Hey Mathijs, thanks for the posts.

Is there a way to download these tracks from Gigasize or Hotfile or megaupload or a site like that? Thank you

Found download link in the IORR Hot Stuff forum. Thanks again

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Sipuncula

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Max'sKansasCity
Is it my imagination, or does that dude have some looooong fingers?

I always wondered how the hell people with normal-length fingers were able to play some of those chord shapes.

They fake it! Sluff off and play the important bits whatever way the hand feel more natural doing it. The whole thing about guitar is that is is not really the chording hand that provides the magic, it is the picking/strumming hand. With electric guitar and loud volumes, and a band, complex chord shapes often just muddy up the overall sound. Often two or three notes is all it takes, placed correctly and sounding clear and "in their place". the first and the fifth of the major chord being all important for rock and roll, TWO notes. Angus Young knows this well.

As far as small hands being good enough, this is true. In 2011, guitars are made with many different neck widths and scale lengths, almost anyone can find a guitar that feels good to their particular hand shapes and such. It took me 20 years but I can say that all 12 notes are now committed to muscle memory for me. I can often get outside myself and watch me playing as an observer, it is wierd but happens all the time. Especially on tunes I have played many times. My wife has a story of me actually falling asleep and not missing a note until I woke up a few seconds later...lol. Small hand can do AMAZING things. Look at the cover of Wilco's "Being There" record. Very small hands (either Max's or Jay Bennett's). Both those guys but especially the late great Jay Bennett were able to shred on their chosen fretboards. For Jay it was usually a late 60's Gibson SG. I was shocked many times watching him get incredible pedal steel sounds out of that guitar plugged into a VOX AC 30 amp, tiny, tiny hands and fingers.
I'd say its a triangle of the head, the heart and the fingers that make the sounds that really get people. Just my humble opinion. peace.

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Naturalust

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Sipuncula

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Max'sKansasCity
Is it my imagination, or does that dude have some looooong fingers?

I always wondered how the hell people with normal-length fingers were able to play some of those chord shapes.

They fake it! Sluff off and play the important bits whatever way the hand feel more natural doing it. The whole thing about guitar is that is is not really the chording hand that provides the magic, it is the picking/strumming hand. With electric guitar and loud volumes, and a band, complex chord shapes often just muddy up the overall sound. Often two or three notes is all it takes, placed correctly and sounding clear and "in their place". the first and the fifth of the major chord being all important for rock and roll, TWO notes. Angus Young knows this well.

As far as small hands being good enough, this is true. In 2011, guitars are made with many different neck widths and scale lengths, almost anyone can find a guitar that feels good to their particular hand shapes and such. It took me 20 years but I can say that all 12 notes are now committed to muscle memory for me. I can often get outside myself and watch me playing as an observer, it is wierd but happens all the time. Especially on tunes I have played many times. My wife has a story of me actually falling asleep and not missing a note until I woke up a few seconds later...lol. Small hand can do AMAZING things. Look at the cover of Wilco's "Being There" record. Very small hands (either Max's or Jay Bennett's). Both those guys but especially the late great Jay Bennett were able to shred on their chosen fretboards. For Jay it was usually a late 60's Gibson SG. I was shocked many times watching him get incredible pedal steel sounds out of that guitar plugged into a VOX AC 30 amp, tiny, tiny hands and fingers.
I'd say its a triangle of the head, the heart and the fingers that make the sounds that really get people. Just my humble opinion. peace.

This is off topic. Please start a new thread if you like.

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Carster

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genco
Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Is this your best contribution?

In order to really understand the Stones music we all have the underlying curiosity about the men behind the instruments. You can't really separate the two. without the music who would give a crap about these skinny (previously drug-addled) english chaps? Their life syle choices and looks have modified the way you and I walk in this world today, in 2011. Its all important and fun stuff. Well with the exception of Ronnie's rather lame contributions. He is making more money these days selling his paintings of the stones and he IS a stone. So music isn't everything. Well to ME it is but I understand the infactuation with all things Rolling Stone. Can't underestimate how important the Dominique Tarle pictures have been in creating the whole Stones image and mistique. I am grateful they stood up to the status quo and created a modern world with ALOT more sympathy for the bohemian lifestyle and responsible drug taking and living for the music. All good stuff. If we only all had such courage the guard would have changed long ago. peace.

