Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It used to be Ronnie who got all the flak. Now
> > Keith-bashing seems to be the flavour of the
> > month.
>
>
> I dont necessarily think its 'bashing' in the way
> that Ronnie used to get 'bashed' for turning up
> under the influence and spending more time poiting
> and posing than actually playing. The general tone
> I've detected from the first few shows has been
> more a genuine concern for what appears to be the
> man's apparent physical fragility and possible
> ill-health more than anything else.

Flavor of the month? Oh boy, we are seriously concerned about Keith
praying that it is nothing serious at all.

I don't see the need for some of the hysterical opinions.

Although I wasn't there, it seems that our man was great at IOW.

It is good to hear that Ronnie is playing his best-because it is probably needed at the moment.

I will wait for Barcelona and judge for myself- before offering the need for brain surgery etc!

stoneswashed77 wrote:

"I really think that people who saw the stones the first time yesterday might have enjoyed the show. the band acted very professionally and overplayed so many problems during songs. i really think most of the people didn´t recognise that. they maybe complain about the sound but not about their playing.

I think this is a rule: casual fans and non fans are enjoying the Stones gigs much more than some people, who are included into the "hard core fans" category, do. Not only the "general audience", but also the big majority of the Press... Last year, after Milan's gig, i saw very possitive (even enthousiastic) reviews on italian press. But the moaning here was really intolerable...

Here's my theory for the brain surgeons out there.....
They took a look at the stadium last night, and decided to take it easy and keep the gas in the tank for Paris......

Hi,

here a few fotos from yesterday.

[www.tv-lampertheim.de]

the singer not the bong Wrote:
>
> i think these pictures can join the famous running
> Vietnamese girl from the 1970s as some of the
> world's most depressing.


.....the suffering of that girl is in no way similar to a photo of a multi-millionaire rock star......please get a grip nikki....I said please....

i hope but i doubt you can change from the usual keith richards to the keith richards recently and yesterday because of fever or a bad day.

i stay by at least my perception he is not the same. there is a change of personality and attitude, the overall impression.
for me it´s obvious that he recognises that he can´t play and do what he wants to do. which is the worst thing about it.

and to all the people who laugh about the brain surgery thing:

you don´t play guitar with you fingers, you play it with your head, soul, heart
you don´t walk by feet, it´s done by the head.
the expression in your face is not done by the face, it´s your mind.
you don´t sing with your mouth, your brain does that.

so the people on that board who say it must be the brain don´t pretend they are brain experts.

that are normal people judging by their feel that it must have to do with the brain.

what do you think a professional would look for first if even people who have different jobs have a feeling it might be the head and not just drugs, flute, bad day?

Wasn't BV's review of the concert that Keith played well?!

propably but then he didn´t listen and watch

stoneswashed77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i hope but i doubt you can change from the usual
> keith richards to the keith richards recently and
> yesterday because of fever or a bad day...

we could speculate why the tour announcement (done only by Mick) was done so late this time... Were they unsure about Keith? I mean if this is a permanent problem with Keith and he can't play anymore they shouldn't tour for sure. That'll be neither fair to Keith nor the fans.

Anyone how meet Keith at the rehearsals here with an opinion of Keith constitution there?

>> that are normal people judging by their feel that it must have to do with the brain. <<

from what i've read, a larger number of ordinary people are judging by their feel
that a number of other explanations are possible, and/or that they have no clue what might be wrong.
sorry stoneswashed, but insisting that your view is the majority view really undermines your credibility.
next witness please ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-14 16:47 by with sssoul.

nanker phelge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wasn't BV's review of the concert that Keith
> played well?!

I was also a bit suprised of this not so critic review. I mean I saw concerts with Keith playing like hell. But using the term "Keith was on fire" in conjuntion with yesterdays concert is imho surpising.

that´s not surprising, it´s a joke.
i don´t come hear to read reviews that are so far from being true.
you can be polite with a review here and there, that´s o.k., but not like that.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> thanks, but could you elaborate? i'm interested
> because it was my personal theory in 2005
> that Charlie left the stage to stop Keith from
> murdering someone.

I can't be more elaborate. It was all in a few seconds
and that Charlie was about taking care of Keith
was just what I felt in this seconds. From what
I've seen the whole band didn't know what's going on.
At least Chuck brought the band back on track.

