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Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 27, 2011 11:35

Quote
Naturalust
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Naturalust
Quote
Stones62
So cool to see new stuff turning up!

I still haven't heard anything NEW here. Am I missing something. Just bad mixes from the same old master tapes is my guess. Why all the friggin excitement over this?

? Did you actually listen to it?

Mathijs

OK to be fair I'll do another listen for you Mathijis, which one is really rocking your nogalstic world today? that one will do. Rocks Off was probably the one that turned me sour. peace.

Well, Rocks Off and RTJ both have a Taylor guitar part that was swiped or burried in the final released version. All Down the Line is the basic band cooking in what seems a live setting, so what you hear is the band rocking in the basement without the dozens of overdubs, edits and mix-downs of the released version. Soul Survivor features several Keith Richards overdubs they removed in the released version, there's horns that where removed later on. And of course -all mentioned tracks feature Bill Wyman on bass, whereas the official RTJ and ADTL feature Bill Plummer on double bass, and SS features Keith Richards on bass.

Mathijs

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Date: August 27, 2011 16:06

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Well any of the theories here can be deemed unlikely for several reasons. This goes back 39 years into crazy, drug fueld years,archived by people who are notoriously not into record keeping.
And the reason they are specific to Nicky is from their origin. So they all are specific to Nicky, just by ownership. Had I heard these tapes ice cold w/o that knowledge, of course I would not have said "Oh that must be a mix just for Nicky".
But since they do come from him, it is perfectl;y reasonable to see a link to him as a possibility.
I spend a LOT of time in and about recording studios; and (while nowadays it is not tapes anymore) there are constantly huge numbers of rough copies of this and that run off for people in the inner circle; who want to taKe a few trax home in any variety of mix.

I am not dismissing any theories by anyone else here; it is way more fun to assume, and determine new historic facts and links, but I am saying there are just as many very unglamorous reasons for such recordings to exist.

Nobody knew these kinds of recordings would rock our world 40 years later.

I meant more unlikely for a number of reasons regarding it being some specific to Nicky headphone mix. Nothing to do with drugs, lack of record keeping, just the technology of the time.

Whether you spend a LOT of time in a studio or not has nothing to do with this.

Tis a bunch of rough mixes, nothing more nothing less.

Come on Phillip, I knew the minute I type LOT someone was going to jump on it. You punctuate many of your posts about your research from late 60's tracks with exclamation points, making sure we know how much you have dived into it. And I treat your views with a LOT of respect. The mellotron thread alone...
Headphone mix is a term used like monitor mixes. When recording (especially in different rooms like Nellxote) they had to most likel;y depend on cans quite a bit. A mixer with aux sends would give them different levels. if Keith says "all I need to hear is myself and Charlie" then he hears that; if Nicky ,who is more in the melodic dept, say "more Taylor" etc etc. Any engineer, or helper is going to be able to know who has what setting, and if someone asks for a copy of what they had in cans then they will get it.
As far as discounting 'drugfueled years" as something that has no bearing on Stones' history, especially 77. 72, then I don't know what to answer to that. I must have been following the wrong band.
The thing is - HM, Mathijs, and many others here know all this anyway.
Half the posting here is just pissing contests.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 27, 2011 16:19

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

As far as discounting 'drugfueled years" as something that has no bearing on Stones' history, especially 77. 72, then I don't know what to answer to that. I must have been following the wrong band.

I didn't say the drugs had no bearing on stones history.

Argh, lets put a stop to this. thumbs up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-27 16:20 by His Majesty.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: RobberBride ()
Date: August 27, 2011 16:41

Quote
His Majesty

Argh, lets put a stop to this. thumbs up

Agree smiling smiley
You are both great posters.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 27, 2011 16:57

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Well any of the theories here can be deemed unlikely for several reasons. This goes back 39 years into crazy, drug fueld years,archived by people who are notoriously not into record keeping.
And the reason they are specific to Nicky is from their origin. So they all are specific to Nicky, just by ownership. Had I heard these tapes ice cold w/o that knowledge, of course I would not have said "Oh that must be a mix just for Nicky".
But since they do come from him, it is perfectl;y reasonable to see a link to him as a possibility.
I spend a LOT of time in and about recording studios; and (while nowadays it is not tapes anymore) there are constantly huge numbers of rough copies of this and that run off for people in the inner circle; who want to taKe a few trax home in any variety of mix.

