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Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: February 24, 2019 23:53

Nice analysis of Ramble On

For what is should never be. Those opening two Jazz chords The A13 to E7 cement the groove and feel of the song as page builds up tempo of the song

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 25, 2019 20:10

Hey guys plz don't forget this thread is originally an online bludgeoning of LZ, its music and its members. grinning smiley
Plz post comments that follow that path...

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 25, 2019 20:16

The no good thieving ripoffs....scoundrels!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: February 25, 2019 20:21

very hard to say negative comments about LED music - best band, best drumming,best vocals,best bass, best guitar wizard off all time. yeah you can critize them for stealing but that has been going on since forever with any one that picks up an instrument and plays is influenced by the past. yes page got lazy and at times did not sit down and develop his own songs but took others and made them his own in the studio.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: February 26, 2019 01:34

Songhoy Blues-Kashmir.

[www.youtube.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Ket ()
Date: February 26, 2019 02:38

Quote
OpenG
very hard to say negative comments about LED music - best band, best drumming,best vocals,best bass, best guitar wizard off all time. yeah you can critize them for stealing but that has been going on since forever with any one that picks up an instrument and plays is influenced by the past. yes page got lazy and at times did not sit down and develop his own songs but took others and made them his own in the studio.
I think you summed it up, they were great at playing,producing and performing just not great at writing. So in my opinion it makes them a great band but not one of the top tier bands ever.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 26, 2019 03:50

Seems to me that the songs they may have "borrowed" from other artists/bands are in the minority of the big picture - down to a very small fraction really. Some people/critics will focus on those "borrowed" tunes and completely write them off as "ripoffs", but if they took some time to look and listen to the entire catalogue they would see how original and great they could be at not only writing their own material, but producing and performing as well. Top tier band? Without any doubt. They easily are amongst all the other great bands, and stand shoulder to shoulder with the very best.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: February 26, 2019 04:29

Quote
Hairball
Seems to me that the songs they may have "borrowed" from other artists/bands are in the minority of the big picture - down to a very small fraction really. Some people/critics will focus on those "borrowed" tunes and completely write them off as "ripoffs", but if they took some time to look and listen to the entire catalogue they would see how original and great they could be at not only writing their own material, but producing and performing as well. Top tier band? Without any doubt. They easily are amongst all the other great bands, and stand shoulder to shoulder with the very best.

Spot on! I know I've posted in this thread more than once a list of their numerous "non-borrowed" compositions...impressive and top tier indeed!

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 26, 2019 13:05

Quote
OpenG
very hard to say negative comments about LED music - best band, best drumming,best vocals,best bass, best guitar wizard off all time. yeah you can critize them for stealing but that has been going on since forever with any one that picks up an instrument and plays is influenced by the past. yes page got lazy and at times did not sit down and develop his own songs but took others and made them his own in the studio.
A very good description and such a favorite of mine when I was so young and impressionable . I absolutely loved Jimmy Page's guitar playing and Plant's vocal's and Bonzo's drumming one of the handful of heavyweight greatest of all time pounding the skins and Jones holding down the bass and keyboards and mandolin work .4 virtuoso talents that combined for an epiphany for the ears and soul . Such a short life span that there fire burned out too prematurely !

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: February 26, 2019 15:49

Quote
Hairball
Seems to me that the songs they may have "borrowed" from other artists/bands are in the minority of the big picture - down to a very small fraction really. Some people/critics will focus on those "borrowed" tunes and completely write them off as "ripoffs", but if they took some time to look and listen to the entire catalogue they would see how original and great they could be at not only writing their own material, but producing and performing as well. Top tier band? Without any doubt. They easily are amongst all the other great bands, and stand shoulder to shoulder with the very best.

That's just what I was thinking yesterday. One, the 'ripoffs' were on the first two records mainly, and two, in most cases it's got precious little to do with the music but comes down to Plant quoting lyrics at will.
These days Plant seems to gloat over the fact that for instance Nobodys Fault But Mine is actually a song by some blues singer from the 1920s, but obviously Page's guitar sounds nothing like the supposed original, let alone the fact that on that 'version' there were no bass or drums involved anyway.

I have never regarded Plant's lyrics as being anything other than a tip of the hat to their heroes, the great blues players of yore. Occasionally, they took it a bit too far, yes. One must keep in mind that those bluesmen&women used other people's material as well, in fact that was the tradition of the blues. For instance, it wouldn't be hard to find a lot of songs that Muddy Waters 'wrote' that go back directly to Robert Johnson and players before him.

