micawber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very funny, Tits & Ass. Is there anything else you
> are?


And that's "Mr. Tits & Ass" to you, micawber....

I wrote what I'm about to repeat around 15 or 18 pages ago, but I find it tedious to click 3 or 4 times (takes 30 goda@ned seconds. Call me spoiled) to get to page 16 or 20 out of an itch to see any new info - as opposed to strident soapboxing (nobody in particular in mind) - BUT: The Sun is a TABLOID, Fran C is a PUBLICIST. We didn't know much other than Keith fell from a coconut tree Ron somehow managed to climb up hisself (anybody consider a ladder may have been involved?) while deeply intoxicated, and was hospitalized as a result. I can understand some reticence from the RS camp about the upcoming shows: maybe it took some OBSERVATION and repeated brain scans to figure out the surgery was necessary, and the RS certainly must be thinking that how quickly Keith rebounds will influence how many shows will need to be rescheduled, or even cancelled...and if said surgery just took place in the past 2 days they may have been holding out simply to see how he got through it, if complications arise, etc, prognosis from medical team, etc etc. The Stones have been part of my life and conciousness now for more than 30 year (got my 1st Stones lp, "Through the Past Darkly" for xmas when I was 10 or 11, & it took a couple of more years for them to become my favorite band and commit to the whole catalog, the books, the boots, Creem and Circus and Rolling Stone articles, and the huge influence this band (does the word even cover it? Of course not, as AOL stated on the very 1st elpee) has had on my life. I have no friends that go back 30 years, and the longest I've had a "significant other" is 10. But for all the speculation, contradictory reports, anxiety, 'charged' emotions on this thread, and reassurances that the invincible KR will be just fine by May 27th (can anybody here seriously imagine Mick, or Charlie on a tour BUS, however lavish?), this simply is not like the Mick throat scare, which I barely registered in my conciousness. An accident occured, complications arose. The Stones may have survived more crises than any 10 bands, but we all know (including the Stones - well, maybe sometimes Keith has been lulled or trapped by his own public persona and strong constitution) they are not immortal, and
that very awareness has led them to fight against time, mortality, again and again reclaim or commit to life and joy and pleasure and the satisfactions/rewards of hard work that one has is lucky enough to have chosen. Charlie gives us his take in that interview posted a few days back, and the Stones' mortality as a band - not to mention Keith's - has been a theme or subtext since at least Brian and Altamont. As far as other topics sprinkled throughout these pages: I REALLY hope the Stones don't get a temporary replacement, and believe they will reschedule or cancel as needed, but Mick DID talk about replacing Keith after the '77 bust (see the Chet Flippo book), "If Keith goes to jail for like a really really long time, not just a few months..." and Wood was rumored (still have the 'zines) to be in line to tour in place of Keith as far back as '73, when Keith was getting arrested every month or three, voted rock star most likely to die next, and the ability to tour and travel freely was an issue of concern. Also, as far as the anger about missed shows, the Stones' various arrests prevented them from touring Japan (one example) for the first 28 years of their career, and thank god the hardcore Japanese fans didn't hold a grudge and riot en masse once the band finally showed up. Yes I'd be anxious if I had tix to Barcelona or maybe any shows upcoming, maybe irritation over expenditures that could not be refunded (I'm poor), but the Stones have given me a great deal, and most of us (anybody who became interested after roughly 1972) had some idea of what we were buying into beyond the lps, cds & concert tix. For some of us it was alluring. I wasn't buying into even the remostest hope that I'd see kickass Stones shows in 1999 or 2005.

And you didn't see any kickass Stones shows in 1999 or 2005?
I did, everytime.

I'm not suggesting Keith had anything to do with the lies. I'm sure that decision was made by others. It is just adding to people's frustrations today.

All I'm saying is people are disappointed that plans got screwed up and it's costing them. I think those feelings are valid.

Let's not talk about Keith dying. It didn't happen. I agree that the reaction would be a lot different if that were the case. But since it didn't, I don't think people shouldn't be told to F off for voicing their disappointment.

john r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> much other than Keith fell from a coconut tree Ron
> somehow managed to climb up hisself (anybody
> consider a ladder may have been involved?) while
> deeply intoxicated, and was hospitalized as a
> result.

I agree, a fall from a ladder may very well have been involved. The actual accounts of the fall have not been reported, seems only Ronnie knows what actually happened since he was there.

Tour or no tour, it is not an issue.
Only one thing is important, Keith and his and his well being!
All the best Keith, we love you!

I said I would admit that I was wrong to believe, and so I do. Do I feel stupid and lemming like; not at all. Official sources are at least as good as strident rumours. I am a "galss is half full " kind of guy.

