I read this evening that Iran is not being allowed to buy medical supplies due to sanctions imposed.

Nate

I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

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grzegorz67
I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

Terrifying. Look for a massive explosion in cases.

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grzegorz67
I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

We have had that happen here in the US too. Certain things like toilet paper, hand sanitizer and antiseptic wipes are rare items. I have always had food stocked so it will come in handy now.

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MileHigh
It's not pleasant to think about the levels of psychological stress out there. It will surely be causing a lot of suffering for a lot of people. In most of North America we are not used to that happening on a mass scale. I think the next time I go shopping for food I will wear my mask, gloves, and protective goggles.

That should garner you some applause.

Along the Gulf Coast and up the East Coast, basically the hurricane zone, people are saying they're not sure what to do without a cone of uncertainty or a projected path...

Which I find hilarious.

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GasLightStreet
Along the Gulf Coast and up the East Coast, basically the hurricane zone, people are saying they're not sure what to do without a cone of uncertainty or a projected path...

Which I find hilarious.

Does Alabama know?

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grzegorz67
I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

The early shopping hour for the elderly in the UK isn't only to prevent them from coming into contact with the virus: it's to give them a chance of buying necessities before the daily hoarders clear the shelves. Most supermarkets are now limiting the number of items that you can buy in one visit. Smaller shops are doing better than supermarkets, but the infuriating thing is that there are no real shortages of food: just the difficulty of restocking fast enough to keep up with the panic buyers.

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keefriff99
Singapore is basically a police state with fancy malls. They have a compliant citizenry, which isn't possible in a country like America.

I'm not saying that we couldn't be doing MUCH more in America, but it's not a good comparison.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong and China are all doing extensive testing, and tracing back every positive person, their moving around, then contacting every person they have been near for quarantine procedures and protection of the rest of their population.

I think that is smart and important actions if you want to contain this virus, or any other diseases. To claim some of these countries might have a different political system vs your own preferences is a total side track at a time when thousands of people are infected and now dead, also in USA, UK, Europe and so on.

Bjornulf

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Green Lady

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grzegorz67
I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

The early shopping hour for the elderly in the UK isn't only to prevent them from coming into contact with the virus: it's to give them a chance of buying necessities before the daily hoarders clear the shelves. Most supermarkets are now limiting the number of items that you can buy in one visit. Smaller shops are doing better than supermarkets, but the infuriating thing is that there are no real shortages of food: just the difficulty of restocking fast enough to keep up with the panic buyers.

In theory it’s a good move by the supermarkets. Unfortunately in most cases it isn’t the 1st hour after the shops opened and too many hoarders are getting in before them and clearing the shelves. Emergency services key workers are having a similar problem when they come off their shifts. The very people we need to stay healthy. Most of us in the U.K. have heard/seen the poor nurse from York breaking down in tears because she can’t get enough healthy food to eat.

Seemingly there’s been a spike in sales of freezers too. The hoarders, not content with filling their freezers, are increasing capacity!

New York City now averaging one death per hour from virus:


[nypost.com]

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Nate
I read this evening that Iran is not being allowed to buy medical supplies due to sanctions imposed.

Nate

The UAE (have been under thread by them in the past) aparently have send medical material of different kinds to Iran to help out. Fake news?

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keefriff99

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Chris Fountain
I actually think this pandemic has brought people together.

Heh. You just go on believing that one.

Wait till there's a real shortage of food : spring is coming, the fields are full of fruits and veggies but there might be a lack of workforce to pick them and pack them.

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daspyknows
So far only China, a few neighboring Asian countries, Western Europe and US have gotten attention. One this takes off in Africa it will make ebola look like a diaper rash. Don't forget the Syrian refugee camps, Venezuela, 3rd World mega cities like Manila, Mumbai, Delhi, Calcutta, Dhaka and Lagos. This is going to get really bad really fast.

Yup and about Venezuela, the IMF has denied this country a 7bil loan to fight Covid. Isn't that criminal?

here's the latest statistics from Washington state. the picture is pretty bleak. more tests are being done but not nearly enough yet.

