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MisterDDDD

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podiumboy
Parts of the US have chosen Italy. I live in Ohio, and our governor had become pretty famous his overly cautious handling of this. We’ve essentially been on lockdown for over a week now.

Mixed feelings here in Wa state. Governor Inslee has been great.
Way early on social distancing, shutdowns etc., but also way early on identifying that the virus was present and killing people.

Inslee, Newsome and Cuomo have done a great job with this. Good to know the Federal Gov't is not shipping clerks.

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georgie48

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Nate
It’s not surprising that both the U.K. and the U.S.A. seem to be sleepwalking into a disaster when the leader of the U.K. makes a joke saying we’re making a last gasp effort to produce ventilators and the White House referring to the virus as kung flu.

Nate

It wouldn't surprise me if we are all getting sand thrown in our eyes.
It was mentioned before ... the 2017/2018 influenza killed more than 60.000 in the USA alone, and in my country 9400 (the current corona death figure is just under 100). How about other countries? No global (media and political) panic in 2018! I find that very strange, to say the least. To me it more and more starts to look like a big comedy show over the lives of many sick (and deceased) people with possibly very deeply "hidden" underlying motives. Global monitary control or something else still invisible.
Time will tell us ...

Unless something changes a month or two the death toll will blow past the influenza deaths. Look at the graphs, Growing 50% to 100% a day.

California Stay At Home order....lockdown.

This is coming for everyone, if we're lucky.

the Governor of California just ordered the entire State to stay home except to buy food and essential services

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keefriff99

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EddieByword
Hopefully the vast majority will survive this and by this time next year things will be looking up...............I do wonder though, if, apart from finding medical solutions now and for the future, the west will address the root problem which was China's propensity to allow the horrific abuse of animals especially in those 'wet' markets where all this started.
There is not one single animal welfare law in China. They can treat animals however they want and they do. (Boiling and skinning cats and dogs alive etc)

I used to see those places in Hong Kong in 1970 where anybody could just pick a live animal they wanted to eat and it would be slaughtered on the spot. All types of fowl and fish but also cats, dogs, monkeys, snakes etc etc....and I heard that in this particular market they had wolf cubs and of course the infamous bat where, supposedly, the virus came from.

They have no safe hygiene practices. They disgusted me then and still do..............I can't do much as an individual but I will be writing to my MP (Member of Parliament) and would encourage everyone else to do so too (MPs, Senators or whoever) to put pressure on the Chinese government before those barbarians kill us all too.

And that's not to mention the theft of elephant tusks and rhino horns to feed their insane ideas about aesthetics (tusks) and virility (horns).

I'm not comfortable using the word "barbarians", but at a certain point, it becomes more than "cultural differences"...there are outdated and cruel practices, completely bogus and scientifically-illiterate "cures" for illness, etc.

I have no idea how you address things like this with a closed off, authoritarian capitalist government that has become a massive cog in the world's economy.

Look at what happened with the NBA last year. A modest tweet about freedom from a single GM cost the sport half a billion dollars.

1. Don't use it then - I am....... (Just curious - what do you call someone who could skin a dog while it's still alive?) ....Neil Young said they were inhumane ....I'd say, unhuman.... just hellish creatures.

2. Stop buying cheap chinese crap, spend a bit more and get some quality.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 04:16 by EddieByword.

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MKjan

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EddieByword
Hopefully the vast majority will survive this and by this time next year things will be looking up...............I do wonder though, if, apart from finding medical solutions now and for the future, the west will address the root problem which was China's propensity to allow the horrific abuse of animals especially in those 'wet' markets where all this started.
There is not one single animal welfare law in China. They can treat animals however they want and they do. (Boiling and skinning cats and dogs alive etc)

I used to see those places in Hong Kong in 1970 where anybody could just pick a live animal they wanted to eat and it would be slaughtered on the spot. All types of fowl and fish but also cats, dogs, monkeys, snakes etc etc....and I heard that in this particular market they had wolf cubs and of course the infamous bat where, supposedly, the virus came from.

They have no safe hygiene practices. They disgusted me then and still do..............I can't do much as an individual but I will be writing to my MP (Member of Parliament) and would encourage everyone else to do so too (MPs, Senators or whoever) to put pressure on the Chinese government before those barbarians kill us all too.

And that's not to mention the theft of elephant tusks and rhino horns to feed their insane ideas about aesthetics (tusks) and virility (horns).