I am not dismissing any theories by anyone else here; it is way more fun to assume, and determine new historic facts and links, but I am saying there are just as many very unglamorous reasons for such recordings to exist.

Nobody knew these kinds of recordings would rock our world 40 years later.

I meant more unlikely for a number of reasons regarding it being some specific to Nicky headphone mix. Nothing to do with drugs, lack of record keeping, just the technology of the time.

Whether you spend a LOT of time in a studio or not has nothing to do with this.

Tis a bunch of rough mixes, nothing more nothing less.

Come on Phillip, I knew the minute I type LOT someone was going to jump on it. You punctuate many of your posts about your research from late 60's tracks with exclamation points, making sure we know how much you have dived into it. And I treat your views with a LOT of respect. The mellotron thread alone...
Headphone mix is a term used like monitor mixes. When recording (especially in different rooms like Nellxote) they had to most likel;y depend on cans quite a bit. A mixer with aux sends would give them different levels. if Keith says "all I need to hear is myself and Charlie" then he hears that; if Nicky ,who is more in the melodic dept, say "more Taylor" etc etc. Any engineer, or helper is going to be able to know who has what setting, and if someone asks for a copy of what they had in cans then they will get it.
As far as discounting 'drugfueled years" as something that has no bearing on Stones' history, especially 77. 72, then I don't know what to answer to that. I must have been following the wrong band.
The thing is - HM, Mathijs, and many others here know all this anyway.
Half the posting here is just pissing contests.

I am not sure this is how they recorded at Nellcote, and in fact I don't think they recorded like this at all until the Steel Wheels sessions. The Stones, and most 60's/70's bands recorded live, with everybody in the same room with only the drums and amps baffled. Only for overdubs headphones would be used. I think these unearthed recordings are all live takes of Richards, Watts, Wyman, Taylor and Hokings, recorded with everybody in the same room, without any headphones. The overdubs then of brass and guitars where done with headphones.

Mathijs

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 27, 2011 17:49

It seems they started using headphones during basic backing track group recording circa 1966/67 Olympic Studios sessions. Probably not always the case, but we see them with headphones during One Plus One for example.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Date: August 27, 2011 17:58

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

As far as discounting 'drugfueled years" as something that has no bearing on Stones' history, especially 77. 72, then I don't know what to answer to that. I must have been following the wrong band.

I didn't say the drugs had no bearing on stones history.

Argh, lets put a stop to this. thumbs up

Totally. Much love and respect to you, Phillip.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: peoplewitheyes ()
Date: August 27, 2011 20:43

call me stoopid, or just plain dumb, but how can i download these tracks, at the filesonic.mx page, i cant work out how to get the free download? or are they up on hot stuff already?

guess that excitement is clouding my brain

thank you!

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Carster ()
Date: August 28, 2011 00:44

Quote
peoplewitheyes
call me stoopid, or just plain dumb, but how can i download these tracks, at the filesonic.mx page, i cant work out how to get the free download? or are they up on hot stuff already?

guess that excitement is clouding my brain

thank you!

In order to give you the most accurate guidance please describe your skill level in operating a personal computer (PC). Please include your answer on the question "What is the Internet?".

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 28, 2011 00:53

Quote
Amsterdamned
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
thijs1981
Shame almost everything runs so fast... the Rocks Off instrumental I don't think I've heard before too?

Fantastic to be able to listen to this. There's two things really striking here -1) Taylor's guitar on the released version is only a tiny part of what he actually played. He was completely cut out of the final version of RO, except for the intro and the lead at the outro, and deservedly so in my opinion and 2) Nicky Hopkins is truly, truly instrumental to Exile. Of course we knew how important he is, but here he is as important as Jagger basically. There's two different melodies going on -Jagger's vocals (missing here) and Hopkin's piano.