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Naturalust
...peace.

Sorry, you were saying...?

..... this thangs goin' up X-Aisle



ROCKMAN

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Carster

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Naturalust
...peace.

Sorry, you were saying...?

Ok so you ARE the moderator, my apologies. I'll figure this site out soon, give me time.....

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Naturalust
.... I'll figure this site out soon, give me time.....

If you ever do, will you please let me know

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Naturalust

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Carster

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Naturalust
...peace.

Sorry, you were saying...?

Ok so you ARE the moderator, my apologies. I'll figure this site out soon, give me time.....

You are kinda, well, full of it, are you?

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gimme_shelter

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Naturalust

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Carster

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Naturalust
...peace.

Sorry, you were saying...?

Ok so you ARE the moderator, my apologies. I'll figure this site out soon, give me time.....

You are kinda, well, full of it, are you?

Quite possible. But gimme some shelter. peace.

Ok I'm warming up to these Nicky Exile mixes . The different VERSION of Sweet Virginia did it for me . The Robin M. Blind is still kinda rubs wrong but I'll get over it if the victims will. Thanks Mathijs peace.

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Naturalust
The different VERSION of Sweet Virginia did it for me

what is different from the generally circulating version? I compared this to the Custom Mixes cd as well as the Pro Series remaster and it seems to be the same to my ears, although a different speed and mix: Keys sax (the odd note after "fruit" is one example), Taylor's acoustic intro and fills, Hopkins trills, Jagger's wavering vox, etc. seem to be the same.

Also, munichhilton's conversion did not include this as a "new" version.

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Smokey

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Naturalust
The different VERSION of Sweet Virginia did it for me

what is different from the generally circulating version? I compared this to the Custom Mixes cd as well as the Pro Series remaster and it seems to be the same to my ears, although a different speed and mix: Keys sax (the odd note after "fruit" is one example), Taylor's acoustic intro and fills, Hopkins trills, Jagger's wavering vox, etc. seem to be the same.

Also, munichhilton's conversion did not include this as a "new" version.

ok smokey you got the good listening ear. This post is just a different mix. I AM although listening to a different version (take) of sweet virginia, got them mixed up. This one was hinted at in the exile dvd somewhere where there is a vocal interview with B Keys? that fades to this broken down version, then morphs to the one that is common circulation. . Keith is MUCH louder in the mix and the harmonies are loose but sweet. Some obvious mistakes near the end which is why I think it must be a different take. They were not above using best bits from different takes back then although it was a heck of a lot harder without ProTools and other digi editors. peace.

This 'new' version of Sweet Virginia is exactly the same as the one on Hillside Blues VGP 214. Put them side by side in any audio editor (I use cooledit pro) & you will see that that they match perfectly

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RobberBride

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Mathijs
Rip This Joint features a totally useless guitar by Taylor, largely edited out of the final version. Listening to RTJ one can understand why Richards would state that Taylor 'was not a great rhythm player' or 'great live but not in the studio'. The real king of RTJ is Hopkins, Jagger and Keys.
Fantastic new hook on Exile in my opinion.

Mathijs

Yeah on RTJ Taylor is really unfortunate with his slidework. Its like they were done on a completely different stage of the process, him just messing around.

Thanks for the filesonic file, MunichHilton!

I would say that that is keith on slide , it is nothing like mick would play at all .

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Mathijs

What we're hearing I think is rough tapes straight out of Nellcote, just before they where finished in LA by Jagger and Richards. It seems all are live takes of the basic band plus Hopkins, with brass overdubbed. Rocks Off and Soul Survivor have overdubs by Richards as well.


Mathijs

This is exactly what I thought, as well, the minute I heard them, before I waded through the whole thread and read this post. I have ALWAYS wondered exactly what they "had" and didn't have, on tape, when they went from France to L.A. It would make perfect sense that Nicky would somehow end up with a copy of at least some of those tapes in his possession.