Was at the show, too. Front row, Ronnie's side. And I must agree with most people who have posted their reports here. So I'll keep it short. Worst sound ever (yes, The Amsterdam echodome last year was a paradise soundwise compared to this!)Mick on top of the game, Charlie solid as ever, Ronnie - seemed to be a bit tired in the beginning but kind of woke up when Mick pushed him to the front after three or four songs. And Keith? I'm afraid to admit but all that was written about him is so true. Even if I get bashed for that, I had the same thought as rknuth and others. It's obvious that there is something wrong with Keef. It's not the various @#$%& ups and his sloppy playing at times, it is his overall condition, the way he looks, acts and moves. It really worries me. He looked and played like an exhausted old man who at times didn't seem to know what he was doing or supposed to do. Having seen Keef last year and this year is like two different people. I really really hope it is not anything serious and he will recover from whatever it is. CU all in Paris.

My summary so far:

Apart from all medical speculation, what do we actually know?
Judging from (also the most reasonable reports) the postings; Werchter
Frankfurt were @#$%& up by mainly Keith.
But Frankfurt also had, generally seen, techichal & sonical issues:
they changed venue and didnt even have a soundhceck (?!?!?).

Wight was a huge huge succeess. Werchter has some dips; but the thunderstorm
became that vitamine injection esp. Keef needs... Dont forget he is
a drug addict: a junkie will always be a junkie.

I believe that Keith Richards is and has always been very sensitive to
atmosphere and 'vibes'... Vibes couldnt be good in

I think many people here on the board blame Keith for most @#$%&-ups. That
is connected with the phenomenon I noticed before in my posting before
(about four pages up): the older Stones' audience gets,
the more they gonna bash
Keef for his immatureness etc.

Frankfurt seems to be a wasted gig. I hope and believe they will do a free concert
in the area to pay-back for the good Frankfurters.

About Keith: He has survived several car crashes, 12-13 of Heroin addiction,
some good 40 years of heavy drinking, alcoholism I reckon you could say,
maybe around 50 years of heavy smokin', loads of other drugs, a fall from
a library ladder, a relationship with Anita Pallenberg (!) and a coconut
palm tree fall, the infernally ice cold and total broke winter of 1962-63
and some other major accidents and such; which other,
normal people would be needing just one accident to end up face down
once and for all.

The man is turning sixty-four years old in a half years time.
You couldnt compare him with Keith: he is, almost entirely thruout his
career, clean, drug-wise. I mean, he doesnt even smoke.

Might be cool with the smokin'; but of course it aint healthy.

Losen the press on Keef, good people; and he might improve.

I'd also say that my concern for Keith at Nimegen was mostly based on a "feeling". And I wouldn't dare to draw further conclusions based on this one gig alone, especially not when looking at the pics from IOW. But what I heard in his playing and what many, many IORR fellows heard too is a different matter.

Im NOT a musician, but like many folks around here I play the guitar for nearly 30 years and, being used to the Stones' sound, can dedect when something is wrong or merely just "different".

Nevertheless, what can we do, apart showing concern for Keith? Getting hysterical won't help, so we can just hope for the best.

I am at work right now so I don't have the time to read all these pages to see if this has been posted yet but on Shidoobee's thread on Last night's Frankfurt show they have a great crowd picture with a guy in the front row Ronnie's side wearing his IORR Shirt! Colors stand out great on it too! Awesome design once again Schillid! Love the shot and the shirt!
[p081.ezboard.com]

Fred Hardin
Pleased to meet you........

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont forget he is
> a drug addict: a junkie will always be a junkie.

Do we know this for sure. Is it a fact or just mere speculation.
Shouldn't we rather say (or maybe wish) he used to be a junkie and now he's only into smoking and drinking?

a junkie will always be a junkie is true.

it doesn´t matter which kind of drugs, it´s a way of behaviour or strategie how you solve your problems, nothing you can get ever healed from.

but these days i doubt he takes anything. he would notr be able to stand it i think.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> About Keith: He has survived several car crashes,
> 12-13 of Heroin addiction,
> some good 40 years of heavy drinking, alcoholism I
> reckon you could say,
> maybe around 50 years of heavy smokin', loads of
> other drugs, a fall from
> a library ladder, a relationship with Anita
> Pallenberg (!) and a coconut
> palm tree fall, the infernally ice cold and total
> broke winter of 1962-63
> and some other major accidents and such; which
> other,
> normal people would be needing just one accident
> to end up face down
> once and for all.
>

Ever met a 90 year old who survived WW I and WW II? I think not. In comparison to those people anything that Keith went through is peanuts. Nuff said.

nanker phelge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wasn't BV's review of the concert that Keith
> played well?!

