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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
When they marries Mandy was 18....what's the matter with that...

But she was 13 when they...

Ohh when Bill started giving her ice-cream and pop-ups when they were at Zoo you mean...

Yep..

One of the more unsavoury and questionable chapters in Wyman's life, certainly. Only he knows what drove him towards a barely-teenage Mandy Smith. Whilst I believe it to be certain that many of the days' pop-stars may have unknowingly engaged in sexual activity with minors, it's Wyman's knowing that claws at ones' conscience and inherent sene of right and wrong.

Let's also not throw the term "pedophilia" around so loosely. That refers to pre-pubescent children, NOT teenagers.

I'm certainly not advocating having sex with 14 or 15 year olds, but it's totally different from pedophilia.

And can we guys all admit the obvious? We've ALL seen underage teen girls that were developed far more than their years would indicate.

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keefriff99
Let's also not throw the term "pedophilia" around so loosely. That refers to pre-pubescent children, NOT teenagers.

I'm certainly not advocating having sex with 14 or 15 year olds, but it's totally different from pedophilia.

And can we guys all admit the obvious? We've ALL seen underage teen girls that were developed far more than their years would indicate.

The simple lesson is this: dirty old men like Bill should learn to restrain their urges and keep it zipped. If the fool had done so, he'd solely be thought of as the one-time bassist of the Rolling Stones. Despite my earlier points, I am not convinced he won't be solely remembered as such.

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Big Al

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keefriff99
Let's also not throw the term "pedophilia" around so loosely. That refers to pre-pubescent children, NOT teenagers.

I'm certainly not advocating having sex with 14 or 15 year olds, but it's totally different from pedophilia.

And can we guys all admit the obvious? We've ALL seen underage teen girls that were developed far more than their years would indicate.

The simple lesson is this: dirty old men like Bill should learn to restrain their urges and keep it zipped. If the fool had done so, he'd solely be thought of as the one-time bassist of the Rolling Stones. Despite my earlier points, I am not convinced he won't be solely remembered as such.

Of course. Guys sometimes can't help but look, but just don't ACT on it.

Bit of Lolita story there with ole Bill. It always seemed to me that he must have been in the grips of a somewhat pathetic midlife crisis, I bet he looks back on the whole thing with embarrassment and regret.

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Stoneage
Sure, you're probably right. But some things are taboo even for a rock (or pop-) star. Ask Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Gary Glitter, Michael Jackson, George Michael or John Phillips.
Or, even worse, Phil Spector. Not every "sexcapade" is good PR!

You could also add:
Elvis Presley, that good 'ol baptist boy
Jimmy Page
Waddy Watchell (just downloading though, I believe)
Roman Polanski
P J Proby
Sir Jimmy Saville
Brian Jones
....and countless others from the wacky world of show biz.
And we haven't even mentioned hard drugs yet.

No matter how you spin or compare with other people one word still and always will come to my mind.... WRONG

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Rocky Dijon
Bill had some problems with French police in late 1986 regarding Mandy. The Stones were getting ready to launch a comeback tour in 1989. The decision to marry Mandy was the wisest move in that respect as well. The band mocked the situation with a T-shirt on the VOODOO LOUNGE tour noting they survive underage sex among other scandals. It's worth noting Bill's current wife had an affair with him when she was 17 years old. She's the subject of the songs, Come Back Suzanne and Seventeen that Bill cut in 1981. Finally, the incident referenced above with Bill hiding while Astrid was raped might be worth considering when playing Sad Sad Sad: I'm locked in the bathroom, your screams are going to drown me out.

Actually Suzanne Wyman was born in June 1959.
An American, living in Paris...shades of Jerry Hall?
So when she first met up with Bill, in 1980.. she would, by my calculation be aged 21 years of age.
Happy to be corrected of course.

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jlowe

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Stoneage
Sure, you're probably right. But some things are taboo even for a rock (or pop-) star. Ask Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Gary Glitter, Michael Jackson, George Michael or John Phillips.
Or, even worse, Phil Spector. Not every "sexcapade" is good PR!

You could also add:
Elvis Presley, that good 'ol baptist boy
Jimmy Page
Waddy Watchell (just downloading though, I believe)
Roman Polanski
P J Proby
Sir Jimmy Saville
Brian Jones
....and countless others from the wacky world of show biz.
And we haven't even mentioned hard drugs yet.