The focus on originality when it comes to recorded music in the age of copyrights and publishing and all is at odds with that tradition. In fact, one might argue that, to a certain extent, it destroyed the blues, as being a matter of songs being passed over to the next generation. Now, of course rock music (or what you want to call it) is not really part of the blues tradition in that respect, but I don't think that rock n roll is particularly original in the first place. The same chords, same harmonics, same rhythms, same declamatory singing, same themes rule the genre, over and over again.
But you know what, it's still a lot of fun anyway...

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 26, 2019 17:10

Quote
TheGreek
Quote
OpenG
very hard to say negative comments about LED music - best band, best drumming,best vocals,best bass, best guitar wizard off all time. yeah you can critize them for stealing but that has been going on since forever with any one that picks up an instrument and plays is influenced by the past. yes page got lazy and at times did not sit down and develop his own songs but took others and made them his own in the studio.
A very good description and such a favorite of mine when I was so young and impressionable . I absolutely loved Jimmy Page's guitar playing and Plant's vocal's and Bonzo's drumming one of the handful of heavyweight greatest of all time pounding the skins and Jones holding down the bass and keyboards and mandolin work .4 virtuoso talents that combined for an epiphany for the ears and soul . Such a short life span that there fire burned out too prematurely !

I have VERY little to say negatively about Led Zep. Loved them in the 70's. Still do. Like our heroes, some of the songs have been over played (Stairway, Satisfaction, etc.) , but love the deeper cuts.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 26, 2019 17:11

In response to Elmo's brilliant post above, I'd like to mention "Down By The Seaside" and the much maligned "Carouselambra" as deep cuts I enjoy.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: February 26, 2019 17:50

I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 26, 2019 18:19

Quote
OpenG
I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

it is not 5-10 songs they ripped off. here is a partial list of songs that were originally not credited to anyone outside of led zeppelin that now have other writers also credited or still have no credit changes
whole lotta love
when the levee breaks
babe, I'm gonna leave you
dazed and confused
how many more times
the lemon song
tangerine
since I've been loving you
in my time of dying
black mountain side
trampled under foot
nobody's fault but mine
bron y aur stomp

those are just the ones I know of off the top of my head that borrow lyrics or music sections of other songs but weren't originally credit to anyone outside of led zeppelin. a lot of them have been fixed now due to lawsuits

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 26, 2019 19:37

Quote
Elmo Lewis
In response to Elmo's brilliant post above, I'd like to mention "Down By The Seaside" and the much maligned "Carouselambra" as deep cuts I enjoy.

Perfect song, and when the middle section kicks in it's like a giant wave forming, peaking, then crashing to oblivion, and finally settling down back to mellow and calm waters down by the seaside.

Either that, or it's like a giant freight train on the downhill descent nearly out of control that finally reaches the bottom and carries on peacefully down the tracks...

Or...

winking smiley

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:05

thumbs up

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: BluzDude ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:06

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
OpenG
I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

it is not 5-10 songs they ripped off. here is a partial list of songs that were originally not credited to anyone outside of led zeppelin that now have other writers also credited or still have no credit changes
whole lotta love
when the levee breaks
babe, I'm gonna leave you

dazed and confused
how many more times
the lemon song
tangerine
since I've been loving you
in my time of dying
black mountain side
trampled under foot
nobody's fault but mine
bron y aur stomp

those are just the ones I know of off the top of my head that borrow lyrics or music sections of other songs but weren't originally credit to anyone outside of led zeppelin. a lot of them have been fixed now due to lawsuits

Ummm. these songs were...