That's always been one of my "Holy Grails," to hear what they had in the can when they actually left Nellcote... there have to have been "working tapes" of rough mixes, just like these, for everything they did, for reference and for Jagger to finish writing lyrics to...What with all these instrumentals that keep popping up, and with the stories of Jagger flying in and out to be with Bianca, I am starting to wonder if there are very many vocals from Nelcotte, or even lyrics! The vocal on the out take of "I Ain't Signifyin' sounds really....drunk.

Towards the end of the sessions at Nellcote (I think after the burglaries and the issues with the cops)It was documented somewhere that JM put together rough mixes of all the Nellcote recordings so that they could have something to show the record company and get the hell out France before Keith was busted.
Maybe that's where these came from.
I would love to hear similar mixes of Casino Boogie, TD, Happy and Ventilator Blues.

Does anyone know if the instrumental track of Let It Loose is from the Nellcote sessions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-08 02:34 by theanchorman.

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straycatblues73
I would say that that is keith on slide , it is nothing like mick would play at all .

Even though it doesn't really jive well with the song - can Keith play slide that well?

He was playing slide while at Nellcote - he played on Happy, possibly some of the slide on Casino Boogie (as well as Taylor), maybe he played the slide on the instrumental version of Lit It Loose as well?

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theanchorman

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straycatblues73
I would say that that is keith on slide , it is nothing like mick would play at all .

Even though it doesn't really jive well with the song - can Keith play slide that well?

He was playing slide while at Nellcote - he played on Happy, possibly some of the slide on Casino Boogie (as well as Taylor), maybe he played the slide on the instrumental version of Lit It Loose as well?

That sure is Taylor on slide.

Mathijs

I wrote Bill an email about the unreleased instrumental. Here's what he had to say:

"I have a vague recollection of this track

It’s possible that it was recorded at Olympic Studios, London, around 1969-70

Before we went to France & did the Exile Sessions

Or more than likely afterwards in the 1972/73 period

Yes that’s me on bass,

That’s all I’ve got for you

Cheers

Bill Wyman"

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thijs1981
I wrote Bill an email about the unreleased instrumental. Here's what he had to say:

"I have a vague recollection of this track

It’s possible that it was recorded at Olympic Studios, London, around 1969-70

Before we went to France & did the Exile Sessions

Or more than likely afterwards in the 1972/73 period

Yes that’s me on bass,

That’s all I’ve got for you

Cheers

Bill Wyman"

WOW!! Nice work, thanks for sharing.

ps
I am sure most here have seen it, but maybe some missed it... anyway I just saw it, and I thought it was interesting exile (Villa Nellcote) read [anitapallenberg.multiply.com] ....who knows if it is 100% accurate, it is just one (another) account, but imuho has some very interesting tidbits, e.g. "Richards bought himself a speedboat, he called it Mandrax"... maybe worth a look if you have not seen it....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-08 13:31 by Max'sKansasCity.

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thijs1981
I wrote Bill an email about the unreleased instrumental. Here's what he had to say:

"I have a vague recollection of this track

It’s possible that it was recorded at Olympic Studios, London, around 1969-70

Before we went to France & did the Exile Sessions

Or more than likely afterwards in the 1972/73 period

Yes that’s me on bass,

That’s all I’ve got for you

Cheers

Bill Wyman"

Ah that's good to hear, so Bill replied to your question - nice person he is



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-08 14:29 by Erik_Snow.

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theanchorman
Does anyone know if the instrumental track of Let It Loose is from the Nellcote sessions?

Which one? Is there a new instrumental version on YouTube or are you referring to the old one from the Dallas rehersals?

Fantastic that Bill responded.
So we know 2% or 3% more than we did?

Since he suggests it, I would go with the

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Bill Wyman
more than likely afterwards in the 1972/73 period

idea

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ghostryder13

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
I have listened to all the videos, and although it's great, I have one simple question: Aren't most of what we are hearing the backing tracks that were used on the album(s), only mixed slightly different + a few edits??

Rocks Off, for instance, Taylor's out of phase guitar is a little more prominent in the mix, but it sounds like it's there on Exile, too, only lower in the mix.

Although it's great, these versions leave me a bit puzzled...