And that's the same for the other outtakes here. Rip This Joint features a totally useless guitar by Taylor, largely edited out of the final version. Listening to RTJ one can understand why Richards would state that Taylor 'was not a great rhythm player' or 'great live but not in the studio'. The real king of RTJ is Hopkins, Jagger and Keys. And for Soul Survivor it is truu again -not too inspired slide by Taylor, largely edited out of the final version.

Fantastic new hook on Exile in my opinion.

Mathijs

Move on, Taylor-troll.

Just some advise: don't post on the internet when under the influence.

Mathijs

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: August 28, 2011 01:00

Quote
Carster
Quote
peoplewitheyes
call me stoopid, or just plain dumb, but how can i download these tracks, at the filesonic.mx page, i cant work out how to get the free download? or are they up on hot stuff already?

guess that excitement is clouding my brain

thank you!

In order to give you the most accurate guidance please describe your skill level in operating a personal computer (PC). Please include your answer on the question "What is the Internet?".

HA!

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: August 28, 2011 01:02

And that's the same for the other outtakes here. Rip This Joint features a totally useless guitar by Taylor, largely edited out of the final version. Listening to RTJ one can understand why Richards would state that Taylor 'was not a great rhythm player' or 'great live but not in the studio'. The real king of RTJ is Hopkins, Jagger and Keys. And for Soul Survivor it is truu again -not too inspired slide by Taylor, largely edited out of the final version.

Fantastic new hook on Exile in my opinion.
<Mathijs>


Move on, Taylor-troll. <Amsterdamned>


Just some advise: don't post on the internet when under the influence. <Mathijs>




Lol. Generalizing Taylor's skills after listening to one odd outtake and -with all respect- quoting a coked up junky. Pathetic, but you cannot help it. smiling smiley

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: August 28, 2011 02:30

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

Well any of the theories here can be deemed unlikely for several reasons. This goes back 39 years into crazy, drug fueld years,archived by people who are notoriously not into record keeping.
And the reason they are specific to Nicky is from their origin. So they all are specific to Nicky, just by ownership. Had I heard these tapes ice cold w/o that knowledge, of course I would not have said "Oh that must be a mix just for Nicky".
But since they do come from him, it is perfectl;y reasonable to see a link to him as a possibility.
I spend a LOT of time in and about recording studios; and (while nowadays it is not tapes anymore) there are constantly huge numbers of rough copies of this and that run off for people in the inner circle; who want to taKe a few trax home in any variety of mix.

I am not dismissing any theories by anyone else here; it is way more fun to assume, and determine new historic facts and links, but I am saying there are just as many very unglamorous reasons for such recordings to exist.

Nobody knew these kinds of recordings would rock our world 40 years later.

I meant more unlikely for a number of reasons regarding it being some specific to Nicky headphone mix. Nothing to do with drugs, lack of record keeping, just the technology of the time.

Whether you spend a LOT of time in a studio or not has nothing to do with this.

Tis a bunch of rough mixes, nothing more nothing less.

Come on Phillip, I knew the minute I type LOT someone was going to jump on it. You punctuate many of your posts about your research from late 60's tracks with exclamation points, making sure we know how much you have dived into it. And I treat your views with a LOT of respect. The mellotron thread alone...
Headphone mix is a term used like monitor mixes. When recording (especially in different rooms like Nellxote) they had to most likel;y depend on cans quite a bit. A mixer with aux sends would give them different levels. if Keith says "all I need to hear is myself and Charlie" then he hears that; if Nicky ,who is more in the melodic dept, say "more Taylor" etc etc. Any engineer, or helper is going to be able to know who has what setting, and if someone asks for a copy of what they had in cans then they will get it.
As far as discounting 'drugfueled years" as something that has no bearing on Stones' history, especially 77. 72, then I don't know what to answer to that. I must have been following the wrong band.
The thing is - HM, Mathijs, and many others here know all this anyway.
Half the posting here is just pissing contests.