It's very important that these practices stop, because they need to. Also should mention many Chinese eat the undigested food taken from the intestines of a porcupine. They claim it cures cancer and diabetes. In India, Hindu's are drinking cow urine, which they believe protects them from coronavirus.

...also, 30 blokes died of alcohol poisoning in Iran......cure for...........

I've been raised a vegetarian so I basically agree with your point but still. Trying to identify the initial source is woefully pointless but if we do that still, what infamous bat? I have read we're supposed to blame a type of armadillo called pangolin. It's also just as pointless to lay blame on a specific country and it nearly always leads to people claiming someone released it on purpose. The one thing we can be sure about is we're never going to find out where it came from.

To be honest when I heard today that both New York and New Jersey have a few thousand cases each I felt a tinge of fear.

Personally I don't blame the Chinese for their eating and food processing habits. The concept of "farming" can be applied to anything. Don't eat or harvest animals that are "cute" or that "you disapprove of" makes no sense. Of course you don't want bad practices either.

And to call the virus the "China virus" (or whatever) is not racist. Calling something based on its point of origin is just... normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 05:33 by MileHigh.

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CaptainCorella

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exhpart

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umakmehrd
Here in Canada on the west coast - it was just announced that as of noon tomorrow the border with the US will only be for essential travel - I'm very impressed with our Canadian Gov response to this, if we all simply follow the protocol I think we are gonna be fine. Our head of BC health Dr. Bonnie Henry has been an outstanding calming force to our area.

Stay safe all !!

I'm afraid to tell you this is very complacent. And I felt exactly the same way 3 weeks ago. I'm in London UK. We are 3 weeks behind Italy which as of today has around 4500 dead exceeding China

Um, er.... The population of China is SIXTY times the population of Italy. So, arguably, the milestone Italy passed was really passed long ago and they are far far more worse off.

Deaths per capita of population should be quoted.

Naturally. Exactly my big thing point.
I don't think I had got my head round this thing just watching the reports from a seemingly far off country I'd never been to. But this virus doesn't know there's a border. I think our Canadian friend above is being complacent exactly as I was 3 or 4 weeks ago.

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MileHigh


And to call the virus the "China virus" (or whatever) is not racist. Calling something based on its point of origin is just... normal.

What other viruses are named after their point of origin (don't say Spanish flu, which didn't originate in Spain)?

In any case, playing the blame game doesn't get us very far, wherever it began. Let's celebrate the country where it ends, instead!

Well, I still think that pandemic originating in China is not a coincidence. And I don't blame people but rather their law and government. I found this video from Vox particularly informative - I encourage you to watch it.

of course China is to be blamed - the authorities kept the virus a secret during the crucial initial weeks and locked up the doctor who discovered the virus (and later died of it)

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Nikkei
I've been raised a vegetarian so I basically agree with your point but still. Trying to identify the initial source is woefully pointless but if we do that still, what infamous bat? I have read we're supposed to blame a type of armadillo called pangolin. It's also just as pointless to lay blame on a specific country

Well we still can blame China for not reporting the very 1st cases of Covid which most probably happened November the 17th!
They lied, and they tried to hide their dirt.

In or country (0 deaths so far) we have an almost complete lockdown one is allowed to go to buy food, go to work (most people have home office by now) and we can go to walk in nature. Protection masks are compulsory, eventhough it is impossible to buy one.

The goverment is considering a complete lockdown for two weeks. People wouldn't be able to even buy food, if I understand it correctly.

I am affraid we are heading towards a scenario where many more people will die because of the conequencies of this "war with virus" than the virus would ever be able to kill.

I don't understand the situation at all and I am completely confused. I have no idea how dangerous this virus is. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. All I can do is to read the internet, but I don't believe a single information. Or rather can't distinguish what might be true and what not. Most of it is clearly a political propaganda and if there is a bit of truth somewhere, how am I to find out? I mean yeah, one can choose "reliable" sources, like WHO. But how do I KNOW that WHO is not the main evil behind this all? That is the thing - it sounds mad and illogical, but I don't KNOW anything. All I do is that I read some things and I have to choose whether I believe it or not. And I can imagine the truth may be way more ackward than I can dream of.