Was the cover up about money, I am sure in part it was. But I am also sure that another part was in respect for Keith Richards, the man, the patient. He has every right in the world to suffer this set back in private. Moreover, between the hounds of the press and the well meaning fans, his health care could only have been complicated by the throngs that would have surrounded the hospital. Somehow the National Enquirere would have done everything that it could have to get a pic of the recovering kEITH. No patient, no human, should have to go throw the pains of a hospitalization like this and worry about his picture on the news.

Amen

Some people seem to forget Keith is a human living person age 62 and not a machine. A medical situation is never predictable. When they postpone a tour three weeks before it is about to start then it means his condition was not as good as they hoped for one week ago. And it means they need at least a couple of weeks more to heal, afgter the planned tour start. Then all we can do is crossing our fingers and hope Keith will get back for a speedy recovery by early to mid June. By the way - ask yourself this question - are you most concerded about Keith and his well being or your own travel plans? I know many people have plans for travels and unfortunately those plans will now have to change, but that is life. The band is made up of human beings age 60+ and not machines.

PS. I will advice everyone to use the main threads on IORR for discussing these issues, this one about Keith's hospital case and the one titled "European tour postponed" about tour-related implications. I will mainly read and comment on these two threads, and I will delete any other thread that is simply a variation of these ones, without any real substance in the subject.

Bjornulf

Bjornulf

An article from New Zealand Herald (9th may edition) :
Not very good news in it..."he would likely be back to normal "within a few months"... MONTHS !!!!

-------------------------------------

Richards' op won't cause lasting harm
09.05.06
By David Eames

[www.nzherald.co.nz]


Hard-living rock icon Keith Richards - who once famously went nine days without sleep while on a drug bender - is not likely to suffer long-term effects from surgery to relieve bleeding in his skull, says an Auckland neurologist.

The 62-year-old Rolling Stones guitarist is believed to be recuperating in Auckland after falling from a palm tree in Fiji about 10 days ago.

He is reported to have undergone surgery to relieve a subdural haematoma [bleeding in the skull]. That involved drilling a hole in his skull to drain the blood leaking from ruptured veins between his skull and brain.

The neurologist, who did not want to be named, said though he was not familiar with Richards' case the procedure was "relatively straightforward", and he would likely be back to normal "within a few months".

Richards' rock 'n' roll debauches are legendary, but the neurologist said his past excesses would not normally affect his recovery.

Subdural haematomas were more common in elderly patients, particularly those aged in their 80s and beyond, but at 62 Richards should be "fine".

It was unlikely, however, that he would play the next scheduled shows in the Rolling Stones' Bigger Bang tour, which are set for Barcelona at the end of the month, the neurologist said.

Mystery still surrounds Richards' whereabouts and the details of the accident. His New York-based agent, Fran Curtis, could not be reached yesterday.

It is not the first accident to befall the man reputed to have "five strings and nine lives". He has previously fallen from a ladder while reaching for a book in his library, and fallen ill with an infected finger after cutting it on a guitar string.

Richards' sleep-free nine-day drug binge ended when he fell asleep while standing up. He fell face first into an amplifier, breaking his nose.

Richards is widely rumoured to have undergone a total blood transfusion in 1973 in an attempt to kick heroin.

arizojp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An article from New Zealand Herald (9th may
> edition) :
> Not very good news in it..."he would likely be
> back to normal "within a few months"... MONTHS
> !!!!
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Richards' op won't cause lasting harm
> 09.05.06
> By David Eames
>
> [www.nzherald.co.nz]
> =6&objectid=10380889
>
>
> Hard-living rock icon Keith Richards - who once
> famously went nine days without sleep while on a
> drug bender - is not likely to suffer long-term
> effects from surgery to relieve bleeding in his
> skull, says an Auckland neurologist.
>
> The 62-year-old Rolling Stones guitarist is
> believed to be recuperating in Auckland after
> falling from a palm tree in Fiji about 10 days
> ago.
>
> He is reported to have undergone surgery to
> relieve a subdural haematoma . That involved
> drilling a hole in his skull to drain the blood
> leaking from ruptured veins between his skull and
> brain.
>
> The neurologist, who did not want to be named,
> said though he was not familiar with Richards'
> case the procedure was "relatively
> straightforward", and he would likely be back to
> normal "within a few months".
>
> Richards' rock 'n' roll debauches are legendary,
> but the neurologist said his past excesses would
> not normally affect his recovery.
>
> Subdural haematomas were more common in elderly
> patients, particularly those aged in their 80s and
> beyond, but at 62 Richards should be "fine".
>
> It was unlikely, however, that he would play the
> next scheduled shows in the Rolling Stones' Bigger
> Bang tour, which are set for Barcelona at the end
> of the month, the neurologist said.
>
> Mystery still surrounds Richards' whereabouts and
> the details of the accident. His New York-based
> agent, Fran Curtis, could not be reached
> yesterday.
>
> It is not the first accident to befall the man
> reputed to have "five strings and nine lives". He
> has previously fallen from a ladder while reaching
> for a book in his library, and fallen ill with an
> infected finger after cutting it on a guitar
> string.
>
> Richards' sleep-free nine-day drug binge ended
> when he fell asleep while standing up. He fell
> face first into an amplifier, breaking his nose.
>
> Richards is widely rumoured to have undergone a
> total blood transfusion in 1973 in an attempt to
> kick heroin.