I was in Singapore from 29 Feb to 5 March. I wasnt aware of any medical checks at the Airport in/out), maybe they were happening for some travellers and I wasnt aware. Other than a cancelled fireworks and light show event in Manley Bay life appeard to be going on as normal for tourists and I assumed residents. Certainly not a lockdown situation. However, nobody from China was being allowed into the country (usual visitor rate 10,000 daily). This made the city quieter than expected but as a first time visitor I had no experience to make comparisons.
I have seen on You Tube their Prime Minister address the nation re the virus.Very statesmanlike and it is a pity that neither the US or UK for some time seem to be able to attract people of that calibre to the 'top job '.
Their statistics imply a situation that is far more in control of the pandemic than others and of course things may well have changed since the 5th. They clearly adopted measures from the outset and are continuing to do so and other countries should learn from that. But to describe their Government as 'authoritarian ' and the people 'compliant' is disingenuous to put it mildly. Applied common sense and good planning would be better descriptions.

To those who still claim the coronavirus is nothing to worry about, because we have the flu every year:

Italy had 627 coronavirus deaths in 24 hours reported yesterday. That is one death every two minutes night and day. Next week there will be one coronavirus death every minute in Italy, unless the curve is flattening. Such a rapid increase in critically ill patience is impossible to handle for any health system.

The annual flu (influenza) is spread over months during the winter, for half a year or so. The extreme danger related to the coronavus is the rapid increase in the curve, right now it is increasing by 18% per day in Italy. Some other countries, like USA, Spain, UK, are having even more rapid increase, up to 25%, which means number of deaths double every three - 3 - days.

Bjornulf

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jlowe
I was in Singapore from 29 Feb to 5 March. I wasnt aware of any medical checks at the Airport in/out), maybe they were happening for some travellers and I wasnt aware. Other than a cancelled fireworks and light show event in Manley Bay life appeard to be going on as normal for tourists and I assumed residents. Certainly not a lockdown situation. However, nobody from China was being allowed into the country (usual visitor rate 10,000 daily). This made the city quieter than expected but as a first time visitor I had no experience to make comparisons.
I have seen on You Tube their Prime Minister address the nation re the virus.Very statesmanlike and it is a pity that neither the US or UK for some time seem to be able to attract people of that calibre to the 'top job '.
Their statistics imply a situation that is far more in control of the pandemic than others and of course things may well have changed since the 5th. They clearly adopted measures from the outset and are continuing to do so and other countries should learn from that. But to describe their Government as 'authoritarian ' and the people 'compliant' is disingenuous to put it mildly. Applied common sense and good planning would be better descriptions.

Maybe I was being too glib, but their style of governance and policing absolutely makes a difference in a situation like this. The populace is more conditioned to follow authority. Is that not part of it?

Americans generally have the attitude of "I can do what I want when I want", which is great, but in a situation like this, it can be a deadly mindset.

I had also said weeks ago. It will be very bad. The Robert Koch Institute is also a trustworthy source in Germany. The president of the institute told yesterday. He could not have imagined this extent either. He also said, like other virologists, that this virus is worse than the flu and the risk of infection is higher. We will not have a vaccine before spring 2021. It is all about not making the curve explode and ensuring medical care. Unfortunately, this pandemic will last at least months. These jokes with the corona virus in Facebook stones groups with masks etc made me angry. I've also been a Stones fan for almost 50 years. But health comes first. respect above all to others. But unfortunately there are corona parties here in Germany too. younger people in particular are not considerate. luckily not all. some cough at older people and call "Corona, Corona". My wife is Italian and what is happening in this country cannot be described. I think it's good that almost all good comments are now written in this IORR forum. This is really the best Stones forum. Keep safe all

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Green Lady

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grzegorz67
I’m hearing many stories that pretty much every pub from London to Inverness and all points in between were packed out tonight with said pubs selling off all their drinks at a huge discount knowing that it would otherwise go bad and they’ll now be closed for 3-6 months. Utterly selfish madness.

This and the ridiculous panic buying in supermarkets makes me despair of this country. There are long queues outside supermarkets at the crack of dawn of people with trollies ready to charge in and clear the place out. Selfish tossers.