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 26, 2019 20:24

Quote
BluzDude
Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
OpenG
I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

it is not 5-10 songs they ripped off. here is a partial list of songs that were originally not credited to anyone outside of led zeppelin that now have other writers also credited or still have no credit changes
whole lotta love
when the levee breaks
babe, I'm gonna leave you

dazed and confused
how many more times
the lemon song
tangerine
since I've been loving you
in my time of dying
black mountain side
trampled under foot
nobody's fault but mine
bron y aur stomp

those are just the ones I know of off the top of my head that borrow lyrics or music sections of other songs but weren't originally credit to anyone outside of led zeppelin. a lot of them have been fixed now due to lawsuits

Ummm. these songs were...


those songs were what? not originally credited to the proper people.

history of the credit for babe
The band covered Baez's version; both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were fans of Baez. Baez's album had originally indicated no writing credit, and Led Zeppelin credited the song as "Trad. arr. Page". In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song and since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant. Bredon received a substantial back-payment of royalties



I cant find it but someone says that initial pressing of IV didn't properly credit the writer of levee but that it was a screw up by the label and not the band so if that's true then I guess that one can be removed

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:31

d by: keefriffhard4life ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:24

Quote
BluzDude
Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
OpenG
I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

it is not 5-10 songs they ripped off. here is a partial list of songs that were originally not credited to anyone outside of led zeppelin that now have other writers also credited or still have no credit changes
whole lotta love
when the levee breaks
babe, I'm gonna leave you
dazed and confused
how many more times
the lemon song
tangerine
since I've been loving you
in my time of dying
black mountain side
trampled under foot
nobody's fault but mine
bron y aur stomp

those are just the ones I know of off the top of my head that borrow lyrics or music sections of other songs but weren't originally credit to anyone outside of led zeppelin. a lot of them have been fixed now due to lawsuits

Ummm. these songs were...


those songs were what? not originally credited to the proper people.

history of the credit for babe
The band covered Baez's version; both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were fans of Baez. Baez's album had originally indicated no writing credit, and Led Zeppelin credited the song as "Trad. arr. Page". In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song and since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant. Bredon received a substantial back-payment of royalties



I cant find it but someone says that initial pressing of IV didn't properly credit the writer of levee but that it was a screw up by the label and not the band so if that's true then I guess that one can be removed

Yes I read that but anyway - A song like the Lemon Song - If they took that from some past blues player they always made it there own in studio- The Lemon
song has one of the best bass parts, drums, vocals and guitars all on one song.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: BluzDude ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:35

Levee - Memphis Minnie was given credit on the copy I had

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 26, 2019 22:56

Quote
BluzDude
Levee - Memphis Minnie was given credit on the copy I had

me too. turns out it was a test pressing that had something incorrect and it was the labels fault so no harm no foul on that one

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 26, 2019 23:03

Quote
OpenG
d by: keefriffhard4life ()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:24

Quote
BluzDude
Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
OpenG
I am guessing that they wrote like 80 to 95 songs and like everyone has said they might ripped off less than 5 to 10 I do not know . So their body of work is out for their legacy. They have sold over 300 million albums and I think I read somewhere recently that they have 9 records still in the top 100( please correct me if I am wrong about what I have read do not want to spew misinformation). Page was a genius in the studio producing the records. Overall I likes plant's lyrics and his mystical storytelling making reference to Tolkien Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in some of the songs. As a hack guitar player I love page's guitar parts and they are very fun to play around with.

it is not 5-10 songs they ripped off. here is a partial list of songs that were originally not credited to anyone outside of led zeppelin that now have other writers also credited or still have no credit changes
whole lotta love
when the levee breaks
babe, I'm gonna leave you
dazed and confused
how many more times
the lemon song
tangerine
since I've been loving you
in my time of dying
black mountain side
trampled under foot
nobody's fault but mine
bron y aur stomp

those are just the ones I know of off the top of my head that borrow lyrics or music sections of other songs but weren't originally credit to anyone outside of led zeppelin. a lot of them have been fixed now due to lawsuits

Ummm. these songs were...


those songs were what? not originally credited to the proper people.

history of the credit for babe
The band covered Baez's version; both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were fans of Baez. Baez's album had originally indicated no writing credit, and Led Zeppelin credited the song as "Trad. arr. Page". In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song and since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant. Bredon received a substantial back-payment of royalties



I cant find it but someone says that initial pressing of IV didn't properly credit the writer of levee but that it was a screw up by the label and not the band so if that's true then I guess that one can be removed

Yes I read that but anyway - A song like the Lemon Song - If they took that from some past blues player they always made it there own in studio- The Lemon
song has one of the best bass parts, drums, vocals and guitars all on one song.


redoing the entire music of a song but keeping most of the original lyrics doesn't mean you get to do an end around for giving proper credit.


