enlightenment. But I can’t believe Bill was dumb enough to marry her. What a maroon!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-01 07:16 by Swayed1967.

Bill had some problems with French police in late 1986 regarding Mandy. The Stones were getting ready to launch a comeback tour in 1989. The decision to marry Mandy was the wisest move in that respect as well. The band mocked the situation with a T-shirt on the VOODOO LOUNGE tour noting they survive underage sex among other scandals. It's worth noting Bill's current wife had an affair with him when she was 17 years old. She's the subject of the songs, Come Back Suzanne and Seventeen that Bill cut in 1981. Finally, the incident referenced above with Bill hiding while Astrid was raped might be worth considering when playing Sad Sad Sad: I'm locked in the bathroom, your screams are going to drown me out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-01 07:40 by Rocky Dijon.

I think Bill's affair, at the time, was a bit to much to stomach even for The Rolling Stones. My thought is that it may even have contributed to Bill leaving the band in the early 90s.
Bill is a good bassplayer, that's it. His private life - that's another matter.

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Stoneage
I think Bill's affair, at the time, was a bit to much to stomach even for The Rolling Stones. My thought is that it may even have contributed to Bill leaving the band in the early 90s.
Bill is a good bassplayer, that's it. His private life - that's another matter.

Yes, he made rather a mess of his private life. He should've stayed with Astrid whilst continuing to bang teenyboppers/groupies on the side like he did in the sixties. But I highly doubt Bill's leaving the band had anything to do with his child-bride. I mean nothing could be more scandalous and damaging to the Stones' reputation than forcing a band member to quit over his sexcapades.

Sure, you're probably right. But some things are taboo even for a rock (or pop-) star. Ask Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Gary Glitter, Michael Jackson, George Michael or John Phillips.
Or, even worse, Phil Spector. Not every "sexcapade" is good PR!

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Stoneage
I think Bill's affair, at the time, was a bit to much to stomach even for The Rolling Stones. My thought is that it may even have contributed to Bill leaving the band in the early 90s.
Bill is a good bassplayer, that's it. His private life - that's another matter.

Yet they showed in their wedding...

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneage
I think Bill's affair, at the time, was a bit to much to stomach even for The Rolling Stones. My thought is that it may even have contributed to Bill leaving the band in the early 90s.
Bill is a good bassplayer, that's it. His private life - that's another matter.

Yet they showed in their wedding...

I think I remember seeing somewhere a short interview with Charlie Watts where at least he expressed some discontent with the whole story.

Personally, I always found the whole story rather disgusting. I know in this day and age, there is a certain fashion not to "judge" or be "morally correct", but I don't understand that fashion. Some things are wrong, and a 50 year old guy taking advantage of a 13 year old is clearly one of them.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneage
I think Bill's affair, at the time, was a bit to much to stomach even for The Rolling Stones. My thought is that it may even have contributed to Bill leaving the band in the early 90s.
Bill is a good bassplayer, that's it. His private life - that's another matter.

Yet they showed in their wedding...

I think I remember seeing somewhere a short interview with Charlie Watts where at least he expressed some discontent with the whole story.

Personally, I always found the whole story rather disgusting. I know in this day and age, there is a certain fashion not to "judge" or be "morally correct", but I don't understand that fashion. Some things are wrong, and a 50 year old guy taking advantage of a 13 year old is clearly one of them.

I agree totally. It was embarrassing..

[www.youtube.com]


Jerry ...Ronnie Charlie and Keeeef ....



ROCKMAN

Bill is absolutely disgusting for this, no 2 ways about it. I don't care how old she looked, or how in love he was, the point is she was a little CHILD and he was a 50 year old man! I'm 33 and I when I see a 14 year old girls I just consider them to be children, and not one sexual thought pops into my mind.

Keith: «That's another story»...

LOL!

It was embarrassing and wrong, and he knows it's embarrassing and knows it's wrong. But she hasn't taken it to the legal authorities, Bill offered himself to the legal authorities they said no. That is good enough for me to leave this sad, embarrassing event lie.


The sad fact is, is that when he dies, it will be this story that dominates and no attention will be given to his contribution to British culture as part of the greatest rock n roll band ever. His obituary is already written for him, there will be a very small media presence and the Stones will issue a 2 line statement, and that will be Bill Wyman gone. That surely is punishment enough that he has brought on himself.

When they marries Mandy was 18....what's the matter with that...

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Come On
When they marries Mandy was 18....what's the matter with that...

But she was 13 when they...

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
When they marries Mandy was 18....what's the matter with that...

But she was 13 when they...

Ohh when Bill started giving her ice-cream and pop-ups when they were at Zoo you mean...

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