Maybe there is this virus, which is really dangerous. Maybe it is all a very well played game how to crush the whole World's economy. Maybe it is just a test for something worse. Maybe it is a plan how to eliminate part of the population. Not by any virus. By an information about the virus. I mean, once people won't be able to buy food, it is just a matter of time they start to rob and kill one another. I have had this feeling for two weeks now and just now, when I read that the government actually thinks about it, I am getting to be finally scared. Not of the virus. Of people.

Coronavirus naming policy

The virus is called "corona" or "novel" (new) corona or coronavirus. Or technically COVID-19 (the disease you get) or SARS-CoV-2 (the actual new virus name).

Please do NOT use other names on the virus, they are all propaganda names made by politicians.

Corona is the name of a mexican beer, also the name of a strawberry type, but these days, if you say corona, everybody do know perfectly well what you say. No need to start political campaigns here.

Thank you!

Bjornulf

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MWasilewski
Well, I still think that pandemic originating in China is not a coincidence. And I don't blame people but rather their law and government. I found this video from Vox particularly informative - I encourage you to watch it.

As this is a Stones' forum and not a Who forum I can sit back and think about "Won't Get Fooled Again"

It's clever. The very first thing you see when you get the page up is a reference, and link, to an Australian Govt department.

That, as you'd expect, puts you into the frame of mind that thinks... It's official, it must be true/real.

Tosh. Sex Pistols Album Title.

That video is not the product of any Australian Govt Department, and the attribution is actually incorrectly expressed.

As The President of The United States often puts it.... "Fake News".

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Happy24, I think it is better to not think too much or postulate unnecessary entities. Occam's razor. There is no plot, there are no hidden agendas by WHO or whatever instances. No games by nasty people or tests by nasty nature. There is just a pandemia, with which the countries all over the world are trying to cope with the best they can. That's the way the world sometimes is. The world and life is and always has been contingent: there are things that we cannot control or foresee to happen, and when the shit happens, like now, all we can do is just to react and act the best we can according to the best knowledge we have at the moment. Was this reaction the best tactics most of the world is doing now - the blockdown and social distancing - well, that's for the future to judge when all is sit and done. No one knows that for sure yet, but it's the best option we do have now. We do know no better.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 11:37 by Doxa.

(I Can´t Get No) Desinfection:

[www.youtube.com]

from Vietnam:

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 11:33 by TooTough.

Norway today donated 5.000.000 € to Serbia to fight against COVID-19 !!!!

Thank you Norway !!!!

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Doxa
Happy24, I think it is better to not think too much or postulate unnecessary entities. Occam's razor. There is no plot, there are no hidden agendas by WHO or whatever instances. No games by nasty people or tests by nasty nature. There is just a pandemia, with which the countries all over the world are trying to cope with the best they can. That's the way the world sometimes is. The world and life is and always has been contingent: there are things that we cannot control or foresee to happen, and when the shit happens, like now, all we can do is just to react and act the best we can according to the best knowledge we have at the moment. Was this reaction the best tactics most of the world is doing now - the blockdown and social distancing - well, that's for the future to judge when all is sit and done. No one knows that for sure yet, but it's the best option we do have now. We do know no better.

- Doxa

Very well said, Doxa. It is just when I go through my thoughts during those last two weeks, I realize that more than several times I thought about some restriction and thought that THAT might actually not happen. And it pretty much always happend the next day. And the very worst scenario I could imagine was that they will not allow people to go out to buy food...and what it would lead to. And just today I read that the government thinks about it...

Plus when I read commets of people on internet, it really gets me down. I come from a post-communist country and when you read discussions, it looks like most people think that the borders should be closed permanently, that communists got it right. Of course, those are hundreds, maybe thousands of people writing such things on the internet. I have no idea what those other millions think - whether mostly the same, or whether they still value freedom. There is this thought always popping into my head nowadays, that I would much rather live freely even with the possibility of dying on some virus (I mean it will happen one day anyway), than to live in a police state, which I am affraid we are headding to. And I have the feeling that people just applaud to it. I know, that is just my opinion, can't speak for anybody else and I absolutely don't want to say I am correct or that my opinion is better than the opinion of those people thinking the opposite. But it is really difficult for me to think that maybe right now we are loosing our personal freedom for the rest of our lifes, or at least good part of it. At least in our coutry our politicians will be more than happy to do that and it looks like they have all the people's support.