The early shopping hour for the elderly in the UK isn't only to prevent them from coming into contact with the virus: it's to give them a chance of buying necessities before the daily hoarders clear the shelves. Most supermarkets are now limiting the number of items that you can buy in one visit. Smaller shops are doing better than supermarkets, but the infuriating thing is that there are no real shortages of food: just the difficulty of restocking fast enough to keep up with the panic buyers.

I heard tales that the first hour reserved for the elderly was crowded and chaotic and that there was still not much on the shelves. Others are now questioning the wisdom of including health workers in that same hour because it means that the vulnerable elderly group are mixing with the group most exposed to coronavirus. They should perhaps set aside an hour for the elderly and a different hour for key workers like NHS staff. That said, I wonder if they are asking for proof of age or employment status to prevent abuse of this system.

A few days ago, some of my local shops started allowing only six people in at a time. I have now given up going to supermarkets because their shelves are constantly bare - a shocking and depressing sight. My local Turkish grocery shops, on the other hand, are pretty well stocked with everything (including Turkish brands of toilet roll!) and are the only places you can find fresh produce with no difficulty. So I'm sticking with them.

Elsewhere, the WHO suspicion is that cases in Iran are five times higher than reported. A country already crippled by economic sanctions was never going to be in a position to fight this virus and the situation there sounds absolutely dire. In Italy, latest reports are that the military has been brought in to enforce the lockdown. Everyone has to stay indoors and even public parks are closed.

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bv
I have been watching several news channels lately, like Norwegian TV stations, of course, but also BBC, CNN, Rai (Italian) etc. This week, and especially today, the news are ONLY from our own country. It is like the entire outside world does not exist.

The main channel NRK had their main news 7pm-8pm, all about Norway coronavirus issues and emergency economy packages, except 5 minutes about German border control, the first Norwegian coronacase in Firenze Italy now free of the virus, and another European news entry. The main commercial channel in Norway TV2 did only have Norway Corona cases, nothing at all from other countries.

Rai News24 is mostly coronacases news, but I get sad from it because the situation is so serious there, so I can't watch much.

CNN and BBC are great news channels, they do also have info from other countries, not just USA and UK.

Sweden might be one of the few "open" countries in Europe, they even have the kindergartens open still.

Boris is now talking about closing down something later on in the week may be.

It is interesting to watch the news from other countries, but it seems they are now concentrating mostly on their own domestic coronavirus news.

And we don’t know how many are infected in Sweden. They only test you if youre hospitalized. By now over 200 000. https://www.svd.se/folkhalsomyndigheten-haller-presstraff-q25a

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bv

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keefriff99
Singapore is basically a police state with fancy malls. They have a compliant citizenry, which isn't possible in a country like America.

I'm not saying that we couldn't be doing MUCH more in America, but it's not a good comparison.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong and China are all doing extensive testing, and tracing back every positive person, their moving around, then contacting every person they have been near for quarantine procedures and protection of the rest of their population.

I think that is smart and important actions if you want to contain this virus, or any other diseases. To claim some of these countries might have a different political system vs your own preferences is a total side track at a time when thousands of people are infected and now dead, also in USA, UK, Europe and so on.

No, it's not about preferences, it's about governments getting their citizens to behave in a certain way.

It's very safe to say that citizens in Singapore are probably more used to following government edicts than in America. We all love our freedom here, but there's also a massive conspiratorial community here that thinks any government action is a sign of some coming martial law crackdown. People are being willfully stupid here just to show they're not following the herd.

The extreme steps taken in China couldn't be done in America without a full-blown crisis.

Norway daily life report Saturday March 21:

This is a daily life report about how the coronavirus rules and regulations are in my country Norway. Last Thursday, nine days ago, I was at my physioterapist, it feels like ages ago. He asked me if I wanted to book another appointment, as I have been there two times per week now, following the biking accident I had six months ago, but I said I wanted to stay at home for a while. He fully understood.