The last paragraph of that story speaks volumes for the writer's credibility

I wouldnt look too hard at a journalist's prognosis as its basically guesswork. After all, the BBC even reported today that although the tour was scheduled to re-start in June, the Stones publicist wouldnt confirm if Keith would be fit to join them in time!

As if the tour would proceed WITHOUT him....

micawber, I think you misinterpreted my last lines. What I meant was that back in '72, or '77, or '85, I seriously had no realistic hopes for kickass RS shows in 1999 or 2006 - usually hoping for 'one more tour, please' as every one was rumored to be the last, and the band was frequently dealing with internal or external crises. And yes I caught some great shows on the past few tours.

2 pics of Keith here:

[www.thesun.co.uk]

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2 pics of Keith here:
>
> [www.thesun.co.uk]
> .html


If these photos are real, it looks like he's walking by himself so he seems to have not too much damage at least, if any. That's a good sign

kahoosier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I said I would admit that I was wrong to believe,
> and so I do. Do I feel stupid and lemming like;
> not at all. Official sources are at least as good
> as strident rumours. I am a "galss is half full "
> kind of guy.
>
>

takes a big man to admit he was wrong. i suppose it takes a little man to boast he was right - which I am and was.

I looked up a few medical sites to get info about the recovery time typically required after a craniotomy. The info is extremely inconsistent. I found estimates that range from 1-4 weeks to 6-12, all carrying the caveat that it depends on how big the hematoma/how serious the condition was. Without that info, any prognostication seems to be pure guesswork.

LolA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2 pics of Keith here:
>
> [www.thesun.co.uk]
> .html



Whoa, not good. He looks rather frail to me, not at all like the Keith we know and love.
He has a very nervous and concerned look to him.
It's sad when compared to all the great pics we always see of him smiling and jamming.

Get well Keith!

get well soon keith
I hope the people of new zealand are treating you well.
takecare good care

this could be of some help

check out www.stonesplanet.com
www.xtra.co.nz

Hairball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LolA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 2 pics of Keith here:
> >
> >
> [www.thesun.co.uk]
>
> > .html
>
>
>
> Whoa, not good. He looks rather frail to me, not
> at all like the Keith we know and love.
> He has a very nervous and concerned look to him.
>
> It's sad when compared to all the great pics we
> always see of him smiling and jamming.
>
> Get well Keith!

double that 'whoa, not good.'
gosh it's sad to see those pix...
brings it on home...he really hurt himself and it's heartbreaking to see...
wow... i'm sorry the sun even got those shots...
leave him be...let him rest...ohmygoodness.

I hate to see Keith like he is looking in that first pic. He looks like a little old man. at the risk of reading too much into this shot, it looks to me like he is walking very gingerly. Keith. get well!

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

It is indeed spooky stuff.
We should note though the pics are
supposed to be shot just at some critical hours.

Glad there were no papparazzis (sing. papparazzo) around when he had his
cold turkeys or sem-OD:s around mid-70s.


Pic from Ron Schneider's site meandtherollingstones.com
Probably from 1969

As posted on Shidoobee on 5/9/06 12:12 am:

The following is copied without permission from Undercover. Thierry is a physician who lives in France:

Hi y'all...

I didnt read much UC these last months (lack of time, not of interest !),
and just heard the news about Keith's accident.

So I browsed my (6814 unread messages) UC folder, and tried to figure out
what happened...

Damn, sad news, but not necessarily _very_ bad news....

About Keith's accident, the case seems obvious from day one (I know, it's
quite easy to say that afterwards), that he dit not suffer just from a
"small concussion" but from a probable skull fracture with subdural
hematoma. I'm no brain surgeon but as a family doctor, I know that well
enough.

This kind of thing does a blood collection between the brain and the meninx,
which is a triple-membrane system that covers (and protects) the brain,
under the skull.
The only possible treatment is surgery, and that seems to be what happened
today in NZ.

For those of you worrying about Keith's haircut, *depending* on the exact
location of the hematoma, there is a possibility to conduct this surgery
without shaving the patient's head. But it still is done 95% of the times.

Anyway, this kind of surgery is not extremely urgent, it can still be waited
for a few days before the operation, depending on the patient's general
condition.
In Keith's case, I do NOT know, but it seems possible that the surgeons
decided to wait until he was better after a complete withdrawal from any
substance abuse.
But in the end, surgery is definately impossible to avoid.