I know, I should stop following news on the internet. The thing is, that I have completely avoided any internet news for about 5 or 6 years. And we don't have a TV since 10 years ago. My life got much better... But just 2 weeks ago I started to check the news again because of the virus. And as I am really not used to it, it gets me pretty bad.

Anyway - I didn't know the "Occam's razor," had to google it. So I even learned something :-)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 13:57 by Happy24.

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Nikkei
I've been raised a vegetarian so I basically agree with your point but still. Trying to identify the initial source is woefully pointless but if we do that still, what infamous bat? I have read we're supposed to blame a type of armadillo called pangolin. It's also just as pointless to lay blame on a specific country and it nearly always leads to people claiming someone released it on purpose. The one thing we can be sure about is we're never going to find out where it came from.

Bat or Pangolin, who cares?.....The point is the reason this virus got out is because of cruel, uncontrolled and unhygienic methods of slaughter in these 'wet' markets in China.
I don't agree that that there is 'no value' in identifying the source. An oncologist will always try and identify and locate the 'Primary' in order to take appropriate action in that location and prevent further and renewed spread of the cancer.
The west needs to start objecting to these Chinese (and other places if it goes on there) practices instead of always just having an eye on where the next buck is coming from.
Fat lot of good that has done everyone too, given how the world economy is now tanking. Gain a million bucks here but lose a billion there..............brilliant.

This post is about promoting the hopefully continued good health of people by suggesting best practice action to prevent a re-occurence of this situation, not politics.

NB. Apparently, now, the Chinese government has now permanently banned the sale of wild animals in wet markets..... [en.wikipedia.org]

But, also note form wikipedia, Hygiene; "If sanitation standards are not maintained, wet markets can spread diseases. Because of the openness, newly introduced animals may come in direct contact with sales clerks, butchers, and customers. Insects such as flies have relatively easy access to the food products. Carcasses are sometimes thrown on the floor to be butchered. The avian flu, SARS and COVID-19 outbreaks can be traced to keeping live animals in wet markets, where potential for zoonotic transmission is greatly increased".



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 13:09 by EddieByword.

Well the local hospital around the corner from my home has now stopped testing outside in the tent in the parking lot behind the Emergency room because as I was told they were inundated with a lot of people without any symptoms and the Hospital felt they were wasting the test kits which of course we are woefully unprepared to deal with such a crisis to begin with ! Think about it for a second the wealthiest and most intelligent nation in the world reduced to such a deplorable mess . When in actual reality if we had some measures and policies to ensure public safety and maybe plan ahead from past health crisis that we had and endured who knows were we would be at , and lets not forget the slower than molasses response on the Federal level to even lift a finger and acknowledge that a crisis exists in the first place . Jeez by golly government is supposed to protect it's citizens right ? I know I am being foolish and ignorant . God Help Us Please !

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Happy24

There is this thought always popping into my head nowadays, that I would much rather live freely even with the possibility of dying on some virus (I mean it will happen one day anyway), than to live in a police state, which I am affraid we are headding to.

But I'd rather be a free man in my grave
Than living as a puppet or a slave

Jimmy Cliff

C

A lot of radio stations all over Europe played this morning "You'll never walk alone" at the same time to say thank you to all the very hard working people in the hospitals. Yes: Thank you very much! And lot of respect!!

Singapore is the proof of the pudding.

If you take immediate action, test, test, test, investigate, contain every case, and do take the coronavirus completely seriously from day one, it will go away.

Total cases coronavirus positives = 345
Total deaths from coronavirus = 0
Population of Singapore = 5.6 million

Forbes:

Coronavirus Containment—What We Can Learn From Relative Calm In Singapore And Hong Kong

Widespread testing also took fold in Singapore which was quick to ensure that the city knew who was infected and forced isolation to prevent the virus spread.

Although there are still current restrictions in Hong Kong and Singapore, neither place has had to implement a forced lockdown, and life has largely continued in a sensibly cautious way.

Recovery numbers in Hong Kong and Singapore are on par or even outstripping new daily cases of COVID-19 now. Although it is too early to claim the spread of the virus has been defeated here, it has certainly been contained.

Many in Europe and the U.S. can look to the positivity in Hong Kong and Singapore. The difference, however, was the quick, early and sensible measures taken in these Asian cities right at the start, to ensure that wider lockdowns were not imposed.

Currently, for everyone around the world, the more positive outlook in Hong Kong and Singapore represent paramount hope moving forward.