Then, the same day, last Thursday March 12, when Norway went into lockdown, we went to the grocery store. It was 11am, but the parking lot was completely jammed. We went on to the other nearby grocery store, and again, full parking lot. I went inside to do our shopping while my wife looked for parking. We arrived home and we knew everything had changed from this date. I am sure my father and mother must have had the same sort of feeling on April 9, 1940, when Norway got occupied by foreign soldiers, if felt surreal, the fear was there, and I knew everything would be different from this day. Then we did a bit more shopping on Friday and Saturday last week, washing hands all the time. Then the fear of the virus coming closer, pushing us into our home for a week.

I have been planning to do our shopping today, Saturday morning at 7am, when our local store opens. As a matematician, I have been calculating the risk, being at the lowest when the store is opening early morning. The virus is said to be living for 6 hours on paper and cardborad, and up to 3 days on plastic and steel. The stores clean many sports every day, and they stock during evenings. I am an early bird, I always do my shopping at 7am. Normally I am the only person in the store at those hours.

I slept just four hours tonight. Having planned the shopping trip all week, I had made a plan of how to shop, where the items were in the store, and I should be able to do all my shopping in 10 minutes. Minimum exposure. I woke up half of the night, not really scared, more like worried about stuff, something might get wrong, and we needed cucumber, forgot to make a note of that, just silly things I never worry about.

I am at the store 7:15am, there were already 10 people there. Everybody have scared eyes. The shop is now having signes on the floor saying "keep one meter distance" (three feet). I follow my planned path through the shop. I wash my shopping cart handle with antiviral fluid, but I am sure it does not make any sense, still it is giving me some sort of comfort. I do only shop items packed in plastic.

We are just ten or so people in the store, but every time I pass by others, I can see the fear in their eyes. Everyone is scared. This is a fatal virus. We all know it. The virus will kill parents, grandparents, many having health issues, and already, all standard procedure surgery in hospitals is canceled all over the country. I work hard on my shopping list. Toilet paper is gone, but I have what I need already. My favorite snack is gone, but that is a luxury problem. Eggs are mostly gone, but I go for the special eggs that for some reason are still there.

Beer sales are closed in Norway from 8pm until 8am. I had plannned to buy a six-pack of beer, but that was not possible at 7am or so. No worries. I would go back in half an hour for that.

Then paying for the grocery. That is the critical place, which has been worrying me all week. I place my items on the conveyor belt, same place which every other customer place their items. The guy at the cash register scan every item, using the same hand he touched every item from the previous customer. The virus may pass on from item to hand to item, and so on. There is another customer right in front of me, even if the signs say keep distance. And another one behind me. I use a plastic bag to protect my fingers from the high-risk keyboard on the credit card pin keyboard, and I keep the printed receipt, also high risk of carrying the virus, as handed me by the person in the store, but I do always keep all receipts.

I carry my stuff to the car, I wash my hands in the store, cold water, no soap in the dispenser, and I wash my hands with virus killer liquid I carry in my pocket. I get home, we wash every item with warm water, and those items not for the fridge will stay in "quarantine" separately and untouched for at least 3-5 days, so that any virus from the shop will die.

I arrive home one hour later, my wife is freaking out because I did not bring my mobile phone, and it took so long. I told her I did not want to bring my mobile into a "dirty" zone outside our house. Half our family are in quarantine already, at their own homes, I am crazy about keeping our house safe and clean of no virus inside.

I have canceled all my paper newspapers coming to the mailbox every day by the newspaper boy, but today I have got all the papers from the store, as I love reading real papers. Some reports say virus is killed if you place the papers in your oven at +85 C. The fire departments say it is dangerous, you may get a fire, do not do it, but I do it anyway, paying close attention to the oven and the papers.

It is 1pm here now, just after noon. I feel I have been on an expedition, but really, all I did was getting some grocery items for the next week. I am already thinking about how the next grocery trip will be, in a week from now. Then I will probably use one of the stores nearby with a self service unit, so that nobody will touch my items. I feel I have done what I can, to protect myself, and others, but it is really surreal, and the scared eyes of those who did the shopping this morning are still in my mind. This is serious. Everybody understand it. I am not scared, but we are all taking this very very seriously.