I am not sure this is how they recorded at Nellcote, and in fact I don't think they recorded like this at all until the Steel Wheels sessions. The Stones, and most 60's/70's bands recorded live, with everybody in the same room with only the drums and amps baffled. Only for overdubs headphones would be used. I think these unearthed recordings are all live takes of Richards, Watts, Wyman, Taylor and Hokings, recorded with everybody in the same room, without any headphones. The overdubs then of brass and guitars where done with headphones.

Mathijs

I agree Mathijs, thats how it was done. They were just getting around to doing live "mix-minus" stuff keeping selected instruments out of the speakers stacks which fed into the vocal mics , and thus caused feedback and an inability to turn the whole thing UP. In the old days of the Fillmore West and such all the PA speakers were behind the band, The band was hearing exactly what the audience was ....a semmingly important connection. No monitor mix. Fast forward to 2011 , BIG disconnect. Monitor mixes are to inspire the performers but are Totally different that what the crowd hears, as you probably know. Thats why I like the small venues and old style records so much probably too, less disconnect. peace.

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: August 28, 2011 02:45

Quote
Munichhilton
Quote
Naturalust
Quote
Munichhilton
Those are really great listens.
I am grabbing them with soundforge as mp3 files, but I doubt youtube is any more than 128-160K?

Hi MH, I grab stuff off you tube at 24 bits , 44.1KHz. Storage is cheap and you can be sure of getting the best of what anyone uplaoded , you can always go cleanup and or play with the wave files later. I have gotten some fine sounding files in the end. But, I don't need smaller files for portable devices since I don't use em. Good enough. Just my 2 bit. peace.

That's right. But I didn't think of it.
midnrambler later hinted at it and that's what we are trying to do here:

[www.iorr.org]

I'm actually still in shock over your comment about not hearing anything new. Obviously these are 39 year old recordings, but unless you have only just started exploring the unreleased world of the Rolling Stones...you should have known how valuable this find was?!?!

well I do really enjoy rare releases and alt versions and ALL good music in general. But I am a recording guitar player and singer and have heard so many rough mixes of so many songs I guess I am just dulled to it all unless I really hear something magic. I once talked David Bowie into lending me the multi tracks of Fame (16 original tracks, john lennon on 2 of em). (This is a great story for later) We used them with permission for years as reference mix tapes, Thomas Dolby put some up on a site to allow people to create their own mixes online, Mr Bowie heard all the finished stuff. It was a gas. But new guitar noodling and stuff that didn't quite cut it back then probably doesn't for me now. Sorry Keef.If these were new stones songs , yeah that would be huge but mixes can be made different forever. I have learned to respect private creative liscence too, a difficult thing as into music as I am. But I have found that if you ask, people rarely say no. All that being said one day I will open my vaults and I have found a community that digs this stuff, no? Thanks for the strong reaction anyway, it shows that you care what I say. That's cool. Be well. peace.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Cafaro ()
Date: August 28, 2011 05:44

Thank you very much munich hiilton

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: August 28, 2011 15:58

Quote
Naturalust
That's cool. Be well. peace.

You present yourself as a musical success. Is there someplace I might have heard your work already? Just sort of wondering who you are?


@Cafaro you are very welcome!

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: August 28, 2011 20:32

Quote
Munichhilton
Quote
Naturalust
That's cool. Be well. peace.

Just sort of wondering who you are?


Smiles. I am able to make a good living with music although I have many interests. You may have heard my playing I have recorded and played live plenty with lots of folks. Successful and famous musicians by most standards are just friends and I have been lucky to hang with a few giants. Recording and guitars have been my thing for 25 years so I have a nice collection of OPM (other peoples music), including alot of multitracks and rough mixes of popular songs. If there was a way to contact you on this site, kinda off the main line, I'd send you some stuff which you would like I'll bet. Maybe you can let me know.