Bjornulf

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EddieByword

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Nikkei
I've been raised a vegetarian so I basically agree with your point but still. Trying to identify the initial source is woefully pointless but if we do that still, what infamous bat? I have read we're supposed to blame a type of armadillo called pangolin. It's also just as pointless to lay blame on a specific country and it nearly always leads to people claiming someone released it on purpose. The one thing we can be sure about is we're never going to find out where it came from.

Bat or Pangolin, who cares?.....The point is the reason this virus got out is because of cruel, uncontrolled and unhygienic methods of slaughter in these 'wet' markets in China.
I don't agree that that there is 'no value' in identifying the source. An oncologist will always try and identify and locate the 'Primary' in order to take appropriate action in that location and prevent further and renewed spread of the cancer.
The west needs to start objecting to these Chinese (and other places if it goes on there) practices instead of always just having an eye on where the next buck is coming from.
Fat lot of good that has done everyone too, given how the world economy is now tanking. Gain a million bucks here but lose a billion there..............brilliant.

This post is about promoting the hopefully continued good health of people by suggesting best practice action to prevent a re-occurence of this situation, not politics.

The one who is without sin is the one who should cast the first stone

I could draw a long list of similar "unhuman" practices that are well accepted in our civilized western world.

C

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MKjan
In India, Hindu's are drinking cow urine, which they believe protects them from coronavirus.

Also cow dung (cakes): [theprint.in]

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liddas

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EddieByword

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Nikkei
I've been raised a vegetarian so I basically agree with your point but still. Trying to identify the initial source is woefully pointless but if we do that still, what infamous bat? I have read we're supposed to blame a type of armadillo called pangolin. It's also just as pointless to lay blame on a specific country and it nearly always leads to people claiming someone released it on purpose. The one thing we can be sure about is we're never going to find out where it came from.

Bat or Pangolin, who cares?.....The point is the reason this virus got out is because of cruel, uncontrolled and unhygienic methods of slaughter in these 'wet' markets in China.
I don't agree that that there is 'no value' in identifying the source. An oncologist will always try and identify and locate the 'Primary' in order to take appropriate action in that location and prevent further and renewed spread of the cancer.
The west needs to start objecting to these Chinese (and other places if it goes on there) practices instead of always just having an eye on where the next buck is coming from.
Fat lot of good that has done everyone too, given how the world economy is now tanking. Gain a million bucks here but lose a billion there..............brilliant.

This post is about promoting the hopefully continued good health of people by suggesting best practice action to prevent a re-occurence of this situation, not politics.

The one who is without sin is the one who should cast the first stone

I could draw a long list of similar "unhuman" practices that are well accepted in our civilized western world.

C

1.

2. So could I.....also ...and if you're going to degenerate into cliches, "Two wrongs don't make a right".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-20 13:26 by EddieByword.

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bv
Singapore is the proof of the pudding.

If you take immediate action, test, test, test, investigate, contain every case, and do take the coronavirus completely seriously from day one, it will go away.

Total cases coronavirus positives = 345
Total deaths from coronavirus = 0
Population of Singapore = 5.6 million

Forbes:

Coronavirus Containment—What We Can Learn From Relative Calm In Singapore And Hong Kong

Widespread testing also took fold in Singapore which was quick to ensure that the city knew who was infected and forced isolation to prevent the virus spread.

Although there are still current restrictions in Hong Kong and Singapore, neither place has had to implement a forced lockdown, and life has largely continued in a sensibly cautious way.

Recovery numbers in Hong Kong and Singapore are on par or even outstripping new daily cases of COVID-19 now. Although it is too early to claim the spread of the virus has been defeated here, it has certainly been contained.

Many in Europe and the U.S. can look to the positivity in Hong Kong and Singapore. The difference, however, was the quick, early and sensible measures taken in these Asian cities right at the start, to ensure that wider lockdowns were not imposed.

Currently, for everyone around the world, the more positive outlook in Hong Kong and Singapore represent paramount hope moving forward.

We will soon see what happens here in Italy.

Two days and it will be 2 full weeks of lockdown.

Despite what you read on the newspapers / see on TV, people have complied with the restrictions: streets in Milan ARE empty

Of course, even the we adopted the most strict measures and we were the most disciplined people of the world, a total isolation is impossible: large families who live in small apartments is huge buildings are the norm here.

C