Bjornulf

I found an extremely interesting article about flu epidemics in Italy in the past few years:

[www.sciencedirect.com]

The article is from November 2019

It says: "Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly."

It says that 68.000 people died in Italy because of flu between 2013-2017. 25.000 people died because of flu in Italy just in the season 2016-17.

Isn't the current situation pretty much what happens annualy in this part of the World?

I mean in our country we have 900 cases and 0 deaths. One starts to think, that it might be because of different level of health care. But that makes no sense. If we were to follow Italy, which our politicians keep on repeating, we would have to have 80 people dead. That amount of people is not even hospitalized. They are at home and they get no medical treatment whatsoever. There are 7 serious cases and the level of medical care will take part in whether they survive or not. But it has pretty much zero impact on the rest of the cases.

So...?

How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-21 15:50 by Happy24.

Reports about crowds of student celebrating "Spring brake" without taking any care about Corona. Stupid!

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Happy24


How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

This kind of talk infuriates me...Cornovirus is much more contagious than the common flu, mutates more rapidly than the common flu, has a much higher death rate than the common flu and it is an ANIMAL virus. It's the future consequences that has the world in a panic.

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dcba

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keefriff99

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Chris Fountain
I actually think this pandemic has brought people together.

Heh. You just go on believing that one.

Wait till there's a real shortage of food : spring is coming, the fields are full of fruits and veggies but there might be a lack of workforce to pick them and pack them.

Spring started March 1st. The growing season has started in the South. A workforce shortage might be in places some might not think of but that seems unlikely... so far.

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FlyoverStones

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bv
It takes approx four - 4 - weeks from lockdown until the number of deaths change, if the lockdown is late, like in Italy.

First lockdown. If the lockdown is 100% like in China, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, then all new tested cases will go to zero within 14 days, or some more time if the area is as large as they were in China, and also for North Italy, a large area.

Then all people who got the virus up to the point of the lockdown, will be sick and in intensive care during the next few weeks.

This is why it does not make sense to look into day-by-day numbers, unless you know all data, all dates, and you are skilled in statistics.

The weekly statistics will be the most accurate way of monitoring how a lockdown is working. I will update my own weekly statistics every Monday, like I did earlier this week.

There is no quick fix for this virus. People who say so are presenting lies, or they do not understand. We will not see any good numbers from Italy, France, Spain, UK, USA until April. The curve will flatten some four weeks after the complete lockdown is in place, if everyone do respect the lockdown.

Yes, and the other advantage of reviewing data weekly is that it cuts down on daily anxiety. We won't see daily shifts in numbers that signal change anyway.

And once again, I owe BV a few beers for bringing sanity to daily life.

Oh really?

That's a shallow way of looking at it, actually - looking at day to day numbers and seeing the death number go up higher than the previous day should be a reminder to some that it is getting worse.


In the US there are people that still think it's a hoax. Which, of course, was supported by a certain "entertainment" channel and a certain person that is constantly wrong - which may not be such a big deal as it has been in the past since so many people know not to believe anything he says.

I know someone that continues to believe that it's no worse than the flu and views it as a flu.

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ThePaleRider

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Happy24


How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

This kind of talk infuriates me...Cornovirus is much more contagious than the common flu, mutates more rapidly than the common flu, has a much higher death rate than the common flu and it is an ANIMAL virus. It's the future consequences that has the world in a panic.

I didn't mean to infuriate anybody.

I posted a scientific article with data and numbers about flu in Italy. Which you deleted from the quote, so plese, if you want to quote me the next time, quote my whole message, not just the part that suits you. It is up to everybody what he/she makes out of the data. If anybody chooses to be infuriated, it is his/her choice.

I post the link to the article again, since that was the crucial part of my post, not the sentence that you took out of context.

[www.sciencedirect.com]

And about "much higher death rate" - there is this useful site that was already posted here before with actual numbers from different countries, which shows that the death rate is very different for different countries:

[www.worldometers.info]

One possible explanation of the very high death rate in Italy is in the article I originally posted. That was the purpose of my post. But feel free to be infuriated...

No other country has been this far into the pandemic and still had the number of cases growing at the rates the U.S. is seeing.



[www.ft.com]