Wasn't Saville posthumously stripped of his knighthood? A child-abuser and lover of dead bodies. He's almost not worth mentioning. One would surely struggle to think of too many more vile from recent history.

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jlowe
Actually Suzanne Wyman was born in June 1959.
An American, living in Paris...shades of Jerry Hall?
So when she first met up with Bill, in 1980.. she would, by my calculation be aged 21 years of age.
Happy to be corrected of course.

You're correct, but I believe Suzanne and Bill's fling was in the seventies. The songs were written and recorded once he went back to the studio in 1980/1981. Also, I don't believe Suzanne is an American. Nor is the girl in the song or songs for that matter. If you want to speculate on Jerry's earliest appearance, think "the rose of San Antone."

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Big Al
The simple lesson is this: dirty old men like Bill should learn to restrain their urges and keep it zipped. If the fool had done so, he'd solely be thought of as the one-time bassist of the Rolling Stones. Despite my earlier points, I am not convinced he won't be solely remembered as such.

He's also known for his coin collection.

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Rocky Dijon

Also, I don't believe Suzanne is an American."

Your belief is wrong. She's American.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

A piece from 2006:

It was his failing relationship with Mandy that led to his leaving the Stones.

Seriously, the 60s groups, especially the British invasion groups regularly had sex with under aged girls and probably boys too! Certainly under 16. The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, The Stones... for sure, in fact many an interview has confirmed this. Stray Cat Blues anyone?

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whitem8
Seriously, the 60s groups, especially the British invasion groups regularly had sex with under aged girls and probably boys too! Certainly under 16. The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, The Stones... for sure, in fact many an interview has confirmed this. Stray Cat Blues anyone?

For sure, but there' a big difference between an 18 to 20 year old pop star having sex with a 16 year old and a 50 year old having sex with a 14 year old. Even the other band members were appalled at Bill's relationship with Mandy.

Bill is a creepy guy. Today he would have been arrested.

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latebloomer

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whitem8
Seriously, the 60s groups, especially the British invasion groups regularly had sex with under aged girls and probably boys too! Certainly under 16. The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, The Stones... for sure, in fact many an interview has confirmed this. Stray Cat Blues anyone?

For sure, but there' a big difference between an 18 to 20 year old pop star having sex with a 16 year old and a 50 year old having sex with a 14 year old. Even the other band members were appalled at Bill's relationship with Mandy.

He didn't actually start having sex with her until she was 16.

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whitem8
Seriously, the 60s groups, especially the British invasion groups regularly had sex with under aged girls and probably boys too! Certainly under 16. The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, The Stones... for sure, in fact many an interview has confirmed this. Stray Cat Blues anyone?

A fair point, of course. However, I would sincerely hope Jagger wasn't advocating relations with a minor, regarding his rische lyrics to Stray Cat Blues; perhaps it was an attempt to highlight the problematic age-issue regarding pop-stars and their young female admirers, or merely an exercise in pushing a definite taboo and boundaries. I sincerely hope Jagger has never knowingly engaged in intercourse with a minor; ala Jimmy Page and that Maddox girl; who looked about 12 - Christ, what was Page thinking?

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TornAndFried

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latebloomer

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whitem8
Seriously, the 60s groups, especially the British invasion groups regularly had sex with under aged girls and probably boys too! Certainly under 16. The Beatles, The Who, The Kinks, The Stones... for sure, in fact many an interview has confirmed this. Stray Cat Blues anyone?

For sure, but there' a big difference between an 18 to 20 year old pop star having sex with a 16 year old and a 50 year old having sex with a 14 year old. Even the other band members were appalled at Bill's relationship with Mandy.

He didn't actually start having sex with her until she was 16.

Oh okay, well then no problem...pigs can fly too, Torn.

Bill claims they slept in the same bed for a couple years before he touched her. Mandy says they started having sex when she was 14. It doesn't really matter. The difference for most people is between the early Stones bedding fans in the 1960s (though they still could have faced criminal charges) and Bill doing the same with an underage girl when he was in his fifties. And yes, "Stray Cat Blues" is a nasty song and supposed to be nasty. Now have a listen to "Mama Rap" on Bill's STUFF album cut in either 1988 or 1991/1992 and see if the borrowing of "bet your mama don't know" doesn't seem just a tad creepier.