Anyway here is what I am listening to/watching today. Be ready for a rhythmic mind blower...this is sweet, just one acoustic guitar....I hope Rockman gets it too since he has been so good at posting killer stuff from you tube. peace.

[url=

][/url]

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: August 28, 2011 20:45

Quote
Naturalust


Man, that is a cool piece... nice groove... thanks for sharing
Is it my imagination, or does that dude have some looooong fingers?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-28 20:49 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Sacke ()
Date: August 28, 2011 21:24

[/quote]
Anyway here is what I am listening to/watching today. Be ready for a rhythmic mind blower...this is sweet, just one acoustic guitar....I hope Rockman gets it too since he has been so good at posting killer stuff from you tube. peace.

[url=

][/url][/quote]

There are lots of guitarists that can do 'tricks', but mostly they play without feeling or taste (well, that's a matter of taste)...but this one is amazing!!

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: August 28, 2011 21:33

Quote
Naturalust
Quote
Munichhilton
Quote
Naturalust
That's cool. Be well. peace.

Just sort of wondering who you are?


If there was a way to contact you on this site, kinda off the main line, I'd send you some stuff which you would like I'll bet.

click on Munichhilton above next to 'posted by'and it will take you to my email address. I don't have it hidden.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-28 21:33 by Munichhilton.

Re: New unreleased instrumental?
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: August 28, 2011 23:32

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Quote
Naturalust

Is it my imagination, or does that dude have some looooong fingers?

yeah ...ET like fingers! lol Hendrix-like in proportion. After watching this the whole "aliens are here already" thing is making more sense. peace.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Sipuncula ()
Date: August 29, 2011 01:21

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is it my imagination, or does that dude have some looooong fingers?

Interesting observation. That guy's hands look exactly like mine. I attempted to learn guitar a few years ago, but I lost patience with it when it didn't come naturally. I think I didn't stick with it long enough to build up finger strength and callouses, though. I always wondered how the hell people with normal-length fingers were able to play some of those chord shapes.

Angus Young and Bill Wyman have small hands, right? Young's ability astounds me. I seem to remember reading that Wyman had some custom bass with a smaller fretboard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-29 01:26 by Sipuncula.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: genco ()
Date: August 29, 2011 13:07

Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: August 29, 2011 15:17

"Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend....."

Don't worry we also have that kind of crowd here, alas... Fortunately we also have ppl like Mathijs and Gazza! smileys with beer

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Carster ()
Date: August 29, 2011 16:17

Quote
genco
Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Is this your best contribution?

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: genco ()
Date: August 29, 2011 16:39

Quote
Carster
Quote
genco
Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Is this your best contribution?

YES
new takes of the stones and only a few fans talking about them?.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Carster ()
Date: August 29, 2011 16:54

Quote
genco
Quote
Carster
Quote
genco
Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Is this your best contribution?

YES
new takes of the stones and only a few fans talking about them?.

You don't seem to get it...

What do YOU have of wisdome to contribute with that would knock me off of my feet?

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Amused ()
Date: August 29, 2011 16:59

hey Carster what's the matter with you? you're not being too polite x)
does every post has to be groundbreaking and impress ya?

hope this didn't knock you off your feet.

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: Carster ()
Date: August 29, 2011 17:08

Quote
Amused
hey Carster what's the matter with you? you're not being too polite x)
does every post has to be groundbreaking and impress ya?

hope this didn't knock you off your feet.

You don't seem to get it either...Please someone...am I the only one?

Re: New unreleased Exile era instrumental
Posted by: genco ()
Date: August 29, 2011 17:11

Quote
Carster
Quote
genco
Quote
Carster
Quote
genco
Hello

it's very strange that in another stones forums (rocks off, shidobee) anybody talks about this new Exile takes. I think is a great discovery. Maybe these people only worried about mick hair, keith hats, ronnie girlfriend.....
I dont understand it...
genco

Is this your best contribution?

YES
new takes of the stones and only a few fans talking about them?.

You don't seem to get it...

What do YOU have of wisdome to contribute with that would knock me off of my feet?

NOTHING Carster

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