the issue I have isn't the lack of proper credits as things weren't as cut and dry then as they were now with how credit should be listed. the issue I have is plant seemingly saying 'we didn't know better" which I accept while page just flat out lies about it or a few times blames plant outright and takes no responsibility. page even said he wasn't familiar with jake holmes version of "dazed and confused". not even possible since the yardbirds covered it while page was in the yardbirds and no one in the yardbirds took credit then for writing it.

also page found a way to take money out of the pocket of the person who wrote "babe I'm gonna leave you". originally page was listed and after the band had to share credit page , the actual writer and plant was listed. how did plant get a credit all the sudden? it was done so that the actual writer got 1/3 of the money

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: February 26, 2019 23:17

I looked at The Mothership DC and of the 24 songs there are 3 songs with co credits - Babe I Gonna Leave You, Whole Lotta Love and When The Levee Breaks.

I wonder if Page starting off as a session player in the studio had some effect, At first he was exposed to people giving him music to play on before he became famous.


A read many quotes from Page that he always admired Jagger saying he always had the songs.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 26, 2019 23:27

Quote
OpenG
I looked at The Mothership DC and of the 24 songs there are 3 songs with co credits - Babe I Gonna Leave You, Whole Lotta Love and When The Levee Breaks.

I wonder if Page starting off as a session player in the studio had some effect, At first he was exposed to people giving him music to play on before he became famous.


A read many quotes from Page that he always admired Jagger saying he always had the songs.


and 2 of those 3 songs people had to sue to get credit. a lot of songs no lawsuits were ever filed so proper credit still isn't rectified

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: February 27, 2019 00:18

I get the impression that some people here don't know the difference between composing and arranging.
Also, Plant did write lyrics for the first LZ album, apparently he couldn't be credited because of some contractual stuff he was under at the time. So it's not that strange that Plant got writing credits decades after the fact. I haven't checked the difference between Anne Bredon's version and the Led Zep one. If there ARE differences, why wouldn't credits be given to all?

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 27, 2019 02:43

Quote
SomeGuy
I get the impression that some people here don't know the difference between composing and arranging.
Also, Plant did write lyrics for the first LZ album, apparently he couldn't be credited because of some contractual stuff he was under at the time. So it's not that strange that Plant got writing credits decades after the fact. I haven't checked the difference between Anne Bredon's version and the Led Zep one. If there ARE differences, why wouldn't credits be given to all?

i get that feeling too. the same thing happens when trying to discuss The Band with a lot of people. "well garth added the organ part" or "this guy added that" . thats not composing thats arranging.


plant might have written some lyrics but there are 8 songs on the first album with vocals and just 1 of them doesn't include portions of lyrics from other songs "good times, bad times". thats not saying the entire lyrically content of the songs are borrowed lyrics so sure he could have added his own lyrics

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 27, 2019 04:48

Quote
keefriffhard4life

plant might have written some lyrics but there are 8 songs on the first album with vocals and just 1 of them doesn't include portions of lyrics from other songs "good times, bad times". thats not saying the entire lyrically content of the songs are borrowed lyrics so sure he could have added his own lyrics

Never really thought about it, but what portions of the lyrics to Communication Breakdown were borrowed/stolen from someone else and from what song?

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: February 27, 2019 05:22

Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriffhard4life

plant might have written some lyrics but there are 8 songs on the first album with vocals and just 1 of them doesn't include portions of lyrics from other songs "good times, bad times". thats not saying the entire lyrically content of the songs are borrowed lyrics so sure he could have added his own lyrics

Never really thought about it, but what portions of the lyrics to Communication Breakdown were borrowed/stolen from someone else and from what song?

Was wondering the same about "Your Time Is Gonna Come."

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: February 27, 2019 05:24

I think the Stones had a song about Good Times & Bad Times.
If we go by that standard, every musician is a copycat.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin - Plagiarism and other news
Date: February 27, 2019 05:46

Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriffhard4life

plant might have written some lyrics but there are 8 songs on the first album with vocals and just 1 of them doesn't include portions of lyrics from other songs "good times, bad times". thats not saying the entire lyrically content of the songs are borrowed lyrics so sure he could have added his own lyrics

Never really thought about it, but what portions of the lyrics to Communication Breakdown were borrowed/stolen from someone else and from what song?

Was wondering the same about "Your Time Is Gonna Come."

has some lines from a ray charles song "i believe in my soul"so i'm guessing plant wrote the rest of the lyrics

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