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Rocky Dijon
Bill claims they slept in the same bed for a couple years before he touched her. Mandy says they started having sex when she was 14. It doesn't really matter. The difference for most people is between the early Stones bedding fans in the 1960s (though they still could have faced criminal charges) and Bill doing the same with an underage girl when he was in his fifties. And yes, "Stray Cat Blues" is a nasty song and supposed to be nasty. Now have a listen to "Mama Rap" on Bill's STUFF album cut in either 1988 or 1991/1992 and see if the borrowing of "bet your mama don't know" doesn't seem just a tad creepier.

I doubt that the law would differentiate between a 22 year old bedding an underage girl...and a 52 year old. Its still illegal.

i would agree there is a huge difference between the early stones, in thier late teens and early 20,s sleeping with underage girls as there was in the case of bill wyman with mandy smith.

i thought it was creepy back then when the story broke when i was 18, now nearly 30 years on and with an 18 year old daughter, i have for years seen how wrong bill was. he should have stayed well clear, its not as if he was going to go short of women.

im wondering if he married her to close a chapter, make it look as if love was involved.

he was very lucky not to be arrested, and as for mandy smiths mother, what the hell did she do for brains.

I've always thought it was a strange double standard between the sexes when it comes to this issue. With older man/very young or underage girl the "ick" factor is quite strong, but if you reverse it and have an older woman with a much younger or underage boy, the reaction is often quite different, as in....that aboy!

I used to be more judgmental about it, but the older I get the more I feel it depends on the individuals. Sometimes it works out, as is the case with Charlie Chaplin and Oona O’Neill, whom he married when she was 18 and he was in his fifties. They went on to have six children and were supposedly devoted to one another. But by all accounts, Bill and Mandy were a disaster together.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-02 20:49 by latebloomer.

For what it's worth, the age difference between Mick Jagger and the American ballerina he has been "dating"recently is at least 10 years greater than that of Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith.

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TornAndFried
For what it's worth, the age difference between Mick Jagger and the American ballerina he has been "dating"recently is at least 10 years greater than that of Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith.

As long as both parties are over the age of consent, then the age difference between two people is NOBODY's business.

A 14 year old with a 25 year old is illegal. An 18 year old with a 75 year old is not.

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latebloomer
I've always thought it was a strange double standard between the sexes when it comes to this issue. With older man/very young or underage girl the "ick" factor is quite strong, but if you reverse it and have an older woman with a much younger or underage boy, the reaction is often quite different, as in....that aboy!

I used to be more judgmental about it, but the older I get the more I feel it depends on the individuals. Sometimes it works out, as is the case with Charlie Chaplin and Oona O’Neill, whom he married when she was 18 and he was in his fifties. They went on to have six children and were supposedly devoted to one another. But by all accounts, Bill and Mandy were a disaster together.

Chaplin was a known ephebophile (attracted to teenagers).

There's nothing biologically incorrect with a man of any age being attracted to a pubescent teen girl...society has set boundaries saying it's ethically wrong, but biologically, a man is supposed to be attracted to young women of child-bearing age.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-02 23:44 by keefriff99.

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DandelionPowderman
A piece from 2006:

It was his failing relationship with Mandy that led to his leaving the Stones.

Just to lighten the tone a bit. (though not for Bookeeper Bill).
In the excellent 2006 Guardian interview, Bill moans about how much or rather how little state pension he receives.
It does seem a paltry amount given that from leaving school at 16 he presumably has being paying his insurance contributions right up to when he reached 65.
He was of course a tax exile for 11 years but on its own that shouldnt deny him his right.
Any experts out there? I can't believe RS Ltd were so inept as to not pay his NI on his income. Its far more straightforward than paying tax of course.
Is it because his ongoing income and/or private pension monies is taken into account?

14? 16? What's the difference, really? If Mandy Smith felt she was ready to have sex with Bill at a young age who are we to judge. He didn't rape her or force her to do anything she didn't want to. And she seems fine today. Sex is overrated anyway.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-02 23:25 by TornAndFried.

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jlowe

I doubt that the law would differentiate between a 22 year old bedding an underage girl...and a 52 year old. Its still illegal.

The law wouldn't see the difference, but people generally do. That's the hot button in these discussions. If you have a 13 year old daughter involved with her 18 year old boyfriend, your reaction as a parent might still be outrage, but likely not as outraged as if she takes up with a middle-aged man. One situation generally is seen as less than ideal. The other is seen as a young person being taken advantage of. That's generally why everyone reacts or even overreacts when this topic comes up periodically. It's a cultural norm for most of the West.