What we're hearing I think is rough tapes straight out of Nellcote, just before they where finished in LA by Jagger and Richards. It seems all are live takes of the basic band plus Hopkins, with brass overdubbed. Rocks Off and Soul Survivor have overdubs by Richards as well.

On Rocks Off and RTJ most of Taylor's contributions seemed to have been swiped. It sounds like all Taylor's contributions where done live, and as he wasn't present in LA whatever was swiped wasn't done again by Taylor.

Mathijs

i think these may be rough mixes from the L.A. Sessions or possibly even outfakes the timing for the fadeouts are very close to the released versions if they were from nellcote i doubt there would be any fadeouts

Having a (different) fade out for temporary mixes while still working on the song is not uncommon?

I'm not so sure there is very much significance to the fades being similar...I haven't compared side by side, but just from memory of hearing Exile 8 million times, I think some of these fades are slightly different...

Unfinished songs will usually have a feel or pulse to them, that tells you right away when to fade them out. For instance, the fade on Rocks Off is timed on the interaction of the lead guitar, and the fills on Charlie's snare drum - Charlie does this nice little bit, a sequence of hits, the guitar is wailing, and then four or so bars after that, it fades right out at the logical "end" of the chord progression. Nothing too surprising there really. If I'm not mistaken, I think Rocks Off actually fades out a second or so earlier on this one...On "Rip This Joint" right when it goes back into the verse again, it sounds to me like someone is taking the master fader on a console and slowly moving it down to zero...a move of about six or eight inches on one of those big old consoles. A lot of guys would use a pencil in the groove of the fader, so it steadies the hand...and if you start the move when it goes back to the verse, you'd get almost the same exact fade in the same spot of the song every time.

I haven't bothered to sit there and count them all out, but things almost always fade out on an even number and a multiple of 4 or 8. So it's usually pretty easy to take a piece of unfinished music and figure out roughly "where" the fade should happen.


And even if they are rough mixes from LA, they are still from the very beginning of the work, before the other stuff was put on top of them. Which is COOL!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-08 20:03 by Turning To Gold.

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DandelionPowderman
Having a (different) fade out for temporary mixes while still working on the song is not uncommon?

No, absolutely not. What you do is a called a 'mix-down', 'down-copy', or 'tape-down', and more phrases like that. You send the output from a high quality source (1", 2", 2 1/2" 4/8/16 track tape) to a low quality source like an acetate, cassette, 1/2 inch tape, 2-track or whatever is available. The sound engineer will make a rough mix, just adjusting the sound levels for everybody to be heard properly, and mix it down to that lower source for everybody to take home. He will either run the tape until the song is finished (like most Pathe Marconi tracks), or manually (these days automated) do a fade out when something happens at the end of the track, or just when it feels right. With RO, it is not hard to feel that the ending just comes in naturally -it is actually genius to delay the fade, and let Taylor come in with 8 bars solo after the natural ending.

Mathijs

Seems more Goats Head Soup to me for some reason. It certainly does have bits of what sound like If You Really Want To Be My Friend.

After listening quite a few times, I am starting to think that this "alternate take" of "I Aint' Signifying," might actually be the SAME EXACT TAKE as the one that was released as an Exile deluxe bonus track, but with a different (better) vocal on top, different instruments mixed in the foreground, and that they cleaned it up quite a lot and monkeyed around with it digitally, after taking the tracks from the original analog multi-tracks into the computer. I'd really have to sit down and compare drum fills and stuff like that, but the MORE I listen to it, the more I am starting to think they are the same BASIC TRACK, same performance, but that the one on the Exile reissue has been tinkered with heavily and extensively, perhaps even put on a grid, changed pitch, lined up and had "clam" bum notes replaced, lifting piano notes and bits from one verse and flying them into the other, lining up the guitars so they're more perfectly in time, things like that. But the horns and a huge chunk of the Nicky piano in particular seem almost identical to me, between the two versions.

Did someone else already speculate this, pages ago, and I missed it? Except for the first Charlie drum fill when he comes in, which is a bit different, the more that I listen to these two versions, the more that the basic piano,bass, drums and guitars sound like exactly the same take to me. Or did we already know this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-08 22:54 by Turning To Gold.