Keith plays always well.

Anyone whos' tried to have to go to work when they were sick?? Not easy working as a postmand, at an office and I don't think very easy either working in/on a major tour, It can be very hard for the mind and body doing their job but if Keith is down with some "normal" illness he's very likely to more or less being pressured into playing because of all the cancelations last year already.
Let's see after Paris, if he's not improved by then I might be a bit worried, not right now, way too many variables to consider any doomsday ramblings.

I didnt say he still takes drugs (I dont believe he does);
and I sure not didnt invent the proverb "A junkie will always be a junkie".

Anyone who knows 'former junkies', comprehends what I'm talking about.
Exactly the same with alcoholists, which perhaps more folks could relate too.

Fredluvzstones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am at work right now so I don't have the time to
> read all these pages to see if this has been
> posted yet but on Shidoobee's thread on Last
> night's Frankfurt show they have a great crowd
> picture with a guy in the front row Ronnie's side
> wearing his IORR Shirt! Colors stand out great on
> it too! Awesome design once again Schillid! Love
> the shot and the shirt!
> [p081.ezboard.com]
> m600.showMessage?topicID=10.topic

thats a great photo- who is the dude in the shirt?

Kartoffelsalat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are some photos I have taken with my cell
> phone cam:
>
> Pic taken while The Stones played Start Me Up!
> There was just nobody there to start him up. Maybe
> hundreds of empty seats on the tribune. After the
> 2nd and 3rd song it filled up a bit but there were
> still lotsa empty seats left.
>
>
>
>
> The crowd was just not into it
>
>

This is not the reality.
The exif of the first picture says it was shot at 19:14
The second picture was shot at 21:17
Sorry but it's difficult to cheat with the datas of a pix !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-14 17:15 by arizojp.

Adrian-L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fredluvzstones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am at work right now so I don't have the time
> to
> > read all these pages to see if this has been
> > posted yet but on Shidoobee's thread on Last
> > night's Frankfurt show they have a great crowd
> > picture with a guy in the front row Ronnie's
> side
> > wearing his IORR Shirt! Colors stand out great
> on
> > it too! Awesome design once again Schillid!
> Love
> > the shot and the shirt!
> >
> [p081.ezboard.com]
>
> > m600.showMessage?topicID=10.topic
>
> thats a great photo- who is the dude in the shirt?


Isn't it Stonesdoug ?

Just came back from Frankfurt - and I must agree with most of the reports.
The sound was absolutely terrible. It was better in front (I was A1 row 7) but you could even hear the echos there; when I went to the B-stage, I nearly couldn't hear anything - neither Mick nor the guitars. A stadium with a closed roof shouldn't be played in.
Mick held everything together, this guy is really in topform these days. Charlie as ever, Ronnie helped Keith a lot and Keith? walked over the stage in slow motion (aka what am I doing here?), for me he really looks as if he stays under really hard medicaments so that he can stand a two hours show. His joke "I'll even tour in a wheelchair" isn't that funny when you look at him. It really makes me sad if the Stones ended up like that; for my personal opinion, they shouldn't have announced a stadium tour like this but a tour in smaller arenas. They would have been sold out, people are happy about a smaller venue and it's not that stressy for the Stones. If you have to give away free tickets (someone said 7.000?!) to fill a stadium half - isn't that a shame?
I saw James Brown last year (two months before he died) - he nearly could move but tried to put on a show like in old days - it was just ridiculous.
Of course I will continue my tour and I really hope whatever Keith suffers from gets better (God bless you, Keith!) - I don't want to imagine what happes if not.
Susan

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if he fluffed a few warehorses has no-one every
> thought it could be sheer boredom?


Ok, but if he is really bored with what he is doing and can't be bothered to show at least some commitment to the (extremely well-paid) job he is doing, he should hang it up. My honest opinion. Every musician who is bored should ask himself some serious questions, not only the extremely well-paid ones.

So I hope you're wrong, ablett!

> Isn't it Stonesdoug ?

No. Talk with him yesterday, but that's another story.