Recovery time depends on many factors : age, general condition, estimated
time since the problem happened (this kind of hematoma can grow silently for
months after the initial accident), importance of the symptoms that oriented
to the diagnosis (some people arrive with very minor troubles, if any, while
some other cant even walk and talk before someone wonders why and decides to
search the cause), etc. etc.
But anyway, you just cant expect a *full* recovery in less than a few months
(ok, let's say 2-3 months??) after surgery.

The good news is that this kind of treatment (surgical draining the
hematoma) has a very high percentage of _complete_ success.


If I'm not wrong - and considering the very little info we seem to have
officialy, chances I'm right are not so big ;-) - the european tour will be
certainly *very* much rearranged.

From what I have read here and there, it seems that the two spanish shows
are already cancelled/postponed.
I seriously doubt a single week more rest would be enough.

Going back on the road means that not only Keith is OK, but also that the
insurance company's doctors do give their OK for the tour to resume.
And these people are not usually very much into taking chances... (It is
their job, though)

So I'm pretty sure the insurance doctors will ask for a second, then a third
and a fourth opinion, more and more scanners and magnetic imagery, and also
for enough time to make sure their opinion cannot be contested.

One of the most frequent complications (short and/or long term) of the wound
and of the surgery itself is epilepsy.
And the most important factor that starts an epilepsy crisis is flashes of
light, specially if the environment is noisy.
Well I just cant think of a better place to get that than being in the
spotlight on the stage during a Rolling Stones concert.
This kind of crisis just happens without any kind of warning, and Keith
having such a crisis on stage means the end of the show AND the tour AND any
tour.
So the OK from the insurance wont come until they are 99.99% certain this
cannot happen.

I believe this is where the money counts : the tour cant go on with such a
heavy risk without insurance, and insurance wont say ok until their doctors
say it is ok.

This will probably take more that the needed time for recovery.... and I
just cant see the european tour beginning before end of june.

Now, my impressions (this is NOT information, just my imagination...) :
Considering the actual dates, all "warm" shows (Spain, Italy, Greece...) can
be rescheduled late, i.e. september or even october.
"minor" markets (apologies in advance : Belgium which is close to Paris and
Netherlands, Austria wich is close to southern Germany, Czech republic,
Poland, etc.) can be cancelled
German shows can stay where they are, the stadiums are not available before
as there is a football world cup there.
The first Paris show cannot be cancelled as it was the fastest genuine
sellout in Europe, but it can be "packed" with the second Paris show on july
2.
Lyon show, rumoured for june 29 will be cancelled. First Paris show will be
rescheduled to june 30 and will be the european opener.
Sweden/Norway/Denmark/Russia will be rescheduled for mid-august.
August spanish and portuguese shows will be moved to the end of the tour.
UK shows wont move.
That's about it IMHO, and it even gives a more coherent programme for moving
the stages around Europe (specially for Paris which had two shows in the
same stadium with one month between both shows).

But still, my impression is that the chances for a complete cancellation of
the european tour is about 70-30.
70 for full cancellation sadly.
But, again, this is NOT information, just my guesses....

Time will tell....

And those of you who already had non refundable plane tickets for shows
to-be-cancelled this summer, you should still come !
One of the very best times (maybe _the_ best times) I ever had at a glimmer
gathering was in Montreal, for the january 1998 cancelled show, with S'Who,
Marc Berube, Porter, and Gary. The nicest way to discover a new city is
certainly to have a great time with glimmers, and it is even better without
the annoying obligation to spend one full day at a stadium for a Stones show
;-)))

Keep on rockin'...

Thierry.
The Paris GlimmerChef.


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
It's only rock 'n roll, but we like it. Yes we do.
--

Now that is a great post. Thanks for putting it up here, triplelicks.

Thierry seems to be a person of common sense. Without being too pessimistic I find this trustworthy.

yep, same here Thommie. At last a poster that seems to know what he's talking about in regard to medical aspects.

Makes you wonder though. If he's right it's gonna be a weird summer.

I second that commotion! THANKS VERY MUCH for your input triplelicks!

Rolling Stones Tribute

Play Rolling Stones

Still its guesses. Easy to follow the scenario and
find it plausible though.

In the end I believe Keith's strong mental and psycological
consitution wins. There is a medical reality and a mental (Soul-).

Have to wait and see for early June, I guess.
Suppose we could trade our tix into the next scheduled date,
given they would postpore anything more.

I have the mailadress to the hospital for those who want it.

the email address is on the hospital website,
if people feel like emailing the hospital is a good thing to do. maybe it is.
thanks Triplelicks and Thierry. it's reassuring to be reminded that no one is going to take chances rushing Keith's recovery.

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

Keith got some guiars brought to him at the hospital now by his wife and daughters in Auckland, so this is good news. He will be out of the bed soon!

Bjornulf